Has the consensus on Chinese changed since the NITL tour started?

[AxlRoseCDII]

Any one who’s interested in having arguments about CD not being a true Guns album or are here to say that this is just Guns n’ Aliens can respectfully leave this thread. I’m not interested in making a thread to have the same conversations we always have here.

So here’s an interesting fact: 8/14 songs off of Chinese have been played. This includes some of the albums deeper cuts such as Madagascar, Catcher, Prostitue, TWAT...

Has anyone seen any casual fans change their mind of Chinese? Have any of you changed your mind on CD? Is the general consensus still hated? Do casual people think that the CD songs are new songs altogether? Chinese has gotten a fair shine in the line light this tour. I believe Slash and Duff want to support Axl and encourage him to release more music (with them back) under the GNR name. Discuss.

[SWINGTRADER]

Nope.It is still shit.

[-W.A.R-]

Only 4 better than good songs (Better, There Was A Time, Madagascar, Prostitute)  

[RONIN]

"So why are GN’R even bothering with these tracks?

It’s not to help their record sales: the week the band reunited, they sold a whopping 103 more copies of Chinese Democracy than they did the previous week, and the album has yet to see a week-to-week sales increase of more than 111 copies. Which may sound unimpressive, but is downright embarrassing when you realize the album’s weekly sales routinely fail to break double digits (as of this writing, no single week has seen more than 85 copies of Chinese Democracy sold since July; from September 7 to October 12 of this year, the album has sold, on average, 46 copies every week). And, hey, not every album can be The Black Album, but those numbers are noticeably weak. So it’s not as though fans who ignored Chinese Democracy because Slash wasn’t on it are hearing these songs now and seeking out the record.

What it ultimately seems to come down to, then, is this: Guns N’ Roses are playing these songs because Axl Rose wants to. Maybe because he really loves the material, or maybe just to stroke his ego;"

http://www.metalsucks.net/2017/10/26/why-is-guns-n-roses-playing-so-much-chinese-democracy-material-on-their-reunion-tour/

[RONIN]

I think it's cool to see Duff and Slash play these CD songs live, but they aren't changing them up enough for my liking. I want to see these songs get a massive overhaul but perhaps out of respect for Axl, Duff and Slash are staying very close to the album versions. 

As for CD getting a re-overview, I think undoubtedly people are approaching the album with more interest and curiosity. However, I don't think the album is connecting with mainstream Guns fans. It still seems to be almost a cult album with a very small but devoted following. If anything, I think the Illusion albums are getting much more interest and respect in hindsight from mainstream fans who are seeing these shows. There have been a raft of positive articles written about Illusions in the past year and they're getting really positive retrospective reviews from major media outlets. 

[ludurigan]

1 hour ago, AxlRoseCDII said:

Is the general consensus still hated? Do casual people think that the CD songs are new songs altogether?

its not about hate

- most of casual GNR fans -- the people who are paying hundreds of dollars to watch the Poor and Roses tour -- never actually listened to the axl solo album.

- id guess that at least 50% of the audience must look at each other and go -- what song is that? -- when they play an axl solo song

- the ones among casual GNR fans who actually did listen to the axl solo album probably did it once or twice. and then gave up. because... yeah, we all know why

- some people may not even have made it to the end of the album. because...

- those few who made it to the end of the album probably tried to listen to it two or three more times. Tried. You have to be strong to do that! True GNR fans here! but, a few spins later and then they probably also gave up. because...

you think people hate this album? no, they just DONT CARE. and no matter how much `limelight` these songs got on this nonsense tour, people will likely keep NOT CARING because...

...most of the songs are not that good, or not good at all, or, at least, not good at all when compaired to GNR songs

...Axl`s voice and delivery are basically unrecognizable on these tracks when compaired to his delivery in GNR

...the arrangements are truly awful and grooveless and boring and at times cringe-inducing

...the `spirit` (for the lack of a better word) of the music has absolutely nothing to do with GNR. GNR is a gang of men saying `fuck you` to the word `we wont take your shit!` with some mighty fine love songs in between. Axl solo album has nothing to do with that. It is the album of a broken man, and you can hear it on every song

 

[WhazUp]

1 minute ago, ludurigan said:

its not about hate

- most of casual GNR fans -- the people who are paying hundreds of dollars to watch the Poor and Roses tour -- never actually listened to the axl solo album.

- id guess that at least 50% of the audience must look at each other and go -- what song is that? -- when they play an axl solo song

- the ones among casual GNR fans who actually did listen to the axl solo album probably did it once or twice. and then gave up. because... yeah, we all know why

- some people may not even have made it to the end of the album. because...

- those few who made it to the end of the album probably tried to listen to it two or three more times. Tried. You have to be strong to do that! True GNR fans here! but, a few spins later and then they probably also gave up. because...

you think people hate this album? no, they just DONT CARE. and no matter how much `limelight` these songs got on this nonsense tour, people will likely keep NOT CARING because...

...most of the songs are not that good, or not good at all, or, at least, not good at all when compaired to GNR songs

...Axl`s voice and delivery are basically unrecognizable on these tracks when compaired to his delivery in GNR

...the arrangements are truly awful and grooveless and boring and at times cringe-inducing

...the `spirit` (for the lack of a better word) of the music has absolutely nothing to do with GNR. GNR is a gang of men saying `fuck you` to the word `we wont take your shit!` with some mighty fine love songs in between. Axl solo album has nothing to do with that. It is the album of a broken man, and you can hear it on every song

 

.... so you aren't a fan of Chinese Democracy I take it?

[ludurigan]

1 hour ago, RONIN said:

I think it's cool to see Duff and Slash play these CD songs live, but they aren't changing them up enough for my liking.

same here!

i know it will likely NOT happen but at this point if GNR ever reunites it should be really fun to have them rearranging these tracks completely. that would improve them at least 1800 times and would also expose how horrible the original arrangements are

Edited October 28, 2017 by ludurigan

[ludurigan]

1 hour ago, RONIN said:

"So why are GN’R even bothering with these tracks?

It’s not to help their record sales: the week the band reunited, they sold a whopping 103 more copies of Chinese Democracy than they did the previous week, and the album has yet to see a week-to-week sales increase of more than 111 copies. Which may sound unimpressive, but is downright embarrassing when you realize the album’s weekly sales routinely fail to break double digits (as of this writing, no single week has seen more than 85 copies of Chinese Democracy sold since July; from September 7 to October 12 of this year, the album has sold, on average, 46 copies every week). And, hey, not every album can be The Black Album, but those numbers are noticeably weak. So it’s not as though fans who ignored Chinese Democracy because Slash wasn’t on it are hearing these songs now and seeking out the record.

What it ultimately seems to come down to, then, is this: Guns N’ Roses are playing these songs because Axl Rose wants to. Maybe because he really loves the material, or maybe just to stroke his ego;"

http://www.metalsucks.net/2017/10/26/why-is-guns-n-roses-playing-so-much-chinese-democracy-material-on-their-reunion-tour/

i dont agree with everything the guy wrote but he has some interesting points. here a few more bits from that article -- and the guy says that he likes the axl album

 

Don’t forget: Chinese Democracy did not light the world on fire. Attending these shows, it’s clear that the vast majority of fans either don’t know or don’t care about these songs;

But for the most part, with these songs, Slash is falling into a trap he’s always avoided in the past: playing really fast but not actually getting anywhere. (...) he’s trading structure for showing off. I’d speculate this is his attempt to compete with the flashiness of Buckethead’s Chinese Democracy leads, but that’s pure conjecture

 

[RONIN]

2 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

i dont agree with everything the guy wrote but he has some interesting points. here a few more bits from that article -- and the guy says that he likes the axl album

 

Don’t forget: Chinese Democracy did not light the world on fire. Attending these shows, it’s clear that the vast majority of fans either don’t know or don’t care about these songs;

But for the most part, with these songs, Slash is falling into a trap he’s always avoided in the past: playing really fast but not actually getting anywhere. (...) he’s trading structure for showing off. I’d speculate this is his attempt to compete with the flashiness of Buckethead’s Chinese Democracy leads, but that’s pure conjecture

 

Yep. I'm not really sold on Slash's approach to these Chinese songs. 

[ludurigan]

2 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Yep. I'm not really sold on Slash's approach to these Chinese songs. 

its truly awful when he starts playing a zillion notes per second and hes was doing it in his solo career as well

23 minutes ago, WhazUp said:

.... so you aren't a fan of Chinese Democracy I take it?

Whazup?!

 

[Derick]

I don´t think even Slash and Duff can make Chinese sales increase, it´s not how it works. This album was born sabotaged! Shit promotion, the band just disappeared right after the release, no videos, no interviews, nothing! And without these elements of promotion, there is no sale, simple as that. Do you guys remember that AFD spent 1 year stranded in stores? Is it, were it not for Geffen's effort to promote Jungle on MTV and the other promotion strategies what would AFD be?

This tour is based on the return of Axl and Slash together, people don´t care about new songs, Chinese Democracy, Illusions'/Lies or AFD deep cuts ..They want Axl and Slash playing the hits. But yes, on my last show a friend who was with me asked me if Better was a new song(she liked the song btw!), she also thought Wichita was a GNR song. 

[Padme]

First I wouldn't call Madagascar a "deep cut" That song has been a regular in the set list since 2001. Then it was dropped during the reunion. And now it's back.

As for casual fans, from my personal experience they care about the hits. In my local rock radio, CD songs don't get played. But I don't know about all rock radios around the world. I don't know if CD songs are played in Spotify.

Edited October 28, 2017 by Padme

[mikeman5150]

19 minutes ago, Padme said:

First I wouldn't call Madagascar a "deep cut" That song has been a regular in the set list since 2001. Then it was dropped during the reunion. And now it's back.

As for casual fans, from my personal experience they care about the hits. In my local rock radio, CD songs don't get played. But I don't know about all rock radios around the world. I don't know if CD songs are played in Spotify.

I think anyone who sees a show and digs the CD stuff, probably just listens to it on Spotify. I don't know anyone who buys cd's anymore and it's not like CD is available in every record store. 

[jamillos]

I just wanna say Slash’s guitar work on these tracks played live brings them to a whole new level. I love that and think this might actually change opinion of some people who originally weren’t into the ChD stuff that much.

 

[shotsfired cro]

why would CD sell nw that Slash plays some songs live!?

it was recorded when it was, with the line up that has done it and it sucks big time.

just like the fact they don't play Breakdown, Pretty tied up, Locomotive, Dead Horse, Don't damn me...doesn't mean UYI's suck.

would CD be any better if Slash, Izzy, Matt, Duff played - who knows

[username]

3 hours ago, AxlRoseCDII said:

Any one who’s interested in having arguments about CD not being a true Guns album or are here to say that this is just Guns n’ Aliens can respectfully leave this thread. I’m not interested in making a thread to have the same conversations we always have here.

So here’s an interesting fact: 8/14 songs off of Chinese have been played. This includes some of the albums deeper cuts such as Madagascar, Catcher, Prostitue, TWAT...

Has anyone seen any casual fans change their mind of Chinese? Have any of you changed your mind on CD? Is the general consensus still hated? Do casual people think that the CD songs are new songs altogether? Chinese has gotten a fair shine in the line light this tour. I believe Slash and Duff want to support Axl and encourage him to release more music (with them back) under the GNR name. Discuss.

Mine hasn't. 

Overproduced bloated monstrosity which had massive potential but was ultimately ruined. 
I still maintain that 2000-2002-CD would have been epic based on the demo's of that era.
 

[Carburetta]

I have a feeling Axl is persisting with playing these songs in a last ditch desperate effort to guster up some fanfare with the record which would ultimately increase album sales and improve the albums reputation and his legacy. Basically, flogging a dead horse.

It's also worrying there could be a return in some way to Axl's tyrannical past, I mean it is strange when there are a good number of songs in the back catalogue that would be more logical choices, that all three of them wrote, yet they're playing half of Chinese Democracy instead.

Edited October 28, 2017 by Carburetta

[Carburetta]

That, or Axl is seriously deluded as to how good his songs are compared to AFD/Illusion era.

[Derick]

13 minutes ago, Carburetta said:

I have a feeling Axl is persisting with playing these songs in a last ditch desperate effort to guster up some fanfare with the record which would ultimately increase album sales and improve the albums reputation and his legacy. Basically, flogging a dead horse.

It's also worrying there could be a return in some way to Axl's tyrannical past, I mean it is strange when there are a good number of songs in the back catalogue that would be more logical choices, that all three of them wrote, yet they're playing half of Chinese Democracy instead.

But was Duff and Slash whom choose to rehearsal Chinese songs, wasn’t?

 

at the mark 11min

 

Edited October 28, 2017 by Derick

[Carburetta]

1 minute ago, Derick said:

But was Duff and Slash whom choose to rehearsal Chinese songs, wasn’t?

 

Assuming that is the case, it doesn't really change anything I've said.

[ChristmasFnatic]

I still dont like it. I listened to the album again last week. Nope.

[Derick]

6 minutes ago, Carburetta said:

 

Assuming that is the case, it doesn't really change anything I've said.

Well, here you can say whatever you want .. We can accuse, presume, denigrate .. It's okay, no responsibilities. 

[Carburetta]

30 minutes ago, Derick said:

But was Duff and Slash whom choose to rehearsal Chinese songs, wasn’t?

 

at the mark 11min

 

I'm aware of those comments, I've seen the video, what people say isn't always what they mean, and just because they say it, it doesn't mean that's exactly how things went down.

Slash and Duff learning Chinese Democracy, I mean why? It's not their album, they don't owe Axl anything, Axl doesn't need their "support" (he's a multi millionaire rock star). By all means play a couple of songs here and there if they must, but learn the whole album? 

Them doing this and Axl's reluctance/refusal to add additional or alternate old Guns songs to the set last supports my view that Axl is acting in a self centered manner, à la the old days. I mean, why isn't he budging and offering back the favour to learn again and rehearse all of their old songs, would have been nice and right thing to do no? Rather than just say, "ok thanks guys, now let's play half of them every night".

 

Edited October 28, 2017 by Carburetta

[Derick]

3 minutes ago, Carburetta said:

Axl's reluctance/refusal to add additional or alternate old Guns songs to the set last proves my point that Axl is acting in a self centered manner,

What the hell you’re talking about man? Coma, DTJ, Duff playing New Rose and Attitude and all the old GNR songs that they had not played over two decades...That means nothing?