Has the consensus on Chinese changed since the NITL tour started?

[Derick]

12 minutes ago, Carburetta said:

I'm aware of those comments, I've seen the video, what people say isn't always what they mean, and just because they say it, it doesn't mean that's exactly how things went down.

It’s not because they don’t say what you want to hear that means they are lying.

[Carburetta]

36 minutes ago, Derick said:

What the hell you’re talking about man? Coma, DTJ, Duff playing New Rose and Attitude and all the old GNR songs that they had not played over two decades...That means nothing?

Coma and DTJ is Axl's "compromise". As has been said before, the whole Chinese Democracy album (which Duff and Slash didn't play on) vs. these two songs (which are also Axl's let's not forget) is a pretty off balance trade off. 

[Padme]

32 minutes ago, Derick said:

What the hell you’re talking about man? Coma, DTJ, Duff playing New Rose and Attitude and all the old GNR songs that they had not played over two decades...That means nothing?

During NuGN'R era, they played the same hits/old songs they are playing now. The only exception were 14 Years or Think About You when Izzy was a guest. When was the last time they played Dead Horse, Pretty Tied Up or So Fine? I don't need those songs every single show. Nor I blame Axl because I don't know if Axl is to blame. But I would like to know why they buried many of the UYI songs

[Carburetta]

44 minutes ago, Derick said:

It’s not because they don’t say what you want to hear that means they are lying.

Who said what I wanted to hear? I didn't.

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

1 hour ago, Carburetta said:

I'm aware of those comments, I've seen the video, what people say isn't always what they mean, and just because they say it, it doesn't mean that's exactly how things went down.

Slash and Duff learning Chinese Democracy, I mean why? It's not their album, they don't owe Axl anything, Axl doesn't need their "support" (he's a multi millionaire rock star). By all means play a couple of songs here and there if they must, but learn the whole album? 

Them doing this and Axl's reluctance/refusal to add additional or alternate old Guns songs to the set last supports my view that Axl is acting in a self centered manner, à la the old days. I mean, why isn't he budging and offering back the favour to learn again and rehearse all of their old songs, would have been nice and right thing to do no? Rather than just say, "ok thanks guys, now let's play half of them every night".

 

I think it's as @AxlRoseCDII says, Slash and Duff want to support Axl.  That's the only reason that makes any sense.  

Believe me, I've been complaining a lot about Slash on the latest CD songs - TWAT being horrendous - but hearing what he brought to Prostitute the other night was truly enlightening.  For the first time (Better intro aside), I felt he made a tremendous difference to a CD song.

My theory is that Axl knew what a difference Slash would make, too, and he just wants to hear these CD songs that are so full of meaning for him (all the blood, sweat and tears to make the damn thing) interpreted by Slash, who has long been an inspiration to him and whose replacement he never did find.

Axl knew better than to shove 8 CD songs into the setlist from the get go, so he started off with a couple to test the water.  Slash did great with those, the crowd didn't throw anything at Axl in protest, so as time went on and those CD songs became an 'acceptable part of the setlist', both Axl and Slash probably felt more confident about pushing more CD songs out there.

It hasn't been easy for Slash to get to grips with some of them (I reckon that’s why we haven’t heard TWAT for a few shows now) but it must have been a challenge Slash has been willing to take on.  Something clicked for him the other night and what he brought to Prostitute was incredible (I should mention Duff here - he was awesome).  Clearly, Axl loved it (see head-nodding gif).  I’m now curious if they’ll bring TWAT back out to see if Slash can improve on past performances.

Who knows, having Slash and Duff play some of these CD songs may well provide some form of closure for Axl.

So basically, they’re playing these songs because they want to.  And Axl wants to hear what Slash and Duff bring to them.  I think it’s as simple as that. 
 

[Carburetta]

5 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

I think it's as @AxlRoseCDII says, Slash and Duff want to support Axl.  That's the only reason that makes any sense.  

Believe me, I've been complaining a lot about Slash on the latest CD songs - TWAT being horrendous - but hearing what he brought to Prostitute the other night was truly enlightening.  For the first time (Better intro aside), I felt he made a tremendous difference to a CD song.

My theory is that Axl knew what a difference Slash would make, too, and he just wants to hear these CD songs that are so full of meaning for him (all the blood, sweat and tears to make the damn thing) interpreted by Slash, who has long been an inspiration to him and whose replacement he never did find.

Axl knew better than to shove 8 CD songs into the setlist from the get go, so he started off with a couple to test the water.  Slash did great with those, the crowd didn't throw anything at Axl in protest, so as time went on and those CD songs became an 'acceptable part of the setlist', both Axl and Slash probably felt more confident about pushing more CD songs out there.

It hasn't been easy for Slash to get to grips with some of them (I reckon that’s why we haven’t heard TWAT for a few shows now) but it must have been a challenge Slash has been willing to take on.  Something clicked for him the other night and what he brought to Prostitute was incredible (I should mention Duff here - he was awesome).  Clearly, Axl loved it (see head-nodding gif).  I’m now curious if they’ll bring TWAT back out to see if Slash can improve on past performances.

Who knows, having Slash and Duff play some of these CD songs may well provide some form of closure for Axl.

So basically, they’re playing these songs because they want to.  And Axl wants to hear what Slash and Duff bring to them.  I think it’s as simple as that. 
 

It doesn't make sense to me because they don't owe Axl anything. And as I keep saying, why does Axl need "support"? 

I don't accept either that that they're all playing them because they like them and want to. Want to over songs of theirs like Perfect Crime, Don't Damn me? Not for me.

i guess there's a case for Slash and Duff giving them a try because they're new and different to them, that's it though.

You talk about Axl wanting this and that, this isn't the Axl show, it's Guns N' Roses, Axl's demands should only be met when they are off set against the wishes of the rest of the band (Slash and Duff). 

I'm not trying to argue and I respect your view, I'm just putting mine across.

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

22 minutes ago, Carburetta said:

It doesn't make sense to me because they don't owe Axl anything. And as I keep saying, why does Axl need "support"? 

I don't accept either that that they're all playing them because they like them and want to. Want to over songs of theirs like Perfect Crime, Don't Damn me? Not for me.

i guess there's a case for Slash and Duff giving them a try because they're new and different to them, that's it though.

You talk about Axl wanting this and that, this isn't the Axl show, it's Guns N' Roses, Axl's demands should only be met when they are off set against the wishes of the rest of the band (Slash and Duff). 

I'm not trying to argue and I respect your view, I'm just putting mine across.

That’s fair enough.

The Axl ’support’ is a show of solidarity, I suppose.  A statement of intent, that they’re OK with CD, they’re OK with each other and the past.  Who knows.  

Bear in mind, this reunion tour is about re-forging old bonds so they all owe it to each other to repair what was broken - they can’t do that if they’re all being stubborn about the setlist.  

I have no idea why they don't play more of Illusions, expect that a heck of lot of those songs either require Axl to sing in different voices = vocal gymnastics he isn't capable of anymore, and/or in a tone that I haven't heard him sing at all on this tour.  Not even once.  Pretty Tied Up is an example.  Never, has he managed to sing for even 3 seconds in that tone (it's not all about register).  Honestly?  I don't want him to try.  I don't want my favourite Illusions song butchered.  

We don’t know if Axl demanded anything.  We don’t know what the wishes of the band are, or if they have any.  
It’s fun to speculate, but ultimately, trying to second guess these guys is futile.  GNR hardly ever makes sense! 

[Len Cnut]

To be say its complete shite would be overstatement, its just bang average.  Which in a way is worse than complete shite.  Complete shite can and often does, with the passage of time, become a sort of cult novelty 'i see some kinda value in this' kinda thing.  Or it develops a sort of charm.  Chi Dem is just average.  Its not bad-bad like dreadful (though it has some dreadful moments...as well as some good) the overall thing is...just average.  Couple that with the build up to it and it suffers horribly.  Its all rose and no guns.

Edited October 28, 2017 by Len Cnut

[bigpoop]

Still sucks and it's an insult to the fans to play so much of it. People don't want to hear that shit. Yeah I know some people do but the majority don't.  And either way five fucking songs is ridiculous. 

[Live Like a Suicide]

2 hours ago, Carburetta said:

I'm aware of those comments, I've seen the video, what people say isn't always what they mean, and just because they say it, it doesn't mean that's exactly how things went down.

Slash and Duff learning Chinese Democracy, I mean why? It's not their album, they don't owe Axl anything, Axl doesn't need their "support" (he's a multi millionaire rock star). By all means play a couple of songs here and there if they must, but learn the whole album? 

Them doing this and Axl's reluctance/refusal to add additional or alternate old Guns songs to the set last supports my view that Axl is acting in a self centered manner, à la the old days. I mean, why isn't he budging and offering back the favour to learn again and rehearse all of their old songs, would have been nice and right thing to do no? Rather than just say, "ok thanks guys, now let's play half of them every night".

 

Axl said he added Coma into the set to make Slash happy. Besides, we also have DTJ, UTLH, Yesterdays, etc. Axl most certainly has been willing to perform on some older songs.

[Kittiara]

When CD was released, I only liked two of the songs - This I Love and Madagascar. The other songs I simply couldn't connect with. With CD songs being played on this tour, I still like those two tracks. I'm probably in the minority, though, in that I prefer the original guitar solo on TIL to Slash's solos. Still don't like the title track. Puts a bit of a downer on the opening of the set but it might be best to get it over and done with. I find Better to be a pretty irritating song, but I have to admit it's somewhat catchy and when Axl got all fierce with it it did sound better. The only song that's grown on me is Sorry. I can add that to the CD songs I like now. So, on my end, there's a slight increase in appreciation, I suppose.

One of my friends is a brand-new Guns fan. She blames me. As she's getting to know the material, it's AfD that's really drawing her in. Some of the Illusions. CD doesn't even register. Of the other people I know who like GN'R, it's all about AfD and the Illusions as well. For some reason, CD doesn't seem to strike that special note...

Edited October 28, 2017 by Kittiara

[Live Like a Suicide]

15 minutes ago, Kittiara said:

When CD was released, I only liked two of the songs - This I Love and Madagascar. The other songs I simply couldn't connect with. With CD songs being played on this tour, I still like those two tracks. I'm probably in the minority, though, in that I prefer the original guitar solo on TIL to Slash's solos. Still don't like the title track. Puts a bit of a downer on the opening of the set but it might be best to get it over and done with. I find Better to be a pretty irritating song, but I have to admit it's somewhat catchy and when Axl got all fierce with it it did sound better. The only song that's grown on me is Sorry. I can add that to the CD songs I like now. So, on my end, there's a slight increase in appreciation, I suppose.

One of my friends is a brand-new Guns fan. She blames me. As she's getting to know the material, it's AfD that's really drawing her in. Some of the Illusions. CD doesn't even register. Of the other people I know who like GN'R, it's all about AfD and the Illusions as well. For some reason, CD doesn't seem to strike that special note...

Interestingly, when i went to a concert earlier in the year, it was This I Love which was actually drawing discussions as people were leaving. Obviously, most people attending either didn't know the song or had only heard it once or twice, but i thought it was pretty cool that people were open to it and interested in some of the material.

[default_]

Ive always liked most of it but I dont think Ill ever see it as a GNR album. Its cool that theyre workin to make it as legit as possible, to make it their own, but I dont buy it. ld be more into it had they played at least one Snakepit song in counterpart.

As for the casuals, Im part of the hard rock scene here in Sao Paulo and after the shows people seems to be into stuff like Catcher, SoD and This I Love, but not the "crazy industrial stuff". 

Edited October 28, 2017 by default_

[action]

before the tour, i thought CD was a disappointment.

i don't know how they managed it, but after the tour i hate it even more

[DieselDaisy]

I liked the way Slash sleazed up the Better (bridge) riff. I hate the 'mechanical' Robin Fincky numetal sound on that song but Slash - on the clip I watched - bluesed it up with his tone and customary string bends and slides.

[action]

1 hour ago, Len Cnut said:

To be say its complete shite would be overstatement, its just bang average.  Which in a way is worse than complete shite.  Complete shite can and often does, with the passage of time, become a sort of cult novelty 'i see some kinda value in this' kinda thing.  Or it develops a sort of charm.  Chi Dem is just average.  Its not bad-bad like dreadful (though it has some dreadful moments...as well as some good) the overall thing is...just average.  Couple that with the build up to it and it suffers horribly.  Its all rose and no guns.

it could have been saved had it more swearing, but Axl said no

[Nikki_Sixx]

There's only 3 CD songs that have been regularly played by Axl's current solo band : 'Chinese Democracy', 'Better' and 'This I Love'.

Everything else has been sporadically played ('Sorry' x26) or VERY RARELY played ('Madagascar' x9, 'Catcher' x8, 'There Was A Time' x6, 'Prostitute' x2).  That's out of 110+ shows so far.

You are delusional if you think those numbers are gonna have ANY effect on the sales performance of CD the album.

Axl is delusional if he thinks this will add ANY legitimacy to his solo album or solo band.

Most of the general public doesn't know CD, doesn't care about CD, and never will ... 

... even if they play ALL of CD on tour for the next 500 years.

[Gackt]

They should play all of Chinese Democracy in every set, the world needs If The World, Shackler's & I.R.S. 

[Sosso]

13 minutes ago, Gackt said:

They should play all of Chinese Democracy in every set, the world needs If The World, Shackler's & I.R.S. 

I wonder if Slash finally appreciates Bucketheads immense talent instead of talking bad things about him.

Edited October 28, 2017 by Sosso

[soon]

When NITL lineup plays CD tracks it just makes me sad that 2002 went the way it did.  Im not to keen on Slash's takes, minus Sorry and Prostitute. That Maddy riff really annoys me.  IRL Im not aware of any change in consensus, but on here we do have a few vocal anti-CD'ers slowly thawing to some aspects of CD.  

 

[warrocks]

I actually listened the whole album yesterday and I enjoyed it so much than years ago 😁🎧👏🏻🎉

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

22 minutes ago, Sosso said:

I wonder if Slash finally appreciates Bucketheads immense talent instead of talking bad things about him.

To be fair, it can't be easy for Slash to put his own stamp on these songs; they weren't written with him in mind, they're not in his personal style and he has no emotional connection to them (I'm guessing), which is why I reckon if he didn't want to tackle them, he wouldn't.  He's not Axl's yes man - he's proven that! LOL

 

3 minutes ago, soon said:

When NITL lineup plays CD tracks it just makes me sad that 2002 went the way it did.  Im not to keen on Slash's takes, minus Sorry and Prostitute. That Maddy riff really annoys me.  IRL Im not aware of any change in consensus, but on here we do have a few vocal anti-CD'ers slowly thawing to some aspects of CD.  

 

 He doesn't have much to do in Mads does he?  But did you see the Cleveland performance of it?  He was jumping off the box and doing his hopping/kicking one leg thing and really looked like he was getting into it.   I was like, really Slash, you're actually enjoying this? OK then. LOL

[soon]

3 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

 He doesn't have much to do in Mads does he?  But did you see the Cleveland performance of it?  He was jumping off the box and doing his hopping/kicking one leg thing and really looked like he was getting into it.   I was like, really Slash, you're actually enjoying this? OK then. LOL

haha, I dont think I have seen Clevland yet, but have noticed him seeming pumped up after the quotes section, till the end before.  Gonna have to check that out now!

He doesnt do much but he does add this chunky riff, sort of a start and stop thing to some sections of the descending chord pattern.  Sounds like a AC/DC b side kinda rock riff to me.  Most people seem to enjoy it, though.

around 1:05 it starts

 

 

[HOOSIER GUNZ]

I'd like to hear the band play irs. Seems fitting.

I'd like to hear Slash play the Better (Robin) solo or just let Richard nail it.

 

[Voodoochild]

As an actual fan of the guitar work in CD, I don't really like Slash's approach to most of the new songs. Madagascar is just lazy. He seems to be only interested in doing the solos - if for some reason Rob Fortus takes it, Slash just plays whatever basic power chords the song demands. And I just wish Slash could dedicate some effort to do TIL's solo justice. 

About the interest in CD: casual fans still don't care. But I guess if some teens get curious about the band, they will eventually try CD with less prejudice than when it was released. The thing is: this won't affect CD sales at all, nobody buys albums anymore.