The Religion/Spirituality Thread

[DieselDaisy]

16 minutes ago, OmarBradley said:

My comment on fantasticality was restricted to Buddhism. And I said less fantastical, not lacking any fantastical elements. Semantics are important because I was careful to phrase it knowing I don't have enough knowledge about these religions to make wholly definitive statements on them. But I've seen/read enough to get a feel.

I'm not willing to make a judgement on whether or not being reincarnated as a gnat is more or less fantastical than a single omnipotent god, along with his son and the miracles enacted during his son's ministry. I'll leave that judgement to others.  

Edited November 11, 2018 by DieselDaisy

[HOOSIER GUNZ]

"Tool is so good even Jesus decided to learn to play their songs on guitar"

Right in two is a line from the Bible: 1 Kings 3 16-28.

following this discussion I could not help but think of this

 

[Dazey]

18 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

To summarize, the fallen Angels have been deceiving man since the beginning. They are the source of all of these pagan religions. To put it bluntly, they were demonic. Which it doesnt matter if its the Greeks, Roman's or the Egyptians, they were all following teachings of fallen Angels pretending to be "gods" in order to lead humanity away from the TRUE God. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Dazey

[Iron MikeyJ]

31 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Buddhism which believes in cyclical reincarnation, and Hinduism, possessing a Shiva and a Vishnu as deities? 

Broadly however I agree. Eastern religions are less dogmatic and militant, more inquisitive, than the three monotheistic religions of the Mediterranean world. There are various historical explanations for this difference between east and west.

''Peer reviewed'' haha. 

I was going to respond to this but DD beat me to it. Vishnu (who Buddha believed he was a reincarnated version of) was often depicted with serpents. As a Christian that is very revealing unto itself. Now I'm not saying that Buddism and Hinduism dont contain some "truths," quite the opposite really. But again I would quote from Enoch when discussing their "truths." 

 

@Dazey 👍

[OmarBradley]

7 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

@OmarBradley,

History and science has stated that they were "mythology." I dont know for certain what the church's stance on anchient Greeks religion is specifically. But what I do know is all of those religions fall under the spectrum of paganism. Which the church DOES have teaching on that. All one would have to do is spend some time reading the bible and you will come across LOTS of stories regarding Paganism. 

This next statements are my personal understanding (not neccesarily church teaching), but I always look for church teaching in order to make sure I am not falling outside of the boundaries of the church. Having said that, the book of Enoch explains all of this with extreme clarity. To summarize, the fallen Angels have been deceiving man since the beginning. They are the source of all of these pagan religions. To put it bluntly, they were demonic. Which it doesnt matter if its the Greeks, Roman's or the Egyptians, they were all following teachings of fallen Angels pretending to be "gods" in order to lead humanity away from the TRUE God. 

I know that may sound like a bit of a stretch to many of you, but if you do a quick Google search you will find the CURRENT Church of Satan worships the Egyptian god Set. Crowley, Hitler, and MANY more modern figures all worshipped these Egyptian "gods" to some form or another. Honestly, it's in Freemasonry, Bohemian Grove, etc. There are reasons why the term "mythology" was added to these pagan religions. The devils greatest trick my friend...

Gotcha. So demons led pre-Christian societies to "paganism" - a term created by Christians for the sole purpose of criticizing non-Christians and making Christianity seem unique and superior to other religions. What a convenient story your bible tells.  

The adoption of paganus by the Latin Christians as an all-embracing, pejorative term for polytheists represents an unforeseen and singularly long-lasting victory, within a religious group, of a word of Latin slang originally devoid of religious meaning. The evolution occurred only in the Latin west, and in connection with the Latin church. Elsewhere, Hellene or gentile (ethnikos) remained the word for pagan; and paganos continued as a purely secular term, with overtones of the inferior and the commonplace. Src

[Iron MikeyJ]

1 minute ago, OmarBradley said:

Gotcha. So demons led pre-Christian societies to "paganism" - a term created by Christians for the sole purpose of criticizing non-Christians and making Christianity seem unique and superior to other religions. What a convenient story your bible tells.  

 

 

It's just a word. That doesnt change the MEANING behind the word. 

[Iron MikeyJ]

Most people dont realize but Buddism is to Hinduism what Christianity is to Judaism. Just like Judaism and Christanity, not all Hindus accept the teachings of Buddha. 

So by extension, Chinese religions (maybe not all of them, but many that I have researched) can also be traced back to these same roots. 

Honestly it seems like most religions either trace their origins back to Judaism on one side or Hinduism on the other.

[EvanG]

2 hours ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

@Oldest Goat

@EvanG

I would be HAPPY to answer any questions about Christianity or Catholicism more specifically that you might have. I will be completely honest with you, in regards to everything, at least from my perspective or from my understanding anyways.

I was raised Catholic (although in my neck of the woods that meant not talking about it and only going to church on Christmas) but I don't think there is a lot you can tell me that I don't already know. I don't even consider myself an atheist, I think there is a lot more out there than meets the eye, but I have no idea what it is. But I don't believe in religions and following fictional books that were written many, many years ago. Think for yourself, don't follow others. If there is some kind of 'higher power' out there, I'm sure it wouldn't care about the rules or traditions that you can find in every religion. It's rather silly to think that way. At least that's how I see it.

That being said, I have nothing against religious people... if you lead a good life and find comfort in whichever religion you follow, then at the end of the day that's really all that matters, even if it turns out not to be true. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by EvanG

[Iron MikeyJ]

Just now, Oldest Goat said:

@Iron MikeyJ 

1. How do you justify unbaptized babies burning forever in hell?

2. You admit the Vatican isn't necessary for Catholicism and that they've been corrupted with evil. Since this corruption is proven to be systemic throughout the hierarchy itself(not just random rogue priests) - Can you see why I think Catholics need to evolve by abolishing them, instead of continuing to turn away from it which reduces your faith in Jesus to serving as a shield/distraction for these evil doers?

Any child that died before the age of reason (7 or 8 or so), is essentially sinless. So I'm not sure that they would be "sent to hell." Some Catholics used to believe in limbo, and the thought that's where unbaptised babies went. But it was NEVER a doctrine, much less a Dogma. The church has put into more into the theory category, and us such most Catholics wont even talk about limbo anymore. As for your question, all things are possible for God. So I tend to think that us Catholics error on the side of caution when it comes to infant baptism, better to be safe than sorry. I know for me personally, getting my son baptized was a life changing event for my entire family. So I wont dent the power of that sacrament. 

As for the Vatican, I didnt say its unnecessary overall. It serves a real purpose for the Church as whole (like what I said earlier). It's just not neccessary for Catholic spiritual life. I wouldn't want to abolish the Vatican, because we need that final say. It's what helps keep us United (compared to 30,000 protestant denominations). Having said that, bad popes have come and gone and so have great popes. But again, I dont really like spending much time contemplating the Varican. I find other things FAR more spiritually beneficial. 

[Dazey]

3 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

Any child that died before the age of consent (7 or 8 or so), is essentially sinless. 

But 9 and 10 year olds can go fuck themselves yeah?  

Edited November 11, 2018 by Dazey

[Iron MikeyJ]

2 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I was raised Catholic (although in my neck of the woods that meant not talking about it and only going to church on Christmas) but I don't think there is a lot you can tell me that I don't already know. I don't even consider myself an atheist, I think there is a lot more out there than meets the eye, but I have no idea what it is. But I don't believe in religions and following fictional books that were written many, many years ago. Think for yourself, don't follow others. If there is some kind of 'higher power' out there, I'm sure it wouldn't care about the rules or traditions that you can find in every religion. It's rather silly to think that way. At least that's how I see it.

That being said, I have nothing against religious people... if you lead a good life and find comfort in whatever religion you follow, then at the end of the day that's really all that matters, even if it turns out not to be true. 

I guess it sorta boils down to you either believe that Jesus was the son of God or you dont. If you do, then he laid out the what to do and what not to do pretty clearly. All the Catholic "rules" are based in scripture. Which ones do you have a problem with? 

Just now, Dazey said:

But 9 and 10 year olds can go fuck themselves yeah?  

Hence the "or so" part. Funny though 👍

[EvanG]

4 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

I guess it sorta boils down to you either believe that Jesus was the son of God or you dont. If you do, then he laid out the what to do and what not to do pretty clearly. All the Catholic "rules" are based in scripture. Which ones do you have a problem with? 

The one about loving my neighbour, I mean... that guy is a real dick.

[Iron MikeyJ]

17 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

@Iron MikeyJ 

3. Can good people who don't follow Jesus still be considered good and can they go to heaven? 

I missed this one, so here goes. 

Jesus said "The only way through the Father is through the Son." Kinda answers the question. 

Having said that, ALL things are possible through God. I dont know if I would take that gamble myself though.

[Iron MikeyJ]

15 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

So people aren't born into sin then?

Do you think Jesus would approve of the Vatican and if he didn't would you agree to abolish them?

 No they are, original sin. Which that's what baptism washes away (which I assume you knew that). But it's our OWN actions that send us to hell. But being presented with God (through the bible, preaching, etc) is how we either choose to reject or embrace God. Which a rejection he takes pretty seriously. If however, you lived in a little hut in the middle of an island in the Pacific, and you were NEVER exposed to Christianity, I dont think God would send you to hell. As long as you were a good person. But if you lived on an isolated island, you would probably do all right for the most part. But this is just my thoughts. I think you can apply the same thought to children though. 

I think Jesus probably WOULD have some choice words for certain priests, yes. As for the Vatican specifically, it depends on what they knew or did or failed to do. Would he abolish it? Yes because when he comes again, he is going to change EVERYTHING not just the Vatican. Which I know I dodged your question there, so I'll answer it more in line with what you are asking. 

The Vatican as a whole? No I dont think so. Would he get rid of corrupt Pope?yes. Would he correct ANYTHING he disagreed with? Yes. But one thing to consider is Peter was the first Pope, and Peter denied Christ 3 times and couldn't stay awake in the Garden of Gitsesimee (sp). Yet Christ STILL said "You are Peter and upon this rock I shall build my church." So what I'm saying here is Jesus knows the failer of men. We are ALL sinners. Perhaps the Pope is still the right man for the job, it's just the rest of us are so sick? Which I say that assuming Francis is true. If he is false, than I would want a new Pope. But he deserves the benefit of the doubt imo. 

12 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Do you personally require someone be a follower of Jesus for you to be able to consider them good?

No. People are genuinely good by nature. Sin is what turns us.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Iron MikeyJ

[Sosso]

22 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

Hence the "or so" part. Funny though 👍

It's not as funny as you might think when you live in Saudi-Arabia. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Sosso

[Iron MikeyJ]

23 minutes ago, EvanG said:

The one about loving my neighbour, I mean... that guy is a real dick.

Sometimes the most loving thing we can do for someone is to pray for them.

[EvanG]

15 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

Sometimes the most loving thing we can do for someone is to pray for them.

What about celibacy? Do you really think god cares about pastors from the Catholic church abstaining from sexual relationships?

My mom, who isn't even religious, never served meat on Good Friday, merely out of tradition, do Catholics really believe god cares about not eating meat on Good Friday?

How about the Ramadan... do Muslims really believe that their god cares about having a weird eating schedule one month out of the year?

Do the Jews really believe that their god doesn't allow them to eat pig?

This is crazy. I mean, there's nothing wrong with doing all this, but it has nothing to do with god, if there is one, this is what people made up and it doesn't even make sense.

Edited November 11, 2018 by EvanG

[Lio]

3 minutes ago, EvanG said:

What about celibacy? Do you really think god cares about pastors from the Catholic church abstaining from sexual relationships?

My mom, who isn't even religious, never served meat on Good Friday, merely out of tradition, do Catholics really believe god cares about not eating meat on Good Friday?

How about the Ramadan... do Muslims really believe that their god cares about having a weird eating schedule one month out of the year?

Do the Jews really believe that their god doesn't allow them to eat pig?

This is crazy. I mean, there's nothing with doing all this, but it has nothing to do with god, if there is one, this is what people made up and it doesn't even make sense.

The reason for celibacy is people who are in a relationship can't dedicate their entire lives to God and to their parish/community. When you're a priest, you're supposed to dedicate your entire life to God and his herd.

BTW, not advocating celibacy, merely explaining the reasoning behind it.

[Dazey]

17 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

 No they are, original sin. Which that's what baptism washes away (which I assume you knew that).

No they're not. What a load of complete and utter shit! My little girl is 4 , she's sure as fuck not baptised and she doesn't need cleansing of any sins because she's 4 a there's no such thing as sins. You ask why people take time out trying to debunk this bullshit and with statements like the above you answer your own question. It's fucking sickening quite frankly! 

[Iron MikeyJ]

24 minutes ago, EvanG said:

What about celibacy? Do you really think god cares about pastors from the Catholic church abstaining from sexual relationships?

My mom, who isn't even religious, never served meat on Good Friday, merely out of tradition, do Catholics really believe god cares about not eating meat on Good Friday?

How about the Ramadan... do Muslims really believe that their god cares about having a weird eating schedule one month out of the year?

Do the Jews really believe that their god doesn't allow them to eat pig?

This is crazy. I mean, there's nothing with doing all this, but it has nothing to do with god, if there is one, this is what people made up and it doesn't even make sense.

As for celibacy goes... Jesus was MARRIED to the church, hence why he referred himself as the "bridegroom" at times. 

St. Paul ALSO discussed this in his letter to the Corinthians

"The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided. And the unmarried woman or girl is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit; but the married woman is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please her husband."

Basically saying, if you are unmarried you have MORE time to dedicate to the Lord, because you dont have to worry about kids and your wife. Which any single person should understand just how much more free time than us folks with families. 

Having said all of that, it's not a doctrine or dogma, it does fall into the category of tradition. So the church COULD change this if they chose. But because of the verse I just quoted, I DOUBT it. 

As for fasting, the bible speaks about fasting a lot. Too many verses to quote. The church implemented certain "forced" fasting, if you will. Which as a way to HELP (spiritually) the followers. Having said that, it is also not required, which most people dont realize that. The church has NEVER "No meat on Fridays during lent." What the church DOES say is fasting is an important part of our spiritual life, and it's important to practice it. So if you CAN choose to do something else instead of the "no meat" thing. Like pray the rosary every Friday, spend an hour in prayer, do some sort of charitable work, etc. You COULD do something like that instead, and have your meat. Most Catholics just do the "no meat" thing. It is a tradition in a sense, but not neccesarily how we think it is. 

Same goes for Lent as a whole. Jesus fasted for 40 days in the desert, hence why we do 40 days. But if you can only do 20, do 20, or 10 or whatever. It's better to do SOME than none. Fasting is an EXTREMLY rewarding spiritual activity if we do it right. Dont view it as a negative, dont be sad. Be grateful, you are honoring God. 

As for the meat, St. Paul spoke of that as well. Jesus did away with that for Christians essentially. Jews still follow the Mosaic law, and yes it's in there. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Iron MikeyJ

[Dazey]

This was my daughter at her 4th birthday party earlier today.

She's going to burn in hell apparently.  

[Iron MikeyJ]

5 minutes ago, Dazey said:

This was my daughter at her 4th birthday party earlier today.

She's going to burn in hell apparently.  

Nobody said that Dazey. She looks beautiful. Happy bday to her.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Iron MikeyJ

[EvanG]

18 minutes ago, Lio said:

The reason for celibacy is people who are in a relationship can't dedicate their entire lives to God and to their parish/community. When you're a priest, you're supposed to dedicate your entire life to God and his herd.

BTW, not advocating celibacy, merely explaining the reasoning behind it.

 

3 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

As for celibacy goes... Jesus was MARRIED to the church, hence why he referred himself as the "bridegroom" at times. 

St. Paul ALSO discussed this in his letter to the Corinthians

"The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided. And the unmarried woman or girl is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit; but the married woman is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please her husband."

Basically saying, if you are unmarried you have MORE time to dedicate to the Lord, because you dont have to worry about kids and your wife. Which any single person should understand just how much more free time than is folks with families. 

Having said all of that, it's not a doctrine or dogma, it does fall into the category of tradition. So the church COULD change this if they chose. But because of the verse I just quoted, I DOUBT it. 

As for fasting, the bible speaks about fasting a lot. Too many verses to quote. The church implemented certain "forced" fasting, if you will. Which as a way to HELP (spiritually) the followers. Having said that, it is also not required, which most people dont realize that. The church has NEVER "No meat on Fridays during lent." What the church DOES say is fasting is an important part of our spiritual life, and it's important to practice it. So if you CAN choose to do something else instead of the "no meat" thing. Like pray the rosary every Friday, spend an hour in prayer, do some sort of charitable work, etc. You COULD do something like that instead, and have your meat. Most Catholics just do the "no meat" thing. It is a tradition in a sense, but not neccesarily how we think it is. 

Same goes for Lent as a whole. Jesus fasted for 40 days in the desert, hence why we do 40 days. But if you can only do 20, do 20, or 10 or whatever. It's better to do SOME than none. Fasting is an EXTREMLY rewarding spiritual activity if we do it right. Dont view it as a negative, dont be sad. Be grateful, you are honoring God. 

As for the meat, St. Paul spoke of that as well. Jesus did away with that for Christians essentially. Jews still follow the Mosaic law, and yes it's in there. 

I do appreciate you taking the time to type all of that. I know that there are reasons for it, but all I'm trying to say is that I don't think god (if there is a god out there somewhere) cares about any of that. But like I said, there's nothing wrong with it either, so if it makes you feel good... god bless you, I guess. 

[Iron MikeyJ]

2 minutes ago, EvanG said:

 

I do appreciate you taking the time to type all of that. I know that there are reasons for it, but all I'm trying to say is that I don't think god (if there is a god out there somewhere) cares about any of that. But like I said, there's nothing wrong with it either, so if it makes you feel good... god bless you, I guess. 

That's why I said it kinds boils down to whether you believe Jesus was the Son of God or not. If you dont, than I see your point. But if you do, you should probably do what Jesus said. 

God bless you as well 👍

[DieselDaisy]

The usual suspects are prowling around Mikey haha