The Religion/Spirituality Thread

[Len Cnut]

9 minutes ago, soon said:

Thats not the Chrsitian world view. You will always be at a loss if you apply your understanding, overlaid on Christianity.

But for the sake of gameplay. MLK is a better person than you!

Soulie has never cheated on his wife!  I know, I have been watching them both for years now.

 

9 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Again, there is a difference between being intelligent and being knowledgable. As I said, people back then was just as intelligent as us, but they didn't know as much. 

I would've thought that a society that had all the greek thinkers in place already wouldn't look twice at something like Christianity.

[SoulMonster]

Just now, soon said:

Thats not the Chrsitian world view. You will always be at a loss if you apply your understanding, overlaid on Christianity

What? We are talking about normal morality, being good, generous, helping others, giving to charities, and all these metrics that are applied when studying morality. Are you saying that these metrics doesn't work on christians and hence when no difference is found, it doesn't mean christians aren't better than the rest of us. That is hilarious 

[Len Cnut]

9 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Officially you're not allowed to chew on it because then you're chewing on Jesus. I've always had trouble swallowing it... once it got stuck down my throat and I started to panic. Good excuse to bring a beer to chuch.

Can you not bang out some communion wine on top to help his body down?   I can see you now, shaking and choking and reaching for the wine while Father O Malley goes 'the force is strong with this one' (whys your priest suddenly Irish?  I dunno).

[soon]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

What? We are talking about normal morality, being good, generous, helping others, giving to charities, and all these metrics that are applied when studying morality. Are you saying that these metrics doesn't work on christians and hence when no difference is found, it doesn't mean christians aren't better than the rest of us. That is hilarious 

I was speaking to your "Better than" measurement. That makes no sense to a people who see the finger prints of God on all peoples. 

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, Len Cnut said:

I would've thought that a society that had all the greek thinkers in place already wouldn't look twice at something like Christianity.

Oh, there was atheists back then, too. But intelligence only takes you that far when you live in a world where the supernatural is taken for granted. Where there are no alternatives. Where belief offer so much. Besides, every Greek wasn't a Socrates. 

[EvanG]

1 minute ago, Len Cnut said:

Can you not bang out some communion wine on top to help his body down?   I can see you now, shaking and choking and reaching for the wine while Father O Malley goes 'the force is strong with this one' (whys your priest suddenly Irish?  I dunno).

That's a good point though... the pastor/priest always drinks some wine while he's preparing the ceremony, but I've never seen him offer his sheep some.

Catholic people, why is that?

[soon]

I make very good, soft, communion bread. Otherwise we use super fluffy wonder bread (enriched with vitamins!). Either is worth converting for! Mine even has rosemary!

[SoulMonster]

7 minutes ago, soon said:

I was speaking to your "Better than" measurement. That makes no sense to a people who see the finger prints of God on all peoples. 

So you have no problems accepting that the christian faith doesn't manifest itself in people who through normal metrics are better than un-christians, despite its alleged focus on good behavior and having Jesus as a role model? 

Edited December 11, 2018 by SoulMonster

[Len Cnut]

9 minutes ago, EvanG said:

That's a good point though... the pastor/priest always drinks some wine while he's preparing the ceremony, but I've never seen him offer his sheep some.

Catholic people, why is that?

Cuz he has trouble swallowing that shit too *ba dum tsh*

10 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Put this in your mouth. Swallow. No teeth. That's it, swallow it. Pretend it's Jesus oh go on. Good...now your family.

The whole thing is sick.

Its symbolic you fuckin' heathen  

[soon]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

So you have no problems accepting that the christian faith doesn't manifest itself in people who through normal metrics aren't better than un-christians, despite its alleged focus on good behavior and having Jesus as a role model? 

Im sayin that coming to Christ is a bold pronouncement of ones own short comings. And Salvation from our brokenness is a moment and a journey.

"Alleged focus on good behaviour"? Hmmm, put so simplistically we'd have to wade through when Christ rode into town mocking the system and pretending to arrive as a political victor and then smashed up a bank. Do you thin smashing up a bank is good behaviour? He screamed "you brood of vipers" at his religious leaders. He broke every rule. He partied with hookers. That is the role model that we have. Not some hallmark cards bullshit.

[SoulMonster]

Just now, soon said:

Im sayin that coming to Christ is a bold pronouncement of ones own short comings. And Salvation from our brokenness is a moment and a journey.

"Alleged focus on good behaviour"? Hmmm, put so simplistically we'd have to wade through when Christ rode into town mocking the system and pretending to arrive as a political victor and then smashed up a bank. Do you thin smashing up a bank is good behaviour? He screamed "you brood of vipers" at his religious leaders. He broke every rule. He partied with hookers. That is the role model that we have. Not some hallmark cards bullshit.

How about murder? There is a rule against that, right? Would you expect christianity to work as a bulwark against committing murder? 

[Len Cnut]

10 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

It's stupid in every way. 

"I love you so much I'm going to pretend to consume your body and drink your blood."

I mean symbolic or not it's fucking mumbo jumbo lol

Its no more stupid than any number of symbolic or allegorical acts we engage in. 

[soon]

2 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

How about murder? There is a rule against that, right? Would you expect christianity to work as a bulwark against committing murder? 

If one desired to murder, we wouldnt see evidence of Christ in that persons life. Barring mental health.

You've prolly heard of the Red Cross, too?

Edited December 11, 2018 by soon

[Iron MikeyJ]

36 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Don't be original be unique/yourself. Originality is something that just happens and can't be forced. 

I think intelligence and wisdom is the truth. 

@Iron MikeyJ I don't feel a need to celebrate Christmas or Easter. What Leonard said basically. And if I ever have kids I won't tell them Santa's real either. I'll explain the crazy background of it all and that I'm just using it as an excuse to give them presents and fun. I might even say they can decide days for the family for replacement 2.0 holidays, mothers and fathers days on days that have nothing to do with greeting card company marketing etc

Which I'm sure you know Santa Claus is based on Saint Nicholas (a Catholic Saint). It was actually Dutch Protestants that "changed" the true story of Saint Nicholas and turned him into the guy flying around with reindeer. They spread that throughout Europe then to America. They called him SinterKlaas which got mistranslated into Santa Claus. But the true translation from Dutch is Saint Nicholas. 

Saint Nicholas was present at the council of Nicea (Nicine Creed), so its logical to assume he helped in writing it. He was also pivotal in the defeating of the Arianism heresy. Which basically states that Jesus was the Son of God, but a different being all together, not the one triune God that we believe in (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). This Arianism heresy was HUGE in Germamy, as the pagan festival of Yule. It was Saint Nicholas that helped defeat this heresy in Germany (as well as other places), as well as converting the Yule pagans into Christianity. While it is true that the Christmas tree specifically WAS burned as a sacrifice by the Yule pagans. Saint Nicholas incorporated the tree into Christianity to help bring those people to Christ. Instead of burning it, we decorate it though. As Catholics, we tend to compromise on the things that are of lesser importance (like the tree for example), in order to bring people to Christ (which is the important part). So that's where the tree and all the evergreen stuff got associated with Chritst's birth. Which this was sometime between 300-400 A.D.

As for the gift giving. There were three young girls whos Father was going to give them over for prostitution (because he was EXTREMELY poor, and wanted money). When Saint Nicholas heard of this, he threw a bag a gold into the mans window, for three consecutive nights (one bag for each girl), to prevent this from happening. This is where the idea of Saint Nicholas bringing presents to children comes from. It was to save the girls from prostitution. 

So while the story of "Santa Claus" has gotten extremely misguided over the centuries, HE is based on a Catholic Saint that actually resembles this idea of Santa to certain extent. He is where all the "other" Christmas traditions originate.

 

[SoulMonster]

5 minutes ago, soon said:

If one desired to murder, we wouldnt see evidence of Christ in that persons life. Barring mental health.

So if you kill someone you aren't a christian? I guess you can extend that rationale to any un-christian behavior that you don't like, narrowing christendom to a few perfect individuals  How sanctimonious! 

But that's not the normal definition of what a christian is. You don't stop being a christian just because you sin. 

Edited December 11, 2018 by SoulMonster

[Len Cnut]

9 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Aside from the fact that in-no-way validates or redeems it. Name one thing either of us do that's on that level.

To do that I'd have to know what bothers you about it in more detail, what is 'that level', what is it that you find objectionable, the cannibalistic overtone perhaps?  So far all you've given me is 'its mumbo jumbo', which I guess you mean just nonsense.  Well a lot of things we do are symbolic that are just nonsense.  Why chink your glasses together when you go cheers and have a drink, why high five? 

[Iron MikeyJ]

15 minutes ago, EvanG said:

That's a good point though... the pastor/priest always drinks some wine while he's preparing the ceremony, but I've never seen him offer his sheep some.

Catholic people, why is that?

They offer the wine every Sunday. I'm not sure what you are talking about?

[soon]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

So if you kill someone you aren't a christian? I guess you can extend that rationale to any un-christian behavior that you don't like, narrowing christendom to a few perfect individuals 

But that's not the normal definition of what a christian is. You don't stop being a christian just because you sin. 

You are again applying a worldly sesinibilty like if you break a rule in a corporation they fire you.

Yes, I trust its clear that forgiveness is at the core of Christianity. That doesnt change the fact that the desire to murder is at odds with seeing Gods fingerprints on all people.

And yes, we trust to be made 'perfect' in our uniion with God one day!

[Len Cnut]

13 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

Which I'm sure you know Santa Claus is based on Saint Nicholas (a Catholic Saint). It was actually Dutch Protestants that "changed" the true story of Saint Nicholas and turned him into the guy flying around with reindeer. They spread that throughout Europe then to America. They called him SinterKlaas which got mistranslated into Santa Claus. But the true translation from Dutch is Saint Nicholas. 

Saint Nicholas was present at the council of Nicea (Nicine Creed), so its logical to assume he helped in writing it. He was also pivotal in the defeating of the Arianism heresy. Which basically states that Jesus was the Son of God, but a different being all together, not the one triune God that we believe in (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). This Arianism heresy was HUGE in Germamy, as the pagan festival of Yule. It was Saint Nicholas that helped defeat this heresy in Germany (as well as other places), as well as converting the Yule pagans into Christianity. While it is true that the Christmas tree specifically WAS burned as a sacrifice by the Yule pagans. Saint Nicholas incorporated the tree into Christianity to help bring those people to Christ. Instead of burning it, we decorate it though. As Catholics, we tend to compromise on the things that are of lesser importance (like the tree for example), in order to bring people to Christ (which is the important part). So that's where the tree and all the evergreen stuff got associated with Chritst's birth. Which this was sometime between 300-400 A.D.

As for the gift giving. There were three young girls whos Father was going to give them over for prostitution (because he was EXTREMELY poor, and wanted money). When Saint Nicholas heard of this, he threw a bag a gold into the mans window, for three consecutive nights (one bag for each girl), to prevent this from happening. This is where the idea of Saint Nicholas bringing presents to children comes from. It was to save the girls from prostitution. 

So while the story of "Santa Claus" has gotten extremely misguided over the centuries, HE is based on a Catholic Saint that actually resembles this idea of Santa to certain extent. He is where all the "other" Christmas traditions originate.

 

Misguided suggests that it had some kind of rightful trajectory, which is simply not true.  Its for kids, kids don't wanna hear that shit, they just want a Tonka Truck or whatever bullshit it is kids are into these days with their hippin' and hoppin' and their new fangled wotsits, damn em.

[Iron MikeyJ]

2 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Misguided suggests that it had some kind of rightful trajectory, which is simply not true.  Its for kids, kids don't wanna hear that shit, they just want a Tonka Truck or whatever bullshit it is kids are into these days with their hippin' and hoppin' and their new fangled wotsits, damn em.

Not true. My kids love knowing about the real stories, not the "fake stuff" that gets tossed around by secular society. 

[Len Cnut]

9 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

Not true. My kids love knowing about the real stories, not the "fake stuff" that gets tossed around by secular society. 

Do they have a choice?

[SoulMonster]

Here's a funny story! When I was an undergraduate my professor gave me a little extracurricular assignment, to try to cultivate a microorganism that grew in bread. The bug was Serratius marsescens, a bacterium that can grow on very dry medium and forms red colonies. Back in medieval times when people where ignorant (or maybe in modern times since we are talking about christians here), they thought that if the communal bread had red patches it was Jesu blood and it would be super holy! Unfortunately, this bacterium is a human pathogen and lead to disease and death among the congregation! 

[Len Cnut]

9 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Here's a funny story! When I was an undergraduate my professor gave me a little extracurricular assignment, to try to cultivate a microorganism that grew in bread. The bug was Serratius marsescens, a bacterium that can grow on very dry medium and forms red colonies. Back in medieval times when people where ignorant (or maybe in modern times since we are talking about christians here), they thought that if the communal bread had red patches it was Jesu blood and it would be super holy! Unfortunately, this bacterium is a human pathogen and lead to disease and death among the congregation! 

And this is funny how?

[EvanG]

8 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

They offer the wine every Sunday. I'm not sure what you are talking about?

I remember from mass that the pastor drinks from this big cup while he is preparing the communion, and then he gives the bread but he's not selling anything else. And I'm not one to miss free booze. 

Edited December 11, 2018 by EvanG

[Iron MikeyJ]

As for December 25th specifically, there IS historical documentation that points to Christs birth actually being sometime between December 20th and January 5th (or so). We dont know the exact date, no. But there is proof that it actually was during this time of year. Not some time in April or July or whatever that people have been spreading the last X amount of years.