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11 minutes ago, Sosso said:

 

No joke, thats how my minds eye pictures Paul. Like eerily close especially since I always picture Paul looking a touch bewildered!

I always figured Jesus was barrel chested, producing a booming voice that the multitudes could hear.

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1 minute ago, soon said:

No joke, thats how my minds eye pictures Paul. Like eerily close especially since I always picture Paul looking a touch bewildered!

I always figured Jesus was barrel chested, producing a booming voice that the multitudes could hear.

Well he was a black guy so probably had a lot of bass in his voice. :lol:

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38 minutes ago, soon said:

No joke, thats how my minds eye pictures Paul. Like eerily close especially since I always picture Paul looking a touch bewildered!

I always figured Jesus was barrel chested, producing a booming voice that the multitudes could hear.

Someone told me that the bible describes Jesus as being quite plain looking, like not particularly attractive.  And with hair like lambs wool.  

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1 minute ago, Len Cnut said:

Because its the difference between the truth and a lie.  Like those mad American black nationalist who claim Shakespeare was black, it's just incorrect.  

We will never really know what Jesus looked like, will we? Plus it shouldn't matter. What does the colour of Jesus' skin or hair or eyes matter? I don't care if he was black, brown, yellow or white.

This is a Palestinian girl too:

0-768x512.jpg

Maybe Jesus looked like her?

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Just now, Oldest Goat said:

Not just a lie. A racist moronic lie.

It doesn't necessarily have to be racist, though it could be.  Perhaps there wasn't as much thought put into it...or perhaps people just respond better to a God made more in their image than one thats kind of removed from it.  

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We will never really know what Jesus looked like, will we? Plus it shouldn't matter.

Does something have to have a life or death level consequence for people to want to know the truth?  Why would somebody not seek to have as clear a picture of the reality of a given situation as humanly possible?

Quote

What does the colour of Jesus' skin or hair or eyes matter? I don't care if he was black, brown, yellow or white.

Because these things can have a bearing on how the message is understood, you would seek to know who he is, where he was from, what the given situation was socially, politically in his time, its all part of the overall picture, if you perpetuate a lie in one aspect of the picture then it can lead you down blind alleys in other avenues.  

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1 minute ago, Oldest Goat said:

It's very clearly distasteful and racist. The sun behind his head in paintings is lifted from the pagan sun worship and placed there to ween them onto Christianity. The whole image, story - everything, is just cobbled together junk. 

If Jesus was a real person from history and I spoke to him today I'd say "Maybe you were a good guy once upon a time but you know why I don't believe in you and everything that goes with it, right?" And, unless he was far less genuine and intelligent than I am he'd say "Of course mate. I mean it's pretty fucking obvious lololol."

What'd be more interesting would be if he said 'of course mate, I mean its pretty fucking obvious that I was a gay black communist' :lol: 

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8 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Does something have to have a life or death level consequence for people to want to know the truth?  Why would somebody not seek to have as clear a picture of the reality of a given situation as humanly possible?

Because these things can have a bearing on how the message is understood, you would seek to know who he is, where he was from, what the given situation was socially, politically in his time, its all part of the overall picture, if you perpetuate a lie in one aspect of the picture then it can lead you down blind alleys in other avenues.  

It's a guy who lived thousands of years ago. We'll never know exactly what he looked like. We do know he probably wasn't blonde and blue eyes, but I couldn't care less what he looked like. It's only his message that matters.

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5 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Someone told me that the bible describes Jesus as being quite plain looking, like not particularly attractive.  And with hair like lambs wool.  

Im your Pascal, dont let others get you confused! Jesus appearance, during the Gospel accounts, is not described. Nor is it described in Acs or the Epistles. What is described in Apocalyptic Poetry is the returning Christ with hair like wool. John who is giving the description knew the Earthly Christ and seems to be offering a "new" description of his appearance.

In the same way that I guess he maybe had a large chest, so he could be heard at a distance, theres room to imagine he wasnt off putting in appearance. Maybe even attractive like a majority of exceptionally popular people. On the other hand, most of those who "saw' Jesus couldnt actually see him due to distance and crowds. So maybe his looks didnt play as much of a factor as a pop star today. We just dont know. Its one of those things that really differentiates the narrative from Hellenism or the Roman State Religion with its focus on beauty. Christs appearance would have been described in detail in that setting. Also no statuary of him because he was a peasant revolutionary, who mocked the pretence of Kingdoms.

He was with out a home and traveled. So any good looks were likely rugged, sunkist and caked in dirt. We can only take that so far though because the authors did describe JtheB's attire, appearance and diet. It painted him as a crazy hermit. So by deduction we would say that Jesus did not have a wild man appearance. 

Taking things further, we do have info on Jesus heritage and genealogy going back 14 generations to his great great great, etc, maternal grandfather; King David. The scriptures tell us that David was attractive. So taken with a grain of salt allowing for all the changing genes over time, one could say "yay a lil hint about Jesus appearance." So his mom may have come from good stock and God is his father! Jesus is bringing sexy back! But the major issue (beyond the obvious bunch of other genes in the equation) is that David was being groomed for an audience as a young, warrior king. He was one of their first kings. His beauty would potentially be exaggerated for effect. In the first verse here we see specifically that his enemies were said to be off put by his amazing attractiveness, lol.

(Side note, if one travels to the region today most Arabic accents will pronounce "Palestine" as "Philistine" especially when tired. Makes vivd how old these wounds are)

1 Samuel 17:42 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

42 When the Philistine looked and saw David, he disdained him, for he was only a youth, ruddy and handsome in appearance.

1 Samuel 16:12 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

12 He sent and brought him in. Now he was ruddy, and had beautiful eyes, and was handsome. The Lord said, “Rise and anoint him; for this is the one.”

 

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30 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

It's very clearly distasteful and racist. The sun behind his head in paintings is lifted from the pagan sun worship and placed there to ween them onto Christianity. The whole image, story - everything, is just cobbled together junk. 

If Jesus was a real person from history and I spoke to him today I'd say "Maybe you were a good guy once upon a time but you know why I don't believe in you and everything that goes with it, right?" And, unless he was far less genuine and intelligent than I am he'd say "Of course mate. I mean it's pretty fucking obvious lololol."

You'll wanna bother to actually fact check those claims about a cobbled together image. Also, again, try to avoid the pitfall of describing Catholicism and its iconography as a representation of Christ and all Christianity.

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By the way, the three wise men were black, Asian and European, to signify that Jesus was born for the whole world, for all cultures. Just mentioning that because of all the evils in the world being thrown at us again.

Since America hadn't been discovered yet, there wasn't a native American person. Africa, Asia and Europe were all that was known.

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1 hour ago, soon said:

Im your Pascal, dont let others get you confused! Jesus appearance, during the Gospel accounts, is not described. Nor is it described in Acs or the Epistles. What is described in Apocalyptic Poetry is the returning Christ with hair like wool. John who is giving the description knew the Earthly Christ and seems to be offering a "new" description of his appearance.

In the same way that I guess he maybe had a large chest, so he could be heard at a distance, theres room to imagine he wasnt off putting in appearance. Maybe even attractive like a majority of exceptionally popular people. On the other hand, most of those who "saw' Jesus couldnt actually see him due to distance and crowds. So maybe his looks didnt play as much of a factor as a pop star today. We just dont know. Its one of those things that really differentiates the narrative from Hellenism or the Roman State Religion with its focus on beauty. Christs appearance would have been described in detail in that setting. Also no statuary of him because he was a peasant revolutionary, who mocked the pretence of Kingdoms.

He was with out a home and traveled. So any good looks were likely rugged, sunkist and caked in dirt. We can only take that so far though because the authors did describe JtheB's attire, appearance and diet. It painted him as a crazy hermit. So by deduction we would say that Jesus did not have a wild man appearance. 

Taking things further, we do have info on Jesus heritage and genealogy going back 14 generations to his great great great, etc, maternal grandfather; King David. The scriptures tell us that David was attractive. So taken with a grain of salt allowing for all the changing genes over time, one could say "yay a lil hint about Jesus appearance." So his mom may have come from good stock and God is his father! Jesus is bringing sexy back! But the major issue (beyond the obvious bunch of other genes in the equation) is that David was being groomed for an audience as a young, warrior king. He was one of their first kings. His beauty would potentially be exaggerated for effect. In the first verse here we see specifically that his enemies were said to be off put by his amazing attractiveness, lol.

(Side note, if one travels to the region today most Arabic accents will pronounce "Palestine" as "Philistine" especially when tired. Makes vivd how old these wounds are)

1 Samuel 17:42 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

42 When the Philistine looked and saw David, he disdained him, for he was only a youth, ruddy and handsome in appearance.

1 Samuel 16:12 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

12 He sent and brought him in. Now he was ruddy, and had beautiful eyes, and was handsome. The Lord said, “Rise and anoint him; for this is the one.”

 

In case this is misunderstood, the not particularly attractive thing, apparently, according to what I was told, was to do with like...y'know, people following him for the message as opposed to anything else.

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7 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

In case this is misunderstood, the not particularly attractive thing, apparently, according to what I was told, was to do with like...y'know, people following him for the message as opposed to anything else.

You posted to me about a really fun Bible study thingy - I could not resist but to dive-in head first! I dont think theres a misunderstanding, just a different expectation about how much thought two words (Jesus appearance) can produce in the theological sense... from a nerd like me at least :lol:

What you say is interesting though. Makes plenty of sense. Do you recall where you heard that?

 

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28 minutes ago, soon said:

You posted to me about a really fun Bible study thingy - I could not resist but to dive-in head first! I dont think theres a misunderstanding, just a different expectation about how much thought two words (Jesus appearance) can produce in the theological sense... from a nerd like me at least :lol:

What you say is interesting though. Makes plenty of sense. Do you recall where you heard that?

 

Yeah, a pentecostal friend of mine.

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I'm a little disappointed and suprised by the turn of this topic today. While I agree that Jesus wasnt blond hair and blue eyes, he WAS indeed Caucasian. A darker complected caucasian, yes. But caucasian none the less.

How do I know this? For starters ALL Jewish people fall into the Caucasian category. As do Muslims and other "arabs" as a matter of fact. Are they a darker complected version? Yes, but still considered the SAME race. Not that it matters, but since you want to talk about the facts, THESE are the facts...

A quick Google search will show EVERYONE that technically (scientifically) only 6 races exists. You tell me which one Christ belongs to?

Taken from official websites...

  • American Indian or Alaska Native. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America), and who maintains tribal affiliation or community attachment.
  • Asian. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam.
  • Black or African American. A person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa. Terms such as "Haitian" or "Negro" can be used in addition to "Black or African American."
  • Hispanic or Latino. A person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race. The term, "Spanish origin," can be used in addition to "Hispanic or Latino."
  • Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Hawaii, Guam, Samoa, or other Pacific Islands.
  • White. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa.
Edited by Iron MikeyJ
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8 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Yeah, a pentecostal friend of mine.

Fascinating. Where I live Pentecostals are synonymous with abundant cleavage, big hair, fancy attire and cologne thats sure to stir the Holy Ghost - beauty is a part of their tradition.

The 'hair like wool' reference comes from Revelations, when Jesus returns. For me, it doesn't describe a plain Jesus, imo. I'd love to understand their position more.

Revelation 1:13-16 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

13 and in the midst of the lampstands I saw one like the Son of Man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden sash across his chest. 14 His head and his hair were white as white wool, white as snow; his eyes were like a flame of fire, 15 his feet were like burnished bronze, refined as in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and from his mouth came a sharp, two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining with full force.

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5 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:
  • American Indian or Alaska Native. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America), and who maintains tribal affiliation or community attachment.
  • Asian. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam.
  • Black or African American. A person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa. Terms such as "Haitian" or "Negro" can be used in addition to "Black or African American."
  • Hispanic or Latino. A person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race. The term, "Spanish origin," can be used in addition to "Hispanic or Latino."
  • Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Hawaii, Guam, Samoa, or other Pacific Islands.
  • White. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa.

I think in Europe Spanish people are considered white.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2015-10-28/im-white-barcelona-los-angeles-im-hispanic

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7 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

I'm a little disappointed and suprised by the turn of this topic today. While I agree that Jesus wasnt blond hair and blue eyes, he WAS indeed Caucasian. A darker complected caucasian, yes. But caucasian none the less.

Nah. Jesus was a black man, no Jesus was Batman! I have it on good authority! :lol: 

 

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4 minutes ago, soon said:

Fascinating. Where I live Pentecostals are synonymous with abundant cleavage, big hair, fancy attire and cologne thats sure to stir the Holy Ghost - beauty is a part of their tradition.

The 'hair like wool' reference comes from Revelations, when Jesus returns. For me, it doesn't describe a plain Jesus, imo. I'd love to understand their position more.

Revelation 1:13-16 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

13 and in the midst of the lampstands I saw one like the Son of Man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden sash across his chest. 14 His head and his hair were white as white wool, white as snow; his eyes were like a flame of fire, 15 his feet were like burnished bronze, refined as in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and from his mouth came a sharp, two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining with full force.

I think it was more that he was plain or something, not ugly or anything.  I'll ask her if you like.

Just now, Dazey said:

Nah. Jesus was a black man, no Jesus was Batman! I have it on good authority! :lol: 

 

no no no, that was Bruce Waaaaaaayne!

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