Ace Nova Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: I would personally divide them between passive atheists, who basically don't believe in god but do not insist on ramming their opinions down everyone's throat and lead their life, and militant atheists who are utterly obsessed with the subject and constantly hectoring people about it. The latter are more prevalent today, perhaps since Dawkins/Hitchens wrote various books. The latter are just like militant vegans and militant environmentalists. Really annoying shits. Pretty much. The extremists are actually "theists" of Dawkins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: The Bible was more compiled than written as far as my limited awareness. What was mankind like, well how the fuck should I know, I'm younger than you and I doubt you've seen much before the 80s Agreed. Open your mind for a minute. If God came down and told everyone that he lived in another dimension and that that time was simply a dimension...how would people react? We live in a time that faith is closer to science than it has ever been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said: If I had to pick a religion it'd probably be Buddhism. There's a law of thermodynamics that energy cannot be created or destroyed only transferred. Our brains and nervous system use electrical energy. I wonder if we die and this energy transfers into a different state of existence in this dimension or perhaps another. That would be reincarnation or something akin to it. Maybe we don't retain our consciousness/'soul' though it could be like just dissipating and going back into universal cake-mix. If I had to pick a religion it'd be fuckin' none of em. They're all fascinating and an understanding of them is important to understanding the world around us and I even don't have a problem with people believing in em, hey, do what you like...but none of em look appealing, no one way does to me because it all boils down to one thing to me, why, where's the proof, I don't see any proof of it in anything. Perhaps thats me, perhaps I'm just blind to it because God knows there's enough people out there who clearly do but I just don't. Never have. Things can sound appealing in dribs and drabs but lots of things in life can sound appealing, don't mean to say they're right. It's like this, I've only got one crack at life, there's really no time to be fuckin' around, if a thing is real I'll be right in line but until I see something that indicates that it is I'm gonna concentrate on things that I personally find to be of greater value. And to be honest I don't feel a need for it either, nothing about the puzzle of life is missing for me in that sense. Edited June 24, 2019 by Len Cnut 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Kasanova King said: Pretty much. The extremists are actually "theists" of Dawkins. There is actually a lot that is religious in the manner they go on. I am thinking especially of hatchet-faced puritanical protestants of the 17th century who espouse predestination, elect v dammed. There is the same preoccupation/obsession with the subject matter and the same inability to respect the opposing argument - the same hectoring (''I am right and you are wrong'') holier than thou tone. The irony is hilarious. Atheists are the new apostles. The God Delusion is the new Bible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 13 minutes ago, Kasanova King said: Agreed. Open your mind for a minute. If God came down and told everyone that he lived in another dimension and that that time was simply a dimension...how would people react? We live in a time that faith is closer to science than it has ever been. I imagine they'd shit their pants As far as faith getting closer to science, I dunno, it very possibly is...but there's still a pretty big fuckin' gap there. Not that science is the be all and end all but it appears to be the best we have. I got this mental image now of God being Krang from Ninja Turtles 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: I imagine they'd shit their pants As far as faith getting closer to science, I dunno, it very possibly is...but there's still a pretty big fuckin' gap there. Not that science is the be all and end all but it appears to be the best we have. I got this mental image now of God being Krang from Ninja Turtles People were fucking savages back then. Of course the Old Testament seems stern to us nowadays. Back then it was the way it was. The Quran isn't much different and it was written hundreds of years after the Old Testament. The New Testament of Jesus Christ is God's way of saying..."Hey folks, this is the way it is now". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said: I would immediately start donating money to your pedophile cult and hurriedly wolf down a bunch of wafers and wine while writing out many lines of hail Mary's on a chalkboard. I actually quite like catholicism. Conceptually speaking. There's something appealing about it. All the pomp and ceremony and all that. Its inspired a lot of great works of art too (understatement of the fuckin' century) which makes it further appealing. 15 minutes ago, Kasanova King said: People were fucking savages back then. Of course the Old Testament seems stern to us nowadays. Back then it was the way it was. The Quran isn't much different and it was written hundreds of years after the Old Testament. The New Testament of Jesus Christ is God's way of saying..."Hey folks, this is the way it is now". Oh I get that...none of this leads one closer to believing in God though. I actually quite like The Bible, its difficult not to if you like literature. But liking it and believing it are two different things. Edited June 24, 2019 by Len Cnut 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 8 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said: I would immediately start donating money to your pedophile cult and hurriedly wolf down a bunch of wafers and wine while writing out many lines of hail Mary's on a chalkboard. I'm not going to defend the priests that did that shit. They are pigs. But to criticize the 99.9% of priests and the millions of good people that are Catholic is somewhat prejudice...don't you think? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basic_GnR_Fan Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said: While I agree the vast majority of Catholics/people-in-general are decent folks(Certainly not something as evil as pedophiles.) I do not agree it's prejudice to criticize your group or any other for that matter. I do it out of sanity and compassion and sincere concern not some strange discriminatory hatred for all the good people who are in my opinion lost and legitimizing/endorsing a pedophile cult. I find it very frustrating. If you guys rounded up the priests and they were punished here and now by mans law and the Vatican hierarchy was abolished, the secret libraries were digitized and shared and a healthy Catholicsm 2.0 arose then I would be very happy for all, despite still not personally sharing your religious beliefs. Catholic here, the fact that the house needs to be cleaned and that they need to be more open about things I absolutely agree with. It's an absolute disgrace that this wasn't cleaned up when news first broke. I disagree on the idea of a hierarchy. You need some type of hierarchy to make final decisions on theological issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Dazey said: All an atheist is saying is show me some proof and I'll believe what you say. No evidence = no belief basically. all i'm saying is show me proof that god does not exist and i'll believe you too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Oldest Goat said: While I agree the vast majority of Catholics/people-in-general are decent folks(Certainly not something as evil as pedophiles.) I do not agree it's prejudice to criticize your group or any other for that matter. I do it out of sanity and compassion and sincere concern not some strange discriminatory hatred for all the good people who are in my opinion lost and legitimizing/endorsing a pedophile cult. I find it very frustrating. I see your logic. And in a sense, you are on a very high moral platform. But how can you walk outside when your country has pedos running loose? Every nation has sickos. The Catholic Church is no different. And yes, it's extremely hypocritical when the largest religious nation in the world fails to bring these people to justice....and yes....it looks like the same old "buddy buddy" system of politics....and maybe there was some of that. But for someone to look down on another human being for being Catholic is no different than looking down on someone because of where they are from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 57 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: There are various groupings of atheists - even atheists are not very much in agreement, on right Explicit "positive" / "strong" / "hard" atheists assert that "At least one deity exists" is false. on right Explicit "negative" / "weak" / "soft" atheists do not assert the above but reject or eschew a belief that any deities exist. on left Implicit "negative" / "weak" / "soft" atheists include agnostics (and infants or babies) who do not believe or do not know whether a deity or deities exist and who have not explicitly rejected or eschewed such a belief. nice tits 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 53 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: I'll tell yous one thing for free though, of all the notions of a higher power, a high power a defined by the judeo/christian/islamic theology seems the least likely. I don't think any of those "define" god sure, they call him yahweh whatshisface, but as to the true nature of god? don't they all say it's a mystery? that's my understanding of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 6 minutes ago, action said: all i'm saying is show me proof that god does not exist and i'll believe you too It's not possible to prove the non-existence of anything. If something does exist you should be able to show evidence otherwise the logical conclusion must be that it doesn't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 18 minutes ago, action said: I don't think any of those "define" god sure, they call him yahweh whatshisface, but as to the true nature of god? don't they all say it's a mystery? that's my understanding of it True, in the sense of understanding the fabric of God but I mean the narrative aspects, the son and the father and the holy ghost and showing up in Israel as a carpenter or Moses and the burning bush and all that game or the arab merchant trader Muhammad and his getting revelations from angels and flying on a winged horse on a tour of various places etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 22 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said: While I agree the vast majority of Catholics/people-in-general are decent folks(Certainly not something as evil as pedophiles.) I do not agree it's prejudice to criticize your group or any other for that matter. I do it out of sanity and compassion and sincere concern not some strange discriminatory hatred for all the good people who are in my opinion lost and legitimizing/endorsing a pedophile cult. I find it very frustrating. If you guys rounded up the priests and they were punished here and now by mans law and the Vatican hierarchy was abolished, the secret libraries were digitized and shared and a healthy Catholicsm 2.0 arose then I would be very happy for all, despite still not personally sharing your religious beliefs. yes, you are prejudiced to a group of people, as this post clearly shows. you criticise "our group", not only pedophile priests. if you take away the pedophile priests, what have the 99,99 % of good christians done wrong to you? consciously or not, I don't care, but your posts is prejudiced to the point of inciting hate on religious grounds. (Where i live such statements are a criminal offence, just telling) Sure, lots of pedophile priests abound, but that has absolutely nothing to do with "our group" as you call it. Why can't you narrow down your criticism to pedophile priests? why involving every one of us? And another thing, I certainly do not need your compassion, the least from an individual calling my belief ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dazey said: It's not possible to prove the non-existence of anything. If something does exist you should be able to show evidence otherwise the logical conclusion must be that it doesn't. That makes sense to me. When I look at my son's eyes, when I see the intricacy of flowers, when I am humbled by mountains and the beauty of the sea, when I stare at the clouds by day and am silenced by the stars at night, when I look at the moon and gaze down on my palm, looking at every intricate detail... you don't need faith to believe in God. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: True, in the sense of understanding the fabric of God but I mean the narrative aspects, the son and the father and the holy ghost and showing up in Israel as a carpenter or Moses and the burning bush and all that game or the arab merchant trader Muhammad and his getting revelations from angels and flying on a winged horse on a tour of various places etc. yeah, that's all very interesting (nah, not so much), but ultimately the bible, nor the quran or any other book tells the thing that matters: who or what is god? strangely, the bible does not try to prove god exists. it just tells you god is there, as a given. Then, god does all sorts of goofy stuff as you described (a lot of which, has been conveniently borrowed from much older tales). I never took the bible as proof of god, I always thought it was kind of a boring book to be honest, I still think. But to me, there is just absolute certainty that god exists. Proof, is everywhere around you. Like a dead body and a gun is proof of a murder, the trees, the earth, the universe, the fundamental elements, the fundamental laws and all the forces of the universe are proof of creation Edited June 24, 2019 by action Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 13 minutes ago, Kasanova King said: That makes sense to me. When I look at my son's eyes, when I see the intricacy of flowers, when I am humbled by mountains and the beauty of the sea, when I stare at the clouds by day and am silenced by the stars at night, when I look at the moon and gaze down on my palm, looking at every intricate detail... you don't need faith to believe in God. This is something I've never had. It makes me think the worlds a beautiful place...but God? Do I see the hand of God in that? I can't make that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: This is something I've never had. It makes me think the worlds a beautiful place...but God? Do I see the hand of God in that? I can't make that. Open your mind. I can buy a video game created by dozens of developers and can create my own virtual reality world. And we are in 2019. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Quote yeah, that's all very interesting (nah, not so much), but ultimately the bible, nor the quran or any other book tells the thing that matters: who or what is god? I guess mankind aren't really disposed to comprehend the infinite. Things have to have an identity, a beginning an end, where did it come from, how longs it been here etc etc. And if God is all seeing all knowing all omnipotent then we can't ever understand him/her/it. Which I suppose would be a good response to the atheist perspective of requiring proof. So it all boils down to a feeling in certain individuals and a lack of that same feeling in others. Quote Proof, is everywhere around you. Like a dead body and a gun is proof of a muder, the trees, the earth, the universe, the fundamental elements, the fundamental laws and all the forces of the universe are proof of creation I struggle to make that connection, I don't see the logical line of reasoning between a world full of beauty and the intracies of the building blocks of life and the existence of a deity. Unless of course the universe itself is God, there's a curious proposition. Because end of the day nature and all that is in it is kind of self governing. But then by that theory we would be parts of God, which I suppose lends credence to certain faiths that say God lives inside us, we are all one etc etc 13 minutes ago, Kasanova King said: Open your mind. I can buy a video game created by dozens of developers and can create my own virtual reality world. And we are in 2019. You've lost me there Skip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 13 minutes ago, action said: Like a dead body and a gun is proof of a murder, the trees, the earth, the universe, the fundamental elements, the fundamental laws and all the forces of the universe are proof of creation Not really. Science can explain in great detail pretty much everything you’ve just mentioned without the need to invoke a creator. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 stuff like this made me believe in god (not proof, but more than strong indications, on a scientific level): and this: no bible in sight, just respected scientists. to me, more than strong indications of a creator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, Dazey said: Not really. Science can explain in great detail pretty much everything you’ve just mentioned without the need to invoke a creator. The origins of DNA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 6 minutes ago, Dazey said: Not really. Science can explain in great detail pretty much everything you’ve just mentioned without the need to invoke a creator. I would certainly like to hear that explanation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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