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Kasanova King

The Religion/Spirituality Thread

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Just now, SoulMonster said:

So basically you are ignorant about how all these things could exist without god. Okay.

Smh.

Yep.  I have zero understanding of evolution and science.  

Contrary to popular belief, one can actually have an education and believe in God.  ;)

 

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13 minutes ago, action said:

but science can't explain the role of dark energy in all of this, for one thing.

So? Are you going to argue that because science can't explain everything god must exist? If so, the likelihood of gods' existence has gone from 100 % (before science was developed as a method) to about 0.00001 now when science can explain almost everything :lol:

And as for your questions that science cannot say "why" we are here, that's just because that is a question that presupposes that we have been put here for a reason. The questions itself requires an intelligent designer. Whereas in my opinion we are the result of abiogenesis and evolution, completely indifferent, non-sentient processes and hence asking for "why" makes no sense.

6 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

Do you believe that there is a "possibility" of a "Higher Power"?

Sure, a theoretical possibility close to, but not equal to, zero. Just like there is a possibility that I am just a computer algorithm, or something like that. Such a distant possibility that it can be all but ignored. 

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2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

So? Are you going to argue that because science can't explain everything god must exist? If so, the likelihood of gods' existence has gone from 100 % (before science was developed as a method) to about 0.00001 now when science can explain almost everything :lol:

And as for your questions that science cannot say "why" we are here, that's just because that is a question that presupposes that we have been put here for a reason. The questions itself requires an intelligent designer. Whereas in my opinion we are the result of abiogenesis and evolution, completely indifferent, non-sentient processes and hence asking for "why" makes no sense.

Sure, a theoretical possibility close to, but not equal to, zero. Just like there is a possibility that I am just a computer algorithm, or something like that. Such a distant possibility that it can be all but ignored. 

You're Agnostic. 

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3 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

Smh.

Yep.  I have zero understanding of evolution and science.  

I didn't say you had no knowledge about how science explains these phenomena, but that you are ignorant about how they could exist in a god-less universe -  because why else would you embrace an explanation that requires a supernatural agent when we have perfectly fine natural explanations that works without anything supernatural? At the very least you have to think that there is a higher probability that god is behind it all than it is just outcomes of natural processes, which again implies you don't really get it. 

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Just now, Kasanova King said:

You're Agnostic. 

Depends on the definition. But if so I must also, for epistemological consistency, say that I don't really know what my grandfather's name is, I don't really know if I exist, and I don't really know if Earth is round and so on, too. And that makes me come across as a lunatic. So I prefer atheist.

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Just now, SoulMonster said:

I didn't say you had no knowledge about how science explains these phenomena, but that you are ignorant about how they could exist in a god-less universe -  because why else would you embrace an explanation that requires a supernatural agent when we have perfectly fine natural explanations that works without anything supernatural? At the very least you have to think that there is a higher probability that god is behind it all than it is just outcomes of natural processes, which again implies you don't really get it. 

What you fail to understand is that my faith in God is based on the universe and everything that exists within it.  My post was a simple "Thank You" to our existence.  I am humbled and grateful for the world around us.  

Not you, for say...but if some "atheists" would take a step back, take a breather...maybe they too could get a glimpse of reality.

4 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Depends on the definition. But if so I must also, for epistemological consistency, say that I don't really know what my grandfather's name is, I don't really know if I exist, and I don't really know if Earth is round and so on, too. And that makes me come across as a lunatic. So I prefer atheist.

Sure.  But you're Agnostic. 

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6 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Depends on the definition. But if so I must also, for epistemological consistency, say that I don't really know what my grandfather's name is, I don't really know if I exist, and I don't really know if Earth is round and so on, too. And that makes me come across as a lunatic. So I prefer atheist.

:lol:

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

What you fail to understand is that my faith in God is based on the universe and everything that exists within it. 

What does this mean?

18 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

Not you, for say...but if some "atheists" would take a step back, take a breather...maybe they too could get a glimpse of reality.

A breather of some strong hallucinogenic, perhaps. 

18 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

Sure.  But you're Agnostic. 

Whatever.

Edited by SoulMonster
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41 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

 

Abiogenesis.

 

fancy way to say god

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1 hour ago, Oldest Goat said:

The difference is my country actively fights to bring pedophiles to justice and the Catholic church actively fights to protect them. But yes there is wrongdoing everywhere it is unfortunately part of life. But we should fight to reduce it as much as we can especially when it is so brazen and obvious as it is in this case.

That's why I speak with such fervor; the obviousness of it all. It's not that I think I'm this high moral dude who has it all figured out. I've fucking definitely got this figured out though that I am certain.

Looking down on someone for being Catholic isn't the same as that because you can help being Catholic you can't help where you're born. But just to be very clear I don't look down on you. In fact I like you, Mikey, Gracii, Lio, Basic, action(think that's all the Catholics on here I've interacted with?). I guess I am just a very demanding guy I expect people to be on the same page when something's so obvious. It's not that I think I'm above you all. I'm the kind of person who doesn't need to go around approving 100% of someone's ideals to care about them and get along. You would be welcome here. 

Yeah...sort of like saying to a black guy "I have friends that are black".  

And good for you, you should speak with fervor against such things.  So do we.  It's an embarrassment to us and an abomination to our church.  Pope Francis is on the same page and has promised prosecution by law to all those involved.   

Like I said earlier, I will not defend or make excuses for those pigs.  They should and will be brought to justice.  That's all that can and will be done and for anyone to be prejudicial against Catholics because of those pigs, it's a joke imo.  

Anyone who has traveled the world can testify that Catholics are among the nicest, most respectful people on Earth.  If that's not enough for some, then so be it.  

(That has nothing to do with you, bud...I like you as a person as well.  :thumbsup:)

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Just now, action said:

fancy way to say god

It is the theories on how the predecessors to living cells, replicating molecules and proto-cells, can develop through entirely naturalistic processes from inorganic and organic precursors. So it is very much not about any gods.

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2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

It is the theories on how the predecessors to living cells, replicating molecules and proto-cells, can develop through entirely naturalistic processes from inorganic and organic precursors. So it is very much not about any gods.

has biogenesis suddenly stopped?

If so, Why?

If not, where is all the new life on earth, created every day with biogenesis?

 

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A breather of some strong hallucinogenic, perhaps. 

Shit, I'm in! :D

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11 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

What does this mean?

A breather of some strong hallucinogenic, perhaps. 

Whatever.

You should take a breather, my friend.  And take a nice vacation with your kids.  I know you like nature and photography, take some nice photos of you and your family.  That's what life is about.  And yes, I attribute that to the Spirit of God that is within us.  You attribute it to DNA and self awareness.  I do too.   At the same time, I give praise to God.  Science and God can and do exist in harmony.   And it feels good to be humble and give credit to a "Higher Power".  

  

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2 minutes ago, action said:

has biogenesis suddenly stopped?

You mean abiogenesis. 

As far as we can tell, no new lifeforms originate from inorganic matter on Earth. All new life forms come as the results of evolution (biogenesis). 

The reason for this isn't really mysterious, though, today the Earth is a much moe hostile and competitive environment for new lifeforms than what is was 4.3 billion years ago when nutrients were plentiful and competition non-existent. Any new lifeform arising from abiogenesis today must necessarily compete with lifeforms that have been adapted through millions of years to efficiently survive in their environments. 

Just now, Kasanova King said:

You should take a breather, my friend.  And take a nice vacation with your kids.  I know you like nature and photography, take some nice photos of you and your family.  That's what life is about.  

Well, as you know I do take vacations with my families so I think I know what life is about already. But thanks?

1 minute ago, Kasanova King said:

And yes, I attribute that to the Spirit of God that is within us.  

But that is just something you believe and which flies in the face of more sensible explanations. 

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4 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

You mean abiogenesis. 

As far as we can tell, no new lifeforms originate from inorganic matter on Earth. All new life forms come as the results of evolution (biogenesis). 

The reason for this isn't really mysterious, though, today the Earth is a much moe hostile and competitive environment for new lifeforms than what is was 4.3 billion years ago when nutrients were plentiful and competition non-existent. Any new lifeform arising from abiogenesis today must necessarily compete with lifeforms that have been adapted through millions of years to efficiently survive in their environments. 

Well, as you know I do take vacations with my families so I think I know what life is about already. But thanks?

But that is just something you believe and which flies in the face of more sensible explanations. 

moe? 

moe.png

also, more hostile than when earth was still a pile of hot boiling lava?

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1 minute ago, action said:

also, more hostile than when earth was still a pile of hot boiling lava?

No, less hostile when the Earth was just a pile of boiling lava. Perfectly accommodating to the first extremophilic organisms, descendants of which we can now find in environments most of today's lifeforms, especially us animals, would find completely inhabitable like hot pools, acidic waters, under extreme pressure, etc.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/24/2019 at 11:55 AM, SoulMonster said:

You mean abiogenesis. 

As far as we can tell, no new lifeforms originate from inorganic matter on Earth. All new life forms come as the results of evolution (biogenesis). 

The reason for this isn't really mysterious, though, today the Earth is a much moe hostile and competitive environment for new lifeforms than what is was 4.3 billion years ago when nutrients were plentiful and competition non-existent. Any new lifeform arising from abiogenesis today must necessarily compete with lifeforms that have been adapted through millions of years to efficiently survive in their environments. 

Well, as you know I do take vacations with my families so I think I know what life is about already. But thanks?

But that is just something you believe and which flies in the face of more sensible explanations. 

It's more of a  feeling than a "belief".    At the same time, I understand evolution, science and theory.   

 

On a side note, do you believe the origins of DNA were created spontaneously?

 

Edited by Kasanova King

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2 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

The rampant issues of abuse and rape is so systemic and rampant and ongoing and for so long I do not believe their corrupt organisation is capable of being more open. Especially considering they have always fiercely protected the wrongdoers. I'm not buying what the current PR-Pope is selling.

The house doesn't need to be cleaned it needs to be condemned it is rotten. Take the bits that are still good and build something better.

Well I'm in principle on board with you. I'm just saying, whatever is left after the change needs to have some type of hierarchy. 

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I find the new athiest vs religious fundie type debates to be very boring I'd just say to the two camps:

Militant Atheists - People can believe in evolution and everything scientifically that you do and STILL believe in God. Material science will never disprove God or even the idea of God.

Religious fundamentalist types - stop using God of the Gaps arguments, those are played out and become dated very quick.

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1 hour ago, Kasanova King said:

It's more of a  feeling that a "belief".    At the same time, I understand evolution, science and theory.   

On a side note, do you believe the origins of DNA were created spontaneously?

The very simplest, first replicators, were created through random self-assembly. Yes. But now we are likely talking about simplest forms of RNA molecules that can self-replicate.

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1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

The very simplest, first replicators, were created through random self-assembly. Yes. But now we are likely talking about simplest forms of RNA molecules that can self-replicate.

random self assembly? look at what you're saying. you believe in random self-assembly. What is that? things putting themselves together and becoming life? Not very likely.

why is random self assembly more probably than god? it's equally esotheric, but out of the two a creator seems like the least improbable.

if random self assembly was a thing, I would have never needed to assemble my ikea furniture anymore

Energy does not add, and energy does not go away. So how can things spring into existence, "ab nihilo"?

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13 minutes ago, action said:

Why is random self assembly more probably than god? it's equally esotheric, but out of the two a creator seems like the least improbable  

Not really since then you are just left with the question of where the creator came from. 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Not really since then you are just left with the question of where the creator came from. 

pure logic (I know, our logical capabilities are limited as per definition, but it's the only thing we have so we'll just make do with it)

observation: there is a universe with life in it

explanation 1: abiogenesis (or whatever it is called) the universe and life, with all it's proven intricacies, all happened spontaneous, out of a vacuum (it must be a vacuum in this theory, or else you imply a creator)

or....

explanation 2: a creator made it all and fine tuned the universe in such a way, that life can emerge in it. 

If you look over all the scientific data, that is already gathered (extremely fine-tuned cosmic values; quantum inconsistencies and the observation of pixels and computer code on a fundamental level of matter), and you apply logic to it, then the more probably answer is a creator, rather than a vacuum

Edited by action
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I'm an atheist. I don't go around promoting it and i have never tried to change anyones opinion on religion. I have friends that are christian who go to church regularly and we get along just fine. My best mate was raised muslim. Religion is something that my group of friends rarely discuss, it's a personal choice what you believe in and would not judge someone on their beliefs.

 

Everyone knows that Slash is the only god :P

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