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Kasanova King

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19 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

How am I disagreeing with the official Catholic doctrine?

By being non judgmental and believing that God will have mercy on unbaptized children?

:lol:

That’s pretty much exactly what the Catholic Church teaches. 

 

Because you said your personal opinion is that they won't go to hell whereas the official stance is that they hope they won't. 

25 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

You can be “non judgemental” as much as you want and still be Catholic.  

I don’t believe they go to hell.  As far as exactly what happens in the after life, I’m not sure anyone has a definitive answer for that.   We can only “hope” and have “faith”.  

Well, giving them to the “mercy of God...means to me that they will most likely be absolved.  My God is a merciful God. 

What is mercyful about not automatically sending innocent babies to heaven but demanding they should have been baptised first, even if that was practically impossible? That sounds like a pretty insanely cruel god. 

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Just now, SoulMonster said:

Because you said your personal opinion is that they won't go to hell whereas the official stance is that they hope they won't. 

Semantics.  

You’re really grasping at straws here, aren’t you?  In typical “Soul Monster” fashion when he has nowhere to go in a conversation. :lol:

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13 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

Semantics.  

You’re really grasping at straws here, aren’t you?  In typical “Soul Monster” fashion when he has nowhere to go in a conversation. :lol:

The stances "I don't think they will go to heaven" and "I hope they won't go to heaven" are not identical. The former means that you don't believe something, the latter means that you hope something. And believing and hoping means different things.

Anyway, so you think that a god who has decided that people born today come with sin inherited from Eve's transgressions millennia ago, and who will not immediately let innocent kids who have done nothing wrong but died before they received baptism reach heaven, is mercyful? How twisted is that?

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1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

The stances "I don't think they will go to heaven" and "I hope they won't go to heaven" are not identical. The former means that you don't believe something, the latter means that you hope something. And believing and hoping means different things.

Anyway, so you think that a god who has decided that people born today come with sin inherited from Eve's transgressions millennia ago, and who will not immediately let innocent kids who have done nothing wrong but died before they received baptism reach heaven, is mercyful? How twisted is that?

Actually, you need to pay better attention to my posts if you wish to speak semantics.  The only time I said a definitive “no” is when asked if they will go to hell.  The church never taught that they would go to hell.  At worst it was limbo.  As far as exactly what happens in the after life, we don’t know but we can hope and have faith.  (God’s mercy)  But personally, I never believed they would go to hell nor is that what the church teaches.  That’s what I wrote.  I’m sorry it confuses you.

Well, of course original sin is what separates man from being without sin. The fall of man is what makes us imperfect beings.  But we are able to be redeemed through Christ.  It’s (prettty much) the entire purpose of the Church. 

Makes perfect sense to me.  Sorry you feel it’s “twisted”. 

Do you feel mankind are perfect beings? 

 

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6 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

Well, of course original sin is what separates man from being without sin. The fall of man is what makes us imperfect beings.  But we are able to be redeemed through Christ.  It’s (prettty much) the entire purpose of the Church. 

Load of old bollocks though isn’t it really? :lol: 

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Just now, Dazey said:

Load of old bollocks though isn’t it really? :lol: 

For non believers, I guess it could appear that way.

 For believers it’s a way of admitting “we are not perfect”.

 

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1 minute ago, Kasanova King said:

For non believers, I guess it could appear that way.

 For believers it’s a way of admitting “we are not perfect”.

 I don’t need religion to admit that I’m not perfect. I shit myself last week. Surely that’s sufficient evidence in itself? :lol: 

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Just now, Dazey said:

 I don’t need religion to admit that I’m not perfect. I shit myself last week. Surely that’s sufficient evidence in itself? :lol: 

Tbh I don’t think that’s even a sin.  (Unless you did it on purpose to offend someone.  :lol:

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2 hours ago, Kasanova King said:

Actually, you need to pay better attention to my posts if you wish to speak semantics.  The only time I said a definitive “no” is when asked if they will go to hell.  

Yeah, well, the official doctrine is not that they definitely won't go to hell, limbo is a temporary place and they "hope" they will eventually be let into heaven.

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2 hours ago, Kasanova King said:

As far as exactly what happens in the after life, we don’t know but we can hope and have faith. 

As you understand, my point here is not to discuss the ridiculousness of a belief in an afterlife, but the fact that you refer to a god who considers babies less deserving of direct admission into heaven than someone who has sinned but confessed, as "merciful". I find nothing merciful in the concept of original sin, where every descendant of a sinner inherits the sin, or in the idea that babies are less deserving of grace than adults, regardless of whether they happened to be able to be baptized or not.

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2 hours ago, Kasanova King said:

Well, of course original sin is what separates man from being without sin. The fall of man is what makes us imperfect beings.  But we are able to be redeemed through Christ.  It’s (prettty much) the entire purpose of the Church. 

It is not the concept that we are sinful that is the problem to me, but the grotesque idea that we inherit sins from our ancestors, and that babies, who have done nothing wrong, because of this inherited sin, are not deemed worthy of immediate entry to heaven, that I find ridiculous. And what is more tragic is that people today, in 2019, actually believe in such stuff yet think that god is merciful.

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2 hours ago, Kasanova King said:

Do you feel mankind are perfect beings? 

No, not at all. We are all born with the capacity to do good and to do bad, to various extents. Some are better than others. Some are worse. But I fail to see how babies, who have done nothing at all, neither good or good, should be exempt from direct access to heaven, not because of the bad stuff they have done, but because of this "original sin" or because they are not "perfect beings". That is basically judging people not because they have done something bad, but because someone else did something bad or because they might do something bad. Yet grown-ups who have done lots of shitty things are okay to enter heaven as long as they just confess and believe and shit.

There is nothing morally upright in this religion. According to it we are born sinners. That's a pretty shitty starting point. And god will judge us as sinners even before we have had a chance to do anything. And he doesn't really care that much about the sins that we actually do, as long as we repent and come back to the fold. So what really matters is just loyalty and subservience.

It is really shitty. Yet millions of people praise that god. And think he is merciful. Brainwashed much? 

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33 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Yeah, well, the official doctrine is not that they definitely won't go to hell, limbo is a temporary place and they "hope" they will eventually be let into heaven.

 

29 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

As you understand, my point here is not to discuss the ridiculousness of a belief in an afterlife, but the fact that you refer to a god who considers babies less deserving of direct admission into heaven than someone who has sinned but confessed, as "merciful". I find nothing merciful in the concept of original sin, where every descendant of a sinner inherits the sin, or in the idea that babies are less deserving of grace than adults, regardless of whether they happened to be able to be baptized or not.

 

27 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

It is not the concept that we are sinful that is the problem to me, but the grotesque idea that we inherit sins from our ancestors, and that babies, who have done nothing wrong, because of this inherited sin, are not deemed worthy of immediate entry to heaven, that I find ridiculous. And what is more tragic is that people today, in 2019, actually believe in such stuff yet think that god is merciful.

 

22 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

No, not at all. We are all born with the capacity to do good and to do bad, to various extents. Some are better than others. Some are worse. But I fail to see how babies, who have done nothing at all, neither good or good, should be exempt from direct access to heaven, not because of the bad stuff they have done, but because of this "original sin" or because they are not "perfect beings". That is basically judging people not because they have done something bad, but because someone else did something bad or because they might do something bad. Yet grown-ups who have done lots of shitty things are okay to enter heaven as long as they just confess and believe and shit.

There is nothing morally upright in this religion. According to it we are born sinners. That's a pretty shitty starting point. And god will judge us as sinners even before we have had a chance to do anything. And he doesn't really care that much about the sins that we actually do, as long as we repent and come back to the fold. So what really matters is just loyalty and subservience.

It is really shitty. Yet millions of people praise that god. And think he is merciful. Brainwashed much? 

Babies will be fine.  I have faith and hope that they will be.  That's the great thing about faith, we don't hang ourselves up on things that (in the end) will most likely work themselves out.  That's what we believe.

 

From a psychological perspective, you seem to have a deep, subconscious want or need for God in your life.  That's probably the reason you post in this thread with such vigor.  I've watched you question, ridicule, laugh at just about every poster who believes in a Higher Power in this thread and on this forum for years.  A normal person, who doesn't have faith, doesn't want it, etc....would simply look over things, ask a  few questions and move on.  Not you though.  You spend so much time and energy trying to criticize those with faith and have done it for years.  Even other atheists on the forum, come by, ask a few questions, some criticize, etc then move on.  But not you. 

The opposite of love is not hate but indifference...and it's pretty obvious, whether you admit it or not, that you are searching for answers....at the very least, on subconscious level.  Good for you. :) 
 

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1 minute ago, Kasanova King said:

Babies will be fine.  I have faith and hope that they will be. 

I know they will, I am not asking you for your opinion :lol: I am talking about your horrific religion.

2 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

From a psychological perspective, you seem to have a deep, subconscious want or need for God in your life. 

Okay, so after biologist and physicist we can now also exclude psychologist as a future career for you :lol:

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4 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

A normal person, who doesn't have faith, doesn't want it, etc....would simply look over things, ask a  few questions and move on.  Not you though. 

Oh, but I am not normal.

Besides, I think religion is a great folly and an anchor round our collective necks and that humanity would do much better without such irrational beliefs.

5 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

The opposite of love is not hate but indifference...and it's pretty obvious, whether you admit it or not, that you are searching for answers....at the very least, on subconscious level.  Good for you. :) 

I am perpetually fascinated by the fact that people in 2019 still believe in religious nonsense. Picture yourself in a bizzarro world where almost everybody except yourself believed in unicorns. Isn't there a chance this would fascinate you, too?

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5 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

 

Okay, so after biologist and physicist we can now also exclude psychologist as a future career for you :lol:

I actually have a degree in Psychology.  :ph34r:

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Oh, but I am not normal.

 

That, we can agree on.  :lol:

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1 minute ago, Kasanova King said:

I actually have a degree in Psychology.  :ph34r:

That, we can agree on.  :lol:

You do!? Oh shit! :lol:

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6 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

 

I am perpetually fascinated by the fact that people in 2019 still believe in religious nonsense. Picture yourself in a bizzarro world where almost everybody except yourself believed in unicorns. Isn't there a chance this would fascinate you, too?

Probably.  I would most likely want to find out more about it, their inner feelings on why they believe in unicorns, etc.  I don't think I would laugh at them and criticize them for it, though.  :shrugs:

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1 minute ago, Kasanova King said:

Probably.  I would most likely want to find out more about it, their inner feelings on why they believe in unicorns, etc.  I don't think I would laugh at them and criticize them for it, though.  :shrugs:

So tell me about your inner feelings that make you believe in unicorns gods, Kasanova?

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2 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

Probably.  I would most likely want to find out more about it, their inner feelings on why they believe in unicorns, etc.  I don't think I would laugh at them and criticize them for it, though.  :shrugs:

Yeah, but the conversation would pretty much go as far as “I believe in unicorns” “Really? Show me a unicorn then!” “Ah, I can’t” “Oh well in that case I don’t believe you.”

And that’s where the debate should really end. :shrugs: 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

So tell me about your inner feelings that make you believe in unicorns gods, Kasanova?

*In God, not "gods". ;)

In the shortest, simplest terms, it feels good to be humble and give credit to a higher power.  At the same time, it's frustrating when I know I failed in areas of faith.  But the hope that believing in God brings, typically makes things better....both in a Spiritual sense and in a very real, physical sense.  I'm far from perfect and I have many things I need to work on but faith seems to make the road more manageable...for me personally, anyway.  

Edited by Kasanova King

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Yeah, but the conversation would pretty much go as far as “I believe in unicorns” “Really? Show me a unicorn then!” “Ah, I can’t” “Oh well in that case I don’t believe you.”

And that’s where the debate should really end. :shrugs: 

I guess I'm more inclined to be "open minded" than some.  At the end of the day, if it makes them happy, who am I to tell them that unicorns don't exist?  As far as I would be concerned, maybe they do and maybe it's me that doesn't see them.  :shrugs:

Edited by Kasanova King

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3 hours ago, Dazey said:

 I don’t need religion to admit that I’m not perfect. I shit myself last week. Surely that’s sufficient evidence in itself? :lol: 

You really do suffer problems with the innards!

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3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You really do suffer problems with the innards!

I’m from the same area and generation as you. Surely you can empathise? :lol: 

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21 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

Probably.  I would most likely want to find out more about it, their inner feelings on why they believe in unicorns, etc.  I don't think I would laugh at them and criticize them for it, though.  :shrugs:

It's not about inner feelings it's about whether they exist or not. If I feel and have faith that unicorns exist is irrelevant. Proof is what we need.

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