double talkin jive mfkr Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Modano09 said: I find it hard to sit on a message board and accuse a band that played 148 well received shows all over the world the last 2 years of being lazy. The majority of people just want to go see a good show and it's a good show. Not everyone is running to the internet to nit pick and complain that Adler wasn't there and they didn't like Axl's hat. ok what about the die hard fans that even believed in the NU GNR era and attended those shows with great angst and even with the revisionism in mind that axl so wanted to bury and then to have the NU GNR era continue, morph into a half classic/nu act and to barely do anything new let alone write anything new for the shows not only has axl milked the main classics but he's now also milked the fuck out of CD in an obsessive manner that is at a cringe worthy level in order to justify his failed era i guarantee that 90% of the people that enjoyed NITL did not attend any of nu gnr era shows a dead horse of concert runs since 2001, if i was axl i would be bored as fuck myself milking the shit out of the tiny catalogue and not even doing it proper justice with the key members that could also bring about the deep cuts from the dead into the light - i would bet money that Axl is not looking forward to the next leg of the tour because even he is bored by the repetition and staleness but hey he's got an entourage to feed it was apparent in the china exchange interview that he was barely motivated to continue with GNR but it's 100% about the bucks and this is exemplified by his weak vocals, whereas some of the only times where he took it to the next level was when he was in the chair and/or when steven showed up or with acdc Edited January 16, 2018 by double talkin jive mfkr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
default_ Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 34 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said: a dead horse of concerts, if i was axl i would be bored as fuck myself milking the shit out of the tiny catalogue and not even doing it proper justice with the key members that could also bring about the deep cuts from the dead into the light - i would bet money that Axl is not looking forward to the next leg of the tour because even he is bored by the repetition and staleness but hey he's got an entourage to feed Prince Axl is bored? Poor baby. From everything we know from the past 20 years whose fault is that? Yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modano09 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 42 minutes ago, tremolo said: I love how you completely avoid the points I’m presenting, and instead focus on low standards to say the band is not lazy, and bring up meaningless crap like Adler not being there or Axl’s hats. Pure gold. Your points are basically that something that's been widely successful and well received shouldn't be because they're not doing it how you think they should even though they're fully capable of doing it that way, because you say so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickS77 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 hour ago, tremolo said: No. Uhm. Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhazUp Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, tremolo said: They have not been bringing their top game to the shows, and that is insulting considering how much they are charging for the tickets. I don’t care if people who attend the shows think it’s the best show they’ve seen in their lives. Once again, I’m not seeing it from a “customer satisfaction” perspective (since to many just having A and S on stage is more than enough, regardless of everything else), but from how the shows have been half-assed considering their skills and what they are actually capable of. However from someone who was actually at shows, I can assure you that is wasn't half assed. I know you keep saying you don't care if people actually going to the shows say one thing, but really - honestly that matters far far more than an armchair assessment on an online forum. Like, I mean people who think it is half assed are entitled to their opinions - but as a music fan, a musician, and a music major I see the tons of effort given the past 2 years and I see it TOTALLY differently than you all in all Edited January 16, 2018 by WhazUp 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhazUp Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 3 hours ago, Modano09 said: Your points are basically that something that's been widely successful and well received shouldn't be because they're not doing it how you think they should even though they're fully capable of doing it that way, because you say so. That seems to be the trend in mindset, "they aren't doing things the way I think they COULD be doing them, so it is wrong and not good" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double talkin jive mfkr Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 32 minutes ago, WhazUp said: That seems to be the trend in mindset, "they aren't doing things the way I think they COULD be doing them, so it is wrong and not good" no you're incorrect - they didn't fully reunite and chose to market it as a reunion where even the tour name of NITL holds truth - a slight jab to those that were hoping to see a full reunion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhazUp Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said: no you're incorrect - they didn't fully reunite and chose to market it as a reunion where even the tour name of NITL holds truth - a slight jab to those that were hoping to see a full reunion I wanted and still want to see a full reunion too, but all in all it doesn't mean what they did was wrong, both from a live POV nor a moral standpoint. They chose to market themselves a certain way, and the people who wanted to see the band in its current form were plentiful according to how the tour went the past couple of years. Good for them for such success, it obviously went very well And excluding the secrecy of the Troubador show, it isn't like they didn't reveal exactly who the band members were going into the tour, I don't see anything wrong with it. Anything else regarding Izzy or Steven not being back full time - well I can't comment on just like any of us because none of us are privy to what happened behind the scenes Edited January 16, 2018 by WhazUp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 I'm not criticising the shows (I've never been) but even its supporters have to accept the fact that it is rather a weird 'reunion'. When Kiss reunited in 1996 they reunited the original 1970s band. When Crue reunited in 2004 it was the 1980s originals. When Sabbath reunited in the 90s it was the 70s band people wanted and not some weird amalgam. The sad thing is they, the Appetite band, are all still alive. The Beatles could've never reunited even if they wanted to after 1980 as John Lennon was assassinated. The Stones could have never reunited their original line-up after Brian Jones's demise in 1969. Thin Lizzy were never truly Thin Lizzy (and criticised as such) without Lynott. Yes The Doors put out a couple of albums post-Morrison but it never really worked without The Lizard King. Appetite era Guns N' Roses, despite the drugs, have the luxury of all being alive and in reasonable health, yet we'll never ever see them. Instead we get some weird reunion-newgnr hybrid. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludurigan Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 26 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: I'm not criticising the shows (I've never been) but even its supporters have to accept the fact that it is rather a weird 'reunion'. When Kiss reunited in 1996 they reunited the original 1970s band. When Crue reunited in 2004 it was the 1980s originals. When Sabbath reunited in the 90s it was the 70s band people wanted and not some weird amalgam. The sad thing is they, the Appetite band, are all still alive. The Beatles could've never reunited even if they wanted to after 1980 as John Lennon was assassinated. The Stones could have never reunited their original line-up after Brian Jones's demise in 1969. Thin Lizzy were never truly Thin Lizzy (and criticised as such) without Lynott. Yes The Doors put out a couple of albums post-Morrison but it never really worked without The Lizard King. Appetite era Guns N' Roses, despite the drugs, have the luxury of all being alive and in reasonable health, yet we'll never ever see them. Instead we get some weird reunion-newgnr hybrid. exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhazUp Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, tremolo said: Why do you have to bring your credentials? They mean absolutely nothing, they don’t make your point any stronger and they are honestly laughable. Sorry, but just that’s just hilarious, authority fallacy, and even worse, you claim to be the authority... get your head out of your own ass and stop patting yourself on the back. Funny thing is with your music major and all your credentials, you have nothing to say about Axl’s vocal performance (in timbre and pitch), and Slash’s lazy take on the CD material. But I guess none of that matters as long as you feel good even if you have to convince yourself of the opposite. Way to go! Not credentials, but perspective. Perspecitve that goes beyond accepting a band is "half-assing" things just because you say so. My only real issue with it all and nothing else is just imposing that sort of irrational objective criteria on things without true perspective. And if you want my thoughts on Axl's vocals or Slash's take - let's talk about it if you really want. PM me or read my thoughts on a non-Izzy/Matt Sorum based thread All I can say is, when it comes to GNR I am very very happy that I don't approach rock bands like certain people do in general 14 minutes ago, tremolo said: No. If they’re gonna do a half-assed job playing that CD material YOU think they are half-assed. Big difference between you thinking they are half assed and them actually being half assed Edited January 16, 2018 by WhazUp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhazUp Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said: I'm not criticising the shows (I've never been) but even its supporters have to accept the fact that it is rather a weird 'reunion'. When Kiss reunited in 1996 they reunited the original 1970s band. When Crue reunited in 2004 it was the 1980s originals. When Sabbath reunited in the 90s it was the 70s band people wanted and not some weird amalgam. The sad thing is they, the Appetite band, are all still alive. The Beatles could've never reunited even if they wanted to after 1980 as John Lennon was assassinated. The Stones could have never reunited their original line-up after Brian Jones's demise in 1969. Thin Lizzy were never truly Thin Lizzy (and criticised as such) without Lynott. Yes The Doors put out a couple of albums post-Morrison but it never really worked without The Lizard King. Appetite era Guns N' Roses, despite the drugs, have the luxury of all being alive and in reasonable health, yet we'll never ever see them. Instead we get some weird reunion-newgnr hybrid. Yeah y'know I would love to see Izzy and Steven there and whatnot. Unfortunately for whatever reason that is only known to those behind closed doors, it isn't happening. However all in all I mean it is like having Dave A. back as the drummer of Pearl Jam - I would love it but I also find great value in what these bands are currently doing and am totally ok with present events Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, WhazUp said: Yeah y'know I would love to see Izzy and Steven there and whatnot. Unfortunately for whatever reason that is only known to those behind closed doors, it isn't happening. However all in all I mean it is like having Dave A. back as the drummer of Pearl Jam - I would love it but I also find great value in what these bands are currently doing and am totally ok with present events It may sound morbid but at some point you are going to stick on the news or internet and one of the Appetite band will have died, and then that would be basically it: chance gone; opportunity lost; boat missed; ship sailed! Right now (classic) Guns N' Roses have the luxury of all being alive and in reasonable health. That is a luxury which will not always exist, and it is a luxury few of the old 'legendary' bands, especially ones which pursued rampant drug use, possess. Edited January 17, 2018 by DieselDaisy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhazUp Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) 31 minutes ago, tremolo said: It’s perspective, as you say. Considering his capabilities, he half-assed the CD material. His take on Sorry comes to mind. I know a big part is the vibe, the excitement of the moment, being there when the light go out and you feel that thrill cause you know your favourite band is taking the stage, and the ecstasy and euphoria of watching them perform... I guess I have been spoiled. I’ve never been to a single NIN show that has been short of amazing, same goes to My Bloody Valentine, Radiohead, Sigur Ros and many others. Impeccable in every aspect: stage, performance, setlist, vibe, etc. So allow me to be disappointed when Axl and co. go on stage and he can barely sing and Slash just noodles without much care for structure or what works for some of those songs. Now, THAT part (performance) depends on the band only. Orher aspects are less strict and depend on the energy between the band and the audience, and I have nothing to say against them in that department: Axl is a good showman, he knows how to get a crowd going, and so does Slash, and they’re good playing that game of feedback with the audience (except for RIR, not sure what happened there, they seemed disengaged). That is probably the biggest part of what makes a concert memorable, the “vibe”. But please, that doesn’t mean other aspects are not important or are not to be considered when you evaluate the quality of a show. So, considering how much they are charging, I expect the band to put more effort and care on those aspects that depend solely on them, and I think that has been lacking, regardless of the intensity and “feel” of the shows they’ve put on. I get what you mean, and I saw NIN a few years ago and it was totally badass by the way - I loved it. I guess in regards to Slash's changing up the solos - or in some cases like TIL doing a completely improvised version every night that I admit can sometimes work better some nights than others - however I have never heard a version of any of the CD solos I consider to be half assed - just personally speaking - not even talking about the shows I was physically at but rather even just based on the recordings and youtube videos or these shows that are out there. All in all I suppose fundamentally we see it totally differently, but honestly even on the less consistently great GNR recordings of the last 2 years I still find myself overall very happy with how the band carried themselves musically. And I am not the type to avoid calling things like they are in terms of an objective point of view regarding pure musical performance, I truly truly feel that way Edited January 17, 2018 by WhazUp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modano09 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 2 hours ago, tremolo said: No. I never said it shouldn’t be successful. Either your reading comprehension is crap or you are blatantly lying. Your post says absolutely nothing about the points I mentioned, you avoid the subject entirely because I guess there’s nothing you can say, but since this is the internet, you have to look like you have the last word. And no, they haven’t proven to be capable of doing it that way, not because I say so, because they just haven’t done it. Yes, Axl can sing better than he does because you say so, Slash could play better because you say so. I mean, maybe Axl's not singing up to your standards because he's 55? Maybe Slash isn't aware that his playing is lazy in your eyes and he should be more creative or whatever your issue is with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double talkin jive mfkr Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 18 minutes ago, Modano09 said: Yes, Axl can sing better than he does because you say so, Slash could play better because you say so. I mean, maybe Axl's not singing up to your standards because he's 55? Maybe Slash isn't aware that his playing is lazy in your eyes and he should be more creative or whatever your issue is with it. i actually don't think Axl's age matters that much - he just needs to not drink during tour and could rise to the level that he did with ACDC, it's apparent that him being his own boss with no real accountability or motivation to go over the top prevents him from taking the performances to the next level im gonna bet axl still has some of his old voice left in him 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derick Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 You guys are missing one of the most important virtues of the AFD lineup and one of the main reasons that made the band so successfull, without exceptions,all of them wanted to be there and play with each other, no one forced them to play together, everything happened naturally, they were all on the same page. I would love to see the AFD lineup again, but under one condition, that all of them want to do this, without exception, without anyone being forced to do things to please fans or to please promoters, businessmen, whatever..That´s what the classic lineup was. Anyway, a lot things about that era can´t be reproduced anymore but this one can because is timeless..So without this condition, I have no interest in. Earlier, someone here mentioned something about loyalty. So, this is my way of being loyal to that lineup. In the past all of them enjoyed and wanted to play together..And that's the way it has to be. And as a hard core fan as I am... I can garantee that I enjoyed every one of those 5 NITLT GIGs that I attended all of those shows were a blast to me because from my point of view, everyone on that stage wanted to be there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratam Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, Derick said: You guys are missing one of the most important virtues of the AFD lineup and one of the main reasons that made the band so successfull, without exceptions,all of them wanted to be there and play with each other, no one forced them to play together, everything happened naturally, they were all on the same page. I would love to see the AFD lineup again, but under one condition, that all of them want to do this, without exception, without anyone being forced to do things to please fans or to please promoters, businessmen, whatever..That´s what the classic lineup was. Anyway, a lot things about that era can´t be reproduced anymore but this one can because is timeless..So without this condition, I have no interest in. Earlier, someone here mentioned something about loyalty. So, this is my way of being loyal to that lineup. In the past all of them enjoyed and wanted to play together..And that's the way it has to be. And as a hard core fan as I am... I can garantee that I enjoyed every one of those 5 NITLT GIGs that I attended all of those shows were a blast to me because from my point of view, everyone on that stage wanted to be there. Out of likes,but 👏👏👏 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modano09 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 7 minutes ago, Derick said: You guys are missing one of the most important virtues of the AFD lineup and one of the main reasons that made the band so successfull, without exceptions,all of them wanted to be there and play with each other, no one forced them to play together, everything happened naturally, they were all on the same page. I would love to see the AFD lineup again, but under one condition, that all of them want to do this, without exception, without anyone being forced to do things to please fans or to please promoters, businessmen, whatever..That´s what the classic lineup was. Anyway, a lot things about that era can´t be reproduced anymore but this one can because is timeless..So without this condition, I have no interest in. Earlier, someone here mentioned something about loyalty. So, this is my way of being loyal to that lineup. In the past all of them enjoyed and wanted to play together..And that's the way it has to be. And as a hard core fan as I am... I can garantee that I enjoyed every one of those 5 NITLT GIGs that I attended all of those shows were a blast to me because from my point of view, everyone on that stage wanted to be there. According to Duff's book they started drifting apart once they had money. I get the romantic notion of them getting back together and playing for the love of it like the good old days but realistically we're dealing with people who drifted apart/grew to resent each other to some degree 30 years ago and it's possible there's going to be some combination of the 5 that just really don't care for each other. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerInThisTown Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) On 16.1.2018 at 2:28 AM, Derick said: Oh, my bad! I admit I hadn´t read his other messages. I had only taken into account his messages on this thread, especially the statements: - "It's all about Slash and Fortus on guitar. They are the entire world wants to see." Because obvious that´s not true. - " nobody needs Izzy to come back." Because Izzy´s fans need. And as you showed me the other messages from him, I correct myself. I don´t think he is a Fortus hater anymore. But hey! So are you asking to block a guy because he states he believes that a current GN´R member "sounds great", "will blow us away on the next album", "is very important in the sound of the band" or is a "Incredible player"? That's it? C´mon! Look, I quite understand that some people around here are extremely frustrated because Izzy is not in the band but to afirm that a guy is a troll and ask to block him because he likes a GNR member and, as a lot of people over here,sometimes shows that admiration in a wrong thread, is ridiculous! P.D.: And I correct myself one more time: People aren´t naive, people are stupid! Why is it so hard to understand that not those posts are the problem, they are the exception, but those like the one I and several other enraged people quoted, that you thought was so ridiculous that it could only be meant ironic? He does plently of those just to piss people off as I already said earlier. I have seen this guy post this shit for over a year now and it's always the same game. Edited January 17, 2018 by StrangerInThisTown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double talkin jive mfkr Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Modano09 said: According to Duff's book they started drifting apart once they had money. I get the romantic notion of them getting back together and playing for the love of it like the good old days but realistically we're dealing with people who drifted apart/grew to resent each other to some degree 30 years ago and it's possible there's going to be some combination of the 5 that just really don't care for each other. thats where the thinking is dead wrong all it would take is a one off show to know that the kick in the nuts that was GNR was never really dead - just temporarily on hold i would like to think that axl slash and duff aren't the ass holes that would prevent that magic from ever happening again Edited January 17, 2018 by double talkin jive mfkr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modano09 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said: thats where the thinking is dead wrong all it would take is a one off show to know that the kick in the nuts that was GNR was never really dead - just temporarily on hold i would like to think that axl slash and duff aren't the ass holes that would prevent that magic from ever happening again My point was that the band broke up 30 years ago because they couldn't all get a long then and they've had little to do with each other personally since then. So it's not some given that the 5 of them get in the same room together and all fall in love again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double talkin jive mfkr Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 15 minutes ago, Modano09 said: My point was that the band broke up 30 years ago because they couldn't all get a long then and they've had little to do with each other personally since then. So it's not some given that the 5 of them get in the same room together and all fall in love again. i think they can pull off at least one show Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modano09 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 1 minute ago, double talkin jive mfkr said: i think they can pull off at least one show They could, and I assume at some point they will. It depends on what the current line-up's plans are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerInThisTown Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, Modano09 said: They could, and I assume at some point they will. It depends on what the current line-up's plans are. It would even be unwise to do it right now in the middle of a tour. How could they possibly top that? Once you go AFD5 everything from there can only be downhill in most fans eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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