Gardening

[cineater]

I know, it's the end of August before you can finally stop a minute to take it all in.

I've been dealing with our problem child, the daylilies.  They take about 16 hours to weed the whole path.  I'm not sure where our lead is on that but they are a mess.  Next year I'm asking for 10 people to adopt 10 daylilies to care for.  Fortunately, I mulched the fuck out of them earlier in the year and those weeds are coming out in half the time.

I forgot I was lining my home beds with a sedum.  I have areas that don't get much sun and wash out in the rain.  Finished doing that this morning, hope it looks good next year and is not going to be something I have to rip out because it is taking over. 

[soon]

Are daylillies known for inviting weeds? No one wants one more chore. But they are beautiful! I might put in some of those edible lillies... tiger maybe?

Just looked up sedum and they are gorgeous! That reminds me that Ive got to get my bulbs sorted. The early fall you mentioned is quickly becoming a reality here.

[cineater]

Daylilies are great and one of the easier plants to grow.  Ours has a location problem.  It floods, it's full sun all day long, it's buggie and there's 103 of them.  Plus the group only blooms for 5 weeks so it's a little boring over there.

Fall is coming our way too and it's looking like a wet one.  I'm taking some cuttings already and we're about ready to start seed collecting.

I've jumped the trains in Europe.  Switzerland was up first.  Strikes me as a very clean country.  Most of Europe I just want to take a power washer to.  Very picturesque, blend of old and modern and precision.  Find it rather perfect and sterile, lol. 

[soon]

12 hours ago, cineater said:

Most of Europe I just want to take a power washer to. 

 

Your couch voyages sound fun!!

Oh the daylillies only bloom 5 weeks so they dont attract as much human attention to weed and stuff. Lots of flies at the garden is so annoying. They are pretty I might have to plant them next year.

My echinacea has formed buds and looks like it wants to bloom which could be a problem if all its energy is in the buds and not the roots when fall fully settles in.

[soon]

Glad I took in my little gardens beauty yesterday because with rains overnight the massive kales are now flattened out, covering all the other plants. It looks gross.

still cautiously optimistic about the lentils maturing. But it’s stressful.

[cineater]

I took the day off, lol.

[soon]

A well earned day off. Does your neighbourhood go all out for labour Day the way they do July 1st?

I didnt go to my big garden but having been skipping days there for a while, anyways.

My catnip bolted so I hope I can save it.

[cineater]

Soon wanted to talk about shade gardening.  The trick is to use the plant's color to brighten up the shade.  Shade plants that flower don't do it for long so it won't be a flower garden.

My yard has mature trees.  I was doing good getting light from all angles until the neighbors fenced me in.  At first they used wooden fences that really made my yard go dark but now one of the neighbors used a white plastic fence and it really gives me a bright background.  The area looks lighter and the plants stand out more.  Recommend you use white fencing.

The trees are the problem feature in shade.  I've raised my canopy to about 20 or 30 feet.  The lowest big branches are that high but the litter branches hang down.  Still it let in brightness and spots of full sun at different times of the day or season.  The tree feeder roots are in the same planting zone (top 12 inches) as the shade plants your trying to grow.  There is going to be competition for root space.  The tree is bigger so it's going to win unless you want to kill your tree by damaging too many of its roots or too much root competition between plants.  You'll notice your shade plants seem to need more water.  That's because the tree is sucking up all the water.  Big trees can suck up to around 100 gallons of water a day.

I like to use plants with little root systems to get ground coverage and fullness in an area.  Your ground covers that send out long vines are good but they can also choke out a baby plant.  If you're going to buy a plant to put in amongst the groundcover, get a big one.  I also like bulbs like Lily of the Valley for their short and not too many roots.  And then there's containers.  I have a pine tree, massive roots under there, sometimes I wonder what happen to the soil there are so many roots.  Nothing grows under there, believe me I tried and am still trying.  I decorate it up with plants in pots on top of the ground or hanging from the limbs.  (I will not be defeated, lol.)

Following along so far?  Any questions?  We'll get into how to use leaf color, size and texture next.  We've got a little time before GNR takes center stage.

Forgot some shit, we may have a few of these edits.

Get plants that don't spread.  If they get out of control, you really don't want to be digging them up and disturbing your tree roots.  If you've already messed up, cut them off at the ground and leave the roots in ground.  You can put cardboard over the area and pile on whole leaves to stop them from coming back.

About the falling tree leaves, great mulch when chopped up.  If you just leave them lay there, they will kill off what's under them if there's enough of them.  At the end of the year, I mow over all my shade gardens with the leaves that have fallen.  I set the mower high so I don't damage the ground cover.  Some plants like the liriope have leaves that protect the crown of the plant and I wait until early spring before I mow off their foliage. 

Edited September 3, 2019 by cineater

[soon]

Wow - so much great info and tips! Thanks cineater! I'll prolly have to loop back to this post lots.

Tress drinking 100 gallons of water a day blows my mind! Given that the plants are under the tress branches does good rain supply a sufficient days water, or do you need to water whether it rains or not? I love the persistence with the hanging pots on the one tree 

Is the white fence reflecting sun light too?

[cineater]

Think of trees as straws into the earth and pulling water from all around them.  I think once they get that pulling/sucking motion going, they can pull it over/up from other areas.  Obviously if they are taking that much water up we'd have to live in swamps for them to be getting it only from the drip line back.  I should research that more.

Sometimes the rain water is blocked by the tree branches and while the rain was enough for the grass and sun plants, my shade plants didn't get enough even though the tree is watered.  But during mid hot summer when it hasn't rained you'll water the shade plants really good and the next day, they are limp again.  It's a good indicator your tree needs water because it didn't leave any water in the soil for the smaller plants for the next day.  Normally I don't water my trees.  I let my grass go dormant in the hot summer sun and don't water it either unless we are in extended drought conditions.  When my smaller shade plants need watering the next day, I start watering twice a day for a while and once a day until I get rain.

Reflected light comes off that fence but I'm not sure if it's in the right light spectrum for plants.  Too far into science but interesting question.

So the daylilies only took around 5 hours to clean up as opposed to the 16 hours when they weren't being mulched.  And this year has been really good for weed growth.

[cineater]

Landscape design is not my area of practical expertise.  I'm a plant junkie, lol.  I bring them home and find a place to plant them.  No real thought to design but I have been given a few tips on the shade areas.  Always an exception to general practice.

Leaf colors are white, cream, yellow, greens in various shades and purple.  Your bright colors lighten up the shade and are the first that draw the eye in.  I like my whites towards the back so you don't look into my neighbor's yard.  Your eye kind of stops on the white.  I like little pops of white around so your eye starts moving around the yard.  You get the whites, creams and yellows in your variegated leaves, sometimes the color is on the edge of the leaf, sometimes the middle and on a few, it takes up most of the leaf.  In the front of the bed I like my yellows.  They don't come out so strong that your eye stops there but it sets it off from the grass.  In the middle I'm putting the different shades of green as it's relaxing.  Mixing that up because two dark shaded plants look like one.  I'm not a fan of the purple.  It just seems to get lost.

Leaf size is fun to play around with.  The really big ones command attention.  I use them on the bend or ends.  In the middle they divide the long bed or in the middle for the round bed.  Little leafs tend to get lost if crowded by larger plants.  Give them space if you want them noticed.

Texture and shape of leaves can add interest.  Some of them have real pronounced veins or a fuzz on the leaves.  You have all kinds of shapes and edges of leaves.  And together they can form shapes that can be compact or spread out, tall or short.  You want something very formal you plant in patterns, kind of ridged to me but it's neat and tidy.  I'm going for cool, calm and relaxing so I'm flowing.  I'm gradually up and down, sharp edges soften by frill and curving.  At least that's where I'm taking the plantings now.

Flowers.  There are shade plants that will give you masses of flowers.  Impatiens come to mind.  I'm not playing with them because they are usually annuals and I'm staying with perennials at the moment.  But I do have flowering plants in there.  They send up small groups of flowers around the place.  Just doesn't look right if you don't have some flowers mixed in.  Since they don't last very long the garden changes throughout the season and I find that interesting.

We'll get into some of the plants next.  Probably what Soon really wanted to know, lol.  It's well worth it though to consider those other things before you go planting, something I did not do.  My yard is not a show place but I'm okay with that.

[soon]

15 hours ago, cineater said:

Think of trees as straws into the earth and pulling water from all around them.  I think once they get that pulling/sucking motion going, they can pull it over/up from other areas.  Obviously if they are taking that much water up we'd have to live in swamps for them to be getting it only from the drip line back.  I should research that more.

Sometimes the rain water is blocked by the tree branches and while the rain was enough for the grass and sun plants, my shade plants didn't get enough even though the tree is watered.  But during mid hot summer when it hasn't rained you'll water the shade plants really good and the next day, they are limp again.  It's a good indicator your tree needs water because it didn't leave any water in the soil for the smaller plants for the next day.  Normally I don't water my trees.  I let my grass go dormant in the hot summer sun and don't water it either unless we are in extended drought conditions.  When my smaller shade plants need watering the next day, I start watering twice a day for a while and once a day until I get rain.

Thats incredible! I know sometimes tress are painted to help secure land/ make it not fall apart. I suppose the trees drinking up all the excess water is important for that. I wonder if there are any plants that tap into the tress roots for their water?

I guess the plants need more water both because they dont get energy from the sun, but rather the water, and they are competing with the huge trees roots? Twice a day is commitment! 

I had designs to grow 4 hazelnut trees. Was even gonna inoculate their roots with black truffles! But now I am seriously reconsidering, lol. Imagine having to water them in a drought?

15 hours ago, cineater said:

Reflected light comes off that fence but I'm not sure if it's in the right light spectrum for plants.  Too far into science but interesting question.

Mind blown yet again!! Right, the light spectrum. I wonder if mirrors would reflect the spectrum (kind of an odd fence of course haha)?

15 hours ago, cineater said:

So the daylilies only took around 5 hours to clean up as opposed to the 16 hours when they weren't being mulched.  And this year has been really good for weed growth.

Thats great to hear! Still 5 hours weeding is work!

I used a possible storm in the forecast to let me have the day off from gardening. No storm yet, but cookies for breakfast was nice 

[cineater]

Think of 100 water molecules holding hands.  The tree is way bigger and is pulling that water line into the tree, as the line goes by the shade plant grabs one.  That's all it needed right now but a little later it goes to get another drink.  Too late, the tree already took the other 99.  It's not that they need more water, it's just what they needed isn't there because the trees didn't leave any behind.  It's probably more like a free for all and the tree has more mouths so it's eating all the water.  The really big roots are for anchoring the tree and food storage.  They don't take up water.

A woman was telling me in this book she read, it said that larger trees can actually feed smaller trees, much like a mother nurses a baby.  Think it was called The Secret Language of Trees.  On my winter reading list.

As it turns out, we go to consult on an abandoned greenhouse, afterwards they want to discuss a problem area.  It's a shaded hillside, lol.  I was just discussing shade plants with you and was off and talking.

[cineater]

Let's do the shade plants.

Love my ferns.  They are just so graceful.  Like the big Ostrich Fern for it's light green.  But they are very fragile and apparently something killed most of mine off this year. 

Hostas, all shapes, sizes and color in leaves.  Everybody has them.  Consider them deer salad.

Liriope other wise known as Monkey grass.  Look like a spider plant without babies.  Little flower stalks that turn into berries.  Some have variegated leaves.  Can be very invasive if you get that kind.

Astilbe are so cute.  Dainty little leaves and bright flower stalks.

Coleus, can't say enough wonder stuff about them.  They can really bring the color, also good in containers you can move around the garden to add a pop of color.

I have Solomon's Seal, Begonias, Arugula ground cover, several plants I don't know their names like that tall yellow green one in the picture.  Goggle shade plants by your zone and you'll get lots of pictures.

I do have spring bulbs that come up before the trees leaf out.  Cool trick if you have animals digging up your bulbs, put them in wire baskets and then bury them.  The plant grows through the wire and the bulb is safe in the cage.

[cineater]

So I've shared over all garden lead for a little while now.  I came in pretty mellow, doing things the way they have always been done.  The whole time making my assessment and more recently,  I've been reading up on how to manage a community garden.  We're as they say, "just okay".  We could be so much more.  I'm going for it. 

First obstacle, they don't believe we are a community garden.   We are one of the many types of community gardens of which we are a demonstration garden.  See I already know more than you.  I've read the book, ahahaha.  Everybody say oh fuck.  And when I suggested monthly garden clean up days were coming, I got but I'm too busy in my own garden.  I know you are but you use the water stations, the tool shed and the amendment bins.  No matter how great your garden looks, if the overall property looks unkempt, your work was for nothing.  Watch their heads bob up and down.  Great idea from the book because we are a community garden, not a group of individual gardens.  Point made, I'm molding them into a team.

[soon]

14 hours ago, cineater said:

Think of 100 water molecules holding hands.  The tree is way bigger and is pulling that water line into the tree, as the line goes by the shade plant grabs one.  That's all it needed right now but a little later it goes to get another drink.  Too late, the tree already took the other 99.  It's not that they need more water, it's just what they needed isn't there because the trees didn't leave any behind.  It's probably more like a free for all and the tree has more mouths so it's eating all the water.  The really big roots are for anchoring the tree and food storage.  They don't take up water.

A woman was telling me in this book she read, it said that larger trees can actually feed smaller trees, much like a mother nurses a baby.  Think it was called The Secret Language of Trees.  On my winter reading list.

As it turns out, we go to consult on an abandoned greenhouse, afterwards they want to discuss a problem area.  It's a shaded hillside, lol.  I was just discussing shade plants with you and was off and talking.

Dang, cineater, you're gonna make a Master Gardener out of me all by yourself! Thanks for all this amazing info. I will need to loop back to so much in these posts.

I get it now about the tree roots and shade plants. That the shade plants dont know better then to drink up all they can when given the chance. They dont have the ability to store water. 

That analogy of the water molecules holding hands really made it click for me. Trees feeding smaller trees?!? Incredible! Might need to read that one too. 

Haha, shade plants must be the talk of town! Too cool.

[cineater]

I got into a discussion with another gardener about the tree because where are they getting 100 gallons a day from?  We have a lot more questions for the tree expert the next time.  Not just going to take in that little fact and move on.

Got the engineer and the construction guys together today on the outdoor classroom.  The more they talked, the bigger my smiled got.  I have the right two guys.  Don't really understand a word they said, lol.  But they were into it!

[soon]

I got ya. I thought we knew it to be true. Maybe trees have the capacity to if need be so that it doesn’t slide away? But doesn’t always drink that much? Will be fun to get to the bottom of!!

Im so excited to hear about the contractors excitement. This is gonna be epic 

back with more thoughts and questions from this awesome thread soon!

ps: a few trees changing colour here, but more to the point, I had to turn my heaters on over night! 

[cineater]

We are going back in the 90's next week, wtf.  The construction guy kept saying, this is a really cool design.  He was so into it.

[cineater]

Damn it!  My sunflowers look like Headless Nick, severed heads.  They were attacked by the sunflower head clipping weevil.

I know how to get the money for the outdoor classroom, fall plant sale!  I'm beginning to think I can move mountains. 

Edited September 7, 2019 by cineater

[soon]

On September 5, 2019 at 12:17 AM, cineater said:

Love my ferns.  They are just so graceful.  Like the big Ostrich Fern for it's light green.  But they are very fragile and apparently something killed most of mine off this year. 

Thats too bad they died off. I fell in love with Where the Red Fern Grows as a child. I still get stirred when I find some in the bush. Id like to have some one day. I guess in that sense our gardens represent a lifetime?

Id imagine most are fairly tough plants though?

On September 5, 2019 at 12:17 AM, cineater said:

Hostas, all shapes, sizes and color in leaves.  Everybody has them.  Consider them deer salad.

Thats certainly true of the lady folk in my family. I know that some varietals have edible shoots. Never tasted it though.

On September 5, 2019 at 12:17 AM, cineater said:

Liriope other wise known as Monkey grass.  Look like a spider plant without babies.  Little flower stalks that turn into berries.  Some have variegated leaves.  Can be very invasive if you get that kind.

^^^ This was the less typical and most showy one I saw on my image search. 

Ive never heard of Monkey Grass before this thread. The ones without flowers have this goofy kind of personality to them, dont they? Like a Star Wars shrub, lol.

Do you grow any of these?

On September 5, 2019 at 12:17 AM, cineater said:

Astilbe are so cute.  Dainty little leaves and bright flower stalks.

These are my favourite! I know you said earlier that shade plants dont usually flower long. Do these guys keep their colour any longer (all the pics had colour!)?

On September 5, 2019 at 12:17 AM, cineater said:

Coleus, can't say enough wonder stuff about them.  They can really bring the color, also good in containers you can move around the garden to add a pop of color.

Right away I can understand why you like them - they are stunning!! Perfect to have the leaves bring so much colour. Look at those patterns!!

See thats so smart, I would have never thought to to move around the colourful plants in containers for where there arent any current blooms. Thats an awesome idea!

On September 5, 2019 at 12:17 AM, cineater said:

I have Solomon's Seal, Begonias, Arugula ground cover, several plants I don't know their names like that tall yellow green one in the picture.  Goggle shade plants by your zone and you'll get lots of pictures.

I do have spring bulbs that come up before the trees leaf out.  Cool trick if you have animals digging up your bulbs, put them in wire baskets and then bury them.  The plant grows through the wire and the bulb is safe in the cage.

I feel like we both should really be growing some scarlet begonias? lol. Is arugula ground cover different from the salad greens? 

Yeah, Im down this google rabbit hole now! Planning two seasons ahead while I still have plenty of work to wrap this season lol

Great tip for the bulbs! I am just fixing to put mine in - will use some sort of wire thing, thanks. Ha, at my garden I should use chain wire 

Edited September 7, 2019 by soon

[cineater]

lol, I took cuttings off the red begonias to winter over.  Suddenly I have a real love for them.   Astilbe are up and gone if you're not watching, just a couple of weeks.  I learned that Coleus from other Master Gardeners (you so need to be one!).  Monkey Grass maybe a local term.  Those flowers turn to berries.  You'll get a good month out of the flowers and berries.

Damn, the plant sale lead grabbed my plant sale idea for the plant sale start up funding.  We've got the money.  I was just wanting to show I didn't need so much money for the outdoor classroom.  Came up with another idea for using it.  We can set up displays in there when we aren't teaching in there.

Kevin signed on for Early Season Vegetables.  9 library classes and that's enough.

I had my first experience telling two people they could not do that and they didn't like it.  Rather than argue with them I told them I would check the rules.  I did, I'm right and I copied them on the rule book.  Think I handled that well but they aren't going to like it, lol.

Edited September 8, 2019 by cineater

[willl]

Went shopping

I must have 500-1000 bulbs that I now need to plant My favourite of the bunch are the Muscari, I've loved them since I was a kid and now they just remind me of those days spent wandering woodlands.

I also bought 200L of woodchip bark to put around the base of my trees. Not really sure how much ground this will cover but I'll find out tomorrow, guessing around 10m2.

[cineater]

Wow that is a lot of bulbs to plant!  It's going to be beautiful.

[soon]

18 hours ago, cineater said:

lol, I took cuttings off the red begonias to winter over.  Suddenly I have a real love for them.   Astilbe are up and gone if you're not watching, just a couple of weeks.  I learned that Coleus from other Master Gardeners (you so need to be one!).  Monkey Grass maybe a local term.  Those flowers turn to berries.  You'll get a good month out of the flowers and berries.

Damn, the plant sale lead grabbed my plant sale idea for the plant sale start up funding.  We've got the money.  I was just wanting to show I didn't need so much money for the outdoor classroom.  Came up with another idea for using it.  We can set up displays in there when we aren't teaching in there.

Kevin signed on for Early Season Vegetables.  9 library classes and that's enough.

I had my first experience telling two people they could not do that and they didn't like it.  Rather than argue with them I told them I would check the rules.  I did, I'm right and I copied them on the rule book.  Think I handled that well but they aren't going to like it, lol.

Nice! Then its just me who needs to get some scarlet begonias  Speaking of "the way she moves" today I saw a climbing bean plant spinning and reaching around looking for something to climb - it was moving so fast and it reached around like 12 inch radius!! So powerful!! Never seen that before. I just checked and its still going - for hours now. Wow!

A month is pretty great for colour from the Coleus. I have shade on my back porch. They are a contender for next year.

I looked into Master Gardener program  Here there are only online courses. Though one school its 3 courses and at another its 4. I would think I need the 4 course program. And then the Master Gardeners place is at the second closet campus to me. Its in a beautiful area that I love taking walks in with wooden bridges over the stream and an arboretum. So thats cool too, right along the locks too. Im still doubting myself, but your encouragement is amazing. Might be a nice winter activity...

This is great how the plant sale, outdoor classroom and library series are going together!! I love the idea of using the classroom for displays between classes.

Sucks to be in that position to correct adults on procedure. Glad you have a sense of humour about it