Popular Post RONIN Posted February 4, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) Knowing in hindsight that Chinese would only get released as a single bloated and overproduced album belatedly in 2008 and that the classic Nu Guns lineup would fall apart by the end of 2002, should Axl have left the industry on a strong note with RIO 3 and leaked Chinese Democracy before the inevitable reunion? Would that have prevented Axl and GnR's name from being tarnished any further? Before some of you grab the pitchforks, hear me out. Circa 1993-1996, Axl Rose was a figure of derision in the media and amongst his peers (and many casual fans). There was much speculation that another GnR album would tank hard in the marketplace. Many bands of that era were trying to reinvent themselves and scrambling for relevance. Whether GnR could have weathered the storm in the mid 90's is anyone's guess, but Axl Rose's public image had taken a battering. He had in many ways hurt the commercial viability of the band due to his controversial image. Between 1997-2001, public perception had changed quite a bit. Axl Rose has become an almost mythical figure in the music industry. Love him/hate him, there is a legendary aura around Rose and Guns N' Roses. His peers, the media, and even casual fans are fascinated by him and the legacy of GnR. Young musicians that are coming up the ranks like Pharrell and Jay-Z name drop Axl. "I still think Axl Rose is one of the biggest rock stars we've ever seen. I would love to sign that guy and put him on the road as a dope-ass acoustic act." - Pharrell 2001 They left the industry on such a strong note and vanished so completely that it left everyone wanting more. People missed them again. Axl was perceived as a rock genius by many in the industry by that time. There was a tremendous amount of speculation and interest in what he was going to release next. In the eyes of the media, GnR and Axl had a larger than life mystique about them - whatever they did next was going to be huge - an event. 1999 was a prime opportunity for a comeback - Spin magazine even releases this: "Spin" magazine celebrates rock's answer to J.D. Salinger in its July issue with a cover story exploring the mystique around the Guns N' Roses recluse." - MTV 1999 The world was waiting with anticipation. But time was running out and the window of opportunity was quickly closing. 1999 eventually becomes 2000. And finally, near the end of 2000, Rose emerges out of his slumber at last. The 2000/2001 Vegas shows rekindle media interest even more culminating with RIR 3. Dave Grohl and the Gallagher brothers are backstage to see Axl take the stage - Grohl reportedly is going nuts in anticipation. The media writes glowing reviews of Rose and the new band. Fans and critics receive the newly debuted songs with great enthusiasm and interest. RIR confirms that Rose is still a relevant and iconic figure in rock. A little out of shape? Perhaps. But still vital. Still talented. Still...dangerous. 2001 was off to a great start. "It's actually fucking genius," raved Noel Gallagher. "It's the most disgusting, brilliant, outrageous thing I've seen in my life." Axl Ignites Rio Festival - Rolling Stone 2001 Plans were in place to tour in Europe over the summer w/ Chinese Democracy releasing later that year. If only Rose had released Chinese Democracy at this point as originally planned in the waning days of nu-metal, industrial rock, and late 90's music trends. Music and the industry were evolving rapidly. From this point onwards, any relaunch of GnR would meet decreased interest. They had missed their moment right here. What was cool and mysterious about GnR and Axl between 1997-2001 had slowly started to become a joke. But there was an outside chance for Axl to recoup some of the lost momentum in 2002. But it wasn't meant to be. Welcome to the bungle: "Axl Rose appears to have pulled a Mickey Rourke and gotten enough plastic surgery to make him look more like a muppet than the sneering GUNS & ROSES frontman we know and love. The reclusive rocker understandably didn't want to, uh, face the press last night at his Video Music Awards after-party at the Old Homestead and barred journalists from attending. That's fine with us. We'd rather remember the way Axl looked when his rugged mug charmed the likes of Stephanie Seymour and countless big-haired groupies." http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/guns-n-roses-perform-at-vmas-axl-rose-shuns-press-amid-plastic-surgery-gone-wrong-reports/ The 2002 VMA's smash the frozen in time image of Rose - and suddenly, he doesn't seem so vital or relevant anymore. He's once again a source of derision - a punchline. The aborted tour all but kills Rose's credibility for good and ends the new band in the eyes of the media. MTV speculates that Nu Guns is finished. People are still interested. But now, Axl and nuGnR become more a "cult"/underground act - their mainstream comeback derailed catastrophically. Whatever mystique and interest there was in Chinese Democracy has taken a significant hit. The world has collectively started to move on. Reunion cries become deafening around this point as Slash and Duff resurface on the radar w/ VR in 2003. People want to see the original GNR onstage again. So here's a what if scenario: What if after Axl missed the 1999-2001 release dates for Chinese Democracy, he left the scene completely? Or what if in 2002, after essentially ending his comeback disastrously w/ his nu-band on life support, he vanishes? Should his camp have leaked the Chinese Democracy demos instead of releasing it to virtual apathy in 2008? Yeah - I know, Interscope invested money but their execs knew that the album was going to tank after 2006 and commercial prospects were diminishing fast after 2001. GnR was their cash cow - and to protect the brand from being tarnished, taking a 13 or 14 million dollar loss is not a big deal - especially if it meant that Axl would reunite with the old band and fulfill their contractual obligations as Interscope wanted all along. Axl could have strung them along for as long as he wanted since the album production costs were on his dime after 2003. Like Prince, who has a vault full of unreleased albums, he could have just shelved the entire project (which he allegedly did to the rumored Chinese Democracy II and III). Imagine if Axl didn't release Chinese Democracy and basically vanished from the scene after RIR 3. The demos leak at the end of 2001 - you get the original version of Madagascar, the Brian May Catcher in the Rye, stripped down versions of all the other songs. No bloated album that becomes divisive w/ fans and tarnishes the brand. And the next time you hear from Axl is in 2006 or 2016 - with Slash/Duff by his side. There's no failed 2002 tour and VMAs, no Bumblefoot/Ashba, no Bridge School and FAT AXL - no bloated Axl w/ pedo mustache and pimp cane hanging out with Nicolas Cage. No flying blinged out pianos. No Liberace Axl doing Vegas dates with some d-grade cover band. Imagine your last image of Rose before the reunion is the Axl of 2001 - older, maybe a bit weathered vocally and physically, but still Axl. The dangerous, unpredictable talent who briefly came back for one big live show and played in front of 200 thousand people in Rio before vanishing out of sight again - to tinker on his masterpiece in seclusion. I think he would be viewed so differently had the last 15 years or so before the reunion not happened. The late 90's democracy era had already turned him into a mythic figure with the public and his peers. Perception was so strong that Axl's album was a masterpiece in the making, he never even had to release it. And he had proven his naysayers wrong with the strong Vegas shows and Rio - he was still rock royalty that could seize his crown back at will whenever he chose to. Everyone else like Oasis and The foo fighters were just keeping his rock throne warm until he returned. There was nothing left to prove by 2001. "For something like 15 years now, Axl Rose hasn't existed in the music industry so much as he's haunted it. He's been the creepy old guy with the goatee and the Raiders jersey who lives in the mansion on top of the hill. A spook story. A cornrowed specter. You never really knew if Axl was real or not, but you definitely believed in him — you could feel his presence every time rock music would get dragged through the mud, or whenever Britney Spears would notch another #1 album on her bejeweled belt. You had a fearful faith in him, a knowledge that he was out there, watching, waiting, working on something big. That something big was — as it always was — which I'm pretty sure you're aware will finally arrive in stores November 23. To say that it is the decade's most-anticipated album is perhaps a disservice to the phrase "most-anticipated," and not only because it's been in the works for more than a decade now, features more musicians than a Zappa record and has reportedly cost something north of $13 million to make. No, Rose himself — the man, the myth, the mystery — has had more than a bit to do with all the hyperbole surrounding the album, if only because he's remained persona non grata for most of its creation." http://www.mtv.com/news/1599694/axl-roses-most-amazing-mtv-moments-in-bigger-than-the-sound/ Heck, imagine even that Axl leaves the scene after that bizarre, entertaining, riot filled trainwreck that was the 2002 tour. Unmistakably GnR style - chaos and destruction till the end. How differently would public perception be of Axl and GnR? In some odd way, it would have been true to the original spirit of GnR and maintained Axl's integrity - even if the Chinese Democracy project had collapsed. The album would have just continued to maintain its mythic reputation. Releasing Chinese Democracy put a name/face to the failure. A physical product that sort of crystallized the embarrassing legacy of that era - something that leaking demos would have avoided. The band's legacy I'd argue wouldn't have taken as big of a hit as it did with the sideshow from 2006-2015 which I think did far more damage than 2002 in retrospect. Someone brought up the Emperor's new clothes analogy in the "Why is CD hated" thread and I think that's a great summation of this era. I feel like Chinese Democracy and anything post-2001 sort of "exposed" Axl and hurt his credibility as an artist/frontman. It sort of undid a lot of the legendary aura of 87-93. Almost like how a bad sequel spoils how you feel about a franchise full of great movies. The Terminator series was mythic and legendary until Terminator 3. And I feel like that's what Chinese Democracy did to Axl. It was the Terminator 3, The Indiana Jones 4 of GnR albums. Solid but unremarkable. Nowhere near the level Axl/GnR were once at. It made him mortal again after he'd been immortalized as a rock god after AFD and Illusions. Chinese Democracy between 1997-2001 sort of mythologized Axl as an auteur, an artist. I wish he had left it alone after that. It served its purpose. Maybe if he had dropped a triple album in 2001 and made a grand entrance as he had hoped, things would have been different. But it didn't turn out that way. Everything that happened afterwards until 2016 has tarnished his image, credibility, and integrity unfortunately. “Here’s my pot shot about Chinese Democracy. Axl made two huge mistakes. One was releasing it and the other was Irving Azoff.” “If I’d been in a responsible position to advise and counsel Axl, I would have done everything in my power to make sure that Chinese Democracy was something that people always talked about and wondered about, but never actually got to completely hear, that it would never be actually released. Recording went on for so long that there was no way in hell that the record he was putting together was going to meet expectations. The minute it was released Mitch it became just one more record. Before its release it was a myth. It was fascinating. People talked about it. People wanted to hear it. The third mistake was that he should have made sure to keep all his tapes and all his discs under his wing and under his lock and key, so, that there wouldn’t have been any leaks. Then he could have released the occasional track and he could have worked them 'live' for another ten years. That would have been more mysterious, more engaging, more fascinating…” "The myth would always be greater than the actual album. If Axl had gone out and toured when he needed to he could have played the occasional song from it live. There would have been a process there for him… the immediacy of performance really sharpens up a musical statement and releasing the whole album was a mistake. I think the release was done purely based on financial reasons. And Irving wanted to get it out of the way because he wanted the reunion. I doubt he was motivated to see it successful. He essentially got paid for it's release, not it's subsequent performance and the deal with Best Buy was set up that way. Going with Best Buy narrowed the market reach - Wal Mart would have been a better exclusive - they have a deeper reach into secondary and tertiary markets - but best of all would have been to let everyone have it. There is a sense that the deal was designed to maximize the immediate take - to grab that and run to the next point of agenda - a re-union. I don’t think Irving ever understood the unlikelihood of that reunion ever taking place and how deep feelings run.”" - Alan Niven http://bravewords.com/features/industry-vet-alan-niven-working-with-guns-n-roses-great-white-in-exclusive-bravewords-com-interview Edited February 4, 2018 by RONIN 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlterL Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 No thanks. First of all, while I would have loved to have many more albums out by now, I wouldn't want to miss the one we have, plus there were plenty of enjoyable shows during those years and I don't think Axl would have even reunited with Slash/Duff had he gone underground again. About "legacy" and other bullshit stuff, those things are just that... Bullshit. If I could change one thing and one thing only is the number of albums released by GN'R during those years. I don't like the concept of Guns disappearing again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Order of Nine Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, AlterL said: No thanks. First of all, while I would have loved to have many more albums out by now, I wouldn't want to miss the one we have, plus there were plenty of enjoyable shows during those years and I don't think Axl would have even reunited with Slash/Duff had he gone underground again. About "legacy" and other bullshit stuff, those things are just that... Bullshit. If I could change one thing and one thing only is the number of albums released by GN'R during those years. I don't like the concept of Guns disappearing again. Agreed. And I'm in the minority that thinks he didn't tarnish anything, imho it shows he has balls and tenacity, and he didn't compromise for anyone. That's about the most RnR/punk rock thing any mainstream artist has done in decades. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gibson87 Posted February 4, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) I'm going to get ripped apart by the AFD purists, but I don't think CD tarnished the band's name. It's a great record and I thoroughly enjoyed seeing the Chinese songs played on this tour. As @Order of Nine mentioned as well, it really showed where Axl's artistic integrity was. He believed in the record and didn't compromise shit Oh, btw. Fortus>>>>>>>Izzy Edited February 4, 2018 by Gibson_Guy87 3 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom2112 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 No, history is history. Also the release of CD and the reaction is all bring reflected in the the reunion. The release of CD was definitely not widely accepted, but it was hardly completely unaccepted, this forum in itself is a example of that. There are people who love it, and there are people who absolutely hate the record. The reasons for both are far reaching - everything from loving the grandiose arrangements, hating the grandiose arrangements to loving the new band or blaming the new band for preventing the return of the old band... And many, many more reasons. The current success is entirely dependent on the 1999-2014 era gnr, people are now egstatic about gnr because of everything that went on in the in-between years. And the main reason besides people not liking what happened in the in-between years is the return of Slash. My hunch is that CD with Slash would not have got as harsh a reaction, and say what you want but I've looked at this board for years and the transformation of opinion in the last 2 years towards CD says it all. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RONIN Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Order of Nine said: Agreed. And I'm in the minority that thinks he didn't tarnish anything, imho it shows he has balls and tenacity, and he didn't compromise for anyone. That's about the most RnR/punk rock thing any mainstream artist has done in decades. If you're talking about 1997-2001, I'd agree with you. Absolutely. Even 2002 - sure. But everything after that, for me anyway, felt like Axl had become a legacy act - no longer an artist w/ relevance. I didn't see anything punk rock about touring 30 year old songs endlessly in his new Gucci threads. Yeah, in 2006, Axl was in great form but to me, he felt more like a performer just going through the motions - choreographed and scripted. And the lineup changes just made it feel even more corporate and cover band-ish. It didn't feel like a band anymore. Just Axl hiring a bunch of randoms to tour every few years so that he could replenish his bank account quick. The guys in 2001/2002 actually felt like a band. There was a level of integrity in those 2001/2002 shows, despite the trainwreck aspect, that felt genuine. The last time Axl Rose seemed like the Axl of old imho: Edited February 4, 2018 by RONIN 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Order of Nine Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 minute ago, RONIN said: If you're talking about 1997-2001, I'd agree with you. Absolutely. Even 2002 - sure. But everything after that, for me anyway, felt like Axl had become a legacy act - no longer an artist w/ relevance. I didn't see anything punk rock about touring 30 year old songs endlessly in his new Gucci threads. And the lineup changes just made it feel even more corporate and cover band-ish. Say what you will, the guys in 2001/2002 actually felt like a band. There was a level of integrity in those 2002 shows, despite the trainwreck aspect, that felt genuine. It was punk of him to say F#@& you to the industry and not to buckle under all the pressure and demands. It was punk of him to take the music in new direction that he knew would largely not be embraced by diehard 80s nostalgic mullet/metal fans. It would have been much easier for him to just do a solo album, no real pressure no real demand or expectations. And I think it was wise of him to use the GNR name to fund the recording of that album. The attitude behind his motives is very punk rock, of course his musical direction contradicts that, but his constant push against the grain is something that I find criminally over looked, and misunderstood. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludurigan Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 i am still waiting for the reunion! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnfnrs1972 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Sometimes you have to fall before you learn a lesson. I think playing half filled arenas in the USA did him some good. Half filled arenas to pretty full stadiums has shown him how important Slash is to the brand. I hope it showed him that having all the responsibility on himself wasn't as great as he thought it would be. Maybe the next album should be called GUNS N ROSES DEMOCRACY. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Order of Nine Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 23 minutes ago, gnfnrs1972 said: Sometimes you have to fall before you learn a lesson. I think playing half filled arenas in the USA did him some good. Half filled arenas to pretty full stadiums has shown him how important Slash is to the brand. I hope it showed him that having all the responsibility on himself wasn't as great as he thought it would be. Maybe the next album should be called GUNS N ROSES DEMOCRACY. If it was about playing arenas vs stadiums he would have jumped back with Slash after that first tour in 2002. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Ooooh, lol, if we all had the crystal ball ... I would definitely not be here! Excellent post @RONIN Let's see....... Disappearing from 2001 until 2016? Nope. Such amount of time feels like retirement and people would have been way more shocked of seeing him returning old as fuck. I mean, the bridge is too long. Idealistically, the best scenario would have been releasing CD in 1999-2000, because that was the right era for that album, then begin tour with RIR included and finish around 2002. After that, I have no idea if he should have kept releasing albums. That whole frame of time would have depended a lot on the success of CD, the tour, the lineup staying the same, etc. If shelving CD would have been the plan, then his return with reunited GNR should have happened no longer than 2006. That would have been the perfect year and time. He wasn't that old and still had many years to rebuild the band and project a future. I agree with you that everything that happened after 2002 was really bad, wasted time, wasted energy, wasted voice and wasted talent. I'm not even sure Axl was considered all that great and powerful after RIR. There were tons of die-hard disappointed to the bone, unhappy with Axl's look and with that whole band of freaks, after seeing them play in Rio. Knowing now what CD really is, I wouldn't have minded to have never hear it. I would have preferred a GNR reunion 12 years ago and the chance of at least 2 real GN'R albums released since then. However, I don't think the album itself is what tarnished Axl's reputation and mystic. What damaged him as an artist was the extreme hatred he felt for Slash, the years and years of eating and spitting venom, of doing things with the sole purpose of winning a stupid battle and being stubborn with making an album that didn't live up to any expectations and that was soon forgotten. His inability to transcend his darkest emotions and act with intelligence regarding his own career is what destroyed him. If being punk means putting yourself in the darkest place of your soul, where several times you were found by your assistants crying in bed while holding a gun, then are we saying being suicidal is punk? Oh lord, paleeeeese 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IncitingChaos Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 There was a lot Axl could have done to stay relevant after 2001. Acoustic gig Axl would have been incredible haha but what’s done is done and to someone’s point above the last time we’ve seen Axl the way we admire him wouldn’t be 2001. I think he’s shown flashes of his former self throughout the years. I’d say 09’s return brought a change in Axl. He seemed to have that edge back. The most recent gigs with Slash and Duff is a completely new Axl. Mainly what we saw with acdc and how he came into that role. He’s a totally new guy at the moment and 01 at Rio you could tell there was a lot of hurt, anger and pain still in him based on his speeches with the crowd that night. I think 01 Axl was as lost as he’s ever been and 2016 Axl is just the opposite. He’s in a great place at the moment. I will say that if he disappeared from 94-06 and returned with Slash and Duff in that form that may have brought about the most thrilling return and Best results/shows. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnfnrs1972 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Order of Nine said: If it was about playing arenas vs stadiums he would have jumped back with Slash after that first tour in 2002. Your missing my point. It was about the whole time period without Slash. In the USA the new GNR versions were never accepted very well. Slash is equal to Axl in GNR. He is irreplaceable. When Axl runs off stage during a long solo Slash needs to be there to hold most of the audience attention. The other 4 guitarist were good or great players but they dont have that IT factor. They are not icons to a large group of rock fans. Axl was so full of his self that he thought that he was GNR. But it takes 2 baby, then every other classic member after that is a bonus but not necessary. If you think it didn't bother Axl to play arenas where the upper decks were curtained off and still looked a little empty after that I say HA, yeah right. People yelling Where is Slash. HE'S IN MY ASS THATS WHERE. Nah it didnt bother him, uh huh. Slash was on his mind all the time because he new his importance and no one else would let him forget about him either. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F*ck Fear Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 It would have made the 2016 reunion even bigger than it's been. However, I do not like that idea one bit. Some of my favorite moments in Guns N' Roses history come from the 'NuGuns' era. Needless to say, other than the lack of new material over the years, and the ticket prices now, I'm happy with the way things have turned out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhazUp Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 I mean all in all I am glad I at least got to see Axl live in 2011 and 2012 so I would say I am glad he didn't retire up until a reunion. And for all the faults of the nuGNR era, I would rather that than nothing for years and years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamillos Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 TLDR + 2 fake pics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stress Fracture Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) The Chinese Democracy era and all its faults are now part of the GNR legacy. Unfortunately, that includes the delays and the fact that when it came out there was no band left to promote it. A complete mess. It hasn’t tarnished the GNR brand because that was built on being dysfunctional, it’ll just be remembered as the episode where Axl completely lost the plot and went mad. Whether that’s actually true or not, it’s still marketable! The making of that album will make a classic documenatary one day if Axl allows it. But with the benefit of hindsight, we can say that 2010-2015 were years completely wasted. For Axl, anyway. Not for Slash. I think Slash can be pretty satisfied with how his career has gone. He’s bigger than ever and didn’t have to share his reunion loot with his ex. There’s also that bittersweet feeling that they left it too late, that in 2006-2010 it would have been so much better and that they still can’t get all five of them onstage together. That in itself is unfortunately very GNR, the way it’s meant to be. This isn’t quite the happy ending they could have given themselves. It’s just another what if. It’s what keeps us talking about this band. ’You wanted the best. Well, they didn’t make it. So here’s what you get.’ Edited February 4, 2018 by Stress Fracture 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) Nice work @RONIN as always (outta likes). There should be a sub-section in the forum for lengthier opinion pieces or feature articles if you will, that members post from time to time. I really enjoy reading them. Also, a reference section for all the interviews/articles that have been collected but get buried in the threads. It'd be nice to have them to hand when everyone is engaged in some heated debate. ^^ Anyway, you know how much I love that album, but I agree the name was tarnished, there's no escaping the fact. Even among casual fans who don't know about all the GNR baggage, it's all a bit, huh? Chinese What? He did what? When? Oh. Never heard of it. Chinese Democracy, I am sorry to say, did not set the world alight. I hate that it didn't, but it didn't. Your question hinges on the notion that it's a bad thing to have your name tarnished. Only if it stays tarnished. I would argue what's happening now - redeeming the name - is much more enticing, interesting and as @Stress Fracture mentions, marketable, than had he simply vanished for a large chunk of his life, name in tact, and remerged newly reunited with Slash and Duff. Now what you have is the rise and fall and rise of Axl Rose and Guns N' Roses. Who doesn't love a comeback story, right? Someone here already mentioned Axl having to hit rock bottom before he could start the climb back up (I think the same goes for Slash and Duff in a way...both seem very much at home in the current stadium environment as opposed to pokey venues. Money is alluring, but so too, is being adored by millions). So no, it wouldn’t necessarily have been better had he disappeared and not put a foot wrong. He's made mistakes, big ones, but I think that's all behind him now. I have a hunch this comeback is just the beginning. For whatever reason, fronting AC/DC seems to have been the making of Axl Rose, and hopefully, whatever he does in the future with the GNR name will finally win him recognition. Edited February 4, 2018 by MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Order of Nine Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 6 hours ago, gnfnrs1972 said: Your missing my point. It was about the whole time period without Slash. In the USA the new GNR versions were never accepted very well. Slash is equal to Axl in GNR. He is irreplaceable. When Axl runs off stage during a long solo Slash needs to be there to hold most of the audience attention. The other 4 guitarist were good or great players but they dont have that IT factor. They are not icons to a large group of rock fans. Axl was so full of his self that he thought that he was GNR. But it takes 2 baby, then every other classic member after that is a bonus but not necessary. If you think it didn't bother Axl to play arenas where the upper decks were curtained off and still looked a little empty after that I say HA, yeah right. People yelling Where is Slash. HE'S IN MY ASS THATS WHERE. Nah it didnt bother him, uh huh. Slash was on his mind all the time because he new his importance and no one else would let him forget about him either. So he talks back to a heckler.. big deal. His actions clearly don't match up with what your suggesting for almost 14 years. If it was only about playing stadiums and money then this would have transpired a long time ago. Have you heard Steven Tyler's interview on Stern? The problems we're deep and personal. Not having "icons" in the same band is something that I think he took pride in, giving a new group of players a spotlight. If your out to promote something you believe in and can stand behind it with conviction then the whole stadium vs arena thing becomes irrelevant. If Axl only did the above for a short period of time then of course that would hold more weight to your claims above. This is not the case, he went completely against the grain. Imo he tarnish anything, that was the most RnR/punk thing anyone has done in the past 20 years in mainstream rock, and it was against odds stacked against him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Indeed. Chinese Democracy was never more interesting than when it consisted of a mysterious recording hidden away in the vault, being overdubbed-on sporadically by Axl Rose in the guise of a mad professor. That album was a masterpiece when it existed solely as myth, fable, rumour, speculation. The worst mistake Rose ever did was releasing Chinese Democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Really interesting thoughts, @RONIN. I think this alternate history would have a lot of positives. I would add to it that if Rose just vanished in 01-02 that we'd now be looking back at how Slash and the gang maintained the legacy until 2016. And that conversation, I suspect, would be uncomfortable to some degree. For me I was really let down when I saw VR on Contraband tour because Slash was so messed up he wasn't playing most of the songs (it was in its way amazing to see him snap out of a nod, nail the solo, and then slouch back against his amp). I would imagine things like that would be much more scrutinized - that Slash rather then Axl could be the scapegoat for fan frustrations? But back to this alternate history. Going out still as the Axl we knew and on top f the world in 2001 would've been ace. I really love CD though. So thats a tough one for me. Because in that regards I still hold some mystique around the remaining unreleased tracks. The Niven approach would be cool with me so long as the leaks were of high quality. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
life_247 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 CD would of been very differently recieved in 2001 - a name like Guns would of pulled the (imo) better more experimental side of the nu/industrial metal scene (rather than the limp bizkit/pap roach rap metal - Honorable mention to Rage Against the Machine nailing it) to the fore. I feel it could of pushed music in general in a very different direction in terms of popular rock music. Instead it released in 2008 at the height of the indie/alt/garage rock scene and just made no sense at all - the stream of popular music was moving to put electronic & dance into guitar bands and starting the move towards the extreme minimalism we have today. Instead we had a industrial rock album that had an extreme amount of layering that was going up against other bands that were moving to record with as little embelishment as possible (The garage rock & indie bands like Kings of Leon - the best example came a few years later with Foo Fighters wasting light recorded in a garage). It was a record completly out of its place in time - I know that isn't always a bad thing but I feel its unique stylings would of translated so much better in 1999-2002. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sosso Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 14 hours ago, ludurigan said: i am still waiting for the reunion! Me too 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom2112 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 15 hours ago, ludurigan said: i am still waiting for the reunion! Grab a comfy seat😉 Also where's the 🍿? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double talkin jive mfkr Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) i enjoyed the 2002 show i saw and the 2012 london show only really because they had deep cuts like think about you and 14 years only for those reasons there is a lot of empty wasted time from 2006-2009 - not until japan don't cry and duff's appearance then izzy's - was beyond stale for gnr as a whole as soon as bumblefoot frank and ashba came on the scene the brand and sound went took a total nose dive the 2002 band at least sounded really fucking good live and even the CD era songs sounded 10 times better Edited February 4, 2018 by double talkin jive mfkr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.