Sony SUCKS!!!

[downzy]

1 minute ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

Which I don't remember if this is true or not. Even though (outside of Sonic CD) this system was awful. Reguardless, this only proves how a head of everyone else Sega was!!!

Maybe, if the Dreamcast actually had internal data storage.  

[Iron MikeyJ]

1 minute ago, downzy said:

What exactly is your definition of modern sports gaming?  

Moreover, how did 2K perfect football in a way that EA could never do?  How did 2K change the landscape when others were already utilizing 3D modelling tech?  

My first reaction to seeing 2K Football was that they finally are competing with what EA is doing on PCs.  

FIFA is still, and has been for a very long time, the biggest selling soccer/football game.  The franchise has sold over 100 million copies, with FIFA 2018 selling over ten million copies in three months.   Not sure how you say that EA lost soccer?  

I like You IM, but you keep making statements that don't hold up to actual facts or scrutiny.  It's not that I go looking for ways to argue with you, but when you state that PS2 only did well because of its inclusion of DVD player, that the Dreamcast was the first console with internal storage, or that the FIFA soccer series is now considered second tier, it makes it very hard to agree with your overall sentiment.  

This WHOLE thread is just MY opinion, yes I have brought in some facts to further that opinion, but I don't claim it to be 100% factual. I follow and watch A LOT of classic/retro gamers on YT, and many of them echo these sentiments. So im not THE ONLY ONE. Im going to address all of your points.

1. I personally define modern sports gaming when things "switched" from being more NES like to being more what we currently have. Nothing that happened in the 90s before the Dreamcast (which I believe came out in 99) would I put in the "modern" category. Even games on the N64 and PS1 had more in common with Techmo Bowl (for example) than Madden 2018. NBA 2k for the Dreamcast IS the game where that change started, at least on consoles. What was happening on PC, IDK. Perhaps you have a point there. But I'm not talking about Pc's, I'm talking about CONSOLES in this entire thread. 

2. Before 2K football, I would STILL compare Madden of that same year to being closer to Techmo Bowl than to Madden 2018. I even had a couple of DIE hard Madden fans at that time even "almost" admit that NFL 2k was BETTER than their beloved Madden. It just captured the "feel" of the game better. Even though Madden had been out for years, 2K brought a different perspective to the sport. Which only helped improve Madden, that's when EA really started adding a lot of new features to that series. Before that it was just, here's the new game, slightly better than the last with updated rosters. Madden 64 was the ONLY EA game that could possibly considered a "modern sports game" by EA, BEFORE 2K came along imo. 

3. As for FIFA, I personally like that series and don't have any issues with it. I admittedly am NOT a huge soccer fan, so I don't keep up with it very much. Having said that, I HAVE heard from multiple hard core fans that Pro Evolution is better. I've never played it, so I can't speak on it, just going by what I've heard. I have no idea about sales, but FIFA probably sells more, but that doesn't mean it's better. If sales equal "best" than Thriller is the best album ever? Correct?

4. I didn't say the Dreamcast was THE first system with internal storage, I said The Saturn was. Which again, Sega had a system in 1995 that didn't need a memory card. Was or was not the PS3 the first system by Sony to offer that?

[bucketfoot]

1 hour ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

Ya Resident Evil WAS a game changer, that's for sure. The definitive version is the GameCube version though.

Correct. They actually improved on the original. Fantastic remake.

[Iron MikeyJ]

1 minute ago, bucketfoot said:

Correct. They actually improved on the original. Fantastic remake.

I always felt like it was one of system sellers for the GameCube.  It STILL holds up remarkably well today. My biggest complaint is the controls. They feel a little clunky compared to modern games. The graphics are STILL stellar though. 

Edited February 21, 2018 by Iron MikeyJ

[bucketfoot]

Just now, Iron MikeyJ said:

I always felt like it was one of system sellers for the GameCube. 

Definitely. The graphics still look amazing today, especially with the HD remakes that have been released. It's a masterpiece, really. Zero is outstanding as well.

[Iron MikeyJ]

1 minute ago, bucketfoot said:

Definitely. The graphics still look amazing today, especially with the HD remakes that have been released. It's a masterpiece, really. Zero is outstanding as well.

Agreed. I just wish the HD cables for the GameCube didn't cost an arm and a leg.

[bucketfoot]

10 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

Agreed. I just wish the HD cables for the GameCube didn't cost an arm and a leg.

Strange little machine the Gamecube, I was never a massive fan of it (wasn't keen on those tiny discs either) but no doubt it had some absolute classics, particularly the Resi games and Eternal Darkness, in fact I'd put it just behind PS2 in terms of it's library of survival horror games.

[Iron MikeyJ]

8 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

Strange little machine the Gamecube, I was never a massive fan of it (wasn't keen on those tiny discs either) but no doubt it had some absolute classics, particularly the Resi games and Eternal Darkness, in fact I'd put it just behind PS2 in terms of it's library of survival horror games.

Ya, going with tiny discs was a mistake. It was Nintendo saying "we ONLY do video games." Nintendo has ALWAYS tried to make their machines have 5 year old playability. Which is admirable imo, but not always realistic. But what's under the hood of the machine is actually SUPERIOR than what the PS2 had. Xbox was the winner that reguard though. 

[downzy]

8 hours ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

This WHOLE thread is just MY opinion, yes I have brought in some facts to further that opinion, but I don't claim it to be 100% factual. I follow and watch A LOT of classic/retro gamers on YT, and many of them echo these sentiments. So im not THE ONLY ONE. Im going to address all of your points.

1. I personally define modern sports gaming when things "switched" from being more NES like to being more what we currently have. Nothing that happened in the 90s before the Dreamcast (which I believe came out in 99) would I put in the "modern" category. Even games on the N64 and PS1 had more in common with Techmo Bowl (for example) than Madden 2018. NBA 2k for the Dreamcast IS the game where that change started, at least on consoles. What was happening on PC, IDK. Perhaps you have a point there. But I'm not talking about Pc's, I'm talking about CONSOLES in this entire thread. 

2. Before 2K football, I would STILL compare Madden of that same year to being closer to Techmo Bowl than to Madden 2018. I even had a couple of DIE hard Madden fans at that time even "almost" admit that NFL 2k was BETTER than their beloved Madden. It just captured the "feel" of the game better. Even though Madden had been out for years, 2K brought a different perspective to the sport. Which only helped improve Madden, that's when EA really started adding a lot of new features to that series. Before that it was just, here's the new game, slightly better than the last with updated rosters. Madden 64 was the ONLY EA game that could possibly considered a "modern sports game" by EA, BEFORE 2K came along imo. 

3. As for FIFA, I personally like that series and don't have any issues with it. I admittedly am NOT a huge soccer fan, so I don't keep up with it very much. Having said that, I HAVE heard from multiple hard core fans that Pro Evolution is better. I've never played it, so I can't speak on it, just going by what I've heard. I have no idea about sales, but FIFA probably sells more, but that doesn't mean it's better. If sales equal "best" than Thriller is the best album ever? Correct?

4. I didn't say the Dreamcast was THE first system with internal storage, I said The Saturn was. Which again, Sega had a system in 1995 that didn't need a memory card. Was or was not the PS3 the first system by Sony to offer that?

I would check out what EA Sports and other publishers were doing on PCs.  A lot of the 3D modelling, simulation, and other aspects brought later into console gaming were already present in PC sports games thanks to PCs being more powerful and capable of handling the demands.  

FIFA has sold over 100 million copies, with 10 million of FIFA being sold between October and December of last year alone.  While I do not think sales determines quality and I'm sure there were a few wonky years, I have a hard time believing that FIFA would outsell Pro Evolution by a ration of 40 to 1 despite it being an inferior product.  I think brand loyalty can keep some players in the fold, but like what 2K Sports did to EA in basketball, no publisher can move that kind of product with an inferior offering.

Apologies for missing your reference to the Saturn, guess I got my posts mixed up as a lot of the conversation was about the Dreamcast.  I should have remembered because I now recall a friend of mine who did have a Saturn and discovered a year or two after buying the console that all his saved-game data was wiped out because of some internal battery that hadn't charged in awhile.  

[Juventino]

As somebody who has been playing football (soccer) games since the first FIFA in 1994 for me it was always FIFA until about 2000-01, when I discovered the International Superstar Soccer series, which was a precursor to PES. I think games for a time were called ISS/PES, then there was a split and the PES series as we know it today was born. Anyway, I started playing ISS/PES on PS1, then I had both PES and FIFA in 2002 and 2003 I think, but FIFA was awful in those days compared to PES. I did not buy another FIFA until well into the PS3 days. During the PS2 era, PES was the king and all FIFA had over it was licences.

By the time we get to the PS3 era, PES began to dip. My last PES was 2010, I tried 2012 briefly but didn't like it and was buying FIFA every year from 2010. I returned to playing PES in 2015 and have kept at it since. I try both demos each year but don't think much of FIFA at the moment.

What FIFA has is the brand. I think PES, while it has its own faults, is a better game. But it fell quite a long way in the last era and FIFA's stock as a brand grew to huge levels.

[MillionsOfSpiders]

It's a close thing between PES and FIFA for me but I do enjoy the gameplay a little more with PES. I find it isn't as rigid as the FIFA games, you can score goals in many different ways and it's a much more challenging game to play.

I prefer the transfer market in FIFA and the building and training a team side of things in that game to Pro Evo's. 

[moreblack]

I've played some PES demos but nothing was there, that made me switch. I've been FIFA since 94 game. Didn't play them all though, I left off after the 98 world cup one, and didn't pick it up again until 07 or 08, and haven't stopped since. 

Currently working my way through Arkham Knight. That car is a lot of fun.

[wasted]

I had a Dreamcast and a PS2. But I think the Xbox 360 is best console ever. I still have it and playing games on it. One doesn’t seem better yet. 

The best thing Sony made was the sports walkman. 

I don’t like PS controllers or the PSN. Everything on the system seems delicate. Theres a delay when you do things.