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Guns N' Roses first ever radio interview

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Here is another interesting quote from Raz's book:

"The reason why I suggested Izzy to join in on the gig is obvious. I was, and remain, a huge fan of Izzy as well as his brilliant songs. The best L.A. Guns songs were written by Izzy and Axl, with some contributions from others. Also, I thought he might give Tracii some sorely needed help in the song-crafting department. Another important factor, both Axl and Tracii held immense respect for Izzy, and not just because he's almost as cool as Fonzi. Plus, ever since Axl escaped Indiana in search of Izzy in Hollywood, those two were destined to take their shot at the big time together. If Tracii wanted Axl to be his singer and put it all together in a show to last forever, eventually Izzy would join together in their band.  It's Izzy's world. Axl and Tracii were just rocking in it."

Edited by Sosso
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1 hour ago, Sosso said:

Here is another interesting quote from Raz's book:

"The reason why I suggested Izzy to join in on the gig is obvious. I was, and remain, a huge fan of Izzy as well as his brilliant songs. The best L.A. Guns songs were written by Izzy and Axl, with some contributions from others. Also, I thought he might give Tracii some sorely needed help in the song-crafting department. Another important factor, both Axl and Tracii held immense respect for Izzy, and not just because he's almost as cool as Fonzi. Plus, ever since Axl escaped Indiana in search of Izzy in Hollywood, those two were destined to take their shot at the big time together. If Tracii wanted Axl to be his singer and put it all together in a show to last forever, eventually Izzy would join together in their band.  It's Izzy's world. Axl and Tracii were just rocking in it."

Well, I’m not gonna lie. I love this quote. :lol: Does he write more about Izzy than that?

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6 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

Well, I’m not gonna lie. I love this quote. :lol: Does he write more about Izzy than that?

There are actually quite a couple of quotes about his creative inpute in the band. My opinion about him changed a lot after reading the book. I'm still a huge fan of Richard, but the whole band history wouldn't be possible without Izzy. 

 

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Joining the dots between the infos available on gnrontour.com, setlist.fm, Marc Canter's bible and the recently surfaced Raz Cue's interviews and infos, we gather the following on the early history of the band:

 


January to june 1984 - Axl, Izzy, Chris Weber, drummer Johnny Kreiss (and/or Johnny Krieff?) and bassist Rick Holland (and/or Rick Mars?) plays shows as Rose, later changed in Hollywood Rose (As Axl liked this monicker better) and they play the following dates (I'm not sure if the lineups here are always correct or not...fill in if you know more):

  • 01.03.84 - The Orphanage, North Hollywood, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].
    From what we know, this is Axl Rose's first show in L.A.

    01.17.84 - Troubadour, Hollywood, CA

    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].
    flyer

    02.12.84 - Troubadour, Hollywood, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].

    02.23.84 - Gazzarri's, West Hollywood, CA

    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].

    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].

    03.16.84 - Madame Wong's East, Los Angeles, CA

    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass]. Although the flyer says "Hollywood Rose" - this band is still "Rose" - Axl preferred the name "Hollywood Rose" and had these flyers printed.
    flyer

    04.01.84 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].
    flyer #1
    flyer #2

    04.20.84 - Madame Wong's East, Los Angeles, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].


 

early june 1984 to august 1984 - Izzy and Chris Weber leave Hollywood Rose (Izzy to join London I guess!?!?), and Slash and Steven joins the band and they play their first show together on june 16 at Madame Wong's West (on this date the lineup was completed by bassist Steve Darrow - unsure if he played any show before with HR or this was his first one too!). (Izzy leaves almost a week before Slash and Steven joins, according to Marc Canter's book, and one of the disagreement between izzy and Axl was over the riff of a song Izzy wrote called Cold Hard Cash, which Izzy wanted to discard but Axl liked and wanted to keep)

with this lineup they play the following dates over summer '84:

 

  • 06.16.84 - Madame Wong's West, Los Angeles, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    flyer
    notes: A Hollywood Rose gig.

    06.28.84 - Madame Wong's West, Los Angeles, CA

    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: A Hollywood Rose gig.

    07.10.84 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
    setlist: Shadow Of Your Love, Everything's OK, Reckless, Anything Goes, Rock N Roll Survivor (a song Slash wrote for Roadcrew and Axl added lyrics to), Rock N Roll Rose (a song Axl wrote after his first gig in LA), Back Off Bitch, Cold Hard Cash, Nice Boys, Hair Of The Dog

    notes: I'm pretty sure that Marc Canter recorded the audio of this show, not sure if video too!
    flyer

    08.29.84 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This was pre-GN'R.
    flyer

    08.31.84 - Shamrock Studios, Santa Monica, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This was pre-GN'R.
    flyer

     

 

In september 1984, for some uknown reasons, Hollywood Rose seems to disband, as Slash goes on to audition for Poison and Axl joins L.A. Guns, which plays the following dates:

 

  • oct 5, 1984 @ the troubadour (with Axl on lead vocals)

    setlist: Bloodshot Eyes, Shadow Of Your Love, Nice Boys, If You Don't Love Me, Stick To Your Guns, Anything Goes, Heartbreak Hotel

    notes: is this the first L.A. Guns show??? If so, Axl doesn not join L.A. Guns, but is indeed the original L.A. Guns singer!

    Audio/video recordings: Marc Canter recorded this show!

  • oct 13, 1984 @ the troubadour (with Axl on lead vocals)

    audio/video recording: i dont know for sure, but my sixth sense (and the pictures on his book) tells me Marc Canter recorded this on video!

  • nov 27, 1984 @ the troubadour

  • dec 1, 1984 - radio city

  • dec 22, 1984 - radio city

  • dec 31, 1984 - troubadour

  • jan 25, 1985 - radio city

  • feb 8, 1985 - country club

     

Now, we know for sure Axl played the two shows in october and then left, according to Marc Canter's book. Recordings of these two shows should exist and in the hands of Marc Canter. The rest of the shows, I guess Mike Jagosz took Axl's place, after the infamous Axl/Raz fights over something that either happened at the Rainbow or something. Around this time, the idea of Guns N' Roses is discussed between Axl and Tracii. This confirms that it was not a disagreement between axl and tracii to end this partenership in L.A. Guns (otherwise they wouldnt have formed guns n roses together just a couple of months later). If someone can fill in, or confirm this infos, please join in!

Meanwhile, Hollywood Rose played a new year's eve show, exactly 4 months after their known last gig! The lineup is unsure, but I guess it featured Axl, Izzy, Chris Weber, Steve Darrow? and a drummer...again, if you have any infos to fill the blank spaces, please join!)

 

  • 12.31.84 - San Pedro, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: Supposedly Hollywood Rose broke up after this show (but they will apparently regroup for one last gig togheter...read on...)

 

Now, we've seen that in january and february of 1985, L.A. Guns were still playing shows in Hollywood, so Tracii and his bands were "active".

In the Raz Cue's interview video, at 1:59 mark, we see the flyer for a - so far - unknown gig that Hollywood Rose supposedly played on thursday march 7th 1985, at the Dancing Waters in San Pedro, CA, advertised on the flyer as "the band that refuses to die". This show I think its crucial in what will then become the first GNR line up. I guess this is the show that is listed in Marc Canter's book (but without a date). According to Marc Canter's book, Izzy, that had just left London and was looking for a band, booked this show and put up this line up comprising of various member of Hollywood Rose and L.A. Guns. This show also marked the premiere of Don't Cry.

 

  • 03.07.85 - San Pedro, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: Hollywood Rose last gig, featuring Axl Rose, Izzy Stradlin, Chris Weber, Rob Gardner, Steve Darrow. It was the premiere of the song Don't Cry, written by Axl and Izzy


 

Very soon after this gig, something happened and L.A. Guns and Hollywood Rose finally merge in the first line up of Guns N' Roses, with Axl and Izzy (from Hollywood Rose), Tracii Guns, Ole Beich and Rob Gardner (from L.A. Guns – although, as we've seen above, Rob already played a gig with HR).

Their first gig is scheduled for march 26th at the troubadour (we learn from their very first interview, done on the night between march 21st and march 22 on KPFK in Hollywood, that this show was booked as a L.A.Guns show and then changed to a Guns N' Roses one). Ole Beich is advertised on the flyer for the march 26th show but actually he will never play live with the band as, being ready to record a rehearsal to air during the aforementioned interview, the band couldnt get hold of Ole, and Izzy decided to call a neighbor of his called Duff – who, by the way, had already crossed path with Slash and Steven a couple years before in RoadCrew). So this first interview was recorded just hours after the band recorded early versions of the songs "Think About You", "Don't Cry", "Anything Goes" (apparently Heartbreak Hotel was recorded too) at Willie Basse's studio. This recording exists and in the hands of Raz Cue.

With this original line up they played the following dates:

 

  • 03.26.85 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: first gig billed as Guns N'Roses
    flyer

    04.11.85 - Radio City, Anaheim, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes:
    flyer

    04.24.85 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes:
    flyer

    04.25.85 - Dancing Waters Club, San Pedro, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes:

    04.27.85 - Timbers Club, Glendora, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: apparently there was an argument over a certain Michelle Young (of My Michelle's fame) not being put on a guest list by Tracii. That drove Axl mad at him!


    05.11.85 – Radio City, Anaheim, CA

    05.12.85 - Joshua's Parlour, CA


 

Apparently Axl had issues with Tracii and wanted to fire him after the timbers clubs show, but waited cause they had two more shows booked, but then he fired him right after the Joshua's Parlour show in may! Rob Gardner, being loyal to his friend and bandmate Tracii, left the group soon after! At this point Axl already knew he wanted to get Slash in the band, but he was playing with Black Sheep, a somehow more established metal band on their way to getting signed. Things get confusing now, as according to Marc Canter's book, Axl, Izzy and Steven went to see Black Sheep at the Country Club on may 31st 1985, trying to convinve Slash to join GNR. That would mean Steven joined the band before Slash, although any other accounts suggests either the opposite or that they joined together!

Anyway all lead to this:

 

  • 06.06.85 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
    audio/video recording?: no

    setlist: Reckless, Shadow of your love, jumpin jack flash, think about you, move to the city, dont cry, nice boys, back off bitch, anything goes, heartbreak hotel
    notes: This is the first Guns N' Roses gig that included Slash & Steven. They joined the band on this date. Tracii Guns & Rob Gardener are in the flyer for this show! Marc Canter should have audio recordings of this historical first show!
    flyer

Edited by nikki9
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Great post @nikki9 ! I would also add that Ole Beich almost became a member of Black Sheep, as he jammed with both Slash and Steven until they joined GN'R. 

Edited by Sosso

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6 hours ago, nikki9 said:

Joining the dots between the infos available on gnrontour.com, setlist.fm, Marc Canter's bible and the recently surfaced Raz Cue's interviews and infos, we gather the following on the early history of the band:

 


January to june 1984 - Axl, Izzy, Chris Weber, drummer Johnny Kreiss (and/or Johnny Krieff?) and bassist Rick Holland (and/or Rick Mars?) plays shows as Rose, later changed in Hollywood Rose (As Axl liked this monicker better) and they play the following dates (I'm not sure if the lineups here are always correct or not...fill in if you know more):

  • 01.03.84 - The Orphanage, North Hollywood, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].
    From what we know, this is Axl Rose's first show in L.A.

    01.17.84 - Troubadour, Hollywood, CA

    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].
    flyer

    02.12.84 - Troubadour, Hollywood, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].

    02.23.84 - Gazzarri's, West Hollywood, CA

    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].

    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].

    03.16.84 - Madame Wong's East, Los Angeles, CA

    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass]. Although the flyer says "Hollywood Rose" - this band is still "Rose" - Axl preferred the name "Hollywood Rose" and had these flyers printed.
    flyer

    04.01.84 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].
    flyer #1
    flyer #2

    04.20.84 - Madame Wong's East, Los Angeles, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].


 

early june 1984 to august 1984 - Izzy and Chris Weber leave Hollywood Rose (Izzy to join London I guess!?!?), and Slash and Steven joins the band and they play their first show together on june 16 at Madame Wong's West (on this date the lineup was completed by bassist Steve Darrow - unsure if he played any show before with HR or this was his first one too!). (Izzy leaves almost a week before Slash and Steven joins, according to Marc Canter's book, and one of the disagreement between izzy and Axl was over the riff of a song Izzy wrote called Cold Hard Cash, which Izzy wanted to discard but Axl liked and wanted to keep)

with this lineup they play the following dates over summer '84:

 

  • 06.16.84 - Madame Wong's West, Los Angeles, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    flyer
    notes: A Hollywood Rose gig.

    06.28.84 - Madame Wong's West, Los Angeles, CA

    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: A Hollywood Rose gig.

    07.10.84 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
    setlist: Shadow Of Your Love, Everything's OK, Reckless, Anything Goes, Rock N Roll Survivor (a song Slash wrote for Roadcrew and Axl added lyrics to), Rock N Roll Rose (a song Axl wrote after his first gig in LA), Back Off Bitch, Cold Hard Cash, Nice Boys, Hair Of The Dog

    notes: I'm pretty sure that Marc Canter recorded the audio of this show, not sure if video too!
    flyer

    08.29.84 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This was pre-GN'R.
    flyer

    08.31.84 - Shamrock Studios, Santa Monica, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This was pre-GN'R.
    flyer

     

 

In september 1984, for some uknown reasons, Hollywood Rose seems to disband, as Slash goes on to audition for Poison and Axl joins L.A. Guns, which plays the following dates:

 

  • oct 5, 1984 @ the troubadour (with Axl on lead vocals)

    setlist: Bloodshot Eyes, Shadow Of Your Love, Nice Boys, If You Don't Love Me, Stick To Your Guns, Anything Goes, Heartbreak Hotel

    notes: is this the first L.A. Guns show??? If so, Axl doesn not join L.A. Guns, but is indeed the original L.A. Guns singer!

    Audio/video recordings: Marc Canter recorded this show!

  • oct 13, 1984 @ the troubadour (with Axl on lead vocals)

    audio/video recording: i dont know for sure, but my sixth sense (and the pictures on his book) tells me Marc Canter recorded this on video!

  • nov 27, 1984 @ the troubadour

  • dec 1, 1984 - radio city

  • dec 22, 1984 - radio city

  • dec 31, 1984 - troubadour

  • jan 25, 1985 - radio city

  • feb 8, 1985 - country club

     

Now, we know for sure Axl played the two shows in october and then left, according to Marc Canter's book. Recordings of these two shows should exist and in the hands of Marc Canter. The rest of the shows, I guess Mike Jagosz took Axl's place, after the infamous Axl/Raz fights over something that either happened at the Rainbow or something. Around this time, the idea of Guns N' Roses is discussed between Axl and Tracii. This confirms that it was not a disagreement between axl and tracii to end this partenership in L.A. Guns (otherwise they wouldnt have formed guns n roses together just a couple of months later). If someone can fill in, or confirm this infos, please join in!

Meanwhile, Hollywood Rose played a new year's eve show, exactly 4 months after their known last gig! The lineup is unsure, but I guess it featured Axl, Izzy, Chris Weber, Steve Darrow? and a drummer...again, if you have any infos to fill the blank spaces, please join!)

 

  • 12.31.84 - San Pedro, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: Supposedly Hollywood Rose broke up after this show (but they will apparently regroup for one last gig togheter...read on...)

 

Now, we've seen that in january and february of 1985, L.A. Guns were still playing shows in Hollywood, so Tracii and his bands were "active".

In the Raz Cue's interview video, at 1:59 mark, we see the flyer for a - so far - unknown gig that Hollywood Rose supposedly played on thursday march 7th 1985, at the Dancing Waters in San Pedro, CA, advertised on the flyer as "the band that refuses to die". This show I think its crucial in what will then become the first GNR line up. I guess this is the show that is listed in Marc Canter's book (but without a date). According to Marc Canter's book, Izzy, that had just left London and was looking for a band, booked this show and put up this line up comprising of various member of Hollywood Rose and L.A. Guns. This show also marked the premiere of Don't Cry.

 

  • 03.07.85 - San Pedro, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: Hollywood Rose last gig, featuring Axl Rose, Izzy Stradlin, Chris Weber, Rob Gardner, Steve Darrow. It was the premiere of the song Don't Cry, written by Axl and Izzy


 

Very soon after this gig, something happened and L.A. Guns and Hollywood Rose finally merge in the first line up of Guns N' Roses, with Axl and Izzy (from Hollywood Rose), Tracii Guns, Ole Beich and Rob Gardner (from L.A. Guns – although, as we've seen above, Rob already played a gig with HR).

Their first gig is scheduled for march 26th at the troubadour (we learn from their very first interview, done on the night between march 21st and march 22 on KPFK in Hollywood, that this show was booked as a L.A.Guns show and then changed to a Guns N' Roses one). Ole Beich is advertised on the flyer for the march 26th show but actually he will never play live with the band as, being ready to record a rehearsal to air during the aforementioned interview, the band couldnt get hold of Ole, and Izzy decided to call a neighbor of his called Duff – who, by the way, had already crossed path with Slash and Steven a couple years before in RoadCrew). So this first interview was recorded just hours after the band recorded early versions of the songs "Think About You", "Don't Cry", "Anything Goes" (apparently Heartbreak Hotel was recorded too) at Willie Basse's studio. This recording exists and in the hands of Raz Cue.

With this original line up they played the following dates:

 

  • 03.26.85 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: first gig billed as Guns N'Roses
    flyer

    04.11.85 - Radio City, Anaheim, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes:
    flyer

    04.24.85 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes:
    flyer

    04.25.85 - Dancing Waters Club, San Pedro, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes:

    04.27.85 - Timbers Club, Glendora, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: apparently there was an argument over a certain Michelle Young (of My Michelle's fame) not being put on a guest list by Tracii. That drove Axl mad at him!


    05.11.85 – Radio City, Anaheim, CA

    05.12.85 - Joshua's Parlour, CA


 

Apparently Axl had issues with Tracii and wanted to fire him after the timbers clubs show, but waited cause they had two more shows booked, but then he fired him right after the Joshua's Parlour show in may! Rob Gardner, being loyal to his friend and bandmate Tracii, left the group soon after! At this point Axl already knew he wanted to get Slash in the band, but he was playing with Black Sheep, a somehow more established metal band on their way to getting signed. Things get confusing now, as according to Marc Canter's book, Axl, Izzy and Steven went to see Black Sheep at the Country Club on may 31st 1985, trying to convinve Slash to join GNR. That would mean Steven joined the band before Slash, although any other accounts suggests either the opposite or that they joined together!

Anyway all lead to this:

 

  • 06.06.85 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
    audio/video recording?: no

    setlist: Reckless, Shadow of your love, jumpin jack flash, think about you, move to the city, dont cry, nice boys, back off bitch, anything goes, heartbreak hotel
    notes: This is the first Guns N' Roses gig that included Slash & Steven. They joined the band on this date. Tracii Guns & Rob Gardener are in the flyer for this show! Marc Canter should have audio recordings of this historical first show!
    flyer

I suppose Slash left Hollywood Rose (and auditioned for Poison) after having a falling out with Axl. We know they did at some time.

I agree it doesn't make much sense that Axl and Tracii would form GN'R if the reason Axl quit LA Guns was because of problems with Tracii. More likely the problem stemmed with Raz, or Axl and Tracii had musical differences in La Guns but wanted to found a label together called Guns N' Roses. I find the former explanation more plausible, though. 

The two GN'R dates in May 1985 are new to me. What is your source for these?

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9 hours ago, nikki9 said:

Joining the dots between the infos available on gnrontour.com, setlist.fm, Marc Canter's bible and the recently surfaced Raz Cue's interviews and infos, we gather the following on the early history of the band:

 


January to june 1984 - Axl, Izzy, Chris Weber, drummer Johnny Kreiss (and/or Johnny Krieff?) and bassist Rick Holland (and/or Rick Mars?) plays shows as Rose, later changed in Hollywood Rose (As Axl liked this monicker better) and they play the following dates (I'm not sure if the lineups here are always correct or not...fill in if you know more):

  • 01.03.84 - The Orphanage, North Hollywood, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].
    From what we know, this is Axl Rose's first show in L.A.

    01.17.84 - Troubadour, Hollywood, CA

    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].
    flyer

    02.12.84 - Troubadour, Hollywood, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].

    02.23.84 - Gazzarri's, West Hollywood, CA

    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].

    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].

    03.16.84 - Madame Wong's East, Los Angeles, CA

    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass]. Although the flyer says "Hollywood Rose" - this band is still "Rose" - Axl preferred the name "Hollywood Rose" and had these flyers printed.
    flyer

    04.01.84 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].
    flyer #1
    flyer #2

    04.20.84 - Madame Wong's East, Los Angeles, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].


 

early june 1984 to august 1984 - Izzy and Chris Weber leave Hollywood Rose (Izzy to join London I guess!?!?), and Slash and Steven joins the band and they play their first show together on june 16 at Madame Wong's West (on this date the lineup was completed by bassist Steve Darrow - unsure if he played any show before with HR or this was his first one too!). (Izzy leaves almost a week before Slash and Steven joins, according to Marc Canter's book, and one of the disagreement between izzy and Axl was over the riff of a song Izzy wrote called Cold Hard Cash, which Izzy wanted to discard but Axl liked and wanted to keep)

with this lineup they play the following dates over summer '84:

 

  • 06.16.84 - Madame Wong's West, Los Angeles, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    flyer
    notes: A Hollywood Rose gig.

    06.28.84 - Madame Wong's West, Los Angeles, CA

    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: A Hollywood Rose gig.

    07.10.84 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
    setlist: Shadow Of Your Love, Everything's OK, Reckless, Anything Goes, Rock N Roll Survivor (a song Slash wrote for Roadcrew and Axl added lyrics to), Rock N Roll Rose (a song Axl wrote after his first gig in LA), Back Off Bitch, Cold Hard Cash, Nice Boys, Hair Of The Dog

    notes: I'm pretty sure that Marc Canter recorded the audio of this show, not sure if video too!
    flyer

    08.29.84 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This was pre-GN'R.
    flyer

    08.31.84 - Shamrock Studios, Santa Monica, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This was pre-GN'R.
    flyer

     

 

In september 1984, for some uknown reasons, Hollywood Rose seems to disband, as Slash goes on to audition for Poison and Axl joins L.A. Guns, which plays the following dates:

 

  • oct 5, 1984 @ the troubadour (with Axl on lead vocals)

    setlist: Bloodshot Eyes, Shadow Of Your Love, Nice Boys, If You Don't Love Me, Stick To Your Guns, Anything Goes, Heartbreak Hotel

    notes: is this the first L.A. Guns show??? If so, Axl doesn not join L.A. Guns, but is indeed the original L.A. Guns singer!

    Audio/video recordings: Marc Canter recorded this show!

  • oct 13, 1984 @ the troubadour (with Axl on lead vocals)

    audio/video recording: i dont know for sure, but my sixth sense (and the pictures on his book) tells me Marc Canter recorded this on video!

  • nov 27, 1984 @ the troubadour

  • dec 1, 1984 - radio city

  • dec 22, 1984 - radio city

  • dec 31, 1984 - troubadour

  • jan 25, 1985 - radio city

  • feb 8, 1985 - country club

     

Now, we know for sure Axl played the two shows in october and then left, according to Marc Canter's book. Recordings of these two shows should exist and in the hands of Marc Canter. The rest of the shows, I guess Mike Jagosz took Axl's place, after the infamous Axl/Raz fights over something that either happened at the Rainbow or something. Around this time, the idea of Guns N' Roses is discussed between Axl and Tracii. This confirms that it was not a disagreement between axl and tracii to end this partenership in L.A. Guns (otherwise they wouldnt have formed guns n roses together just a couple of months later). If someone can fill in, or confirm this infos, please join in!

Meanwhile, Hollywood Rose played a new year's eve show, exactly 4 months after their known last gig! The lineup is unsure, but I guess it featured Axl, Izzy, Chris Weber, Steve Darrow? and a drummer...again, if you have any infos to fill the blank spaces, please join!)

 

  • 12.31.84 - San Pedro, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: Supposedly Hollywood Rose broke up after this show (but they will apparently regroup for one last gig togheter...read on...)

 

Now, we've seen that in january and february of 1985, L.A. Guns were still playing shows in Hollywood, so Tracii and his bands were "active".

In the Raz Cue's interview video, at 1:59 mark, we see the flyer for a - so far - unknown gig that Hollywood Rose supposedly played on thursday march 7th 1985, at the Dancing Waters in San Pedro, CA, advertised on the flyer as "the band that refuses to die". This show I think its crucial in what will then become the first GNR line up. I guess this is the show that is listed in Marc Canter's book (but without a date). According to Marc Canter's book, Izzy, that had just left London and was looking for a band, booked this show and put up this line up comprising of various member of Hollywood Rose and L.A. Guns. This show also marked the premiere of Don't Cry.

 

  • 03.07.85 - San Pedro, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: Hollywood Rose last gig, featuring Axl Rose, Izzy Stradlin, Chris Weber, Rob Gardner, Steve Darrow. It was the premiere of the song Don't Cry, written by Axl and Izzy


 

Very soon after this gig, something happened and L.A. Guns and Hollywood Rose finally merge in the first line up of Guns N' Roses, with Axl and Izzy (from Hollywood Rose), Tracii Guns, Ole Beich and Rob Gardner (from L.A. Guns – although, as we've seen above, Rob already played a gig with HR).

Their first gig is scheduled for march 26th at the troubadour (we learn from their very first interview, done on the night between march 21st and march 22 on KPFK in Hollywood, that this show was booked as a L.A.Guns show and then changed to a Guns N' Roses one). Ole Beich is advertised on the flyer for the march 26th show but actually he will never play live with the band as, being ready to record a rehearsal to air during the aforementioned interview, the band couldnt get hold of Ole, and Izzy decided to call a neighbor of his called Duff – who, by the way, had already crossed path with Slash and Steven a couple years before in RoadCrew). So this first interview was recorded just hours after the band recorded early versions of the songs "Think About You", "Don't Cry", "Anything Goes" (apparently Heartbreak Hotel was recorded too) at Willie Basse's studio. This recording exists and in the hands of Raz Cue.

With this original line up they played the following dates:

 

  • 03.26.85 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: first gig billed as Guns N'Roses
    flyer

    04.11.85 - Radio City, Anaheim, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes:
    flyer

    04.24.85 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes:
    flyer

    04.25.85 - Dancing Waters Club, San Pedro, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes:

    04.27.85 - Timbers Club, Glendora, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: apparently there was an argument over a certain Michelle Young (of My Michelle's fame) not being put on a guest list by Tracii. That drove Axl mad at him!


    05.11.85 – Radio City, Anaheim, CA

    05.12.85 - Joshua's Parlour, CA


 

Apparently Axl had issues with Tracii and wanted to fire him after the timbers clubs show, but waited cause they had two more shows booked, but then he fired him right after the Joshua's Parlour show in may! Rob Gardner, being loyal to his friend and bandmate Tracii, left the group soon after! At this point Axl already knew he wanted to get Slash in the band, but he was playing with Black Sheep, a somehow more established metal band on their way to getting signed. Things get confusing now, as according to Marc Canter's book, Axl, Izzy and Steven went to see Black Sheep at the Country Club on may 31st 1985, trying to convinve Slash to join GNR. That would mean Steven joined the band before Slash, although any other accounts suggests either the opposite or that they joined together!

Anyway all lead to this:

 

  • 06.06.85 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
    audio/video recording?: no

    setlist: Reckless, Shadow of your love, jumpin jack flash, think about you, move to the city, dont cry, nice boys, back off bitch, anything goes, heartbreak hotel
    notes: This is the first Guns N' Roses gig that included Slash & Steven. They joined the band on this date. Tracii Guns & Rob Gardener are in the flyer for this show! Marc Canter should have audio recordings of this historical first show!
    flyer

I also have for Hollywood Rose,

Quote

 

03.10.84 - Troubadour, Hollywood, CA

and

Quote

08.24.84 - Shamrock Studios, Santa Monica, CA

 

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3 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

The two GN'R dates in May 1985 are new to me. What is your source for these?

The second one is mentioned in Raz's book (without an exact date). Raz also says that both Axl and Izzy wanted to fire Tracii:

Izzy and Axl agreed Tracii would get the boot from Guns N’ Roses after their next show, the second week of May, giving them a month to find a replacement. Rose, Hollywood Rose, and other bands those two were in meant there were at least seven hundred former guitarists to choose from. Tracii Guns’ final performance as a member of Guns N’ Roses occurred at Joshua’s Parlor in Westminster. The guys could have fired him earlier, cancelled the show, and had more time to find a replacement, but we were all stoked for the gig. [Raz Cue, The Days of Guns, & Raz's, 2017]

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6 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

The two GN'R dates in May 1985 are new to me. What is your source for these?

Watch the KPFK interview video, at the 1:46 mark! And at 2:07 you can see a flyer for May 12!

Also, Raz talks about these gigs in the interview he did recently on GN'R Central!

Edited by nikki9
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3 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

I also have for Hollywood Rose,

Quote

 

03.10.84 - Troubadour, Hollywood, CA

and

Quote

08.24.84 - Shamrock Studios, Santa Monica, CA

Yes, absulutely right! Btw I'm working on a more detailed, accurate and expanded version of this timeline and I will post it asap!

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1 hour ago, nikki9 said:

Yes, absulutely right! Btw I'm working on a more detailed, accurate and expanded version of this timeline and I will post it asap!

Great! Since I am working on a little history project myself (http://www.a-4-d.com/t2847-the-history-of-guns-n-roses), I have also started putting down a timeline. I haven't come far, though: http://www.a-4-d.com/t2913-timeline#11418

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Also, its not true that Axl Rose's first L.A. show was on january 1984, as stated on Marc Canter's book and from common knowledge on many websites. There's proofs - i.e. photo evidence - that Axl played at least one show with Rapidfire at Gazzarri's, and that ough to be 1983!

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33 minutes ago, nikki9 said:

Also, its not true that Axl Rose's first L.A. show was on january 1984, as stated on Marc Canter's book and from common knowledge on many websites. There's proofs - i.e. photo evidence - that Axl played at least one show with Rapidfire at Gazzarri's, and that ough to be 1983!

Rapid Fire

03.20.83 - Gazzarri's, West Hollywood, CA
notes: band is ''Bill Bailey'' (vocals), Kevin Lawrence guitar], Chuck Gordon (drums) Mike Hammernik (bass). Won ''Battle of the Bands''.

04.08.83 - Gazzarri's, West Hollywood, CA

04.29.83 - Gazzarri's, West Hollywood, CA

05.28.83 - Gazzarri's, West Hollywood, CA
notes:  Izzy turned up and poached Axl at this show. Both Axl and Izzy were wearing ''glam regalia'' so the writing was on the wall!

? - ?
notes:  private show

PS

Izzy played in all sorts of bands in California also, including a drag act! Duff played for a lot of punk bands in Seattle before moving to California, drums, guitar or bass. It would be virtually impossible to figure all of this out. 

Edited by DieselDaisy
Corrected the dates

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11 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Rapid Fire

03.20.84 - Gazzarri's, West Hollywood, CA
notes: band is ''Bill Bailey'' (vocals), Kevin Lawrence guitar], Chuck Gordon (drums) Mike Hammernik (bass). Won ''Battle of the Bands''.

04.08.84 - Gazzarri's, West Hollywood, CA

04.29.84 - Gazzarri's, West Hollywood, CA

05.28.84 - Gazzarri's, West Hollywood, CA
notes:  Izzy turned up and poached Axl at this show. Both Axl and Izzy were wearing ''glam regalia'' so the writing was on the wall!

? - ?
notes:  private show

 

thank you....what's the source of these info though? I found it hard to believe the band was playing live in the spring of 1984, while Axl was busy rising the club scene with Hollywood Rose....

also because their demo -that later resurfaced as Ready To Rumble EP- was recorded on may 25 1983, as I reckon....so its more likely that the band would be active around that time and not a year later, don't you think?

Edited by nikki9

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2 minutes ago, nikki9 said:

perfect, thank you!

what's the source of these info though? I found it hard to believe the band was playing live in the spring of 1984, while Axl was busy rising the club scene with Hollywood Rose....

Oh sorry, that is all 1983. I pasted the above poster's list to follow his formatting and forgot to amend the years.

I'll correct it.

The source is this big article which Kevin Lawrence put on the net when he was in a legal wrangle with Axl to get the recording released.  

Edited by DieselDaisy

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On 5/11/2018 at 2:22 AM, nikki9 said:

Meanwhile, Hollywood Rose played a new year's eve show, exactly 4 months after their known last gig! The lineup is unsure, but I guess it featured Axl, Izzy, Chris Weber, Steve Darrow? and a drummer...again, if you have any infos to fill the blank spaces, please join!)

 

  • 12.31.84 - San Pedro, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: Supposedly Hollywood Rose broke up after this show (but they will apparently regroup for one last gig togheter...read on...)

 

Tracii Guns joined HR for this gig. Chris Weber wasn't there anymore (he left for New York City)

but it seems Chris also rejoined at some point and then left again (?) http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/ex-hollywood-rose-guitarist-axl-rose-was-very-ego-motivated/

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I wish that they would've released the planned EP in 1985. 

Shadow of Your Love 

Move to the City 

Back Off Bitch

Think About You

Don't Cry

Anything Goes

Edited by Sosso

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5 hours ago, Sosso said:

I wish that they would've released the planned EP in 1985. 

Shadow of Your Love 

Move to the City 

Back Off Bitch

Think About You

Don't Cry

Anything Goes

well they were supposed to include also some L.A. Guns songs and some covers, namely they were talking about Heartbreak Hotel :)

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8 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

It is all very confusing!

it is. I've noticed that Chris was back with them on the March 7th show, but that doesn't fit his quote that "he was back with them for a show about 6 months after he left" - if I get the timeline right, Chris' last show with HR was April 20th 1984. then he was replaced by Slash.

@nikki9 wrote above some info about the December 31st 1984 show but I think that Tracii was there as lead guitarist. weird history.

anyway, the only point in time when I'm REALLY unsure is, when AXL/Rose/Hollywood Rose was actually formed. it seems certain that the demo tracks later used for The Roots album were recorded in January 1984 (the booklet confirms it) and is also confirmed by the fact that the original tapes were at some point leaked by Rick Mars, who was the first bassist in January 1984 - so that's certain.

but when was the band actually formed? I found ZERO information about that...

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1 hour ago, zombux said:

it is. I've noticed that Chris was back with them on the March 7th show, but that doesn't fit his quote that "he was back with them for a show about 6 months after he left" - if I get the timeline right, Chris' last show with HR was April 20th 1984. then he was replaced by Slash.

@nikki9 wrote above some info about the December 31st 1984 show but I think that Tracii was there as lead guitarist. weird history.

anyway, the only point in time when I'm REALLY unsure is, when AXL/Rose/Hollywood Rose was actually formed. it seems certain that the demo tracks later used for The Roots album were recorded in January 1984 (the booklet confirms it) and is also confirmed by the fact that the original tapes were at some point leaked by Rick Mars, who was the first bassist in January 1984 - so that's certain.

but when was the band actually formed? I found ZERO information about that...

Rose was in Rapid Fire until 28th May 1983. You need to find that Rapid Fire article written by the lawyer of Kevin Lawrence. I cannot find it anywhere but from memory Izzy turned up for the last show, both Izzy and Axl in glam regalia, and it was obvious Rose was going to quit Rapid Fire and the two of them were going to form a band.

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Didn't Slash audition for Poison in or around March '85 ?

Why would he leave Hollywood Rose to audition for Poison, if there were months between ?

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6 minutes ago, Nikki_Sixx said:

Didn't Slash audition for Poison in or around March '85 ?

Why would he leave Hollywood Rose to audition for Poison, if there were months between ?

that matches quite well into the timeline - after the Aug 31st 1984 show Hollywood Rose disbands, Axl goes to L.A. Guns and Slash goes for Black Sheep and also auditioning for Poison at one point - and the two only met again in a band in the Jun 06 1985 GNR show (or somewhat earlier of course, like late April 1985).

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