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Guns N' Roses first ever radio interview

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On 11-5-2018 at 2:22 AM, nikki9 said:

In september 1984, for some uknown reasons, Hollywood Rose seems to disband, as Slash goes on to audition for Poison and Axl joins L.A. Guns, which plays the following dates:

 

I was talking about this quote above.

That seems impossible to me.  There must have been a falling out between Slash, Steven, Axl and Darrow, and then only months later Slash auditons for Poison.

Right ?

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17 minutes ago, Nikki_Sixx said:

I was talking about this quote above.

That seems impossible to me.  There must have been a falling out between Slash, Steven, Axl and Darrow, and then only months later Slash auditons for Poison.

Right ?

correct, maybe Axl was then persuaded to join L.A. Guns by Tracii Guns.

Slash probably played with Black Sheep at least during the months in 1985.

it might also be cool to consider Road Crew history in all this mess. after all, it was the band where Slash and Adler were before they joined Hollywood Rose.

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22 hours ago, zombux said:

it is. I've noticed that Chris was back with them on the March 7th show, but that doesn't fit his quote that "he was back with them for a show about 6 months after he left" - if I get the timeline right, Chris' last show with HR was April 20th 1984. then he was replaced by Slash.

@nikki9 wrote above some info about the December 31st 1984 show but I think that Tracii was there as lead guitarist. weird history.

It's natural that Chris Weber's recollection of the timeline is vague, more so since he was out of town for a long time. For example, he seems to mess up the timeline about when Slash was in Hollywood Rose and makes it look like it was after Axl was in L.A. Guns and during the formation of GnR.

I think Raz Cue's book is a good source and fills some blanks. He doesn't say anything about the December 31st 1984 HR show, but goes in detail about the March 7th show and says that Tracii was disheartened because Axl and Izzy asked Chris Weber to play the gig and not him.

In @nikki9's list there is an L.A. Guns show at the Troubadour on December 31. If that date is correct, then it couldn't have been Tracii at the Hollywood Rose show of the same night. But Raz Cue says that the L.A. Guns show was on the "New Year’s Eve-Eve", which I guess means December 30, so Tracii might have been at the Dec. 31st HR show. Also why would he be "disheartened" because HR asked their original guitarist to play the March 7th show instead of him, if he hadn't played with HR before?

 

Edited by Blackstar
date typo

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On 5/10/2018 at 5:22 PM, nikki9 said:

Joining the dots between the infos available on gnrontour.com, setlist.fm, Marc Canter's bible and the recently surfaced Raz Cue's interviews and infos, we gather the following on the early history of the band:

 


January to june 1984 - Axl, Izzy, Chris Weber, drummer Johnny Kreiss (and/or Johnny Krieff?) and bassist Rick Holland (and/or Rick Mars?) plays shows as Rose, later changed in Hollywood Rose (As Axl liked this monicker better) and they play the following dates (I'm not sure if the lineups here are always correct or not...fill in if you know more):

  • 01.03.84 - The Orphanage, North Hollywood, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].
    From what we know, this is Axl Rose's first show in L.A.

    01.17.84 - Troubadour, Hollywood, CA

    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].
    flyer

    02.12.84 - Troubadour, Hollywood, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].

    02.23.84 - Gazzarri's, West Hollywood, CA

    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].

    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].

    03.16.84 - Madame Wong's East, Los Angeles, CA

    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass]. Although the flyer says "Hollywood Rose" - this band is still "Rose" - Axl preferred the name "Hollywood Rose" and had these flyers printed.
    flyer

    04.01.84 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].
    flyer #1
    flyer #2

    04.20.84 - Madame Wong's East, Los Angeles, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This band is "Rose" - Axl, Izzy [lead & rhythm guitar], Chris Weber [lead & rhythm guitar], Johnny Kreiss [drums] & Rick Holland [bass].


 

early june 1984 to august 1984 - Izzy and Chris Weber leave Hollywood Rose (Izzy to join London I guess!?!?), and Slash and Steven joins the band and they play their first show together on june 16 at Madame Wong's West (on this date the lineup was completed by bassist Steve Darrow - unsure if he played any show before with HR or this was his first one too!). (Izzy leaves almost a week before Slash and Steven joins, according to Marc Canter's book, and one of the disagreement between izzy and Axl was over the riff of a song Izzy wrote called Cold Hard Cash, which Izzy wanted to discard but Axl liked and wanted to keep)

with this lineup they play the following dates over summer '84:

 

  • 06.16.84 - Madame Wong's West, Los Angeles, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    flyer
    notes: A Hollywood Rose gig.

    06.28.84 - Madame Wong's West, Los Angeles, CA

    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: A Hollywood Rose gig.

    07.10.84 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
    setlist: Shadow Of Your Love, Everything's OK, Reckless, Anything Goes, Rock N Roll Survivor (a song Slash wrote for Roadcrew and Axl added lyrics to), Rock N Roll Rose (a song Axl wrote after his first gig in LA), Back Off Bitch, Cold Hard Cash, Nice Boys, Hair Of The Dog

    notes: I'm pretty sure that Marc Canter recorded the audio of this show, not sure if video too!
    flyer

    08.29.84 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This was pre-GN'R.
    flyer

    08.31.84 - Shamrock Studios, Santa Monica, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: This was pre-GN'R.
    flyer

     

 

In september 1984, for some uknown reasons, Hollywood Rose seems to disband, as Slash goes on to audition for Poison and Axl joins L.A. Guns, which plays the following dates:

 

  • oct 5, 1984 @ the troubadour (with Axl on lead vocals)

    setlist: Bloodshot Eyes, Shadow Of Your Love, Nice Boys, If You Don't Love Me, Stick To Your Guns, Anything Goes, Heartbreak Hotel

    notes: is this the first L.A. Guns show??? If so, Axl doesn not join L.A. Guns, but is indeed the original L.A. Guns singer!

    Audio/video recordings: Marc Canter recorded this show!

  • oct 13, 1984 @ the troubadour (with Axl on lead vocals)

    audio/video recording: i dont know for sure, but my sixth sense (and the pictures on his book) tells me Marc Canter recorded this on video!

  • nov 27, 1984 @ the troubadour

  • dec 1, 1984 - radio city

  • dec 22, 1984 - radio city

  • dec 31, 1984 - troubadour

  • jan 25, 1985 - radio city

  • feb 8, 1985 - country club

     

Now, we know for sure Axl played the two shows in october and then left, according to Marc Canter's book. Recordings of these two shows should exist and in the hands of Marc Canter. The rest of the shows, I guess Mike Jagosz took Axl's place, after the infamous Axl/Raz fights over something that either happened at the Rainbow or something. Around this time, the idea of Guns N' Roses is discussed between Axl and Tracii. This confirms that it was not a disagreement between axl and tracii to end this partenership in L.A. Guns (otherwise they wouldnt have formed guns n roses together just a couple of months later). If someone can fill in, or confirm this infos, please join in!

Meanwhile, Hollywood Rose played a new year's eve show, exactly 4 months after their known last gig! The lineup is unsure, but I guess it featured Axl, Izzy, Chris Weber, Steve Darrow? and a drummer...again, if you have any infos to fill the blank spaces, please join!)

 

  • 12.31.84 - San Pedro, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: Supposedly Hollywood Rose broke up after this show (but they will apparently regroup for one last gig togheter...read on...)

 

Now, we've seen that in january and february of 1985, L.A. Guns were still playing shows in Hollywood, so Tracii and his bands were "active".

In the Raz Cue's interview video, at 1:59 mark, we see the flyer for a - so far - unknown gig that Hollywood Rose supposedly played on thursday march 7th 1985, at the Dancing Waters in San Pedro, CA, advertised on the flyer as "the band that refuses to die". This show I think its crucial in what will then become the first GNR line up. I guess this is the show that is listed in Marc Canter's book (but without a date). According to Marc Canter's book, Izzy, that had just left London and was looking for a band, booked this show and put up this line up comprising of various member of Hollywood Rose and L.A. Guns. This show also marked the premiere of Don't Cry.

 

  • 03.07.85 - San Pedro, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: Hollywood Rose last gig, featuring Axl Rose, Izzy Stradlin, Chris Weber, Rob Gardner, Steve Darrow. It was the premiere of the song Don't Cry, written by Axl and Izzy


 

Very soon after this gig, something happened and L.A. Guns and Hollywood Rose finally merge in the first line up of Guns N' Roses, with Axl and Izzy (from Hollywood Rose), Tracii Guns, Ole Beich and Rob Gardner (from L.A. Guns – although, as we've seen above, Rob already played a gig with HR).

Their first gig is scheduled for march 26th at the troubadour (we learn from their very first interview, done on the night between march 21st and march 22 on KPFK in Hollywood, that this show was booked as a L.A.Guns show and then changed to a Guns N' Roses one). Ole Beich is advertised on the flyer for the march 26th show but actually he will never play live with the band as, being ready to record a rehearsal to air during the aforementioned interview, the band couldnt get hold of Ole, and Izzy decided to call a neighbor of his called Duff – who, by the way, had already crossed path with Slash and Steven a couple years before in RoadCrew). So this first interview was recorded just hours after the band recorded early versions of the songs "Think About You", "Don't Cry", "Anything Goes" (apparently Heartbreak Hotel was recorded too) at Willie Basse's studio. This recording exists and in the hands of Raz Cue.

With this original line up they played the following dates:

 

  • 03.26.85 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: first gig billed as Guns N'Roses
    flyer

    04.11.85 - Radio City, Anaheim, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes:
    flyer

    04.24.85 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes:
    flyer

    04.25.85 - Dancing Waters Club, San Pedro, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes:

    04.27.85 - Timbers Club, Glendora, CA
    audio/video recording?: no
    notes: apparently there was an argument over a certain Michelle Young (of My Michelle's fame) not being put on a guest list by Tracii. That drove Axl mad at him!


    05.11.85 – Radio City, Anaheim, CA

    05.12.85 - Joshua's Parlour, CA


 

Apparently Axl had issues with Tracii and wanted to fire him after the timbers clubs show, but waited cause they had two more shows booked, but then he fired him right after the Joshua's Parlour show in may! Rob Gardner, being loyal to his friend and bandmate Tracii, left the group soon after! At this point Axl already knew he wanted to get Slash in the band, but he was playing with Black Sheep, a somehow more established metal band on their way to getting signed. Things get confusing now, as according to Marc Canter's book, Axl, Izzy and Steven went to see Black Sheep at the Country Club on may 31st 1985, trying to convinve Slash to join GNR. That would mean Steven joined the band before Slash, although any other accounts suggests either the opposite or that they joined together!

Anyway all lead to this:

 

  • 06.06.85 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA
    audio/video recording?: no

    setlist: Reckless, Shadow of your love, jumpin jack flash, think about you, move to the city, dont cry, nice boys, back off bitch, anything goes, heartbreak hotel
    notes: This is the first Guns N' Roses gig that included Slash & Steven. They joined the band on this date. Tracii Guns & Rob Gardener are in the flyer for this show! Marc Canter should have audio recordings of this historical first show!
    flyer

You've done a great job here.   I interviewed Razcue with GNR Central and he gave lots of information.   It's interesting to note that Ole Beich played no live shows with the band.  And the last few shows in May 85 before Slash and Steven joined were actually in Orange County, California,  not LA!  Interesting factoids...

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5 hours ago, kevinb said:

It's interesting to note that Ole Beich played no live shows with the band.

correct, the first GNR live show was already with Duff.

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Maybe I am wrong but from top of my head I think Ole did one show with GN'R.

The March 26th, 1985 Troubadour-show must be with Ole. It's the only one for him as far as I know. All consecutive gigs from that point on are with Duff.

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2 minutes ago, MJ23 said:

Maybe I am wrong but from top of my head I think Ole did one show with GN'R.

The March 26th, 1985 Troubadour-show must be with Ole. It's the only one for him as far as I know. All consecutive gigs from that point on are with Duff.

That's wrong. Duff joined the band shortly before the fourth rehearsal (March 18-20, 1985).

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16 minutes ago, MJ23 said:

Maybe I am wrong but from top of my head I think Ole did one show with GN'R.

The March 26th, 1985 Troubadour-show must be with Ole. It's the only one for him as far as I know. All consecutive gigs from that point on are with Duff.

I vaguely remember that Ole is on the flyer for that show, but Duff played there.

as @Sosso pointed out, the rehearsal happened before the very first show and Duff was already there. 

Ole's stint didn't last even a two weeks time, he only attended 3 rehearsals and no shows.

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 "Although tired of Tracii's shit, he wanted Axl as his singer enough to put up with him. Ole had no idea that his tenure was even slightly in jeopardy. Then, within days of of getting booted from GN'R, Ole went to Wilpower Studios to grab his gear and ran into Slash, who at the time played in Black Sheep. Soon, he, Slash and Steven were jamming together semi-regulary. Right up until those two joined GN'R. So in Ole's mind, he had actually lost out twice." - Raz Cue, The Days of Guns, & Raz's, p. 249

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1 hour ago, Sosso said:

Raz Cue, The Days of Guns, & Raz's

is there... err... some way to... err... read that whole thing? I mean... err... you know what I mean :)

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1 minute ago, zombux said:

is there... err... some way to... err... read that whole thing? I mean... err... you know what I mean :)

Buy the book. It is good.

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2 minutes ago, zombux said:

is there... err... some way to... err... read that whole thing? I mean... err... you know what I mean :)

The book is available on Amazon Kindle and in printed form. 

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I am now irritated.

I went back to my notes and I have slightly different infos noted back then (have to admit it was 2011 or so).

Slash wrote in his book (p. 97-98)
(...) sometime in early 1985, Axl and Tracii Guns started putting a band together; they brought Ole Bench (should be Beich) and Rob Gardner (...) in L.A. Guns. (...) Axl opted to change the name to Guns N' Roses for obvious reasons. (...) They did a few gigs, they wrote a few songs - in that order. (...) Izzy came in to give me a flyer for a Guns N' Roses show in Orange county. Somewhere along the line, Duff replaced Ole (...)

htgth.com lists at least two shows with Ole in the band.

Stephen Davis has the following written in his book "Watch You Bleed: The Saga of Guns N' Roses":
In March 1985, Axl and Izzy decided they had to work together again. Izzy persuaded The Troubadour to book a weeknight show for the new group. (...) Axl the stole Tracii Guns from his own band. They rehearsed with drummer Rob Gardner (...) and bassist Ole Beich. (...) The new band played the usual covers of Stones, Zeppelin, and Aerosmith (...) Nobody was really happy about this. Axl and Izzy knew they were now a team, but Tracii seemed less than comitted. They didn't think Ole had what they wanted in a bass player. (...) Then, in May 1985, the Guns N' Roses ad for a bass player in Music Connection was answered by Duff McKagan.

 

EDIT:

Having listened to the Raz Cue interview posted on youtube I have to admit that the Stephen Davis infos in his book are wrong. In the interview they are clearly talking about early shows with Duff already in the band. At least for the April 85 shows in Radio City and Dancing Waters.

Edited by MJ23
additional info

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It's sad that Ole never had the chance to play a concert with GN'R. I like his bass lines on the first L.A. Guns EP. 

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On 10/05/2018 at 4:04 PM, Sosso said:

Here is another interesting quote from Raz's book:

"The reason why I suggested Izzy to join in on the gig is obvious. I was, and remain, a huge fan of Izzy as well as his brilliant songs. The best L.A. Guns songs were written by Izzy and Axl, with some contributions from others. Also, I thought he might give Tracii some sorely needed help in the song-crafting department. Another important factor, both Axl and Tracii held immense respect for Izzy, and not just because he's almost as cool as Fonzi. Plus, ever since Axl escaped Indiana in search of Izzy in Hollywood, those two were destined to take their shot at the big time together. If Tracii wanted Axl to be his singer and put it all together in a show to last forever, eventually Izzy would join together in their band.  It's Izzy's world. Axl and Tracii were just rocking in it."

this is fantastic

I had no idea that any of the LA GUNS songs were written (or co-written) by Axl and Izzy

I really wanna listen to them with Axl singing!

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On 10/05/2018 at 5:42 PM, Tori72 said:

Well, I’m not gonna lie. I love this quote. :lol: Does he write more about Izzy than that?

the one thing that really baffles me is that Axl and Slash apparently are clueless to this day of izzy's absolutely brilliant songwriting and the importance of songwriting itself

they appear to think that they will get great songs with whoever they write songs with, but guess what, it just doesn't happen like that

if, at least, they were working with another good songwriter, or even with song doctors like Desmond Child etc, then Chinese Democracy and all those Slash solo albums would have good songs on them

but no

they have chosen (for pretty much the last 3 decades) to work/write songs with mostly clueless people that can't write a good song to save their lives

Edited by ludurigan
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10 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

the one thing that really baffles me is that Axl and Slash apparently are clueless to this day of izzy's absolutely brilliant songwriting

 

I think that Axl was aware of it, because he has recorded Down by the Ocean with the CD line-up of GN'R.  

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2 minutes ago, Sosso said:

I think that Axl was aware of it, because he has recorded Down by the Ocean with the CD line-up of GN'R.  

i dont think so

Axl and Slash apparently are clueless to this day of izzy's absolutely brilliant songwriting and the importance of songwriting itself

they appear to think that they will get great songs with whoever they write songs with, but guess what, it just doesn't happen like that

if, at least, they were working with another good songwriter, or even with song doctors like Desmond Child etc, then Chinese Democracy and all those Slash solo albums would have good songs on them

but no

they have chosen (for pretty much the last 3 decades) to work/write songs with mostly clueless people that can't write a good song to save their lives

 

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On 10/05/2018 at 5:55 PM, Sosso said:

There are actually quite a couple of quotes about his creative inpute in the band. My opinion about him changed a lot after reading the book. I'm still a huge fan of Richard, but the whole band history wouldn't be possible without Izzy. 

 

yes, anyone that knows a bit more about GNR gets to that conclusion

it seems clear to me that the very same thing can be said about axl

without axl, gnr songs wouldn't have half the drama they have, and axl voice and delivery are (were) so unique that they take (used to take) ANY SONG to a completely new and higher level of greatness

you just have to listen to him singing "piece of me" by skid row or "free falling" by tom petty to realize how much greatness he is (was) able to inject into a song

maybe the same can be said about slash as well. his guitar playing (solos, riffs etc) have a melodic quality and a dramatic quality that you just don't find anywhere else. his solos are (used to be) like mini songs inside the song. his riffs and licks are (used to be) mostly brilliant

these three guys, you remove one of them, and something fundamental is lost, you gotta have the three in the band to have GNR

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51 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

this is fantastic

I had no idea that any of the LA GUNS songs were written (or co-written) by Axl and Izzy

I really wanna listen to them with Axl singing!

Based on what Raz Cue said in his book, I'm under the impression that most of those songs were actually the Hollywood Rose songs that Axl had brought into L.A. Guns. But he mentions a song that Axl wrote with Izzy while he was in L.A. Guns (he doesn't give a title so it's not clear if it was one of the songs that became GnR songs later). Axl also had written lyrics for songs Tracii Guns had.

But, unfortunately, if Raz is to be believed, all Axl's recorded vocals for L.A. Guns were erased after he left.

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19 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Based on what Raz Cue said in his book, I'm under the impression that most of those songs were actually the Hollywood Rose songs that Axl had brought into L.A. Guns. But he mentions a song that Axl wrote with Izzy while he was in L.A. Guns (he doesn't give a title so it's not clear if it was one of the songs that became GnR songs later). Axl also had written lyrics for songs Tracii Guns had.

But, unfortunately, if Raz is to be believed, all Axl's recorded vocals for L.A. Guns were erased after he left.

yeah, it is possible that he was referring to the Hollywood Rose songs...

this setlist got me drooling...

oct 5, 1984 @ the troubadour (with Axl on lead vocals)

  • setlist: Bloodshot Eyes, Shadow Of Your Love, Nice Boys, If You Don't Love Me, Stick To Your Guns, Anything Goes, Heartbreak Hotel

    Audio/video recordings: Marc Canter recorded this show!

do you think there is any possibility that any of these three songs (Bloodshot Eyes, If You Don't Love Me, Stick To Your Guns) were written by (or with the help of) Izzy and Axl?

do you know anything about these songs?

were they used by LA Guns later?

i really really wanna listen to them!

 

 

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There is a L. A. Guns song called Don't Love Me. 

 

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12 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

yeah, it is possible that he was referring to the Hollywood Rose songs...

this setlist got me drooling...

oct 5, 1984 @ the troubadour (with Axl on lead vocals)

  • setlist: Bloodshot Eyes, Shadow Of Your Love, Nice Boys, If You Don't Love Me, Stick To Your Guns, Anything Goes, Heartbreak Hotel

    Audio/video recordings: Marc Canter recorded this show!

do you think there is any possibility that any of these three songs (Bloodshot Eyes, If You Don't Love Me, Stick To Your Guns) were written by (or with the help of) Izzy and Axl?

do you know anything about these songs?

were they used by LA Guns later?

i really really wanna listen to them!

There is a short clip of Bloodshot Eyes with Axl on vocals from an L.A. Guns gig, but I have no idea if it or any of the other two songs was used by L.A. Guns later. I haven't read anything about Izzy contributing to those songs either.

 

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58 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

There is a short clip of Bloodshot Eyes with Axl on vocals from an L.A. Guns gig, but I have no idea if it or any of the other two songs was used by L.A. Guns later. I haven't read anything about Izzy contributing to those songs either.

 

yeah i had listened to that one its brilliant!

:headbang:

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1 hour ago, Sosso said:

There is a L. A. Guns song called Don't Love Me. 

 

do you think it is the same?

 

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