Does "Jackie Chan/Checkman" date back to the 90s?

[Fashionista]

As you know years ago a snippet of a song called Jackie Chan aka Checkmate was played by a guy on a radio station:

Anyone think this song might date back to the 90s? I ask based on this quote from '96 by Duff:
 

"Duff: We're in [the studio], writing new songs...
Stern: And Axl's into it?
Duff: Yeah, totally. And, actually, today I was going to have to fly back right after this. We were going to start recording for this Jackie Chan movie, the next one." (Duff, Howard Stern Show, 07/25/96)

Just odd that they were writing a song for a Jackie Chan movie in 1996 and Axl gives a song a working title of Jackie Chan, and we know from 4tus that stuff they were working on dated back to the Slash era....

[Gordon Comstock]

Since most of the stuff on CD comes from the late 90's, it's very possible that this clip is also from '98/99

Edited March 17, 2018 by Gordon Comstock

[IncitingChaos]

It’s pretty well known that they worked on many tracks in the late 90’s with Slash and even Fortus recently mentioning working on the material in recent years. Axl felt some of the work Slash did during those years were his best, and as Axl took some of the new songs into his nugnr, Slash took his ideas to VR. Neither ever complained that they stole ideas but if in 2018 the best material Axl has is from a 22 year old movie project then any future album is screwed 

[Bluefish18]

This has always been my favorite leak- of the stuff we've never heard in its proper full release.  Would love to hear a full version of this.  

[RazorGunner]

 

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/how-tommy-stinson-moved-on-from-replacements-and-gnr-w458836

Incidentally, Stinson says there's a wealth of recordings Guns N' Roses made during his tenure that have yet to be released. "There's some stuff with lyrics, some without," he says.

"We did a lot of stuff that was supposed to be on Chinese Democracy – the record was meant to be more than one disc, but after spending so much time on it we just had to put an end to it. There's also stuff that was held over from [the original lineup] before they all disbanded, so there's some stuff that should someday see the light of day."

[zombux]

what we know for sure - the "Checkmate" leak comes from the same batch as the IRS and TWAT leak, it came on 27th May 2006 by DJ Razz - of course we don't know for sure if these also come from the same tape/medium or session. allegedly, these come from 1999. 

also CITR that was leaked 3 months earlier, sounds very similar to these and is also supposed to come from 1999. this track was leaked together with the other February/March 2006 leaks, but sounds distinctively different from them, much more similar to the later DJ Razz leaks than the other Feb/Mar 2006 ones.

Edited March 17, 2018 by zombux

[TheGeneral]

I love that leak too. Sounds really interesting, if there's a CD era song that I hope makes the next album it's this one.

But I always hated the title "Jackie Chan". I just don't like naming songs after people. 

"Checkmate" on the other hand sounds awesome and I hope it's named this.

[ToonGuns]

Just release the bloody thing! Fan club only limited edition vinyl, record store day LE, download only - anything. Treat the fans.

I always loved this leak. Needs a Bucket solo though 😉

[F*ck Fear]

They are working titles that would likely change in their final form.

[soon]

I've often wondered along the same lines as the OP.  To my ears its a very Slash progression, tone and style - like Aint Going Down or Don't Damn Me.  Although in previous conversations about this other posters have said to them it sounds nothing like Slash and very much like NuGuns "metal."  With the lyrics it would seem like an obvious choice for a lead single in this era.

 

4 hours ago, zombux said:

what we know for sure - the "Checkmate" leak comes from the same batch as the IRS and TWAT leak, it came on 27th May 2006 by DJ Razz - of course we don't know for sure if these also come from the same tape/medium or session. allegedly, these come from 1999. 

also CITR that was leaked 3 months earlier, sounds very similar to these and is also supposed to come from 1999. this track was leaked together with the other February/March 2006 leaks, but sounds distinctively different from them, much more similar to the later DJ Razz leaks than the other Feb/Mar 2006 ones.

Thanks for this.  I had no idea it was as early as 2006 that it was leaked.  I had it in mind that it was in 2013. Maybe thats when the fan edit came out that Im thinking of?

[zombux]

17 minutes ago, soon said:

Maybe thats when the fan edit came out that Im thinking of?

hard to say. just from the top of my head, I remember that fan edits surfaced quite soon after the original leak, the most popular was the one which put the original leak in loop.

but actually, the original leak only was 16 seconds snippet, or to be more accurate, it was 19 seconds, including 3 seconds of "did I mention - F**K YOU" by Razz himself (that was meant for Merck). there was a short story about this, I remember Razz was tricked by Merck, promised some backstage passes to Hammerstein and helped Merck hunt a guy who had the whole song, but Merck screwed him, so Razz leaked at least this part and added the f-phrase  

[Tom2112]

10 hours ago, IncitingChaos said:

It’s pretty well known that they worked on many tracks in the late 90’s with Slash and even Fortus recently mentioning working on the material in recent years. Axl felt some of the work Slash did during those years were his best, and as Axl took some of the new songs into his nugnr, Slash took his ideas to VR. Neither ever complained that they stole ideas but if in 2018 the best material Axl has is from a 22 year old movie project then any future album is screwed 

Not necessarily the case. Look at Van Halens - different kind of truth from 2012. Great reviews, and the bulk of the material was at least 25+ yrs old when it was recorded. Good album!

Good material is good material. If the 96 sessions had something relevant then it could still work.

As for this snippet of a song, it doesn't sound like a Slash riff, and it's definitely not him playing. Not out of the realms of possibility that this song also has Slash based riffs somewhere else in the song. It actually sounds closer to something Duff might have written, similar to loaded.

 

Edited March 17, 2018 by Tom2112

[Gackt]

The song's nice and heavy, deserves to have been at least a stand-along single if given a proper release.  Radios eat that shit up.

[James Bond]

My guess is that it does indeed come from the same sessions as the 98/99 IRS and TWAT leaks based on Axl's vocal tonality.

[Tom2112]

1 hour ago, Wagszilla said:

ye think tis bloody robin finck or paul fookin tobias running the sweeps across that fretboard do ya sonny

 

Sounds more like a keytar to my ears😁

[zombux]

2 hours ago, Wagszilla said:

ye think tis bloody robin finck or paul fookin tobias running the sweeps across that fretboard do ya sonny

 

same here. this doesn't sound like Slash or Duff at all. my bet would be at Paul Huge or generally just the era of the Shadow Company. might be Robin Finck, might be not - only some parallel universe God knows what the hell would those guys be rehearsing during that era.

[rocknroll41]

28 minutes ago, zombux said:

same here. this doesn't sound like Slash or Duff at all. my bet would be at Paul Huge or generally just the era of the Shadow Company. might be Robin Finck, might be not - only some parallel universe God knows what the hell would those guys be rehearsing during that era.

oh shit I forgot that "the shadow company" was actually a thing. That basically means there was two GNRs co-existing in like 1995-1996.

[RazorGunner]

In June 2006, uptownterry, who said he was engineer of Guns N 'Roses when they were recording in 2000 Intentions, gave a CD to Razz, the DJ- @http://www.illitpress.com/ containing versions of IRS, There Was a Time, and 16 seconds of Jackie Chan/Checkmate which was allegedly recorded in 1999.

(2000 Intentions was supposedly the Name of Chinese Democracy, and there are rumors that in 1999 was handed over to Universal, but it was rejected. Only rumors).

After receiving the music, DJ Razz contacted Merck, manager of Guns N 'Roses at the time and gave him the IP of uptownterry. Merck notified the FBI and they went to the house of uptownterry, which was not arrested, but apparently had all of the material related to Guns N' Roses confiscated by police.

When asked if there was some music of Guns N 'Roses called "Checkmate," GN'R's manager, Merck said no, leading everyone to believe that this clip was just a fake, since at the time they were very common in the forums, However, Axl confirmed that this stretch it is a song with the  working title "Jackie Chan", and drummer Brian Mantia confirmed that he is playing.

Edited March 17, 2018 by RazorGunner

[zombux]

27 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said:

oh shit I forgot that "the shadow company" was actually a thing. That basically means there was two GNRs co-existing in like 1995-1996.

correct. only the "public lineup" was effectlively either on hiatus, or doing rehearsals Axl demanded.

+ the years were 1996-7 - after that, Sid Riggs got an official replacement called Josh Freese and Krys Baratto similarly some guy named Tommy Stinson (altough not at the same time and/or neccessarily seamlessly, but I don't remember that very well, it was sometimes in March-April 1998).

edit: some info about the Shadow Company here: http://www.gnrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?id=13280 + Chinese Whispers of course.

Edited March 17, 2018 by zombux

[jbhutto]

14 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Good material is good material. If the 96 sessions had something relevant then it could still work.

Yeah, GNR sound is generally timeless.  Checkmate doesn't seem to veer off in any particular direction that would peg it down so all they'd really need to do is work it up a bit.

[ZODIAC]

I'm wondering if the guns camp is aware of the overall positive reception of this song/snippet. I mean... We're talking about a song, that leaked 12 years ago and was probably recorded almost 20 years ago! And everybody would still freak out, if we we finally could hear the whole song!  It would be a mess, if it would never see the light of the day... 

[Stress Fracture]

'Every chance was given, no effort spared to save what we had' sounds like a post-Slash lyric.

[rocknroll41]

6 hours ago, Stress Fracture said:

'Every chance was given, no effort spared to save what we had' sounds like a post-Slash lyric.

My thoughts exactly. Checkmate is most likely from the 1998-1999 Sean Beaven sessions. The lineup is most likely Axl/Finck/Tobias/Stinson/Freese/Reed/Pitman.

[Duwz]

6 hours ago, Stress Fracture said:

'Every chance was given, no effort spared to save what we had' sounds like a post-Slash lyric.

more like any relationship axl ever had in his life

[ToonGuns]

21 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said:

My thoughts exactly. Checkmate is most likely from the 1998-1999 Sean Beaven sessions. The lineup is most likely Axl/Finck/Tobias/Stinson/Freese/Reed/Pitman.

Didn't Brain say he played on it?