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Cultural/Political/Social Trends & Divergence Thread

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12 hours ago, wasted said:

Incels seem like a product of cybernetic culture. In many ways they are doing similar things that a lot of youth sub cultures do. They sort build their own culture or club rules to deal with reality. It’s just the reality they see is videogames that make you all powerful and porn. Then it’s straight into this ideology. There’s no mention of tradition or roles in society. It’s like a mental game they are playing. 

I agree. Very succinct too.

One thing thats weird about the game they set up is that its rigged for failure. I mean if you look at the ideal women in the incel world, and if you tally up all the things they hate about women; there seems to be a lot of contradiction or crossover. Theres no real world women who fits the description. Theyd tell us that they hate women for not dating them. But they hate women too much to want to date any.

They don't want to leave the incel culture perhaps? Its an identity and a belonging. Almost as if they are intentionally planting life long roots with one another - close partners and extended family. These can be intimate relationships that include representations and explorations of ones sexuality in a twisted way. Kinda mirrors a traditional monogamous narrative a little bit. Fills a lot of the same needs at least in a cybernetic fashion.

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8 hours ago, soon said:

I agree. Very succinct too.

One thing thats weird about the game they set up is that its rigged for failure. I mean if you look at the ideal women in the incel world, and if you tally up all the things they hate about women; there seems to be a lot of contradiction or crossover. Theres no real world women who fits the description. Theyd tell us that they hate women for not dating them. But they hate women too much to want to date any.

They don't want to leave the incel culture perhaps? Its an identity and a belonging. Almost as if they are intentionally planting life long roots with one another - close partners and extended family. These can be intimate relationships that include representations and explorations of ones sexuality in a twisted way. Kinda mirrors a traditional monogamous narrative a little bit. Fills a lot of the same needs at least in a cybernetic fashion.

I wonder how much is even an alt reality or trolling. As in it’s very present tense without context. It’s like they are just rationalizing something that won’t happen. But there’s no knowledge of a real world, do they think everyone is having sex like porn stars? If they put their ideas in context of an average family life do they dissolve. 

Another idea I had is that maybe these kind of personalties always existed but internet brought them together. Like what do serial killers think. There seems like a common brain malfunction. 

It does seem like an extreme ideology which is perpetuated by the internet. But is this is good thing or a bad thing. To know who and what they think means we can some how coax back into some sort normal level psychosis like most people. 

Edited by wasted

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18 hours ago, wasted said:

I wonder how much is even an alt reality or trolling. As in it’s very present tense without context. It’s like they are just rationalizing something that won’t happen. But there’s no knowledge of a real world, do they think everyone is having sex like porn stars? If they put their ideas in context of an average family life do they dissolve. 

Another idea I had is that maybe these kind of personalties always existed but internet brought them together. Like what do serial killers think. There seems like a common brain malfunction. 

It does seem like an extreme ideology which is perpetuated by the internet. But is this is good thing or a bad thing. To know who and what they think means we can some how coax back into some sort normal level psychosis like most people. 

Yeah, I dont know. Lots of good thoughts there.

I tend to think its a product of the internet and we dont yet understand how to to study it. And I think that there are those on the Right who troll themselves into true belief. And I think their are those on the Right, typically older, who troll virgins to coax them into incel culture to achieve discord or agendas in the MRA space.

The alt right and other new manifestations of the Right thrives in discord.

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I think a lot of young men that fall into this way of thinking don't have much opportunity to mix with women. Back in the 50's young people mixed in person at tea dances, later on that turned into pubs and nightclubs, now people gravitate to online spaces many of which skew heavily towards one sex.

A lot of them seem to be tech oriented which is an issue. My eldest son is studying IT at college, it's popular enough that they need to run two concurrent groups but last year there was only one girl on the whole course, this year none. Compared to when I was at college (doing A Levels with about a 50/50 split) the social mix is non existent and they only hang out with each other. He's into Thai boxing as a hobby and the club is all male so at almost 18 he has virtually no interaction with non family females, which worries me a bit.

There's a lot of debate about whether girls are interested in tech subjects and I find it believable that numbers naturally skew towards male students but when I took him to enrol on the course there was a young girl being interviewed with her Mum for a place and the guy running the course was doing everything he could to dissuade her from joining even going as far to suggest childcare or animal care would be a better option. He belittled her self professed interest in IT as not really evidence yet had no issue giving my son a place based on the same self professed qualifications. The difference in interview was stark - my son wasn't a great candidate as he did poorly at GCSE due to various factors.

I almost put a complaint in to the college about the blatant sexism, I wish I had really but my son didn't want me to make waves before he'd even started and technically I wasn't supposed to be eavesdropping. The whole experience was really depressing. I've no idea if she stuck to her guns and got on the course (maybe she was the lone girl last year) I can't imagine the course will have been much fun if that was the attitude of the staff.

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3 minutes ago, alfierose said:

I think a lot of young men that fall into this way of thinking don't have much opportunity to mix with women. Back in the 50's young people mixed in person at tea dances, later on that turned into pubs and nightclubs, now people gravitate to online spaces many of which skew heavily towards one sex.

A lot of them seem to be tech oriented which is an issue. My eldest son is studying IT at college, it's popular enough that they need to run two concurrent groups but last year there was only one girl on the whole course, this year none. Compared to when I was at college (doing A Levels with about a 50/50 split) the social mix is non existent and they only hang out with each other. He's into Thai boxing as a hobby and the club is all male so at almost 18 he has virtually no interaction with non family females, which worries me a bit.

There's a lot of debate about whether girls are interested in tech subjects and I find it believable that numbers naturally skew towards male students but when I took him to enrol on the course there was a young girl being interviewed with her Mum for a place and the guy running the course was doing everything he could to dissuade her from joining even going as far to suggest childcare or animal care would be a better option. He belittled her self professed interest in IT as not really evidence yet had no issue giving my son a place based on the same self professed qualifications. The difference in interview was stark - my son wasn't a great candidate as he did poorly at GCSE due to various factors.

I almost put a complaint in to the college about the blatant sexism, I wish I had really but my son didn't want me to make waves before he'd even started and technically I wasn't supposed to be eavesdropping. The whole experience was really depressing. I've no idea if she stuck to her guns and got on the course (maybe she was the lone girl last year) I can't imagine the course will have been much fun if that was the attitude of the staff.

The staff member dissuaded her because she was a girl? Whaaaaat the fuck? That's so messed up. Like something from the 50's or some shit.

P.S. Your son is part of patriarchy. :lol:

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15 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

The staff member dissuaded her because she was a girl? Whaaaaat the fuck? That's so messed up. Like something from the 50's or some shit.

P.S. Your son is part of patriarchy. :lol:

Even he agreed it was awful but was also aware he only scraped onto the course by the skin of his teeth and Mum going all feminazi on his new tutor probably wouldn't help. Seeing as he's my primary interest I'm also complicit in the patriarchy by letting it slide. :facepalm:

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2 minutes ago, alfierose said:

Even he agreed it was awful but was also aware he only scraped onto the course by the skin of his teeth and Mum going all feminazi on his new tutor probably wouldn't help. Seeing as he's my primary interest I'm also complicit in the patriarchy by letting it slide. :facepalm:

He didn't want to check his privilege. :no:

I've never felt so superiorly woke in my life! :lol:

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10 hours ago, soon said:

Yeah, I dont know. Lots of good thoughts there.

I tend to think its a product of the internet and we dont yet understand how to to study it. And I think that there are those on the Right who troll themselves into true belief. And I think their are those on the Right, typically older, who troll virgins to coax them into incel culture to achieve discord or agendas in the MRA space.

The alt right and other new manifestations of the Right thrives in discord.

By Alt right you mean 4 chan trolls or like Richard Spencer type Alt right? It does seem like they grew because of the the left bringing them up. Like the hype seems bigger than the numbers at the marches but if you add trolling then it seems like a fire. 

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17 hours ago, wasted said:

By Alt right you mean 4 chan trolls or like Richard Spencer type Alt right? It does seem like they grew because of the the left bringing them up. Like the hype seems bigger than the numbers at the marches but if you add trolling then it seems like a fire. 

Well what I said was:

On December 22, 2018 at 12:04 PM, soon said:

The alt right and other new manifestations of the Right thrives in discord.

 

By Alt Right I mean Alt Right and by other new manifestations of the Right, I mean all the other new manifestations of the right. That some in the media and public call all of the emergent right as "Alt Right" is unfortunate but does nothing to diminish the immediate threat to freedom and democracy that the spectrum of new right ideologies and tactics represent.

See how the discord caused by the medias blanket usage of "Alt Right" was used as an opportunity to attempt to downplay the new rights numbers? A very meta way of demonstrating my earlier point. 

Meanwhile the emergent Right informed Trumps road to becoming POTUS, Commander in Chief, Leader of the Free World. Hardly hype. 

Edited by soon

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12 hours ago, soon said:

Well what I said was:

 

By Alt Right I mean Alt Right and by other new manifestations of the Right, I mean all the other new manifestations of the right. That some in the media and public call all of the emergent right as "Alt Right" is unfortunate but does nothing to diminish the immediate threat to freedom and democracy that the spectrum of new right ideologies and tactics represent.

See how the discord caused by the medias blanket usage of "Alt Right" was used as an opportunity to attempt to downplay the new rights numbers? A very meta way of demonstrating my earlier point. 

Meanwhile the emergent Right informed Trumps road to becoming POTUS, Commander in Chief, Leader of the Free World. Hardly hype. 

I think there’s a difference between a basic Trump voter and the Alt right though. Maybe it was bundling them all together that helped Hillary lose. Somebody who was voting for Trump in the hope of a job or is pro life probably was offended to be lumped in with the Alt Right. 

I don’t think voters have fully formed ideologocal reasons to vote. I think it’s more acceptable to say that Trump got these Alt right people on board to vote. Not that the Alt right got a huge demographic to vote Trump who wouldn’t have. Maybe he did mobilize a certain amount of people. That’s kind of his biggest flaw but it has advantages in an election. He says multiple things that appeal to different people. Trump lost most of the true Alt Right when he started missiling Syria. But now he’s talking about pulling out are they back on board? 

I doubt your basic Trump voter understands this distinction. They just put on a hat and pick a team. 

But true overall the right has always offered less freedom, they love to wield that state power. I guess the left’s freedom comes at a price. I think obviously they ignored the problems some groups and this became a probably. Like Hillary was saying recently need a address immigration or you will get a populist movement like Trump. 

The answer doesn’t seem to demonize groups of people. There’s too many to throw away. 63 million Americans voted for Trump. To say they are part of some sort of fascist movement is very limiting. 

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9 hours ago, wasted said:

I think there’s a difference between a basic Trump voter and the Alt right though. Maybe it was bundling them all together that helped Hillary lose. Somebody who was voting for Trump in the hope of a job or is pro life probably was offended to be lumped in with the Alt Right. 

I don’t think voters have fully formed ideologocal reasons to vote. I think it’s more acceptable to say that Trump got these Alt right people on board to vote. Not that the Alt right got a huge demographic to vote Trump who wouldn’t have. Maybe he did mobilize a certain amount of people. That’s kind of his biggest flaw but it has advantages in an election. He says multiple things that appeal to different people. Trump lost most of the true Alt Right when he started missiling Syria. But now he’s talking about pulling out are they back on board? 

I doubt your basic Trump voter understands this distinction. They just put on a hat and pick a team. 

But true overall the right has always offered less freedom, they love to wield that state power. I guess the left’s freedom comes at a price. I think obviously they ignored the problems some groups and this became a probably. Like Hillary was saying recently need a address immigration or you will get a populist movement like Trump. 

The answer doesn’t seem to demonize groups of people. There’s too many to throw away. 63 million Americans voted for Trump. To say they are part of some sort of fascist movement is very limiting. 

I dont think you are speaking to anything Ive said and seem set and rattling off very similar talking points on a regular basis.

Again, I am saying 'a spectrum of new and emergent right wing ideologies and tactics.' That would include the Tea Party. And I dont need an explanation that they are Alt Right because I am still not sayin that they are. You seem to believe the it suits your purpose to continue to repeat that "Alt right is small" "Not everyone is fascist" even when thats not a reasonable response to the content of my post.

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9 minutes ago, soon said:

I dont think you are speaking to anything Ive said and seem set and rattling off very similar talking points on a regular basis.

Again, I am saying 'a spectrum of new and emergent right wing ideologies and tactics.' That would include the Tea Party. And I dont need an explanation that they are Alt Right because I am still not sayin that they are. You seem to believe the it suits your purpose to continue to repeat that "Alt right is small" "Not everyone is fascist" even when thats not a reasonable response to the content of my post.

You seemed to be saying Alt right and other manifestations of it. That seemed to broaden it. 

I agreed that they are a threat to freedom, so it’s a small misunderstanding. 

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