Cultural/Political/Social Trends & Divergence Thread

[Len Cnut]

4 hours ago, Graeme said:

I think there's a lot of truth in this... For these guys, because they've never had it, sex seems to be put on a pedestal, like it's achieving a form of nirvana. As if once you get laid all the normal challenges of existence cease to be a problem, you've made it, you're in the club. They've clearly been brought to view the world through some sort of cultural frame or narrative where sex is attained through a meritocracy and if you're not getting laid then there must be something hideously wrong with you. In reality, aye, it's great to take your clothes off with someone else you find attractive and have a good time, but life goes on and it becomes another fun thing you do, alongside the existing things you already did to entertain yourself.

Then you bring the gender dynamics into it, they're in an all-male community where women can be totally 'othered', they cease to be three-dimensional human beings and instead they're just viewed as a homogeneous mass that stand against them to deny them entry into nirvana because they've not 'earned' it according to the rules of the fictional meritocracy.

Some people just don't get laid for all sorts of reasons. I know beautiful, intelligent, successful and kind-hearted women who have never had a single relationship by their late 20s... Shit happens, (or doesn't, as the case may be). It took a long time for me too, through a combination of shyness, high standards and a hell of a lot of really bad luck, but I never ended up having the viewpoints that these guys have somehow manufactured. I've always had a lot of female friends (which is something that's heavily stigmatised in the online 'get laid' community as the 'friendzone' is apparently the worst thing in history) so it was impossible for me to think "all women are..." or "all women want..." because I knew that they were real people and as different from one another as men are.

You can extrapolate trends to try to present yourself according to what you think more women on average find attractive, but it's not really likely to get you anywhere, and if you're looking for emotional fulfilment based on a lowest-common-denominator strategy of trying to appeal to a generic archetype of 'what women want' then you deserve the failure or the shitty, shallow relationship that's likely to come out of it. 

 

Last bit was a bit harsh but other than that totally agree.

[Len Cnut]

On 11/07/2018 at 11:26 PM, wasted said:

A very skillful winger with the finesse and guile of Platini. 

How did that not get at least a dolphin thing. 

What the fuck does the dolphin mean anyway?

[wasted]

1 minute ago, Len Cnut said:

What the fuck does the dolphin mean anyway?

GNFR? 

Which means...dolphins?

It’s a paradox. 

Edited August 7, 2018 by wasted

[Len Cnut]

6 minutes ago, wasted said:

GNFR? 

Which means...

Beach towels & scented candles baby!

[wasted]

Just now, Len Cnut said:

Beach towels & scented candles baby!

Once there was a way to get back home

[marlingrl03]

I was told when you really really like a post...then you can choose to give them a dolphin. 

Edited August 7, 2018 by marlingrl03

[killuridols]

On 6/8/2018 at 12:36 PM, soon said:

This Incel stuff is strange. A dude shits his pants as part of his online-incel-persona in this clip. I dont get it.

What is this? what does Incel mean?

Damn, Im so out of what's in, looool.... or do I have to watch the video to understand?

Please explain to me like I was a baby

[Angelica]

17 minutes ago, killuridols said:

What is this? what does Incel mean?

Damn, Im so out of what's in, looool.... or do I have to watch the video to understand?

Please explain to me like I was a baby

It stands for ‘involuntary celibate’. It’s basically  a bunch of guys who are so aggressively unpleasant they can’t get laid. Which is of course, on account of women cruelly  withholding the sex they imagine they’re entitled too, and certainly not because there’s anything wrong with them. 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Angelica

[killuridols]

4 hours ago, Angelica said:

It stands for ‘involuntary celibate’. It’s basically  a bunch of guys who are so aggressively unpleasant they can’t get laid. Which is of course, on account of women cruelly  withholding the sex they imagine they’re entitled too, and certainly not because there’s anything wrong with them. 

Holy shit, thank you for the explanation! 

Enraged virgos are the worst!.... Reminds me of that young kid who killed lots of girls and boys because they had sex and he did not. Then he killed himself. It was the son of some Hollywood person, wrote a hateful manifesto where he explained why he was so enraged and the plan he had to kill.

[-W.A.R-]

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

Holy shit, thank you for the explanation! 

Enraged virgos are the worst!.... Reminds me of that young kid who killed lots of girls and boys because they had sex and he did not. Then he killed himself. It was the son of some Hollywood person, wrote a hateful manifesto where he explained why he was so enraged and the plan he had to kill.

That would be Elliot Rodger. I believe the these incel people consider him an idol.

[killuridols]

5 hours ago, -W.A.R- said:

That would be Elliot Rodger. I believe the these incel people consider him an idol.

Yeah, that's him! I read his whole manifesto in like 2 days, lol. 

Fucked up kid but what I got from it is that he was this way because his family sucked so much. The kid just wanted his mom and dad to love him but they didn't. They were too busy with their busy lives. 

 

P.S. The tone of his writing reminded me of Holden Caulfield.

Edited August 9, 2018 by killuridols

[Eric Cantona]

7 hours ago, killuridols said:

Holy shit, thank you for the explanation! 

Enraged virgos are the worst!.... Reminds me of that young kid who killed lots of girls and boys because they had sex and he did not. Then he killed himself. It was the son of some Hollywood person, wrote a hateful manifesto where he explained why he was so enraged and the plan he had to kill.

He's the incel God.

I'm not even joking, those people look up to him in the incel forums.

[soon]

11 hours ago, killuridols said:

What is this? what does Incel mean?

Damn, Im so out of what's in, looool.... or do I have to watch the video to understand?

Please explain to me like I was a baby

Seems like others have given good answers already . But Ive been putting a lot of thought into it lately and would appreciate any input?

Even though I first heard the term Incel after the 2014 rampage, I didn't understand that 'incel' wasn't simply a term for all involuntarily celibate men, but a subculture of frustrated virgins who embrace misogyny. Ive been trying to understand it more since the recent Toronto van attack targeting women, where the attacker praised Elliot Rogers and claimed "the incel rebellion has already begun." The van attack is enough on its own, but for a Canadian it comes with the additional weight that the van attack was the largest rampage attack in Canada since the misogynist attack on students at Polytechnique Massacre in 1989. We seem to have a problem here.

And the gendered aspects of Colonization has seen the death or disappearance of 1000's of Indigenous women and girls go under investigated by law enforcement. I know that 'sanctioned' violence against indigenous people is a major issue through out the Americas and around the world. This is from a great article that overviews many aspects of Canada's problem with gendered violence:

"Then there’s the country’s long record of violence against indigenous women, which stretches all the way back to the European colonization of Canada. In the past few decades alone, thousands of indigenous women have been murdered or gone missing. Between 2001 and 2015, indigenous women were six times more likely to be murdered than other women in Canada, according to a report by the national statistics agency, Statistics Canada."

The Male Supremacist aspect of Colonization has even produced prolific serial killers like Robert Pickton a white male who may have murdered as many as 49 women, most of whom were Indigenous women or sex workers in Canada.

So thats why Im trying to wrap my head around this Incel thing - it might thrive where I live and Im not having that. I suspect that in many cases innocent and frustrated men enter the incel fray looking for companionship and support but are quickly and efficiently radicalized into the violent ideology. Not sure though, I don't understand it yet.

[EvanG]

4 hours ago, killuridols said:

Yeah, that's him! I read his whole manifesto in like 2 days, lol. 

Fucked up kid but what I got from it is that he was this way because his family sucked so much. The kid just wanted his mom and dad to love him but they didn't. They were too busy with their busy lives. 

 

P.S. The tone of his writing reminded me of Holden Caulfield.

I read it too. It's mindblowing how delusional he was. Did you check his videos on youtube? It's kinda hilarious how he introduces himself in every video. If only he had gotten laid once...

 

[killuridols]

7 hours ago, soon said:

Seems like others have given good answers already . But Ive been putting a lot of thought into it lately and would appreciate any input?

Even though I first heard the term Incel after the 2014 rampage, I didn't understand that 'incel' wasn't simply a term for all involuntarily celibate men, but a subculture of frustrated virgins who embrace misogyny. Ive been trying to understand it more since the recent Toronto van attack targeting women, where the attacker praised Elliot Rogers and claimed "the incel rebellion has already begun." The van attack is enough on its own, but for a Canadian it comes with the additional weight that the van attack was the largest rampage attack in Canada since the misogynist attack on students at Polytechnique Massacre in 1989. We seem to have a problem here.

And the gendered aspects of Colonization has seen the death or disappearance of 1000's of Indigenous women and girls go under investigated by law enforcement. I know that 'sanctioned' violence against indigenous people is a major issue through out the Americas and around the world. This is from a great article that overviews many aspects of Canada's problem with gendered violence:

"Then there’s the country’s long record of violence against indigenous women, which stretches all the way back to the European colonization of Canada. In the past few decades alone, thousands of indigenous women have been murdered or gone missing. Between 2001 and 2015, indigenous women were six times more likely to be murdered than other women in Canada, according to a report by the national statistics agency, Statistics Canada."

The Male Supremacist aspect of Colonization has even produced prolific serial killers like Robert Pickton a white male who may have murdered as many as 49 women, most of whom were Indigenous women or sex workers in Canada.

So thats why Im trying to wrap my head around this Incel thing - it might thrive where I live and Im not having that. I suspect that in many cases innocent and frustrated men enter the incel fray looking for companionship and support but are quickly and efficiently radicalized into the violent ideology. Not sure though, I don't understand it yet.

Holy cow... I don't even know where to begin with all that, my head is exploding!

Let's see.. I never heard of that Incel thing until yesterday and after the responses given here and what I know about Elliot Rodger, I am having a hard time understanding all of this, basically because I just cannot relate with the subculture part of this problem.

Just to contextualize, I am female and I went through my sexual awakening in the 90's. I can definitely say that pressure to lose virginity was there ALL THE TIME, even for us girls, so I imagine for boys it might have been worse. I remember that my school mates would lie all the time about their sexual experiences. Everybody was lying because no one wanted to be "the only virgin" of the class, while (after many years I realized) that most of them were virgins and the stories they were spreading around were bullshit to save face-

This is how the peer pressure works and pushes people who are not ready for it to get into dangerous behavior, without thinking, without knowing shit. In my class of 30 kids, we had one girl coming out pregnant when we were like 16 years old, which is not so bad since we are speaking of middle class kids. In lower strata of society, the teenage pregnancy was (is) way higher.

However, despite the peer pressure and the constant daily talk about sex, I never learned about any "group of frustrated virgins" that were getting ready for revenge or embracing misogyny. This thing is completely new to me. It's like... during those years, internally, you knew that it was going to happen sooner or later.... we didn't have a sense of being "doomed" to virginity forever or something like that. I really can't understand why these guys encapsulate themselves like this and do not go on with their lives. Seems like they are trying to belong 'somewhere', trying to find a group of pertenence, no matter what

I have the same feeling with those kids who now label themselves as "asexual" and I cant help but wonder how in the fuck at 15, 16 or 18 years old you can already determine for yourself that you are this or that. The only explanation that I can find is that they are being too strict with themselves, not giving themselves a chance to just live life and see what life can offer you. It's like saying "Im dead at 16, there are no more experiences left" and they close the door to life, basically. It's so sad.....

Just watched the video you posted in the previous page, that guy who is 23 years old.... I feel sorry for him, he is physically attractive but he is ruining his life with that anxious smoking, no job, not going to school, all day connected to Internet, interacting with guys who are just frustrated like him. Those kids clearly need help from adults, they need therapy and to cut the Internet addiction.

 

3 hours ago, EvanG said:

I read it too. It's mindblowing how delusional he was. Did you check his videos on youtube? It's kinda hilarious how he introduces himself in every video. If only he had gotten laid once...

I watched some of them before, I like the manifesto more, lol..... and nope, I don't think his problem would have been solved by getting laid.

His issues were childhood stuff, issues with his primary family, both his father and mother neglected him. No girl or woman was going to fix that.

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by killuridols

[EvanG]

9 minutes ago, killuridols said:

I watched some of them before, I like the manifesto more, lol..... and nope, I don't think his problem would have been solved by getting laid.

His issues were childhood stuff, issues with his primary finally, both his father and mother neglected him. No girl or woman was going to fix that.

 

I don't know enough about his case, but his real problems started when he hit puberty and got sexually frustrated. At least that is what he constantly claimed in his manifesto. He had some type of autism or something else and I don't think his parents are to blame for that. Or maybe they should have intervened earlier and made sure he got help because there was obviously something wrong with him.

In his manifesto and all his clips he constantly talks about being superior and how girls should throw themselves at him because he wears fancy clothes and has an expensive car and comes from an ''important'' family. I don't think he ever went up to a girl himself to talk to them. If only he had done that, he might have gotten a date sooner or later, or even a girlfriend, and all this wouldn't have happened. He might have still run into problems one way or another because again, there was something wrong with him, but maybe he wouldn't have done what he did, because most of it came from sexual frustration and never even having kissed a girl.

[janrichmond]

What is the average age of an incel?? why have i never heard of this thing? I'm gonna have a google now...

[soon]

31 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Holy cow... I don't even know where to begin with all that, my head is exploding!

Let's see.. I never heard of that Incel thing until yesterday and after the responses given here and what I know about Elliot Rodger, I am having a hard time understanding all of this, basically because I just cannot relate with the subculture part of this problem.

Just to contextualize, I am female and I went through my sexual awakening in the 90's. I can definitely say that pressure to lose virginity was there ALL THE TIME, even for us girls, so I imagine for boys it might have been worse. I remember that my school mates would lie all the time about their sexual experiences. Everybody was lying because no one wanted to be "the only virgin" of the class, while (after many years I realized) that most of them were virgins and the stories they were spreading around were bullshit to save face-

This is how the peer pressure works and pushes people who are not ready for it to get into dangerous behavior, without thinking, without knowing shit. In my class of 30 kids, we had one girl coming out pregnant when we were like 16 years old, which is not so bad since we are speaking of middle class kids. In lower strata of society, the teenage pregnancy was (is) way higher.

However, despite the peer pressure and the constant daily talk about sex, I never learned about any "group of frustrated virgins" that were getting ready for revenge or embracing misogyny. This thing is completely new to me. It's like... during those years, internally, you knew that it was going to happen sooner or later.... we didn't have a sense of being "doomed" to virginity forever or something like that. I really can't understand why these guys encapsulate themselves like this and do not go on with their lives. Seems like they are trying to belong 'somewhere', trying to find a group of pertenence, no matter what

I have the same feeling with those kids who now label themselves as "asexual" and I cant help but wonder how in the fuck at 15, 16 or 18 years old you can already determine for yourself that you are this or that. The only explanation that I can find is that they are being too strict with themselves, not giving themselves a chance to just live life and see what life can offer you. It's like saying "Im dead at 16, there are no more experiences left" and they close the door to life, basically. It's so sad.....

Just watched the video you posted in the previous page, that guy who is 23 years old.... I feel sorry for him, he is physically attractive but he is ruining his life with that anxious smoking, no job, not going to school, all day connected to Internet, interacting with guys who are just frustrated like him. Those kids clearly need help from adults, they need therapy and to cut the Internet addiction.

 

 

Oh, sorry for too much info. I can see how it would be a bit overwhelming. I just put the hyperlinks for anyone who was curious, didnt intend to suggest one had to read them all. But it was too much. Sometimes my brain gets away from me a bit. Also, I wrote that very early this morning. This may have played a role in the less than succinct format . Thanks for bearing with me!

I have the same general view as I think you are describing. How did they get so fixated on sex and virginity? Why would they turn to others in the same boat - doesnt seem like theyd be much help? I still cant figure if they arrive at hatred and rage independently and then find one another, or if they co-create this culture once connecting. According to the first link in my post Incel culture emerged from Pickup Artist culture. So I guess the general sense is that they have tried all that (gross) stuff and failed.

And I also agree about the guy in the video I posted. I thought he was attractive. Plus he's a leader in that he runs a chat room. He can carry a conversation. And he seemed confident talking to a pretty and smart women. And all of this on camera. I mean, he seems to have it all. So confusing.

 

[killuridols]

1 hour ago, EvanG said:

I don't know enough about his case, but his real problems started when he hit puberty and got sexually frustrated. At least that is what he constantly claimed in his manifesto. He had some type of autism or something else and I don't think his parents are to blame for that. Or maybe they should have intervened earlier and made sure he got help because there was obviously something wrong with him.

In his manifesto and all his clips he constantly talks about being superior and how girls should throw themselves at him because he wears fancy clothes and has an expensive car and comes from an ''important'' family. I don't think he ever went up to a girl himself to talk to them. If only he had done that, he might have gotten a date sooner or later, or even a girlfriend, and all this wouldn't have happened. He might have still run into problems one way or another because again, there was something wrong with him, but maybe he wouldn't have done what he did, because most of it came from sexual frustration and never even having kissed a girl.

I remember he tells the story from the very beginning, describing his early years as a happy kid and then everything turning dark when his parents got divorced and he had to live in two different homes. Also, his life in those years seem to have been pretty unstable, moving from one place to another, changing schools, having lots of different nannies.... I particularly think that in those formative years, kids need a stable home with stable life, in order to feel safe and protected, not under alert all the time. THis is entirely his parents fault... the way he was raised is the reason why he was the way he was... he didn't seem to have a guidance in life either, someone to talk to.

I'm not sure that he wouldn't have ended up this way if he had gotten laid sooner or kissed a girl. The way he was scared of women and the way he idealized women was very unhealthy and weird. I really don't know where that comes from.... too much mother, maybe? I don't know, but if he had got into a relationship with a female, he would have jumped from virgin to obsessive, possesive, controlling, jealous and that would have affected him even more. His personality is the problem, not the women.

1 hour ago, soon said:

Oh, sorry for too much info. I can see how it would be a bit overwhelming. I just put the hyperlinks for anyone who was curious, didnt intend to suggest one had to read them all. But it was too much. Sometimes my brain gets away from me a bit. Also, I wrote that very early this morning. This may have played a role in the less than succinct format . Thanks for bearing with me!

I have the same general view as I think you are describing. How did they get so fixated on sex and virginity? Why would they turn to others in the same boat - doesnt seem like theyd be much help? I still cant figure if they arrive at hatred and rage independently and then find one another, or if they co-create this culture once connecting. According to the first link in my post Incel culture emerged from Pickup Artist culture. So I guess the general sense is that they have tried all that (gross) stuff and failed.

And I also agree about the guy in the video I posted. I thought he was attractive. Plus he's a leader in that he runs a chat room. He can carry a conversation. And he seemed confident talking to a pretty and smart women. And all of this on camera. I mean, he seems to have it all. So confusing.

Oh no, please! You misunderstood, lol .... I meant that this whole thing is overwhelming but not because you posted lots of links, just because the subject is complicated, I can't figure out where it is coming from and that bothers me

Maybe in order to understand this we have to connect the "signs of times"... It seems like many of these guys were "raised" in the 4-Chan, Reddit communities (and probably video games communities) where this kind of information circulates among young boys.

That kind of shit didn't exist in my time, lol, I remember we read some mags, though but they didn't have the impact these social networks have.... besides you can interact with people on real-time, everyday, the bondage is formed, some sort of camaraderie with strangers, which is the basis of the Internet.

And then there's the new wave of feminism, to which the Incel thing seems to be some sort of backlash, probably because when you grow up among computers and video games, you lose all life perspective and at an age where you are supposed to be learning how to interact with others in real life, you are just playing games and talking to others through a microphone and monitor

Social skills are learned in real life, so I guess we are now attending to the consequences of having kids raised with video games and social media..... lunatics who freak out because they don't know how to start relationships with people in the real world.

The guy in the video is initially physically attractive but there's something about him that puts me off..... I dont know if it is that nervous smoking or just knowing what he does....... Looks are not everything in order to attract other people. If only good-looking ones were meant to get laid, come on.... this world wouldn't be so populated ..... the problem is the way people are raised, it begins at home, the role models they get to follow and education too.

It seems that the male supremacy groups that are looking for followers are also to blame, as they indoctrinate these virgins into hating women, which is easy because they are already weak and enraged. The other problem is that subcultures are not bad per se, except when all they are seeking is murder, damage, hurting people.... that's fucked up...... so I am having a hard time understanding the connection between a frustrated virgin person and this same person turning into a criminal because of it.

1 hour ago, janrichmond said:

What is the average age of an incel?? why have i never heard of this thing? I'm gonna have a google now...

They seem to be in their early 20's.

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by killuridols

[Len Cnut]

1 hour ago, janrichmond said:

What is the average age of an incel?? why have i never heard of this thing? I'm gonna have a google now...

Cuz its not really a thing, just a name that a bunch of sad normans gave people of their kind because sad norman doesn't sound cool.  

Quote

but his real problems started when he hit puberty and got sexually frustrated

Oh welcome to the club dickhead (not you, the psycho), I was sexually frustrated ever since I got a funny feeling watching Kylie Minogue videos when I was 8, I never killed no one, I just went to the bathtub for a bit  

[janrichmond]

@Len Cnut have you heard of these incels before?

[killuridols]

lol we are all so fucking old or what is our life so amazing that we never heard of these Incels assholes?

Never thought it'd come the day when I had to start learning new subgroups/subcultures.

Viva el grunge, man!

[Dazey]

4 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

@Len Cnut have you heard of these incels before?

Nah but he has been in cells more than most.  

[janrichmond]

2 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Nah but he has been in cells more than most.  

I thought they were a terrorist group until yesterday  

 

[Len Cnut]

6 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

@Len Cnut have you heard of these incels before?

I first heard of it from this thread actually I think.  Did I?  No, I think I read about that muppet first like a fortnight ago and then googled it.  Hardly deserves its own special name though, being a fuckin' wanker   His videos are actually really funny.

Just now, janrichmond said:

I thought they were a terrorist group until yesterday  

 

Have a day off Jan, for fuckssake