Our Interview with Doug Goldstein (Former GNR Manager)

[Propaganda]

3 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Doug changed his version again about the contract signing off the name to Axl. In Mick Wall's book he said he was there, in Barcelona 1993, saving it from being "under duress". Now he's back at what he had been saying before: he wasn't there because his son was born and doesn't know anything about the circumstances. So did Mick Wall misquote him? Does Doug claim he did? Because he only said that Mick Wall's book made him look bad and Alan Niven a hero.

He says he didn't approve of Yoda and made a couple of attempts to talk Axl out of that thing, but it was "Axl's time and money". Then he says that Yoda told him to sell his managing company to Merck but not tell Axl, because she would tell him herself; but she didn't and Axl was mad at Doug, which resulted to him being fired. So Doug made a business decision and didn't tell Axl just because Yoda told him to, although he wasn't a "believer"? (!) He doesn't seem to be so naive. Something doesn't add up here. And that makes me think: maybe it was Doug who was using Yoda trying to manipulate Axl, and not the other way around?

Doug takes credit, among other things, for predicting SCOM would be a hit and wanting it to be the first single (he says Tom Zutaut said no), for the idea of making GnR Lies, for renegotiating the contract with Geffen to the benefit of the band (he says Niven helped but not as much as he claims) and... for Eminem getting signed (!)

I don't know if it's true that all the UYI shows were sold out; mine wasn't. Unless he was referring only to the US shows. But still I don't think they were all sold out.

The saddest thing that came out of this interview, which we already knew, is the lack of communication in the band. They communicated through Doug and everything said was filtered by him. Doug is not solely to be blamed for that, of course. But he is full of himself for being in that position and seems to have enjoyed having such power. He says he did a big service to the band by not letting Axl know how the other band members felt about him; in Mick Wall's book he said he regretted doing that (again: was he misquoted?). Of course he didn't forget to mention over and over again how much he loved Axl and everyone else.

TB may not be qualified managers and they are probably incompetent for the job, but I hope Doug Goldstein never goes near the band again.

Anyway, the interview was worth watching for a few anecdotes, many of which can be true, like:

- When Doug first met the band in 1987 he got along well with everyone except Izzy, who thought Doug was an undercover cop

- The conversation between Axl and David Lee Roth after Donington '88. David Lee Roth comes across as a big asshole.

- Axl's stepfather being an asshole.

- Dave Mustaine banging on Doug's door in RIR shouting he wanted to talk to Axl.

- Duff being scared in Bogota.

- Axl's reaction on Kurt Cobain and Shannon Hoon's deaths.

- Axl not liking Maynard from Tool for some weird Yoda related reason.

- Doug getting a phone call after an interview (the one with Mitch Lafon in 2015, I guess) by one of Axl's lawyers telling him to stop talking on behalf of Axl. Doug says he told him to fuck off, then Axl called and asked him not to do interviews because he was trying to repair a past relationship (meaning Slash). Doug says he respected Axl's wish and didn't do any more interviews; he talked to Mick Wall though, unless that was before Mitch Lafon. But now he says he sees no reason not to talk. I guess he wouldn't have imagined that Axl and Slash would work things out and he would be left out.

I was surprised there was no mention of Axl/DC during the interview, for example if Doug expected Axl to do something like that.

But Doug just shitted on Mick Wall a couple of times on the podcast, which means Mick Wall is not quite the good source to compare to.

[Blackstar]

1 minute ago, Propaganda said:

But Doug just shitted on Mick Wall a couple of times on the podcast, which means Mick Wall is not quite the good source to compare to.

I'm not comparing, Mick Wall is full of shit. But Doug is quoted in his book saying these things, and there's a difference between making someone look bad with comments on the quotes and misquoting someone/twisting their words.

[janrichmond]

26 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I'm not comparing, Mick Wall is full of shit. But Doug is quoted in his book saying these things, and there's a difference between making someone look bad with comments on the quotes and misquoting someone/twisting their words.

I think Doug believes he is a star and thinks everybody should be grateful to him for being such a great manager. I found him to be just as slimy as i thought he would be. He kept saying he never lies!! Bollox he doesn't lie!! That bloke creeps me out...was he coked up? I think he was 

[PatrickS77]

51 minutes ago, Propaganda said:

You just answered your own question and agreed with my post. They're glorified assistants - they're given way too much credit! And they do what Axl wants them to do, which means that they don't establish deadlines for Axl to work under, they don't put any kind of pressure on him and they are unable to classify properly any music that Axl does.

A) i don't think I've posed a question and B) I don't quite agree with you. You (and others) blame them for things supposedly going wrong/not happening e.g. not going the way you want them to go, because they botch them up, since they are no professional managers and things would go better if they would leave and let real managers do their job and that they arenonly there because Axl threw them a bone/did them a favour. I say they are there, because Axl doesn't want a real manager, but wants somebody doing what he says instead. And that is the reason why things go the way they go, because Axl is the boss and no one is there telling him to do things he doesn't want to do. You can't blame or hate on TB when they don't have any free reign and have to deal with and respect the wishes of Axl, who is their boss/provider/lifeline/whatever.

[PatrickS77]

1 hour ago, tremolo said:

The problem there has always been Axl, despite who has been managing the whole circus.

TB has a pretty well developed trajectory of wasted oportunities.

With your first point I agree, but quite strongly disagree with the second.  Why blame them, when in all likelyhood it is Axl who's calling the shots?

[Tori72]

The interview was very interesting. Never seen or heard Doug before, only read interviews. In this interview I managed to put together the powergameing and that somewhat overemotional „I love Axl so much bla bla“ together. What I was seeing was a guy boasting, being completely insensitive to human needs, interaction and communication, violent (fighting of threating to fight someone seems to be his default mode), and utterly sleazy and slimey. I found him manipulative, too.

That shedding tears for Duff (even though he is living healthy now for almost as long as he was jaded) creeped me out and I thought it was fake and pathetic.

He is full.of.shit. 

 

Edited March 30, 2018 by Tori72

[PatrickS77]

31 minutes ago, tremolo said:

I guess GNR management is just a made up position then, since Axl won’t allow real management.

Yes. I guess so too.

[killuridols]

On 29 de marzo de 2018 at 3:05 PM, Kwick1 said:

NITLT tour has been hugely successful. It was the highest grossing tour of 2017. Whether it could have been more successful will always be questioned but as far as GnR, they gave the fans what they've long been waiting for,  shows with as close to the original 5 as we'll ever see. I know when we get a litte, we want more. It's human nature. But our favorite band shouldn't come under attack for giving fans what they wanted. 

 I have no idea what your response has to do with mine.

I haven't attacked GN'R at all. You were reading someone else.

[Gaanzer]

20 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

But it's not what you hope and want. You act like Axl never had a manager before. It's those experiences that made him realize that TB is what he wants/needs. And really managing AC/DC was easy. As they didn't have Axl Rose in the band.

Now they do. 😁😁

[Spirit]

There are some controllable facts he gets wrong here...

- He talked about Moby coming in during the Use Your Illusion sessions, trying to find the right producer. Isn't it established that he had contact with Axl in 1997, years later?

- He thought Axl/Izzy performed Sympathy for the Devil with the Stones in 1989.

 

Not big things, but still, maybe we shouldn't take all his other accounts of what happened as gospel.

[Spirit]

From Moby:

 

Edited March 30, 2018 by Spirit
quoted post by mistake

[Ratam]

17 minutes ago, Spirit said:

There are some controllable facts he gets wrong here...

- He talked about Moby coming in during the Use Your Illusion sessions, trying to find the right producer. Isn't it established that he had contact with Axl in 1997, years later?

- He thought Axl/Izzy performed Sympathy for the Devil with the Stones in 1989.

 

Not big things, but still, maybe we shouldn't take all his other accounts of what happened as gospel.

You are right, same thing noted @Blackstarhimself to be contradict.

[J Dog]

6 hours ago, janrichmond said:

I think Doug believes he is a star and thinks everybody should be grateful to him for being such a great manager. I found him to be just as slimy as i thought he would be. He kept saying he never lies!! Bollox he doesn't lie!! That bloke creeps me out...was he coked up? I think he was 

On that charlie. Goatmouth!

[double talkin jive mfkr]

19 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Doug changed his version again about the contract signing off the name to Axl. In Mick Wall's book he said he was there, in Barcelona 1993, saving it from being "under duress". Now he's back at what he had been saying before: he wasn't there because his son was born and doesn't know anything about the circumstances. So did Mick Wall misquote him? Does Doug claim he did? Because he only said that Mick Wall's book made him look bad and Alan Niven a hero.

He says he didn't approve of Yoda and made a couple of attempts to talk Axl out of that thing, but it was "Axl's time and money". Then he says that Yoda told him to sell his managing company to Merck but not tell Axl, because she would tell him herself; but she didn't and Axl was mad at Doug, which resulted to him being fired. So Doug made a business decision and didn't tell Axl just because Yoda told him to, although he wasn't a "believer"? (!) He doesn't seem to be so naive. Something doesn't add up here. And that makes me think: maybe it was Doug who was using Yoda trying to manipulate Axl, and not the other way around?

Doug takes credit, among other things, for predicting SCOM would be a hit and wanting it to be the first single (he says Tom Zutaut said no), for the idea of making GnR Lies, for renegotiating the contract with Geffen to the benefit of the band (he says Niven helped but not as much as he claims) and... for Eminem getting signed (!)

I don't know if it's true that all the UYI shows were sold out; mine wasn't. Unless he was referring only to the US shows. But still I don't think they were all sold out.

The saddest thing that came out of this interview, which we already knew, is the lack of communication in the band. They communicated through Doug and everything said was filtered by him. Doug is not solely to be blamed for that, of course. But he is full of himself for being in that position and seems to have enjoyed having such power. He says he did a big service to the band by not letting Axl know how the other band members felt about him; in Mick Wall's book he said he regretted doing that (again: was he misquoted?). Of course he didn't forget to mention over and over again how much he loved Axl and everyone else.

TB may not be qualified managers and they are probably incompetent for the job, but I hope Doug Goldstein never goes near the band again.

Anyway, the interview was worth watching for a few anecdotes, many of which can be true, like:

- When Doug first met the band in 1987 he got along well with everyone except Izzy, who thought Doug was an undercover cop

- The conversation between Axl and David Lee Roth after Donington '88. David Lee Roth comes across as a big asshole.

- Axl's stepfather being an asshole.

- Dave Mustaine banging on Doug's door in RIR shouting he wanted to talk to Axl.

- Duff being scared in Bogota.

- Axl's reaction on Kurt Cobain and Shannon Hoon's deaths.

- Axl not liking Maynard from Tool for some weird Yoda related reason.

- Doug getting a phone call after an interview (the one with Mitch Lafon in 2015, I guess) by one of Axl's lawyers telling him to stop talking on behalf of Axl. Doug says he told him to fuck off, then Axl called and asked him not to do interviews because he was trying to repair a past relationship (meaning Slash). Doug says he respected Axl's wish and didn't do any more interviews; he talked to Mick Wall though, unless that was before Mitch Lafon. But now he says he sees no reason not to talk. I guess he wouldn't have imagined that Axl and Slash would work things out and he would be left out.

I was surprised there was no mention of Axl/DC during the interview, for example if Doug expected Axl to do something like that.

i believe doug was a government hired spook and informant that created the division of the band and toyed with people as much as possible to break it up to nothing 

look at his involvement from 91-2002 ultimate nosedive the band did well done dougie 

izzy was right 

Edited March 31, 2018 by double talkin jive mfkr

[Tori72]

3 hours ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

i believe dog was a government hired spook and informant that created the division of the band and toyed with people as much as possible to break it up to nothing 

look at his involvement from 91-2002 ultimate nosedive the band did well done dougie 

izzy was right 

He does look like an undercover cop!

[downzy]

Oh boy...  

I would highly recommend to everyone to take most of what Doug says with a grain of salt.  

A big part of Doug's problem, I think, is he still thinks it's 1992.  He seems to think the music industry operates today the same way it did in the late 80s/early 90s; that Axl/Slash/Duff are the same people now as they were back when he was the manager.  The total lack of awareness is shocking for as to why Doug thinks Axl doesn't want anything to do with him.  Most fans likely know by now that Axl, someone who is notoriously private, might not wanting anything to do with someone who spills his guts about his "best friend" to someone like Mick Wall (or is willing to talk for three hours about deeply personal stuff to random guys for a youtube podcast - no offence to Sid and co.)?  

Doug might also want to check the contracts he signed with Guns with respect disclosure clauses.  It was only a couple of years ago Doug clammed up pretty quickly after doing one interview, and from my understanding it wasn't because Axl asked him politely.   

It's also difficult to understand where Doug gets the nerve to question the performance of previous and successive management when he was present and oversaw the great unwinding of the band.  Under his management GNR went from the biggest band in the world to a band in name only within three or four years.  Not that it's all on the manager, but the fact remains the band totally fell apart under his watch.  He's not in any great position to level criticisms at others.  

The notion that Doug would do things differently with respect to the most recent tours is also nuts.  Bands as big as GNR generally are paid large upfronts these days and there's less consideration for audience targets, and hence there's less of a need for interviews and self-promotion.  For a guy so removed, how does he know what the band is being paid, whether attendance targets are considered, and the pay schedule should they hit said targets?  The truth is, he doesn't.  

I don't know where he's getting the assumption that the band doesn't do press because TB simply decided against it?  You'd think someone as smart as Doug claims to be would know that the smart move would be to mitigate any possibility of something being taken out of context in the press.  The band is making money hand-over-fist, why risk the operation when something could be said out of context or reported inaccurately? 

You also have to wonder how such a brilliant manager was apparently always the runner-up to manage seminal acts like Blind Melon, Smashing Pumpkins, Limp Bizket, and the Black Crows and has never managed anyone of note since managing Guns.  And somehow, the guy who, according to Doug, is single-handily responsible for Lies, GNR's cover of Since I Don't Have You, and Eminem is now sitting on a billion dollar shoe idea.  Okay.

I don't want to knock the guy too much.  It sounds like he has some worthy causes and since I don't know him personally I can't speak to his character.  But like the guy who caught a fish twenty years ago, there's a strong whiff of exaggeration in a lot of what he says.  

Finally, for those wanting to bad mouth or criticize present or former management, I'd ask that you first define what you think a manager actually does (hint: it's not promotion and getting artists to release music).   Management represents their clients, and as such, it's almost impossible to determine a manager's performance from a fan's perspective.  Unless anyone here actually works in the industry and knows what the going rate for a reunion show/tour with a band as big as Guns is, there's no way to tell whether TB is maximizing every earning opportunity for GNR with respect to the tour.  Again, tour promotion isn't really a manager's responsibility.  That's what bands pay tour promoters for.

We'll leave this thread open for a little longer but if I'm being honest, there's just so much nonsense it doesn't seem worth it.

[Eric Cantona]

On 30.3.2018 at 4:40 PM, Blackstar said:

- Axl not liking Maynard 

Nobody does

[sidman69]

looks like our interview made Brett's site

 

http://www.alternativenation.net/axl-roses-heartbreaking-reaction-kurt-cobains-death-revealed/

 

http://www.alternativenation.net/pearl-jam-turned-down-huge-guns-n-roses-offer-in-brutal-way/

[Carmenjello]

These headlines are so ridiculous

[Kwick1]

On 3/30/2018 at 3:55 PM, killuridols said:

 I have no idea what your response has to do with mine.

I haven't attacked GN'R at all. You were reading someone else.

Still figuring the quote thing out. Meant to respond to an earlier post, one I think you were responding too. Have a blessed Easter. 

[Scream of the Butterfly]

Great interview! Regardless of what anybody thinks of Alan Niven or Doug Goldstein as people or as managers, I've never seen either one disappoint as interviewees!

The whole thing about Yoda never ceases to amaze me. How could adults of normal intelligence fall for such an obvious scam?

[sidman69]

1 minute ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

Great interview! Regardless of what anybody thinks of Alan Niven or Doug Goldstein as people or as managers, I've never seen either one disappoint as interviewees!

The whole thing about Yoda never ceases to amaze me. How could adults of normal intelligence fall for such an obvious scam?

yeah i was thinking the same thing.

[RazorGunner]

4 hours ago, Carmenjello said:

These headlines are so ridiculous

As is virtually everything from that site, it truly is no honor to be associated with alternative nation. 👎

[themadcaplaughs]

Doug seems like a genuine and nice guy, but my God, he seems like the music business equivalent of the dude who cannot stop reliving the "glory days" from high school. 

[Ratam]

5 minutes ago, themadcaplaughs said:

Doug seems like a genuine and nice guy, but my God, he seems like the music business equivalent of the dude who cannot stop reliving the "glory days" from high school. 

Doug=Steven