How do you feel towards Axl Rose these days?

[Order of Nine]

1 hour ago, tsinindy said:

wow, you really drink the Kool Aid.  That's cool though, it apparently tastes good to you.  

I thought it was a really good album. Politics aside I think the music stands on it's own. If getting the music translates to drinking Kool aid then so be it.

[Order of Nine]

32 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Rebelling against yourself it is not being rebellious!  

Especially when all you do is digging your own grave with such "rebellion"... There's absolutely not one iota of rebellion and boldness in what he did. It was just the crazy mind of a hateful man who destroyed his own career and now he had to go back where he started so that he wouldn't sink even more from all the "rebellion" he did to himself.

No one else wasted more time, money, talent and key band members than Axl Rose in the past 2 decades. The results of it were not worth any "rebellion". 

Oh and the money game, LOL, it is called NITL now. Fans giving the middle finger to the 'rebel without a cause' Rose, making it clear that a GN'R sans Slash is plain bullshit, unless he wants to keep playing Vegas hotels.

It's called following your heart and staying true to your own creativity. Something most musicians don't do because they feel they have to constantly "serve and please" the fans. Now that's pathetic and lame..

Yeah not compromising to the will of the industry and fans is the best example of rebellion I can think of from any mainstream rock band in recent years. Caving into the demands and playing it safe is NOT an act of rebellion or would it show conviction or character, that would have been an easy route.

Come on, this is common sense. This isn't too hard to analyze.

[Blackstar]

17 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Yes, I know Chinese splits opinion but however one views it, there isn't an ''Estranged'' on there, is there, and we'd have to assume the better sort of material made album #1 (from a said ''trilogy'')? Rose's songwriting peaked with the lyrical Illusion epics, and perhaps he simply didn't have much left after that. If he had some masterpieces in the vault you'd have to believe he would want to get them out there!

He has stated that the people who didn't like CD won't like the unreleased stuff either, if and when it ever sees the light of the day.

[marlingrl03]

1 hour ago, WhazUp said:

Not that Axl didn't have some not-as-good moments, and granted I didn't follow 2017 shows as much as 2016, but at least all the 2016 shows I was at or saw via Youtube I thought he sounded great!  2017 was more spotty from what I saw for sure, but I thought there were some great points from what I remember checking out, no?

I saw Guns in San Antonio in Sept 2017....thought that Axl and the whole band sounded stellar. Was almost a 4 hour show cause Axl kept wanting to sing! During the encore he told us to tell our friends at home that we were gonna be late lol. His voice definitely got stronger the latter part of 2017 imho! 

[Tadsy]

I loved the Sydney show I went too, it was a bucket list moment for me seeing slash n Axl back up there together, they sounded great. 

But let's not try and pretend it was 1991 anymore, not a shade on that, but I walked away thinking I could die a happy man now I'd seen it at least once! 😜

 

 

[killuridols]

7 hours ago, Order of Nine said:

It's called following your heart and staying true to your own creativity. Something most musicians don't do because they feel they have to constantly "serve and please" the fans. Now that's pathetic and lame..

Yeah not compromising to the will of the industry and fans is the best example of rebellion I can think of from any mainstream rock band in recent years. Caving into the demands and playing it safe is NOT an act of rebellion or would it show conviction or character, that would have been an easy route.

Come on, this is common sense. This isn't too hard to analyze.

The fact that you don't understand the real meaning of the word rebellious doesn't make CD to be one of those albums.

Axl got to that point because he couldn't find another. He himself said how hard it was for him to replace Slash, so I don't think he did what he wanted but what he could with what it was left or with what he was allowed to have.

The biggest proof of this not being a rebellious act at is the fact of Axl returning to Slash and Duff and having lost the band members of the band he put together to be a rebel against the system 

His nuGN'R imploded just like the original one and he came back to what he said he never would. Where is the rebellion? He finally caved in to what the industry and fans wanted.

[Order of Nine]

2 hours ago, killuridols said:

The fact that you don't understand the real meaning of the word rebellious doesn't make CD to be one of those albums.

Axl got to that point because he couldn't find another. He himself said how hard it was for him to replace Slash, so I don't think he did what he wanted but what he could with what it was left or with what he was allowed to have.

The biggest proof of this not being a rebellious act at is the fact of Axl returning to Slash and Duff and having lost the band members of the band he put together to be a rebel against the system 

His nuGN'R imploded just like the original one and he came back to what he said he never would. Where is the rebellion? He finally caved in to what the industry and fans wanted.

Why do you deliberately leave out details...

Slash wanted back for years, there was also money offered for them to reunite long before the NITL tour. If it was all about money this would have happened years ago, that would have been the EASY way out, the way out to take to play it safe.

Going against the industry and fan base was an indirect act of rebellion cause he wanted to make the record with people that would progress forward INSPITE of the repercussions and backlash..

The time replacing various people has alot to do with this, the time.and persistence it took to pull it off shows conviction and the more time passed the less support this line up was going to receive, they aren't dumb they knew this.

His new band "imploded". Actually alot of those people were in the band longer then the original band that imploded before they had illusions recorded. Anyone can see how the new line up had much more tenacity to see things thru with cards stacked against them. 

Slash returned cause of Duff and most likely his divorce, regardless of that he has wanted back in guns a long time ago. If it was all about money this would have been inked up long ago. Slash coming back dosent erase the YEARS that Axl spent doing things his way, the hardest possible way. 

Your not making any sense.

[Ace Nova]

44 minutes ago, Order of Nine said:

 

 Anyone can see how the new line up had much more tenacity to see things thru with cards stacked against them. 

 

Apples and Oranges.  The classic lineup were partners.  The new lineup were made up of paid employees.  They were getting a check no matter what happened with the band.  So all this "tenacity" talk is nonsense. 

If they thought they could do better than being in Guns N' Roses, they could have easily left.  Some did, others stuck around.  But trying to make them sound like some sort of heroes for sticking around, collecting paychecks, when most of them were relatively unknown, other than being in Guns N' Roses, is nonsense.

 

[Order of Nine]

1 hour ago, Kasanova King said:

Apples and Oranges.  The classic lineup were partners.  The new lineup were made up of paid employees.  They were getting a check no matter what happened with the band.  So all this "tenacity" talk is nonsense. 

If they thought they could do better than being in Guns N' Roses, they could have easily left.  Some did, others stuck around.  But trying to make them sound like some sort of heroes for sticking around, collecting paychecks, when most of them were relatively unknown, other than being in Guns N' Roses, is nonsense.

 

And who made more money and had less headaches and didn't face an uphill battle????? All while collecting royalties.

Bottom line is, follow the money. If Axl wanted to he could have easily done this reunion long ago and the label and industry and fan would have been elated. It was resisted.

[Ace Nova]

Just now, Order of Nine said:

And who made more money and had less headaches and didn't face an uphill battle????? All while collecting royalties.

And?  They earned those royalties because they were freaking rock stars who sold over 100 million albums worldwide.

How many albums did the new lineup guys sell on their own, outside of GN'R?

How many?????

That's right.  Enough said.

 

[killuridols]

1 hour ago, Order of Nine said:

Why do you deliberately leave out details...

Slash wanted back for years, there was also money offered for them to reunite long before the NITL tour. If it was all about money this would have happened years ago, that would have been the EASY way out, the way out to take to play it safe.

Going against the industry and fan base was an indirect act of rebellion cause he wanted to make the record with people that would progress forward INSPITE of the repercussions and backlash..

The time replacing various people has alot to do with this, the time.and persistence it took to pull it off shows conviction and the more time passed the less support this line up was going to receive, they aren't dumb they knew this.

His new band "imploded". Actually alot of those people were in the band longer then the original band that imploded before they had illusions recorded. Anyone can see how the new line up had much more tenacity to see things thru with cards stacked against them. 

Slash returned cause of Duff and most likely his divorce, regardless of that he has wanted back in guns a long time ago. If it was all about money this would have been inked up long ago. Slash coming back dosent erase the YEARS that Axl spent doing things his way, the hardest possible way. 

Your not making any sense.

Who talked about money? Lol, your subconscious betrayed you there. I never mentioned any $$$$ 

Making CD with the hacks was all he could do because he didn't want to give up the GN'R brand. He wanted to changed musical direction when Slash and Duff were still in the band and that didn't work out. Eventually they left and Axl was band-less. 

He didn't want to start a solo career because he thought he was bigger than the sum of its parts. He used the GN'R name to save efforts on promoting a new band of unknowns, but he failed anyway. Fans couldn't be fooled that easily.

The first lineup of the nuGNR imploded years before CD was released.

Not true the original line up imploded before the Illusions were recorded. Only Steven was out and he even got to record Civil War. The rest of the band did record the Illusions and toured it, until Izzy was gone. It was in the late 90s when all members left. Illusions was released in 1991.

Slash returned because Axl called him back, regardless of what he wanted or not wanted before. He would have never come back if Axl had not made that call.

The persistence only shows stubbornness and inability to go back on track, impossibility to release more than one album in 2 decades. He would be rebellious if he had been able to maintain that first lineup he put together and had released a number of material that would have cemented his rebellious efforts, to never return to what he rebeled against in first place.

[Order of Nine]

20 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

And?  They earned those royalties because they were freaking rock stars who sold over 100 million albums worldwide.

How many albums did the new lineup guys sell on their own, outside of GN'R?

How many?????

That's right.  Enough said.

 

Pretty well considering, and of course anyone who came in was going to get a paycheck. Why you choose to hold that against anyone is ridiculous.

[Ace Nova]

7 minutes ago, Order of Nine said:

Pretty well considering, and of course anyone who came in was going to get a paycheck. Why you choose to hold that against anyone is ridiculous.

You make zero sense.  There isn't even a comparison in terms of "respect earned" between the classic lineup and the 'Nu Guns' lineup.  95% of fans don't even know who most of the 'Nu Guns' lineup were.

Personally, I respect 'Nu Guns' for what they did for the band and Axl, etc...but when I start to hear completey insane comments, like they somehow deserve more respect than the classic lineup, that's when I draw the line and put an end to that nonsense.

 

 

Edited April 17, 2018 by Kasanova King

[Order of Nine]

4 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

You make zero sense.  There isn't even a comparison in terms of "respect earned" between the classic lineup and the 'Nu Guns' lineup.  95% of fans don't even know who most of the 'Nu Guns' lineup were.

Personally, I respect 'Nu Guns' for what they did for the band and Axl, etc...but when I start to hear completey insane comments, like they somehow deserve more respect than the classic lineup, that's when I draw the line and put an end to that nonsense.

 

 

I didn't say on what level they earned or should have respect. I said they did what they set out to do in spite of the mountains of hurdles.

24 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Who talked about money? Lol, your subconscious betrayed you there. I never mentioned any $$$$ 

Making CD with the hacks was all he could do because he didn't want to give up the GN'R brand. He wanted to changed musical direction when Slash and Duff were still in the band and that didn't work out. Eventually they left and Axl was band-less. 

He didn't want to start a solo career because he thought he was bigger than the sum of its parts. He used the GN'R name to save efforts on promoting a new band of unknowns, but he failed anyway. Fans couldn't be fooled that easily.

The first lineup of the nuGNR imploded years before CD was released.

Not true the original line up imploded before the Illusions were recorded. Only Steven was out and he even got to record Civil War. The rest of the band did record the Illusions and toured it, until Izzy was gone. It was in the late 90s when all members left. Illusions was released in 1991.

Slash returned because Axl called him back, regardless of what he wanted or not wanted before. He would have never come back if Axl had not made that call.

The persistence only shows stubbornness and inability to go back on track, impossibility to release more than one album in 2 decades. He would be rebellious if he had been able to maintain that first lineup he put together and had released a number of material that would have cemented his rebellious efforts, to never return to what he rebeled against in first place.

"The hacks" ok Steven. That's just nonsense. 

"Fans couldn't be fooled" no shit Sherlock and that's exactly my point he did what he wanted to do creatively regardless of knowing that and how much backlash h got. He didn't care!

Yes the band was breaking up durring the illusions recordings, Izzy was mentally checked out, Axl pushed for his material to be used. Steven was a train wreck and Izzy didnt want to tour around with addicts since he was sober. Facts are facts.

Slash went to Axls house over 12 years ago, Slash has wanted back in guns for a long time.of course it's "Axls call" it's his band! DK and Bumble knew Duff had helped that relationship between slash and Axl and they left, that wasn't an "implosion" that was a natural progression of events.

The persistence was an act of followig his own heart and creativity, so yes that ended up being viewed as a liability for a pay day among various industry big wigs..

[Ace Nova]

1 minute ago, Order of Nine said:

I didn't say on what level they earned or should have respect. I said they did what they set out to do in spite of the mountains of hurdles.

I don't really disagree with you there.  I just don't think it was as "hard" as you seem to think it was.

I mean, if I was a musician, I wouldn't mind being in one of the greatest rock bands in history and getting paid for it.  

[Order of Nine]

4 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

I don't really disagree with you there.  I just don't think it was as "hard" as you seem to think it was.

I mean, if I was a musician, I wouldn't mind being in one of the greatest rock bands in history and getting paid for it.  

I wouldn't call that a walk in the park, they could have all left and found something much easier with less media and fan backlash that took a fraction of the time to complete.

[killuridols]

2 hours ago, Order of Nine said:

I didn't say on what level they earned or should have respect. I said they did what they set out to do in spite of the mountains of hurdles.

"The hacks" ok Steven. That's just nonsense. 

"Fans couldn't be fooled" no shit Sherlock and that's exactly my point he did what he wanted to do creatively regardless of knowing that and how much backlash h got. He didn't care!

Yes the band was breaking up durring the illusions recordings, Izzy was mentally checked out, Axl pushed for his material to be used. Steven was a train wreck and Izzy didnt want to tour around with addicts since he was sober. Facts are facts.

Slash went to Axls house over 12 years ago, Slash has wanted back in guns for a long time.of course it's "Axls call" it's his band! DK and Bumble knew Duff had helped that relationship between slash and Axl and they left, that wasn't an "implosion" that was a natural progression of events.

The persistence was an act of followig his own heart and creativity, so yes that ended up being viewed as a liability for a pay day among various industry big wigs..

The original lineup managed to record 2 albums and then without Steven, they recorded UYI. In spite of all the problems, they remained together to do that. Then lost Izzy but they completed a tour and it was years later that it finally disintegrated.

Up to 1996, there was a GN'R album in the plans and all of them were trying to not break up.

With the nuGN'R, first lineup imploded several years before they released their material. Buckethead, Finck and Brain had left a long time ago before CD was out. So it's not comparable with the original band situation at all.

 

[username]

On 11-4-2018 at 12:28 AM, killuridols said:

Picked "Frustrated at his lack of ability to put out new music" since it is the only thing that makes sense to demand from him.

Because...

* Admiration for making amends with Slash and the reunion.... Fixing relationships is a must, especially one like that. Admiring someone because they had to eat their pride is not something I consider should be "admired".

* Disappointed at him for "selling out".... huh? how did he sell out? That was the right thing to do. NuGuns is a stupid idea, a shot in the foot.

* Angry at him for his half baked idea of a reunion.... Yeah, the half-assed reunion is not the best of things but being angry is not the feeling I have for it. Disappointment fits better.

* In awe that he has managed to front both GNR reunion and ACDC .... lol, no, he's been an artist for most of his life so I can't be in awe for what he's supposed to be good at.
I'd be in awe if it was myself fronting those two bands

 

 

This is a rational and sensible response. Are you sure you belong on a GnR forum? 

[Order of Nine]

6 hours ago, killuridols said:

The original lineup managed to record 2 albums and then without Steven, they recorded UYI. In spite of all the problems, they remained together to do that. Then lost Izzy but they completed a tour and it was years later that it finally disintegrated.

Up to 1996, there was a GN'R album in the plans and all of them were trying to not break up.

With the nuGN'R, first lineup imploded several years before they released their material. Buckethead, Finck and Brain had left a long time ago before CD was out. So it's not comparable with the original band situation at all.

 

The nugnr lineup had members in it double the time the original lineup dissolved. 

You can hate the line up and the music that's subjective but you can't twist the facts.

[Tom-Ass]

22 hours ago, WhazUp said:

Not that Axl didn't have some not-as-good moments, and granted I didn't follow 2017 shows as much as 2016, but at least all the 2016 shows I was at or saw via Youtube I thought he sounded great!  2017 was more spotty from what I saw for sure, but I thought there were some great points from what I remember checking out, no?

There were great points at almost every if not every show.. Some songs he consistently sounded great on but more that he didn't. I thought over all he was good just enough for it to work. 

[killuridols]

1 hour ago, Order of Nine said:

The nugnr lineup had members in it double the time the original lineup dissolved. 

You can hate the line up and the music that's subjective but you can't twist the facts.

The nuGnR lineup is not just one, as you insist on trying to fool others. 

There was an "OMG lineup", a "RIR 3 lineup", a "2002/2003 lineup", a "2006/2007 lineup" and a "2009/2014 lineup". Many members came in and out during all those years, some of them lasted the same amount of time as the original lineup or the UYI lineup.

Without counting these last two years of tour, Slash and Duff stayed in the band for 11 & 12 years respectively. Pretty much the same as Ferrer, Fortus and Pitman (not counting Axl & Dizzy who are eternal).

If we single out lead guitarists, we have: Slash (11 years), Finck (12 years), Bumblefoot (8 years), Ashba (6 years) and Buckethead (4 years).

Rhythm guitarists: Fortus (16 years), Paul Tobias (8 years), Izzy (6 years), Gilby Clarke (4 years)

Bassists: Stinson (16 years), Duff (12 years)

Drummers: Ferrer (12 years), Sorum (7 years), Brain (6 years), Adler (5 years), Freese (3 years)

I don't hate the lineups and I don't hate the music but you can't twist the fact that members time on the band doesn't translate into active and productive years.

You have a guy like Pitman with 16 years in the band, only to add some synths during shows and a couple of bollocks on CD.

And you have a guy like Izzy, 6 years in the band, lived to the fullest, where he founded the band and co-wrote most of the songs that are now part of GN'R legacy.

It is a funny thing that the people who stayed the longest are the ones who contributed the less to the band: Dizzy, Pitman, Fortus & Ferrer. 

Zero. Nada.

[Order of Nine]

9 minutes ago, killuridols said:

The nuGnR lineup is not just one, as you insist on trying to fool others. 

There was an "OMG lineup", a "RIR 3 lineup", a "2002/2003 lineup", a "2006/2007 lineup" and a "2009/2014 lineup". Many members came in and out during all those years, some of them lasted the same amount of time as the original lineup or the UYI lineup.

Without counting these last two years of tour, Slash and Duff stayed in the band for 11 & 12 years respectively. Pretty much the same as Ferrer, Fortus and Pitman (not counting Axl & Dizzy who are eternal).

If we single out lead guitarists, we have: Slash (11 years), Finck (12 years), Bumblefoot (8 years), Ashba (6 years) and Buckethead (4 years).

Rhythm guitarists: Fortus (16 years), Paul Tobias (8 years), Izzy (6 years), Gilby Clarke (4 years)

Bassists: Stinson (16 years), Duff (12 years)

Drummers: Ferrer (12 years), Sorum (7 years), Brain (6 years), Adler (5 years), Freese (3 years)

I don't hate the lineups and I don't hate the music but you can't twist the fact that members time on the band doesn't translate into active and productive years.

You have a guy like Pitman with 16 years in the band, only to add some synths during shows and a couple of bollocks on CD.

And you have a guy like Izzy, 6 years in the band, lived to the fullest, where he founded the band and co-wrote most of the songs that are now part of GN'R legacy.

It is a funny thing that the people who stayed the longest are the ones who contributed the less to the band: Dizzy, Pitman, Fortus & Ferrer. 

Zero. Nada.

I'm well aware of the line ups. Chinese was the only material that was released, there is alot more material. If that sees the light of day or new music is worked on or a bit of both is used is what remains to be seen. 

I highly doubt Fortus and company won't be featured on a new recording, they have stuck by Axls side and they think highly of eachother. So possibly In a few years you might have to eat your words.

Regarding Izzy, hasn't he released like 11 albums since Guns? Where are all the timeless and memorable songs from that catalog? Yes he was great working with Axl and company, but Imho none of the past alumni has been close to having ONE song that is of the caliber of a Guns release.

People seem to like Sorum around here, he is the epitome of a hired hand. What Guns song has he written music for??

 

[Fashionista]

To be honest, I don't really feel much toward Axl these days. Thinking too deeply about Axl just gets me down because I think of all the wasted years and wasted potential. Yeah, he did AFD and the UYIs and whatnot but pretty much the entirety of the 90s and 2000s and 2010s he did jack when he could've been doing so much more. He could've also been so much more than he was, but now he's near 60 and those windows are closed. All the wasted lineups and time just gets me down so I've kinda turned off my feelings for him. It is what it is.

[Fashionista]

On 4/13/2018 at 3:25 PM, DieselDaisy said:

Maybe Rose didn't have anything in the tank after Illusion. It is an, if my auntie had bollocks, sort of argument. 

True artists write under pressure. Axl's excuse in the 90s that he couldn't write lyrics because he would have nothing to write about besides lawsuits was bollocks. I honestly think he really exhausted his tank on the UYIs lyrically speaking. I mean he says everything on those records, what else could he have said on a follow up?

[Fashionista]

On 4/16/2018 at 2:20 AM, RONIN said:

Unpopular opinion here but probably closer to the truth than most would care to admit. Unless through some miracle Axl releases a boxset from that era to prove he wasn't completely tapped out creatively.

Had he not released Chinese Democracy - the "legend", while battered, would still be intact. He sort of outed himself and his creative exhaustion with that album. His big problem is that he has this iconic brand (GnR) that he can no longer evolve because his tastes have become diametrically different from his audience. GnR fans may sit through an Andrew Lloyd Weber ballad but they're not going to be game for an album full of songs like Prostitute's outro. And I think that's where his head has been at since the late 90's. Has this changed since he's potentially doing something with Angus? Maybe. His China Exchange interview makes me think the side project w/ Angus is more about him working with a childhood hero and less about the music. A fun one-off and nothing more.  I personally don't think this guy wants to crank out hard rock songs anymore. Hence, the radio silence re: new music.

 

 

Bingo. 

CD isn't a bad album IMO but it's so wildly inconsistent and when it came out, it was incredibly dated. It's a lot like Duke Nukem Forever in some ways. That game would've been cool if it had come out in 1998 as originally planned and no one would hate it. If CD came out in 99/2000 as Axl seemed to originally have wanted, it would've been relevent and a good album. Not GREAT, but I'm sure it could've done 5-6 mil in 1999 or 2000 and have a better legacy. But coming out in 2008...It felt like some relic from the late 90s/early 00s, and it made Axl appear...bland and vacant as an artist.