STEVEN ADLER: "Izzy is just as heartbroken as I am that the three of them decided to leave us out and bring three strangers in–who are those people?"

[EvanG]

47 minutes ago, Natty said:

So Slash was really superb in being an addicted musician ??!!! 

In a way, yes... there's a Chris Cornell quote on how impressed he was how well Slash could still play guitar no matter how much under the influence he was. There's also a Slash or Duff quote where they talked about not getting too wasted on the day of a show during the Illusion tour. Have there been shows where they were too fucked up to play their instrument? Probably, there's one show that Daisy referred to several times already, the one Duff mentioned in his book where he got too drunk and couldn't play his basslines anymore and had to rely on Sorum to make it to the end of the show. So yes, especially towards the end of the tour I bet there were shows where they fucked up too many times, but most of the times they could still function as musicians whereas Steven couldn't function at all anymore in the end. There was a line that Steven apparently crossed which got him sacked, and it was up to the band to decide where that line was.

[Eric Cantona]

who fucking cares

[Ratam]

4 minutes ago, AslatIE said:

who fucking cares

After pages 18 you said "who fucking care"❓

[Padme]

2 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Here's Slash talking about firing Steven (interview from 1991): See, [Steven] never quite made it to that growing up period that the rest of us went through. [...] I didn't want to go into the studio because his playing was just so far off. He'll argue with me even now and say, "I played great." But he didn't, he couldn't. The guy was nodding out all over the place. That went on for a couple of moths, and then I cancelled the studio time because it was a waste of money. So the only song on the album that Steven played on is "Civil War." He thought he was great, but we had to edit the drum track like mad just so we could play along with it. Even then, I had to remember where the drum mistakes were to keep the guitar in time with them.

OK, still it doesn't make Frank more talented than Adler. And Slash in his book said it was hypocritical from their part to fire Steven claming he couldn't play because of drugs. Steven on drums UYI songs. At that time he wasn't exactly sober

 

[Eric Cantona]

26 minutes ago, Ratam said:

After pages 18 you said "who fucking care"❓

way too many people

[DieselDaisy]

2 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Irrelevant. Everybody lies at times. Doesn't mean you can conveniently disregard as a liar any first-person source whose description of what actually took place goes against what you have decided is the truth. That's not how the world works, DieselDaisy.

I'm not disregarding ''any first-person source'' nor am I proclaiming absolute finite veracity upon the issue - obviously I was not privy to events. I have read all the sources and find the image of events they project questionable and hypocritical for the reasons outlined above, and propose an alternative interpretation - Ronin in fact makes an alternative argument better, involving removal of Adler from the partnership, etc. 

You have to remember you possess two opposing parties here, the business orientated ''partnership'' which was contracted by Adler's removal and soon descended to a series of lawsuits between its three remaining constituent members by the mid-00s, and Adler himself. To believe one and disregard the other would be historically reckless. 

[killuridols]

4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You have to remember you possess two opposing parties here, the business orientated ''partnership'' which was contracted by Adler's removal and soon descended to a series of lawsuits between its three remaining constituent members by the mid-00s, and Adler himself. To believe one and disregard the other would be historically reckless. 

Totally this ^^

All the quotes people are using to justify their argument are from the legal battle era against Adler.

What would Slash, Duff and Axl say back then? Of course, they had to defend their position. They were being sued and had to go to court. Making comments on the press contrary to what they were going to say on court would have made no sense! 

[DieselDaisy]

You have to remember, Guns settled with Adler for $2.5 million. When somebody settles out-of-court it presupposes a weakness of legal case. 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2018 by DieselDaisy

[Modano09]

5 hours ago, Padme said:

But they haven't ignored Adler. Axl had a chat with him for many hours in Vegas. Duff and Slash have colaborated with Adler. Slash son's band will be the opening act for Adler's shows. They never made a case against Adler in recent times. In fact Adler was a guest in a couple of shows. Even if they make a case against Adler. What about Izzy? They never explained the reason why neither Adler nor Izzy are part of the reunion as permanent members. In this band nobody is in a position to cast the first stone

All evidence points towards Izzy not being there because they couldn't come to an agreement and if that's the case, that's Izzy's story to tell. There's any number of obvious, logical reasons Adler's not going to be a permanent member so pick any combination of them.

[auad]

this is what happens when the artist does not present new materials ...
the fans get lost in a meaningless conversation, in the lack of what to do or to listen ...

Edited April 17, 2018 by auad

[killuridols]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

You have to remember, Guns settled with Adler for $2.5 million. When somebody settles out-of-court it presupposes a weakness of legal case. 

From Slash book...

 

[DieselDaisy]

2 minutes ago, killuridols said:

From Slash book...

 

They settled according to news reports,

[killuridols]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

They settled according to news reports,

The only clear thing is that all these guys are big liars. They are always lying to cover their asses.

[killuridols]

Also, to back up @RONIN's theory from previous pages...

Slash Autobiography 

[Modano09]

8 hours ago, youngswedishvinyl said:

Maybe, just maybe, they just doesn't want Adler around? 

You can't assume that just because a group of guys played together 30 years ago they want to do it again... Hell, there is a bunch of people I've played with for years that I wouldn't want to play with again. Axl, Slash and Duff not wanting to play with Adler doesn't make them assholes, they may just not want to be in a band with him again.

The guy seems like an obnoxious shit disturber. I know he's good at making himself seem sympathetic and playing the victim but he comes off as more manipulative than people think. He can't keep his mouth shut, isn't shy about telling people what he wants and what he thinks they should do, and isn't shy about whining - often times publicly - when he doesn't get it. He's just a personality I can't see them wanting to deal with on a day to day basis at this stage of their lives or under these circumstances. 

[Blackstar]

Slash and Duff have been more or less consistent in what they've been saying in regards to what happened with Adler's firing. They haven't said anything significantly different in their books and later interviews from what they were saying at the time.

Moreover, Steven himself has admitted that he couldn't play Civil War at those sessions:

I remember one day Slash called me to go to the studio and play Civil War, I think it was. I’d been given an opiate blocker by a doctor. I still had opiates in my system and it made me so sick. I must have tried, like, 20 times to play it, but I couldn’t. I was very weak and I didn’t have my timing. Slash and Duff were shouting at me and telling me I was fucked up.

https://www.loudersound.com/features/the-chaotic-crazed-story-of-guns-n-roses-use-your-illusion

So is he a liar too?

Also, from Slash's book on why Steven was fired:

At this point the truth was that if his playing had been fine, I don’t think anyone would have cared what he was doing to himself—at least I wouldn’t have. If you can handle both the music and the drugs, more power to you. We weren’t really concerned for Steven’s health as much as we were pissed off that his addiction was handicapping his performance, and therefore the rest of us. Since the bass and drums are the foundation of any rock band, the situation was very disconcerting all around. [Slash, autobiography, 2007]

Anyway, I've made a thread about all this stuff. I'm not linking it again, anyone who's interested can look for it.

-------------

Even Axl, when he hated Slash, said that Slash could play greatly while on drugs:

I mean, to his credit, Slash could play great guitar on a lot of drugs..you know? But there's a reason that you would be *that* whacked out to get on stage .. and there's a lot of stress to deal with. [Axl, 101 WRIF Radio, 2002]

[PatrickS77]

26 minutes ago, Modano09 said:

The guy seems like an obnoxious shit disturber.

Right. It's better to have shit talker, fake people, asskisser and yesmen. People, who don't dare to speak up and say what they think, just so King Axl doesn't get his little feelings hurt and can do whatever he wants, regardless of other people's wants and needs, without any accountability to anyone.

[SoulMonster]

2 hours ago, Padme said:

OK, still it doesn't make Frank more talented than Adler. 

Uhm, no, why would even Steven being kicked out of GN'R more than 25 years ago have an effect on whether he or Frank is the best drummer today? I don't see the connection.

[SoulMonster]

2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

I'm not disregarding ''any first-person source'' nor am I proclaiming absolute finite veracity upon the issue - obviously I was not privy to events. I have read all the sources and find the image of events they project questionable and hypocritical for the reasons outlined above, and propose an alternative interpretation - Ronin in fact makes an alternative argument better, involving removal of Adler from the partnership, etc. 

You are, you are claiming that they are lying 

Your "alternative interpretation," that Steven was kicked out for merely being an addict, is not only highly stupid but also highly implausible.

2 hours ago, killuridols said:

All the quotes people are using to justify their argument are from the legal battle era against Adler.

No. Many of the quotes are from Duff's book.

[SoulMonster]

2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

You have to remember, Guns settled with Adler for $2.5 million. When somebody settles out-of-court it presupposes a weakness of legal case. 

Yes, but the lawsuit wasn't about whether Steven was kicked out for merely being an addict or not  

[Padme]

5 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Slash and Duff have been more or less consistent in what they've been saying in regards to what happened with Adler's firing. They haven't said anything significantly different in their books and later interviews from what they were saying at the time.

Moreover, Steven himself has admitted that he couldn't play Civil War at those sessions:

I remember one day Slash called me to go to the studio and play Civil War, I think it was. I’d been given an opiate blocker by a doctor. I still had opiates in my system and it made me so sick. I must have tried, like, 20 times to play it, but I couldn’t. I was very weak and I didn’t have my timing. Slash and Duff were shouting at me and telling me I was fucked up.

https://www.loudersound.com/features/the-chaotic-crazed-story-of-guns-n-roses-use-your-illusion

So is he a liar too?

Also, from Slash's book on why Steven was fired:

At this point the truth was that if his playing had been fine, I don’t think anyone would have cared what he was doing to himself—at least I wouldn’t have. If you can handle both the music and the drugs, more power to you. We weren’t really concerned for Steven’s health as much as we were pissed off that his addiction was handicapping his performance, and therefore the rest of us. Since the bass and drums are the foundation of any rock band, the situation was very disconcerting all around. [Slash, autobiography, 2007]

Anyway, I've made a thread about all this stuff. I'm not linking it again, anyone who's interested can look for it.

-------------

Even Axl, when he hated Slash, said that Slash could play greatly while on drugs:

I mean, to his credit, Slash could play great guitar on a lot of drugs..you know? But there's a reason that you would be *that* whacked out to get on stage .. and there's a lot of stress to deal with. [Axl, 101 WRIF Radio, 2002]

Tell all this to SoulMonster. He doesn't believe that Adler's addiction to drugs was deminishing his ability to play. And that's the reason why he was fired. He thinks Adler was fired because he was inmature. Anyway now Adler is sober. Or at least he is not the fucked up guy he was in the 90s. He can play better than Frank. He has a lot more charisma and energy. And he makes himself visible on stage. He is not just a guy sitting in the back of the stage behind the drum kits merely playing notes.

 

[killuridols]

15 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Also, from Slash's book on why Steven was fired:

At this point the truth was that if his playing had been fine, I don’t think anyone would have cared what he was doing to himself—at least I wouldn’t have. If you can handle both the music and the drugs, more power to you. We weren’t really concerned for Steven’s health as much as we were pissed off that his addiction was handicapping his performance, and therefore the rest of us. Since the bass and drums are the foundation of any rock band, the situation was very disconcerting all around. [Slash, autobiography, 2007]

They all keep it in line that they fired him because Adler wasn't able to keep his shit together for the band, for when he was needed to be fine.

But Slash also says that he thinks Axl didn't like Steven at all, because of the way Steven interacted with Axl. So, I guess it's safe to say that if Steven had been the most sober member of the band, Axl would have found a way to get rid of him, because they didn't get along.

This is what happened with Sorum too. What can they say regarding Sorum as a professional drummer? He was perfect, he did his job right and never failed. Yet he was sacked for defying Axl. 

18 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Even Axl, when he hated Slash, said that Slash could play greatly while on drugs:

I mean, to his credit, Slash could play great guitar on a lot of drugs..you know? But there's a reason that you would be *that* whacked out to get on stage .. and there's a lot of stress to deal with. [Axl, 101 WRIF Radio, 2002]

And then in 2009 (or 2010?) when he gave that spiteful interview to Del James, he said Slash was not that great, that he did his PR well and that was the reason of his success 

As we can see, they all are capable of praise or criticism when it is convenient for their business or case.

Bunch of liars.

[SoulMonster]

44 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Also, to back up @RONIN's theory from previous pages...

Slash Autobiography 

Not only didn't Axl like Steven particularly much (Axl didn't even want him in the band at the beginning), also Slash and Duff disliked him. Especially when they had to interact with him daily, and when he was at his worst with drugs. This is very obvious when you read Steven's biography, especially the parts where he was frozen out by Slash and Duff during the Chicago rehearsals. To Slash and Duff's defense: Steven is an insufferable moron.

And I don't think anyone is denying that the fact that he was such an unbearable character expect in minute doses added to their desire to kick him out of the band. I have personally made sure to imply this over and over. Anyone except  @DieselDaisy, of course, with his "it was only due to his addiction!!"-campaign.

[Ratam]

24 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Slash and Duff have been more or less consistent in what they've been saying in regards to what happened with Adler's firing. They haven't said anything significantly different in their books and later interviews from what they were saying at the time.

Moreover, Steven himself has admitted that he couldn't play Civil War at those sessions:

I remember one day Slash called me to go to the studio and play Civil War, I think it was. I’d been given an opiate blocker by a doctor. I still had opiates in my system and it made me so sick. I must have tried, like, 20 times to play it, but I couldn’t. I was very weak and I didn’t have my timing. Slash and Duff were shouting at me and telling me I was fucked up.

https://www.loudersound.com/features/the-chaotic-crazed-story-of-guns-n-roses-use-your-illusion

So is he a liar too?

Also, from Slash's book on why Steven was fired:

At this point the truth was that if his playing had been fine, I don’t think anyone would have cared what he was doing to himself—at least I wouldn’t have. If you can handle both the music and the drugs, more power to you. We weren’t really concerned for Steven’s health as much as we were pissed off that his addiction was handicapping his performance, and therefore the rest of us. Since the bass and drums are the foundation of any rock band, the situation was very disconcerting all around. [Slash, autobiography, 2007]

Anyway, I've made a thread about all this stuff. I'm not linking it again, anyone who's interested can look for it.

-------------

Even Axl, when he hated Slash, said that Slash could play greatly while on drugs:

I mean, to his credit, Slash could play great guitar on a lot of drugs..you know? But there's a reason that you would be *that* whacked out to get on stage .. and there's a lot of stress to deal with. [Axl, 101 WRIF Radio, 2002]

Great you find this quote's @Blackstar

[Blackstar]

3 minutes ago, killuridols said:

But Slash also says that he thinks Axl didn't like Steven at all, because of the way Steven interacted with Axl. So, I guess it's safe to say that if Steven had been the most sober member of the band, Axl would have found a way to get rid of him, because they didn't get along.

No, it's not "safe to say". It's mere speculation - actually it's a long shot.

Anyway, it's your opinion.