STEVEN ADLER: "Izzy is just as heartbroken as I am that the three of them decided to leave us out and bring three strangers in–who are those people?"

[Padme]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

No, the main reason was his inability to play not simply because he was on drugs. 

But his inability to play was because of drugs. It was not his lack of talent.

[Order of Nine]

6 minutes ago, Padme said:

Yes, he could be a liability. We are not sure. You know what. I'd rather see Adler as full time drummer. If he fucks things up, you can tell me "I told you so". At least we all will know for sure that he doesn't deserve another chance.

 

But then you agree the main reason he was fired it was drugs. He was fucked up because of drugs. I'm not so sure other members dislike him

A huge risk and gamble for one of the biggest tours ever. Not a smart move at all 

[Padme]

Just now, Order of Nine said:

A huge risk and gamble for one of the biggest tours ever. Not a smart move at all 

Not now, they have already toured the world. They have made a lot of money. They can afford the risk. They better add something different if they plan to keep touring

[BorderlineCrazy]

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Where's the hypocrisy in not caring about Steven or having the opinion that he is not important for GN'R? Sure you use 'hypocrisy' correctly?

I never said it was hypocritical to think Steven's not important. I said the way he's judge is hypocritical because other guys (or at least one certain guy) have done worse things that him and have been screw ups their entire careers/lives without constantly being called liabilities or morons or menchild...

4 minutes ago, Order of Nine said:

Yeah. You make PERFECT sense. Let's see guns do a show without Axl.

Your brilliant!! 

I clearly said the statement that there can't be GNR without Axl is true, so I have no idea what you're talking about...

[auad]

what more?

drugs? adler? frank? duff's book? slash's book?

all this useless talk is no use.
the boss wants Frank on the drums. end

 

 

[Order of Nine]

3 minutes ago, Padme said:

Not now, they have already toured the world. They have made a lot of money. They can afford the risk. They better add something different if they plan to keep touring

Nope. Nothing more then a few sit ins if that considering all the unessacaery drama he brings. 

[SoulMonster]

13 minutes ago, Padme said:

But his inability to play was because of drugs. It was not his lack of talent.

Of course, has anyone claimed it was because of a lack of talent?

9 minutes ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

I never said it was hypocritical to think Steven's not important. I said the way he's judge is hypocritical because other guys (or at least one certain guy) have done worse things that him and have been screw ups their entire careers/lives without constantly being called liabilities or morons or menchild...

Are you saying anyone here won't admit Axl's been a HUGE liability to the band?

[AncientEvil80]

16 minutes ago, Padme said:

Not now, they have already toured the world. They have made a lot of money. They can afford the risk. They better add something different if they plan to keep touring

I'm afraid a lot of people here don't/won't realize the truth in your statement. Alas...

[SoulMonster]

Here is Slash in 1990 being paraphrased saying exactly what I am saying: "The problem, [Slash] says, is not so much Adler's drug use per se, as his refusal to clean up after it became apparent that he could no longer play very well."

Again, it is not the addiction as such, it is how it affects his playing. They were fine with Steven (or Izzy, or Slash, or Duff) being an addict, they were NOT fine with Steven being an addict that couldn't play properly anymore. This is the reason that is given by Duff and Slash, both in their books and in contemporary interviews. But by reading their books closely, and Steven's book (not necessarily so closely), as well as numerous interviews from that time and later, it is obvious they also disliked aspects of Steven's personality, especially when he was on dope. So my conclusion remains that it is most plausible to assume that Steven was indeed fired from the band because his drug use affected his ability to play to such a degree that Duff and Slash couldn't take it, AND that Axl, Duff and Slash didn't really like him that much (although they were fond of him, and still is-- it's complicated, matters of the heart usually are).

Edited April 17, 2018 by SoulMonster

[BorderlineCrazy]

7 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Are you saying anyone here won't admit Axl's been a HUGE liability to the band?

Admiting it when asked about it is one thing, screaming it out loud all the time like they do with Steven is another.

The same people who uses the words 'risk' and 'liability' everytime the name Steven Adler is mentioned, will then go on to PRAISE Axl for hitting the stage ON TIME!

When it comes to Steven, some people will be plain disrespectful and merciless, then when it comes to Axl they'll be looking for the positives out of every situation.

[Order of Nine]

28 minutes ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

I never said it was hypocritical to think Steven's not important. I said the way he's judge is hypocritical because other guys (or at least one certain guy) have done worse things that him and have been screw ups their entire careers/lives without constantly being called liabilities or morons or menchild...

I clearly said the statement that there can't be GNR without Axl is true, so I have no idea what you're talking about...

Your mad Steven isn't included, he's clearly not needed. 

[SoulMonster]

Just now, BorderlineCrazy said:

Admiting it when asked about it is one thing, screaming it out loud all the time like they do with Steven is another.

I don't see why, when discussing Steven's faults, one has to balance that with mentioning Axl's faults, too

And the reason why there are more discussions about Steven's faults is likely to be mainly driven by the fact that there is so much disagreement here. And out of disagreement comes arguments. You have people who refuse to accept that his playing suffered from his addiction. While everybody, I am sure, agrees that Axl was late for so many shows, even failed to show up at times, was widely unpredictable and a general pain in the ass to his band members. It is sort of noncontroversial, right? So no basis for endless discussions.

But I do agree that there is probably more fans of Axl here than there are fans of Steven, and thus it is also likely to assume that the general sentiment will be more biased in Axl's favor than in Steven's. But of course, that doesn't mean people don't agree Axl had his many faults, just that they will be less motivated to repeat them again and again in thread all over. 

[Modano09]

1 hour ago, PatrickS77 said:

Right. It's better to have shit talker, fake people, asskisser and yesmen. People, who don't dare to speak up and say what they think, just so King Axl doesn't get his little feelings hurt and can do whatever he wants, regardless of other people's wants and needs, without any accountability to anyone.

It is, because they're in their 50's with families and are trying to be professionals and whoever is going to help make that run smoothly is better than anyone who isn't - and everything about Adler suggests he'd rock the boat somehow. It's not some righteous "accountability", it's an obnoxious loudmouth whining when he doesn't get what he wants.

[Modano09]

1 hour ago, Padme said:

Yes, you claimed Steven was fired because he was inmmature and annoying. Besides his innability to play. Duff and Slash agreed he couldn't played anymore. Adler admitted he couldn't play Civil War. But it wasn't because of lack of talent. The guy was really fucked up.

Well now that's not the case anymore. So why Adler isn't the GN'R drummer? Axl, Slash and Duff don't want him in the band. Still the question is why

 

Because he's obnoxious, childish, won't keep his mouth shut, whiny, runs to the radio to get people to feel sorry for him whenever he doesn't get his way, and, considering his sobriety has been off and on and off and on and off and on and over and over and over for 30 years, he could go off the rails any time during the 2 year tour? 

[ludurigan]

43 minutes ago, Srushti7 said:

I don't think heartbroken and Izzy fuck with each other at all.

Jokes apart I don't think Izzy gives a fuck about the reunion. If he gets paid well he'll do it else not. 

Slash? I don't know the exact reason why's he doing it. Maybe coz of the divorce sucking him out of half his money (his ex wife is a joke 😂) or maybe because he genuinely wanted to do it because he did seem open to the idea of a reunion. 

No special thoughts on Duff

Axl don't know why's he doing it 

Steven seems the only one who is heartbroken over it. 

PS for whatever reasons they're doing it, the outcome is fucking awesome. 

 

yes, your opinion on izzy fits perfetctly with his entire attitude over the years! remember when he asked to join GNR in 1991 right before the release of UYI because he noticed GNR was about to make a lot of money? wow, what a money-driven fella!

 

[killuridols]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

Not only didn't Axl like Steven particularly much (Axl didn't even want him in the band at the beginning), also Slash and Duff disliked him. Especially when they had to interact with him daily, and when he was at his worst with drugs.

Slash and Duff started to dislike Steven because they had to babysit him and watched him out for his drug abuse. Slash, in his books, complains that no one else in Steven's circle of friends and family took care of him or tried to help him with the drugs.

But this feeling has nothing to do with genuinely disliking someone. They just didn't want to deal with him as if he was their child because they were guys with their own egos, own drug problems and it is the same way they didn't help Axl with his mental disease either.

Axl couldn't rely on them for his problems. Once in a while he would talk or open up to Slash but he spent days or weeks secluded, feeling alone. Same thing happened after the UYI tour was over. Axl was completely alone when he came back home.

Does that mean Slash and Duff didn't like him? No, but they didn't want to take care of him either.

This is a band of egotistical fucks, not a band of brothers. But between Axl and Steven, I guess there's a genuine dislike of each other's person. More on the side of Axl towards Steven.

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

I was speaking rhetorically, i.e., Guns claim to have sacked him for drugs, and that reason is therefore completely hypocritical as they were also drug addicts. You then decided you wanted a tedious argument over semantics of the (Guns N' Roses) claim.

My theory is as stated earlier, 

Bringing in some of Ronin's arguments about power and money. 

I posted a Slash book excerpt above where he admits it was very hypocritical from them to sack Steven for drug abuse. He admits it. But he justifies it by saying it is because his drug abuse was affecting the band.

The fact that Slash uses an excuse to justify the sacking doesn't mean this is the real reason for the sacking. 

Personally, I believe it is a combination of things, being the drug abuse the perfect excuse to fire Adler. Had it not been that, it would have been something else. And I mention what happened to Sorum, a drummer who was doing his job in the right way, but was sacked because Axl had disagreements with him.

 

45 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Because he is an unreliable manchild who they dislike and who has a history of filing lawsuits at them and lying about them in the press? Just my 5 cents...

Are you talking about Axl? 

The descriptions fits his history perfectly!

35 minutes ago, Order of Nine said:

Yeah. You make PERFECT sense. Let's see guns do a show without Axl.

Your brilliant!! 

We saw several Guns shows without Slash.... I admit it wasn't a brilliant idea.

[PatrickS77]

47 minutes ago, Order of Nine said:

A huge risk and gamble for one of the biggest tours ever. Not a smart move at all 

Again. Not if they have Ferrer there as well, which seems to have been the plan. So, really, that's irrelevant.

[BorderlineCrazy]

Just now, Order of Nine said:

Your mad Steven isn't included, he's clearly not needed. 

I'm not mad, in fact I'm just waiting for the tour to end. Looking forward to SMKC coming back with new music, that's all I care about.

And I agree he's not needed for a business point of view, neither is Duff. This band relies on casuals who only care about Slash and Axl so everyone else is irrelevant when it comes to selling tickets/making money, which is the only thing they care about.

From a musical point of view, Steven is kinda needed because their current drummer is horrible but they could have solved that without Steven too. Slash has a great drummer in his band who knows how to play GNR songs but keeping Axl happy was more important than playing the songs properly.

6 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I don't see why, when discussing Steven's faults, one has to balance that with mentioning Axl's faults, too

And the reason why there are more discussions about Steven's faults is likely to be mainly driven by the fact that there is so much disagreement here. And out of disagreement comes arguments. You have people who refuse to accept that his playing suffered from his addiction. While everybody, I am sure, agrees that Axl was late for so many shows, even failed to show up at times, was widely unpredictable and a general pain in the ass to his band members. It is sort of noncontroversial, right? So no basis for endless discussions.

But I do agree that there is probably more fans of Axl here than there are fans of Steven, and thus it is also likely to assume that the general sentiment will be more biased in Axl's favor than in Steven's. But of course, that doesn't mean people don't agree Axl had his many faults, just that they will be less motivated to repeat them again and again in thread all over. 

Oh, I didn't mean Axl's faults should be discussed when Steven's are being discussed, just that whenever there's an argument about Axl or the tour or whatever, people won't talk about Axl in those terms and they won't be bringing every mistake from his past all the time as they do with Steven.

Also, they will acknolewdge Axl for being on time now and not having any incidents on this tour while they show zero appreciation for Steven's efforts to get clean and beat his disease. For many fans, Axl can do no wrong and Steven can do no right, that's what's annoying.

[Modano09]

57 minutes ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

How can anyone take Axl seriously all these years later and not wonder how big of a liability he could be? He has not mature at all since he was in school in Indiana and the fact that he has to carry a brazilian family to take care of him everywhere he goes is embarrasing at best.

Also, every single GNR show that went wrong (started late, ended early causing a riot, got canceled) was Axl's fault, not Steven's, Slash's, Buckethead's or anyone else's. The only exception is Donington 88.

Using your beyond stupid logic, go watch St. Louis 1991 and ask yourself if you would want a world tour with that guy.

The only decent answer to all this is "there's no GNR without Axl" and that's true but that proves the hypocrisy of certain fans who judge Steven way harder just because they don't care about him and don't think he's important.

Axl was touring as GNR for a decade with moderate success. Just announcing Slash was returning put them in stadiums on a 2 plus year world tour that got the world's attention. Nobody was like "That's cool but I'll wait until Seven Adler comes back". Hell, most people probably think him and Matt are the same guy! The fact is Adler's an obnoxious fool and an unreliable liability and it's unrealistic to think the band are supposed to over look that because maybe 5% of the fan base cares about him.

[Order of Nine]

22 minutes ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

Admiting it when asked about it is one thing, screaming it out loud all the time like they do with Steven is another.

The same people who uses the words 'risk' and 'liability' everytime the name Steven Adler is mentioned, will then go on to PRAISE Axl for hitting the stage ON TIME!

When it comes to Steven, some people will be plain disrespectful and merciless, then when it comes to Axl they'll be looking for the positives out of every situation.

I could care less what time Axl hits the stage. 

But I do find it hilarious when people complain how punctual they've been on this tour. 

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

This thread...at first I was 

Now I've lost track of what you're all arguing about in the first place. 

Remember shortly after the tour ended we predicted the radio silence would drive us all crazy before June?  Ya reckon we've reached peak insanity yet, or is the worst yet to come? 

[PatrickS77]

16 minutes ago, Modano09 said:

It is, because they're in their 50's with families and are trying to be professionals and whoever is going to help make that run smoothly is better than anyone who isn't - and everything about Adler suggests he'd rock the boat somehow. It's not some righteous "accountability", it's an obnoxious loudmouth whining when he doesn't get what he wants.

Wow. Your bias really is astonishing.

[Order of Nine]

And complainging about Frank's imperfections still won't hide the fact that Steven was consistently inconsistent, you just choose him because he was an original member. But ignore the fact his drumming was always off tempo even within the same song.

[auad]

4 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

This thread...at first I was 

Now I've lost track of what you're all arguing about in the first place. 

Remember shortly after the tour ended we predicted the radio silence would drive us all crazy before June?  Ya reckon we've reached peak insanity yet, or is the worst yet to come? 

Yes, that's it. one of the worst topics among the worst, for sure.

[Modano09]

10 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

Wow. Your bias really is astonishing.

So what is it our night in shining armor Steven Adler is going to hold them accountable for?