Why do you think the Illusion albums always get sidelined?

[AxlRoseCDII]

As we approach an inevitable re-release of Appetite, I do wonder why Guns n' Roses never really put these albums in the spotlight. The 25th anniversary of them passed by with barely any acknowledgement. Durihg tne NITL tour they played what, 3 songs each night from each (counting KOHD/LALD)? It's almost like Guns lives purely off the success of Appetite, playing 8-9 songs a night from it while ignoring they had two other massive albums that led to a massive tour. Why do you guys think this is?

[IncitingChaos]

They played 

LALD

KOHD

COMA

ESTRANGED

CIVIL WAR

YESTERDAYS

Dont Cry 

November Rain

YCBM 

so on tour it was even. I don’t think they celebrate them as much Bc the impact of AFD was that much greater, plus I think it was a frustrating time for the entire band.

id like to see a UYI release with all the fillers taken out and have that remastered with the footage of the documentary from the tour. It would be pretty cool to do something like that. I think there’s a ton of bonus footage from that time which is the exciting part

[soon]

Good question. I don't know. Maybe because the albums are basically a narration of one mans descent into madness to a musical accompaniment provided by cocaine itself?  Neither of which any of them want to sit with too much these days?

 

 

Edited May 2, 2018 by soon

[Nice Boy]

I saw a vid on youtube once from when UYI was released, the presenter went out and gave a load of random people in the street a copy of the albums and said Ok listen to them and then we'll ask you for your impressions in a few days. There was one middle aged oriental looking guy in a suit who came back and said 'yeah it's kind of depressing music' or words to that effect. 

First I thought that's a strange response, but then I thought actually if you look at the albums objectively they are kind of depressing, a lot of the content is basically one person's description of how fucked up his life and relationship is. And CD is even more so. Not to say the music and lyrics aren't good of course.

p.s. if anyone knows the vid I'm on about post it up please.. 

[DieselDaisy]

Appetite's coherent and cohesive whilst Illusion is a bit of a mess. Further, despite Illusion being commercially successful, grunge rather won the argument and made the whole thing look a bit ridiculous; there is an ''uncoolness'' associated with that album (think Zeppelin and Floyd on the eve of punk). It is consequentially convenient to concentrate on the punk ethos of Appetite, and ignore the excesses of its sequel.

There is almost a bit of retroactive rewriting going on. 

[Blackstar]

I think if they do with the Illusions something similar to what they're doing now with the AFD box set, there's a chance of a hype and new appreciation for those albums, although they will never surpass Appetite in this regard.

[rocknroll41]

While I want a UYI box set, I can also see why the band probably wants to "let go" of that era.

as others here have said, it represents a time in the band's history that ultimately did not go over well. Plus, the production style is a bit dated and hasn't aged as well as the production on Appetite. 

There is also way too much filler that may have been exciting at the time but not so much so these days. I like the idea though of the band sitting down and picking their absolute favorite songs to do as just one 80-minute disc, and package that with bonus stuff like the raw mixes, previously unheard demos, previously unseen live pro-shot footage, and the documentary.

[Kwick1]

The huge UYI tour may have been to promote the UYI albums but GnR played close to 50% of non UYI.  I'm apparently that illusive fan that was 20 when AFD was released and had the good fortune to see the band during those years. What I know from the time, it's true grunge was growing in popularity with Nirvana and Pearl Jam but GnR was still the largest and most popular band in the world. I also think that this period was the most turbulent for GnR. By June 1991, Izzy was on his way out it was obvious. Axl's explosive personality was coming out more often and it was rumored that none of the members even talked to each other. As disfunctional as GnR was they still put on a great show and I never dreamed then that UYI would be the last tour for many years. Here's the set list from the Dallas show I was at. It was short because Axl was 2 hrs late and Dallas had an 11pm curfew. 

Ultimately, I think UYI was a bad time for GnR despite the huge tour  

[lame ass security]

10 minutes ago, Kwick1 said:

The huge UYI tour may have been to promote the UYI albums but GnR played close to 50% of non UYI.  I'm apparently that illusive fan that was 20 when AFD was released and had the good fortune to see the band during those years. What I know from the time, it's true grunge was growing in popularity with Nirvana and Pearl Jam but GnR was still the largest and most popular band in the world. I also think that this period was the most turbulent for GnR. By June 1991, Izzy was on his way out it was obvious. Axl's explosive personality was coming out more often and it was rumored that none of the members even talked to each other. As disfunctional as GnR was they still put on a great show and I never dreamed then that UYI would be the last tour for many years. Here's the set list from the Dallas show I was at. It was short because Axl was 2 hrs late and Dallas had an 11pm curfew. 

Ultimately, I think UYI was a bad time for GnR despite the huge tour  

This would've been the first show following the riot in St Louis

[lame ass security]

1 hour ago, Nice Boy said:

I saw a vid on youtube once from when UYI was released, the presenter went out and gave a load of random people in the street a copy of the albums and said Ok listen to them and then we'll ask you for your impressions in a few days. There was one middle aged oriental looking guy in a suit who came back and said 'yeah it's kind of depressing music' or words to that effect. 

First I thought that's a strange response, but then I thought actually if you look at the albums objectively they are kind of depressing, a lot of the content is basically one person's description of how fucked up his life and relationship is. And CD is even more so. Not to say the music and lyrics aren't good of course.

p.s. if anyone knows the vid I'm on about post it up please.. 

Was the oriental guy Jackie Chan by chance? Lol

[janrichmond]

I like the UYI I more than II and i still have it on my playlist. My first times seeing them live were the illusions tours, so there is the nostalgia effect too. I would buy an illusions boxset.

[Kwick1]

31 minutes ago, lame ass security said:

This would've been the first show following the riot in St Louis

Yes. It was originally canceled and then back on. They played two nights in Dallas. I went to the first night. 

[dalsh327]

They probably ran through a lot of UYI in rehearsals but it's also about keeping the audience's interest, it's also trying to balace AFD, UYI & ChiDem cuts out. I don't know why they don't occasionally swap Coma for Locomotive though. I think they had done Perfect Crime in soundcheck. 

Even when GNR did the Vegas residencies, they didn't really change many songs in the setlist. Billy Joel took a few years of playing MSG to really shake his setlist up, and we know Billy's one of Axl's influences (and I guess a good friend now). No new album since 1993, and isn't planning on putting another one out. 

I don't know if Axl's happy with the Illusions over the years, or if it's something he wants to have remixed. 

It would be cool to hear the whole thing as a box set though, because you also have TSI? songs that were part of the sessions and anything else that didn't make the cut.

There's also the unreleased tour documentary. 

 

[Blackstar]

14 minutes ago, dalsh327 said:

I don't know if Axl's happy with the Illusions over the years, or if it's something he wants to have remixed.

Based on what he has said over the years, he wasn't happy at least between 1999-2009. I don't think that has changed.

In 2009 he talked mostly about the drumming (he even implied, although he said that the drumming on AFD is the most dated thing on that album, that in retrospect he would have preferred Steven over Matt for the Illusions) but he added "it was all of us".

[Fourteenbeers]

Does anyone else feel that the part of  Illusions that hasn't aged particularly well,  is not the music itself, but the videos?  Apart from YCBM, they seem kind of tacky and/or bloated. Or maybe it's just me, because I'm less is more - type?

[Blackstar]

5 minutes ago, Fourteenbeers said:

Does anyone else feel that the part of  Illusions that hasn't aged particularly well,  is not the music itself, but the videos?  Apart from YCBM, they seem kind of tacky and/or bloated. Or maybe it's just me, because I'm less is more - type?

I guess you're talking about the trilogy videos, which are linked with the Illusions in the collective conscious. The other videos, however (LALD, Yesterdays, The Garden, Garden Of Eden) were not like that.

About the trilogy, I think it depends on the POV. I was never a fan of those videos, but judging from the views they have on youtube, it seems they're seen as classics. Maybe a portion of rock fans finds them uncool, but they've been very popular to massive audiences.

[Tonto]

4 hours ago, AxlRoseCDII said:

As we approach an inevitable re-release of Appetite, I do wonder why Guns n' Roses never really put these albums in the spotlight. The 25th anniversary of them passed by with barely any acknowledgement. Durihg tne NITL tour they played what, 3 songs each night from each (counting KOHD/LALD)? It's almost like Guns lives purely off the success of Appetite, playing 8-9 songs a night from it while ignoring they had two other massive albums that led to a massive tour. Why do you guys think this is?

3

You can't count, they play more than that each night. Often 5 or 6, hardly a great difference.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Tonto

[Fourteenbeers]

1 minute ago, Blackstar said:

I guess you're talking about the trilogy videos, which are linked with the Illusions in the collective conscious. The other videos, however (LALD, Yesterdays, The Garden, Garden Of Eden) were not like that.

About the trilogy, I think it depends on the POV. I was never a fan of those videos, but judging from the views they have on youtube, it seems they're seen as classics. Maybe a portion of rock fans finds them uncool, but they've been very popular to massive audiences.

Yes, I was mainly referring to the trilogy videos.  The others you mentioned; The Garden and Yesterdays work well. Eden irritates me a bit (although it could be the song too)  LALD - I think  it's mostly Sorum's poodle style perm that sticks out too much on that one 

[shotsfired cro]

just like Nirvana and Nevermind vs In Utero.

In Utero too was a better album than Nevermind

[RONIN]

1 hour ago, Tonto said:

You can't count, they play more than that each night. Often 5 or 6, hardly a great difference.

The point Tonto is that the setlist should be comprised entirely of Illusion songs. 

3 hours ago, dalsh327 said:

I don't know if Axl's happy with the Illusions over the years, or if it's something he wants to have remixed. 

He whines a lot about needing more time to complete the albums and the drumming. All it tells me is that he let the critics get to him over the years and it has soured his opinion of the albums. That and bad memories of that time have made Illusions the red-headed stepchild of GnR. These albums were roasted over the years and collectively seen as GnR's downfall. A lot of that has to do with the Grunge movement and what GnR represented/stood for during that time. It has very little to do with music imho. Critics have largely torpedoed the reputation and legacy of Illusions.

As far as him remixing UYI - yeah, no thanks. In classic Axl style, he'd probably add more crap to it like harp players and choir singers instead of subtracting. The last thing Illusions needs is more layers. It's a big longshot, but if they want to really give those albums the attention they deserve, here's my wishlist:

- Mix the album properly and use the "naked" mixes that Slash always talks about.

- Sit in a circle together and reconfigure the songs a la Appetite/Lies. Make the songs feel more organic instead of "Slash song w/ Axl and Izzy added in". If that means rearranging some songs or losing parts of the songs, that's fine.

Replace Sorum with Adler. I know that it's not "young" Adler we would get - but even current Adler > Sorum.

Take out some of the bullshit vocal overdubs and early 90's cheese like the phone call in KOHD or the cool hand luke quote that opens Civil War - make it more punk like what Slash and Izzy envisioned for the album.

Get Izzy to re-record his stuff again. Have Slash and Izzy duel on those albums to recreate the AFD magic. 

Cull the tracklist of stuff like shotgun blues, so fine, get in the ring, my world, Don't Cry alt. Drop the cover songs.

I think that would give those albums a new life and a second chance with fans. Also - if they were to bundle an Illusion boxset with one of the warm up shows from '91? Instant buy. Those '91 warmup shows are holy grail material. The tour documentary would just be icing on the cake. 

[Blackstar]

10 minutes ago, RONIN said:

As far as him remixing UYI - yeah, no thanks. In classic Axl style, he'd probably add more crap to it like harp players and choir singers instead of subtracting. The last thing Illusions needs is more layers. It's a big longshot, but if they want to really give those albums the attention they deserve, here's my wishlist:

- Mix the album properly and use the "naked" mixes that Slash always talks about.

- Sit in a circle together and reconfigure the songs a la Appetite/Lies. Make the songs feel more organic instead of "Slash song w/ Axl and Izzy added in". If that means rearranging some songs or losing parts of the songs, that's fine.

Replace Sorum with Adler. I know that it's not "young" Adler we would get - but even current Adler > Sorum.

Take out some of the bullshit vocal overdubs and early 90's cheese like the phone call in KOHD or the cool hand luke quote that opens Civil War - make it more punk like what Slash and Izzy envisioned for the album.

Get Izzy to re-record his stuff again. Have Slash and Izzy duel on those albums to recreate the AFD magic. 

Cull the tracklist of stuff like shotgun blues, so fine, get in the ring, my world, Don't Cry alt. Drop the cover songs.

I think that would give those albums a new life and a second chance with fans. Also - if they were to bundle an Illusion boxset with one of the warm up shows from '91? Instant buy. Those '91 warmup shows are holy grail material. The tour documentary would just be icing on the cake. 

That's a long long longshot! 

I don't agree about the Civil War quote. It's classic.

The '91 warmup shows... The Ritz '91 is one of my favourites, but it was slammed in reviews.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Blackstar

[RONIN]

Does anyone think Axl overdid his vocals for UYI? His singing on Appetite is so uniform and perfect imho - just the right amount of rasp and it feels more "tasteful" than some of the singing on Illusions. 

I feel like on UYI he's trying to showcase how versatile he is as a singer and while a lot of it hits the mark - there's stuff that goes way too far on the rasp. The rasp/nasal voice on songs like Estranged, YCBM, Yesterdays, The Garden, etc could crack mirrors. I love those vocals but I imagine it's like hearing a cat being thrown in a blender for a lot of casual fans. You don't hear this vocal style on Chi Dem. It's distinctly Illusion era. 

Did his voice change between 89' - '91 or was the "nasal voice" a deliberate choice? The '91 shows in particular really showcase this to the extreme.  

[shotsfired cro]

UYI's are perfect as they are, granted minus My World.

Eventually, some critic some day said 'they are overproduced' and then even the none GNR fans began repeating that cliche.

They remain the most listened albums of my life.  Not sure, but think I listened each over a thousand times.

[rocknroll41]

8 hours ago, Kwick1 said:

The huge UYI tour may have been to promote the UYI albums but GnR played close to 50% of non UYI.  I'm apparently that illusive fan that was 20 when AFD was released and had the good fortune to see the band during those years. What I know from the time, it's true grunge was growing in popularity with Nirvana and Pearl Jam but GnR was still the largest and most popular band in the world. I also think that this period was the most turbulent for GnR. By June 1991, Izzy was on his way out it was obvious. Axl's explosive personality was coming out more often and it was rumored that none of the members even talked to each other. As disfunctional as GnR was they still put on a great show and I never dreamed then that UYI would be the last tour for many years. Here's the set list from the Dallas show I was at. It was short because Axl was 2 hrs late and Dallas had an 11pm curfew. 

Ultimately, I think UYI was a bad time for GnR despite the huge tour  

Id be so pissed if I waited 2 hours and only got 15 songs.

[Tonto]

15 hours ago, RONIN said:

The point Tonto is that the setlist should be comprised entirely of Illusion songs. 

 

 

Why in the world of fuck should the setlist be comprised of entirely Illusion songs?