One In A Million being erased from history

[killuridols]

18 minutes ago, Gambit83 said:

Listen to Ernie's story. Very sad you have this view.

What is sad about my view? That's an odd thing to say.

I replied to what was reproduced in Alternative Nation. The link that you shared in your post.

10 minutes ago, tsinindy said:

This is often the problem we have in America, people confuse someone being a liberal with being a socialist.  In other words they think if someone is liberal (As Axl is nowadays) then they are also a socialist.  It's ignorance really, but it is what it is.  

Maybe it's not ignorance. In other parts of the world, liberalism means something different than what it means in the United States (North America). 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2018 by killuridols

[Gambit83]

Just now, killuridols said:

What is sad about my view? That's an odd thing to say.

I replied to what was reproduced in Alternative Nation. The link that you shared in your post.

That Ernie is privileged and equal to a white powerful person.  

[BadRain]

On 5/4/2018 at 9:40 AM, Len Cnut said:

There's no fuckin' PC brigade removing shit from albums, if it ain't there its cuz Axl will remove it cuz its certainly on the copies of Lies in the stores right now.  Personally i think its a fantastic song, yeah its pretty racist but thats OK too, if you're feeling some kinda way i think you should be fre to express it.  What I do think was kinda lame was Axl not standing by it, both back in the day and now, he tried to justify it in the lamest of ways 'well, rappers do it!' or 'john lennon has a song called Woman is the N!gger of the World' or 'I got no problem with immigrants and f@ggots...BUT..', fuck that man, if you're gonna do a song like that then say 'yeah, that was it, that was how i felt, thats the kinda person I was, thats where I was in life'.  I find it kinda funny that the fact that he might've been a racist is SUCH a big deal, yet any number of other like...immoral unethical things they did are like, celebrated   You could be a junkie, you could slap bitches left right and centre, you could be beating the fuckin' shit out of people on the street...just don't say n!gger or f@ggot, please!   Cuz, y'know, we gotta have standards here!

If you're gonna celebrate people like GnR or Iggy Pop or Johnny Thunders (not that GnR are in the latter twos league) for basically being street scum well expect some street scum behaviour in them, expect Lower East Side in the late 70s type morals.  Don't go on about 'oh Appetite, Appetite!  Its so sleazy and real and blah blah blah' and then wonder why its a certain kind of person who engages in a certain kind of behaviour that makes that kinda music.

Yep, "Appetite" didn't reach the heights of badassery it did because the members of GNR were well-behaved, morally upstanding role models.

[Kwick1]

15 minutes ago, killuridols said:

He always wanted to become a rich and powerful guy, probably as a revenge to his bullies

Axl has a drive to be successful  with his drive to be successful came riches and power. But those are only the result of his drive for success  

 

[killuridols]

3 minutes ago, Gambit83 said:

That Ernie is privileged and equal to a white powerful person.  

Is he a poor guy selling gold chains in the street? He might not be a millionaire but he is above other people from his own race and even white ones.

 

[estrangedtwat]

You only see the world in classes and hierarchies.  You don't just see people as people.   You're the true racist in this thread.

[Gambit83]

1 minute ago, killuridols said:

Is he a poor guy selling gold chains in the street? He might not be a millionaire but he is above other people from his own race and even white ones.

 

If you have the time listen to his upbringing on my podcast. Ernie has fought hard for what he's earned. Amazing person.

[soon]

12 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Maybe it's not ignorance. In other parts of the world, liberalism means something different than what it means in the United States (North America). 

 

 

Not that it matters but I wouldn't say its a North American wide thing. Im in Canada and am baffled by the US usage of the term 'liberal.' 

Its used as a catch all in US.  And it makes things incredibly confusing in cases like this case wherein hyper capitalist greed is shaped as Conservative; because Liberal is said to be socialist. Then how can we discuss that the current organization of hyper capitalism is in fact Neo-Liberalism? Some US folks could not understand that because of the language trap.

Also the binary that two catch all terms creates causes endless confusion.  And likely they dont know how some of their fellow US citizens are communists because the State outlawed Communism.  So the Communists in the US are hush hush and others don't get exposed to actual Communists and theory.

 

 

[killuridols]

31 minutes ago, Gambit83 said:

If you have the time listen to his upbringing on my podcast. Ernie has fought hard for what he's earned. Amazing person.

Im not taking anything away from his talent and his efforts to achieve what he got. And nowhere did I say he is a bad person. If he's not bothered by what Axl said, that's his thing. He justified by saying he knows Axl. Cool. A vast majority of people don't have the chance of knowing Axl.... so he will be inevitably judged through his art only.

Who knows how he might have felt if he had listened to OIAM when he was a kid, when he was not a colleague of Axl.... People change their minds as they grow up (for better or for worse).

37 minutes ago, Kwick1 said:

Axl has a drive to be successful  with his drive to be successful came riches and power. But those are only the result of his drive for success  

I only repeat what he said in 1989....

RS: A few years ago you were a poor kid in a struggling rock band, and today you're in one of the most popular groups in the world. How have you adjusted to your success?

Trying to handle success is a pain in the ass. It's really strange and takes some getting used to. I've never had my place to live before, never had to deal with the amount of money we've made and not get ripped off, never understood doing your taxes and all these things. I was hating it a few months ago, trying to get organized and trying to get a place to live and to get a grip on everything. But now things are coming together. I've wanted to be here my whole life.

RS: Does the business end of rock & roll ever interfere with your creative attitude?

(...) I like being successful. I was always starving. On the other side. When it came to people with money, it was always "The rich? Fuck them!" But I left one group and joined another. I escaped from one group where I was looked down on for being a poor kid that doesn't know shit, and now I'm, like, a rich, successful asshole. I don't like that. I'm still just me and, with a lot of people's help, the group was able to become a huge financial success. None of us were the popular kids in school – we were all outcasts who got together and pooled our talents.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/the-rolling-stone-interview-axl-rose-19890810

There's also a notebook where he wrote his goals in life, they were all related to financial and artistic success and freedom.

 

Edited May 5, 2018 by killuridols

[Tucknroll]

He's lived in California too long. Liberalism is a mental illness

[moreblack]

It's just the angry confused words of an angry confused kid who didn't have his shit together. He probably doesn't feel that way anymore.

 

Bitchin' solo though.

[killuridols]

6 minutes ago, soon said:

Not that it matters but I wouldn't say its a North American wide thing. Im in Canada and am baffled by the US usage of the term 'liberal.' 

Its used as a catch all in US.  And it makes things incredibly confusing in cases like this case wherein hyper capitalist greed is shaped as Conservative; because Liberal is said to be socialist. Then how can we discuss that the current organization of hyper capitalism is in fact Neo-Liberalism? Some US folks could not understand that because of the language trap.

Also the binary that two catch all terms creates causes endless confusion.  And likely they dont know how some of their fellow US citizens are communists because the State outlawed Communism.  So the Communists in the US are hush hush and others don't get exposed to actual Communists and theory.

Aright. Thanks for clearing it up

Politic terms have been used, abused and misused by politicians from all over the world to justify their intentions, their actions and their rules.

In Latinamerica, liberalism and neoliberalism is associated to the right and the conservative. To groups who only want to favor big corporations and the rich, making the poor even poorer.

Lol, yeah, I have friends living in the USA and people born in there who are pretty confused when debating politics in social media. I always have to be telling people that they use the terms in a different way, it's a pain in the ass 

[soon]

4 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Aright. Thanks for clearing it up

Politic terms have been used, abused and misused by politicians from all over the world to justify their intentions, their actions and their rules.

In Latinamerica, liberalism and neoliberalism is associated to the right and the conservative. To groups who only want to favor big corporations and the rich, making the poor even poorer.

Lol, yeah, I have friends living in the USA and people born in there who are pretty confused when debating politics in social media. I always have to be telling people that they use the terms in a different way, it's a pain in the ass 

It really is a pain in the ass!!!!

[Nice Boy]

Musically great... the lyrics are just fuckin embarassing.

At the time it almost turned me off the band completely, until I thought hmm there must be more to the story. Unfortunately the damage was already done, and still to this day I get people calling me up on being a GnR fan because of this, it's actually tiresome having to constantly try to explain the context.

Was Axl a racist, homophobic bigot?

When he hit L.A., yes he carried those prejudices. 

But he wised up very quickly.

I think his biggest mistake was to be so naive in releasing that song and not forseeing the effect it would have, even to this day.

In 2018 I'm still having to defend him when people bring it up. 

What can I say to prove he was not actually an ideological racist / homophobe ?

 

- There was mutual respect between him and some of the most militant black rap groups, Public Enemy, NWA etc

- He has since produced music referencing Martin Luther King etc

- He is evidently outspoken about Trump's anti-immigration position

- The Freddie Mercury tribute was a beautiful testament to him healing his past homophobia

- His own personal bodyguard was a hench black dude named Earl (lol)

..and so on.

 

One awful and little known repercussion is that here in the UK, the song was covered and released by an actual neo-Nazi band called Skrewdriver. (It sucks, but go listen if you want.) 

GnR should have fuckin sued that band for that. 

Being a GnR fan is tough, man... but "I guess I'll always be.."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[killuridols]

14 minutes ago, Nice Boy said:

I think his biggest mistake was to be so naive in releasing that song and not forseeing the effect it would have, even to this day.

I would call it egocentrism instead of naive, as by the time the song was released he was no longer an ignorant poor kid who just got off the boat. That kind of thing you do when you live in a shell, when you don't walk the streets anymore and you are not in contact with reality.

But what's even more controversial is that no one else in the band, the management and the record label stood up against the inclusion of the song. Did no one else listen to it before releasing it? Not credible. He had support to do it and the context was ideal too. Nowadays he wouldn't be able to do that (or maybe he could but the backlash would be outrageous)

14 minutes ago, Nice Boy said:

His own personal bodyguard was a hench black dude named Earl (lol)

It was a black person under his control, though. He paid his salary, Earl responded to him like an employee. 

I'd believe it if his best friend was a black dude. Someone not on his payroll.

Edited May 5, 2018 by killuridols

[Nice Boy]

26 minutes ago, killuridols said:

I would call it egocentrism instead of naive, as by the time the song was released he was no longer an ignorant poor kid who just got off the boat. That kind of thing you do when you live in a shell, when you don't walk the streets anymore and you are not in contact with reality.

But what's even more controversial is that no one else in the band, the management and the record label stood up against the inclusion of the song. Did no one else listen to it before releasing it? Not credible. He had support to do it and the context was ideal too. Nowadays he wouldn't be able to do that (or maybe he could but the backlash would be outrageous)

It was a black person under his control, though. He paid his salary, Earl responded to him like an employee. 

I'd believe it if his best friend was a black dude. Someone not on his payroll.

 

Egocentric maybe, I think it was probably a lot to do with his absolute stubborn insistence that he should not be censored, so if / when anyone said "hey maybe it's not a good idea to say that" it would just make him want to say it even more..

The record company probably realised that too. There's also the question of whether they didn't challenge it because they hoped the controversy would sell records. That's possible. 

re Earl being under his control / on his payroll, I take your point, though the relationship between him and Axl would have been that Earl had a degree of control over Axl.. also as that guy from Bodycount said, it surely counts for something that Axl entrusted his whole safety and possibly his life to Earl, a black guy.

I think there's an Earl interview about somewhere, might have another look..

[killuridols]

16 minutes ago, Nice Boy said:

Egocentric maybe, I think it was probably a lot to do with his absolute stubborn insistence that he should not be censored, so if / when anyone said "hey maybe it's not a good idea to say that" it would just make him want to say it even more..

The record company probably realised that too. There's also the question of whether they didn't challenge it because they hoped the controversy would sell records. That's possible. 

Yes, thats more or less what Izzy said. Axl was out of control and record label wasn't willing to lose him.

It all added up to them being a commercial success. Had they been a flop, that song would have never been included.

21 minutes ago, Nice Boy said:

Earl being under his control / on his payroll, I take your point, though the relationship between him and Axl would have been that Earl had a degree of control over Axl.. also as that guy from Bodycount said, it surely counts for something that Axl entrusted his whole safety and possibly his life to Earl, a black guy.

I think there's an Earl interview about somewhere, might have another look..

I believe Earl was paid so well that any desire to make social justice with his own hands was pretty much dissipated by the possibility of working for a rich guy and receiving the benefits of it (exclusive planes, trips abroad, great hotels, fantastic food, etc)

Not all black people feel sorry for their peers or are socially aware, human rights activists.

I read one Earl interview once too, not sure where or why was he being interviewed, lol.

I remember he said he was like Axl's babysitter, had to wake him up, take him to the gym, etc.

[Cuban Skies 87]

I love the guitar work. If the band don't want to be associated with it anymore then I could understand why. I think Axl included the MLK speech on Madagascar as part to show his views aren't as people would assume from listening to OIAM.

Its interesting that the band seems to be in legacy mode now and the impact this will have on future releases. I hope they go through all the stuff in the vault sequentially, including Chinese sessions, culminating with a new record. 

 

[DeadSlash]

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/guns-n-roses-one-in-a-million-omission/

[GNRfan2008]

I think it's a great song, regardless of the controversial lyrics. This band was all about telling society to go screw itself. And now they want to censor their music, scrub it from the history books? They have a truckload of sexist songs in their discography. Better scrub those from the books as well. 

[Rayno]

On Friday, May 04, 2018 at 3:16 PM, mr-fukaji said:

As much as the music bangs, it's the sound of a coddled, white millionaire having a tone deaf temper tantrum and coke meltdown and is possibly the most embarrassing thing a band of that size and stature has ever done. It's to the band's credit that they want to forget about it. If you want to sing along and pretend you're sticking it to some invisible boogie man, you still can, whatever, but you're nuts if you think this band in 2018 is ever want to go near that song again.

Unfortunately you're right. Because the West is becoming less and less free and re-release of the song would destroy GNR credit (because of the media being full of PC fanatics).

To me it's one of their greatest songs, especially Izzy's guitar input is cool. As for the lyrics, they're embarassing sometimes, yes. Izzy hated the racist parts too. So did Slash. But if Axl would be brave enough to re-release in PC world of 2018, I would be impressed anyway. It would be an act of artistic freedom. Not gonna happen.

[Live Like a Suicide]

The lyrics are controversial, but it doesn't make them bad. I think the song is fantastic, and one of their best. It's a great semi-satirical and autobiographical look into the experience of a 'small-town white boy'  landing in a melting pot like LA for the first time. It can be offensive, but context matters.

[Rayno]

3 minutes ago, Live Like a Suicide said:

The lyrics are controversial, but it doesn't make them bad. I think the song is fantastic, and one of their best. It's a great semi-satirical and autobiographical look into the experience of a 'small-town white boy'  landing in a melting pot like LA for the first time. It can be offensive, but context matters.

Exactly. Let alone the fact rock'n'roll has been offensive since the day one. "Offensive" was also the most used brand for punk rockers. 

[Rayno]

As for the 'white millionaire' nonsense - Axl was definitely NOT the millionaire when he was writing the song. He was white, yes, but I don't care about people's skin color and I absolutely don't get the obsession with race. 

[estrangedtwat]

58 minutes ago, Rayno said:

As for the 'white millionaire' nonsense - Axl was definitely NOT the millionaire when he was writing the song. He was white, yes, but I don't care about people's skin color and I absolutely don't get the obsession with race. 

Sounds like you have too much cis-gen heteronormative WHITE PRIVILEGE then.