Living in Other Countries

[Graeme]

26 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Thanks for humouring me. I was gonna suggest we could clog them with plastic waste. 

What is the biggest unknown in volcanology? 

Overall? If it's possible to derive a reliable method to tell us beforehand when, how big and how intense an eruption is going to be... Volcanology's a bit of a coalition of disciplines; including pure geology, geophysics, geochemistry, seismology, geodesy and geography and all of those different areas of the science have their own minutiae to focus on, their own integral 'burning questions'.

We have no way of observing what goes on inside volcanoes, the environment is such that it would be impossible to get instruments in there to record any data, so a lot of those processes are a mystery to us. Physical volcanology focusses on the question of 'flow, or break', looking at how igneous material will deform under conditions of temperature and pressure. Basically, the rise of magma is driven by two things, its buoyancy relative to the solid rock around it and the expansion of gas bubbles within the melt. The chemical composition of the magma, the temperature, the pressure and the time for which it's incubated in a particular part of the crust can all influence the growth of bubbles and the way the melt responds to bubble nucleation. If you have a low viscosity magma (say, one that would erupt as basalt), generally speaking it will deform relatively easily when bubbles begin to grow (flow, rather than break), so it comes out like a liquid is propelled in a fountain:

If you have a higher viscosity magma, then when bubbles begin to nucleate, its rate of deformation can't keep up with the expansion of the bubbles so it doesn't deform fluidly, the outgassing tears the magma apart like it was a solid (in other words, it 'breaks'). These processes tend to be so violent that they pulverise the magma and the surrounding rock, creating the fragmented material we call volcanic ash (and blocks and bombs as well). This is an example on a pretty small scale:

This is why the extrusion of lava domes (see my other post) is also frequently accompanied by violent explosions, or why when lava domes collapse they can generate large PDCs, because the viscosity of the magma is such that it's generally much more difficult for gas to escape.

Aaaaanyway. Every volcano has magma of a different composition (indeed, it can vary from eruption to eruption or sometimes even change multiple times during the same eruption), the incubation situation (depth and time) is also different. As such, it's an incredibly complicated system with a lot of variables that, as a result are very difficult to model. That's probably our biggest challenge at the moment but it's not a single issue like you might find in some of the 'purer' disciplines.

I hope that's a good enough response, it's not my specific area of the science, I'm in applied volcanology (aka the 'how do we use what we know about volcanoes to stop them causing disasters' bit). 

[Graeme]

We're so far off-topic here it's unreal  .

[Dazey]

23 hours ago, Graeme said:

If you tried to clog them, chances are the lava would just penetrate the artificial blockages you tried to put in its way. 

Reckon a 3 year old could plug it with a coaster? It's done fucking wonders for my XBox!

Edited May 27, 2018 by Dazey

[spunko12345]

On 26/05/2018 at 12:33 PM, Len Cnut said:

Fixed.

I can't deny it 😁

[SoulMonster]

Huge outbreak of volcanism again, this time in Guatemala! When will this nightmare end?

[SoulMonster]

On ‎26‎.‎05‎.‎2018 at 5:26 PM, Graeme said:

Overall? If it's possible to derive a reliable method to tell us beforehand when, how big and how intense an eruption is going to be... Volcanology's a bit of a coalition of disciplines; including pure geology, geophysics, geochemistry, seismology, geodesy and geography and all of those different areas of the science have their own minutiae to focus on, their own integral 'burning questions'.

We have no way of observing what goes on inside volcanoes, the environment is such that it would be impossible to get instruments in there to record any data, so a lot of those processes are a mystery to us. Physical volcanology focusses on the question of 'flow, or break', looking at how igneous material will deform under conditions of temperature and pressure. Basically, the rise of magma is driven by two things, its buoyancy relative to the solid rock around it and the expansion of gas bubbles within the melt. The chemical composition of the magma, the temperature, the pressure and the time for which it's incubated in a particular part of the crust can all influence the growth of bubbles and the way the melt responds to bubble nucleation. If you have a low viscosity magma (say, one that would erupt as basalt), generally speaking it will deform relatively easily when bubbles begin to grow (flow, rather than break), so it comes out like a liquid is propelled in a fountain:

If you have a higher viscosity magma, then when bubbles begin to nucleate, its rate of deformation can't keep up with the expansion of the bubbles so it doesn't deform fluidly, the outgassing tears the magma apart like it was a solid (in other words, it 'breaks'). These processes tend to be so violent that they pulverise the magma and the surrounding rock, creating the fragmented material we call volcanic ash (and blocks and bombs as well). This is an example on a pretty small scale:

This is why the extrusion of lava domes (see my other post) is also frequently accompanied by violent explosions, or why when lava domes collapse they can generate large PDCs, because the viscosity of the magma is such that it's generally much more difficult for gas to escape.

Aaaaanyway. Every volcano has magma of a different composition (indeed, it can vary from eruption to eruption or sometimes even change multiple times during the same eruption), the incubation situation (depth and time) is also different. As such, it's an incredibly complicated system with a lot of variables that, as a result are very difficult to model. That's probably our biggest challenge at the moment but it's not a single issue like you might find in some of the 'purer' disciplines.

I hope that's a good enough response, it's not my specific area of the science, I'm in applied volcanology (aka the 'how do we use what we know about volcanoes to stop them causing disasters' bit). 

Thanks. Great answer.

What part of the environment of the insides of volcanoes prevents monitoring, is it the heat that is the major problem? I guess that if you try to inject some kind of heat-resistant probe, pressure will throw it out again?

[Graeme]

14 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Thanks. Great answer.

What part of the environment of the insides of volcanoes prevents monitoring, is it the heat that is the major problem? I guess that if you try to inject some kind of heat-resistant probe, pressure will throw it out again?

The heat (would likely destroy most man-made devices), the volatility of magma (drilling into a conduit could cause a release of pressure, triggering bubble nucleation and therefore an explosion that would probably destroy the probe and may even force its way up the borehole to the surface) and the general instability of volcanic edifices (a major drilling project would be extremely dangerous because volcanoes are generally subject to flank failure anyway, so undermining the existing structure is asking for trouble). Expense is another major factor, many volcano observatories can barely afford to keep a network of telemetered seismometers working, we're talking similar levels of engineering and funding required for space or deep sea exploration to carry this out, so it's not feasible for the majority of the world's volcanoes. One of my former professors is currently involved in planning for what's called the Krafla drilling project which may become (as far as I'm aware) the first serious effort to bore down into a subterranean body of magma. We'll see how that one turns out, but we're a long way from it being a regular practice. 

[SoulMonster]

They truly are Satan's blowholes.

[Graeme]

But they're so pretty  .

[Graeme]

Bumping this thread so I can post this picture that really brings Colima to life, you can see the Cathedral Basilica in the city centre and the way the volcanoes tower over everything. It's such a beautiful place.

[spunko12345]

3 minutes ago, Graeme said:

Bumping this thread so I can post this picture that really brings Colima to life, you can see the Cathedral Basilica in the city centre and the way the volcanoes tower over everything. It's such a beautiful place.

Majestic. When's it gonna blow?

[Graeme]

1 minute ago, spunko12345 said:

Majestic. When's it gonna blow?

Last explosions were in February 2017, it's been pretty quiet since then, but within the last few weeks there have been signs of fresh magma rising, so we may see some eruptions again soon. Hopefully if they start, I'll be able to go back in time to see some of them.

[spunko12345]

13 minutes ago, Graeme said:

Last explosions were in February 2017, it's been pretty quiet since then, but within the last few weeks there have been signs of fresh magma rising, so we may see some eruptions again soon. Hopefully if they start, I'll be able to go back in time to see some of them.

Any lava expected? Fingers crossed. And if you get out there in time for it please film it. Chuck an old pair of trainers into it or something, watch it sizzle.

[Graeme]

On 03/05/2019 at 10:55 PM, spunko12345 said:

Any lava expected? Fingers crossed. And if you get out there in time for it please film it. Chuck an old pair of trainers into it or something, watch it sizzle.

Bumped so I can show you this.

 

[spunko12345]

1 hour ago, Graeme said:

Bumped so I can show you this.

 

Awesome.

[SoulMonster]

When I worked with molten metal I remember that there were two things that should never meet but forever stay atwain, molten metal and water. No chance of violent explosion from that coke can experiment? Encapsulated can that turns to expanding gas that rapidly flings lava onto anyone nearby? 

[Len Cnut]

6 hours ago, Graeme said:

Bumped so I can show you this.

 

Cool!   Now show us a person!  

[SoulMonster]

7 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

Cool!   Now show us a person!  

Hah. That's unrealistic. How about a goat or similar? 

[spunko12345]

I'd love to throw a can of Lynx into it. Or petrol.

Would you rather trip and fall into that lava or fall into this?

 

[Graeme]

19 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

When I worked with molten metal I remember that there were two things that should never meet but forever stay atwain, molten metal and water. No chance of violent explosion from that coke can experiment? Encapsulated can that turns to expanding gas that rapidly flings lava onto anyone nearby? 

There is indeed a risk, but in the video I think the key difference is viscosity - that lava's probably much stodgier than the molten metal you were working with and will resist being 'flung' better, especially when the amount of coke being introduced is relatively small. 

This video shows exactly the phenomenon you describe, the whole container of water is submerged in the lava and the rapid expansion of gas from the boiling generates some explosive activity:

But you can see here when a man-made lava flow is poured onto a 15 cm-thick bed of ice that the lava is quite resistant to violently explosive deformation with a comparatively smaller body of water trapped under it, so the amount in the coke can would be unlikely to generate an explosion with enough force to propel globules of lava over bystanders (as evidenced by the fact that it subsumes both cans without much issue in the previous video, I guess). 

 

[Len Cnut]

11 hours ago, spunko12345 said:

I'd love to throw a can of Lynx into it. Or petrol.

Would you rather trip and fall into that lava or fall into this.

I wish we could take some down the breakers yard and try all different things out...there’s a blaupunkt!  There’s a steering rack for a 1989 Hyundai Pony!  

[spunko12345]

1 hour ago, Len Cnut said:

I wish we could take some down the breakers yard and try all different things out...there’s a blaupunkt!  There’s a steering rack for a 1989 Hyundai Pony!  

See how it gets on with a bowling ball or a car with someone in it.

[uncivil war]

Checked this thread to learn more about living in other countries,  left it knowing a shitload more about volcanoes...

I love the internet😊

[Graeme]

4 hours ago, uncivil war said:

Checked this thread to learn more about living in other countries,  left it knowing a shitload more about volcanoes...

I love the internet😊

If anyone wants to bring it back to the original topic, I'd be delighted. @Amir is currently living in México as well, so it'd be cool to have his perspective, but we surely have people here who've moved to other countries as well!

[SoulMonster]

Lava is just one of those inherent dangers if you move to another country. Beware them volcanos.