The Blues & There Was A Time 2001 Discussion **NO LINKS**

[zombux]

4 minutes ago, Wagszilla said:

I don’t really see a GNR album like NIN or MM.

It would be interesting to know or sure but “raw sounds” could easily be Robin and Paul’s abrupt bends and slides and dissonant riffs.

I mean Catcher was heavily manipulated by Sean and Axl in some sense so who the fuck knows what Robin’s version sounded like.

yup, we also know that all Robin's parts were stripped from the official version of OMG.

[wasted]

38 minutes ago, Wagszilla said:

I don’t really see a GNR album like NIN or MM.

It would be interesting to know or sure but “raw sounds” could easily be Robin and Paul’s abrupt bends and slides and dissonant riffs.

I mean Catcher was heavily manipulated by Sean and Axl in some sense so who the fuck knows what Robin’s version sounded like.

But those “demos” of IRS, Catcher with May, Twat, just had a flat simplicity to them. Beavan didn’t really get the GNR dynamics and probably applies to whatever else he recorded. Oh my god was also flat, dense. 

What RTB recorded seemed to have more depth and contrast. It might have been wayward or a mess but it gave Costanzo a lot of options. 

Then Ron came in and recorded new rhythmn tracks for everything and punched up the solos. 

I assume Beavan with Finck on lead was a simple record and you could hear all the parts, even Tommy’s bass. But Oh my god, Silkworms, Chi dem, Riad, IRS probably didn’t sound like GNR. Bucket came in and did his robot Slash impression, Chi dem went from a Nirvana song to sounding more like a reverse version of Jungle. Brain got that the drums needed to be bigger more Zeppelin. 

Edited June 13, 2018 by wasted

[wasted]

I keep forgetting that they still played The Blues live with Bucket. They didn’t play SOD until after the album came out. And what happened to that song is unknown to me. Did someone re-record stuff, it just has a tighter more metallic feel than the more laidback Elton John style The Blues. 

[zombux]

6 minutes ago, wasted said:

I keep forgetting that they still played The Blues live with Bucket. They didn’t play SOD until after the album came out. And what happened to that song is unknown to me. Did someone re-record stuff, it just has a tighter more metallic feel than the more laidback Elton John style The Blues. 

correct, it was renamed quite shortly before the album was released. no idea why. and yeah, I wrote it here already, I don't get it what they did to the song, cuz I don't like the album version. that 2001/2 rendition sounds best.

[wasted]

1 minute ago, zombux said:

correct, it was renamed quite shortly before the album was released. no idea why. and yeah, I wrote it here already, I don't get it what they did to the song, cuz I don't like the album version. that 2001/2 rendition sounds best.

There was some re-recording with Costanzo and digital editing. So it was renamed because it was the new version. As I remember The Blues opened with the riff? Axl called The Blues “campy” at a live show. SOD seemed more angry. And the focus changed to that line about “street of dreams” whereas The Blues made a big thing of the blues line. The emphasis is different. 

[soon]

41 minutes ago, Creed said:

Just realized that TWAT sounds somehow like Extreme ways by Moby. Could it be that Moby heard TWAT in 1997?

I just listened to it Extreme Ways for first time and yeah, it sounds similar. It was recorded in 01 so not too long after he was with GNR. Doesn't Moby use that rhythm a lot? And also descending chord patterns? Almost like Guns were vibeing off Moby rather then the reverse maybe? But who knows, it could be as you say. Its a neat observation regardless.

I also hear a hint of Turn The Page in there too.

[Blackstar]

Ezrin must have been in late 2000. From Chinese Whispers:

"Bob Ezrin - best known for producing Pink Floyd's The Wall - has signed on as A&R man for the project." (Allstarmag, 10/30/00)

Beavan said that he left before Ezrin came (he actually said he recommended Ezrin to the label people before he left)

Summaries and observations on the interview:

 

Edited June 13, 2018 by Blackstar

[Powerage5]

6 hours ago, zombux said:

hmmm... interesting. so there are a few "waves" of demos we already have. 

 

"1999 demos" - IRS, TWAT, CITR + probably "Checkmate" + maybe also Atlas Shrugged - pre-BH era, but probably the year might be up to 2001, TWAT here is not that different from the RTB mix that leaked recently

"2001 RTB mixes" - Maddy, TWAT, The Blues - no trace of Buckethead, so those might come from 1999-2000, altough mixes might be newer, up to 2002 maybe

"2002 Boston/Albany promo" - ChiDem, Maddy, The Blues - first very prominent guitar work by Buckethead

"IRS Piazza recording" - it went on air in August 2003, so it can't be newer than this. I don't remember if it in fact is the very same track as "1999 demo" or "early 2006 leaked demo"

"early 2006 leaked demos" - IRS, Better, two versions of TWAT + instrumentals - obviously these can't be newer than february 2006, and have Buckethead all over them - so I'd say recorded 2001-2003 or early 2004 at most (Bucket left for good in March 2004)

"2013 Bumblefoot guitar demos" - Going Down, OMG, Silkworms + probably Atlas Shrugged - the demos are older (anything between 2000 and 2005, but sound like 2001), Bumble's guitar is around May or June 2006

"Better early 2007 leaked demo" - unsure if this was the part of the next bunch, it's presumably the same as used in 2006 Harley Davidson commercial

"2007 leaked demos" - Maddy, ChiDem, The Blues, Better, TWAT - these still don't feature Bumblefoot/Frank, so probably they are newer mixes recorded in similar years as the ones before

"Antiquiet leaks 2008" - the same songs as a year before + Better - Bumblefoot is prominent there, so these must be newer than say May 2006 - of course only the Bumblefoot's and Frank's parts may be older, but the mixes must be recent.

"pre-ChiDem leaks" - Rhiad, Prostitute, ITW - probably older mixes, because they have no Bumblefoot on them, or he doesn't play prominently there (?)

"Chicken Binge" - Shackler's Revenge - very similar to album version, so probably recent mix

"Better by Bumblefoot" - recorded during Barefoot EP sessions, that is late summer or fall 2008

(album released here)

"Better by DJ Ashba" - probably recorded in late 2009 before the tour started

"Brain remixes" - Better Gone, BITW, Shackler, ITW, TIL, probably also Sorry - Brain talked about having remixed Shackler as early as April 2009, but it seems the work was gradual, until like mid 2010. Better Gone is using acoustic guitar parts from Bumblefoot's version and probably the same vocal line was used.

 

your thoughts? I might be wrong in many ideas.

 

 

IRS 2003 has always sounded to be the same as 2006 to me. Obviously the quality is just dreadful, because it was recorded of playback on radio.

5 hours ago, ApacheChief42 said:

This seems right to me. But can you clarify, is the "Better early 2007 leaked demo" the same as the Better 2006 demo? It's the only one on this list that I've never heard before. Also, the IRS Piazza recording is the same as 1999 IRS.

Better 2006 and 2007 are different. It's been a while since I've listened to either one, but I seem to recall 2007 being more polished in general, and a lot more Pitman in the middle section. 

[AFGnR]

Good time for leaks. What a mess CD was, all that tinkering and edits and mixes and effects and layers and years wasted.

Edited June 14, 2018 by AFGnR

[JeDr]

Wish I could here them, as well as the other new leaks. I really liked the older Maddy and The Blues versions I heard years back!

[felixGNR]

After all the discussion  you guys are having, about remixes /producers/versions

 You have to know that all the "3 records  worth of material " is plain  bullshit.

He wasted  time tinkering  with the same 9 songs(rejected more than once) over and over again.

There is no holy grail or masterpieces.

He needs musicians that can  feed him inspiration.

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, felixGNR said:

 You have to know that all the "3 records  worth of material " is plain  bullshit.

How can we know that when so many people have talked about unreleased songs and material? Based on this, we have to assume there is more material, in various states of competion.

Edited June 15, 2018 by SoulMonster

[zombux]

11 minutes ago, felixGNR said:

After all the discussion  you guys are having, about remixes /producers/versions

 You have to know that all the "3 records  worth of material " is plain  bullshit.

He wasted  time tinkering  with the same 9 songs(rejected more than once) over and over again.

There is no holy grail or masterpieces.

He needs musicians that can  feed him inspiration.

he got plenty of musicians for his own disposal. those guys wasted their talent, patience and many years of their life being sitting ducks, recording the same stuff again and again. the unability of releasing anything is his very own problem, not of anyone else.

you should check Chinese Whispers and read them carefully from start to end.

[ZoSoRose]

17 minutes ago, felixGNR said:

After all the discussion  you guys are having, about remixes /producers/versions

 You have to know that all the "3 records  worth of material " is plain  bullshit.

He wasted  time tinkering  with the same 9 songs(rejected more than once) over and over again.

There is no holy grail or masterpieces.

He needs musicians that can  feed him inspiration.

This is very likely

[soon]

In Beavan's recent GNR Central podcast he said he believes that 'everything' he worked on made the album. He seemed fuzzy on it; almost like he was guessing. I actually wondered if he hadn't listened to the final version, at least not repeatedly, based on his response. Silkworms didn't make the album for example, and he worked on that.

Then there are the songs that came later like Sorry and Better.

I personally believe there are other songs that are at the very least musically ready to go. Brian has mentioned his favourite songs didnt get released on CD and I doubt he's talking about a riff as a song. Finck has said that his favourite guitar stuff wasn't on the album, including the Stevie Ray Vaughn style solo that others have also praised. I place a lot of value on Finck and Brains taste and therefore would be excited to hear their personal favs.

Unreleased tracks like Oklahoma seem to have lyrics because Axl has shared the inspiration for the lyrics.

I think there are far more tidbits that in no way resemble finished songs as well. But that there are also some finished or near finished songs too.

Another hint, reading between the lines, was Axls comment at China Exchange about wanting to start songwriting process with vocals and melody and then having musicians work around that. He also said in same interview that he had shown some stuff to Duff and Slash. Now to me that seems like he was talking about having Duff and Slash build up new tracks around his CD leftover vocal takes. No proof of course.

[Inamible]

Well, as I couldn't stand 3 seconds of the piano intro being missed in The Blues, I take the those first seconds from the Antiquiet leak and pasted it to this version. Not the most elegant solution, I know, but it fits perfectly and it makes the song now "complete".

[timoteo]

this is honestly the best version of the song

[DaneisKing1389]

Did the Brain mixes for If the World, Shacklers, and Sorry ever leak?

[RussTCB]

16 hours ago, timoteo said:

this is honestly the best version of the song

Couldn't agree more.

2 hours ago, DaneisKing1389 said:

Did the Brain mixes for If the World, Shacklers, and Sorry ever leak?

Not that I'm aware of.

[MrMojo]

11 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Couldn't agree more.

Not that I'm aware of.

Blues 2001 is absolutely phenomenal.. if it was mixed somehow to included added orchestral parts, guitar on the bridge, bucketheads outro, axl's ah ah ah ah's at the end without it sounding muddled and by retaining the rock vibe I think it would be perfect. TWAT 2001's drums I prefer because they sound thumpier if you get me.

I'd love to hear alt mixes, versions outtakes etc of the chinese sessions if they still exist somewhere officially released. The songs are too good.

Edited June 19, 2018 by MrMojo

[wasted]

On 16/06/2018 at 12:09 AM, SoulMonster said:

How can we know that when so many people have talked about unreleased songs and material? Based on this, we have to assume there is more material, in various states of competion.

There was 30 tracks in 2006, 26 of which were finished. 

Axl said CD II and Remix were done. So I’d say at least 12 tracks on CD II. 

[F*ck Fear]

3 hours ago, wasted said:

There was 30 tracks in 2006, 26 of which were finished. 

Axl said CD II and Remix were done. So I’d say at least 12 tracks on CD II. 

I'll probably be hung for saying this, but hearing the 12 complete tracks is something I want more than "new" material.

[wasted]

30 minutes ago, F*ck Fear said:

I'll probably be hung for saying this, but hearing the 12 complete tracks is something I want more than "new" material.

Well at least those 12 tracks exist in some form whereas new material is something that might happen. There’s new and old new. GNR has always been about going back to the future. 

[Pskihq92]

Does anyone else only listen to this version of SoD now?  I love it 

[timoteo]

38 minutes ago, Pskihq92 said:

Does anyone else only listen to this version of SoD now?  I love it 

Haha you ain't alone.