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Perhaps they would have avoided breaking up (and the debacle that was this entire era) if they just kept Gilby. Not sure why they didn't want him anymore, was that Axl's call?

The funniest part is that Gilby ended up writing what might be the strongest solo record out of all  of them.

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6 minutes ago, Ace Spade said:

Perhaps they would have avoided breaking up (and the debacle that was this entire era) if they just kept Gilby. Not sure why they didn't want him anymore, was that Axl's call?

The funniest part is that Gilby ended up writing what might be the strongest solo record out of all  of them.

Axl wanted to aim for more modern sound, while Gilby was a classical guy, so he didn't fit into Axl's "vision". see http://www.gnrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?pid=53942#p53942

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46 minutes ago, Creed said:

 

 

Matt:

"'Paul Huge walked into the studio and made a bad comment about Slash,' says Sorum. I said, 'You don't say that when I'm in the room.' Then Axl laid in, I argued with him and it was over. Huge followed me out into the parking lot and said, 'Come back.' I said, 'I can't come back, he's fired me. Do you feel good about breaking up one of the greatest bands that ever lived?'" (Q Magazine, 05/01)

Slash:"It was like talking to a wall, a wall with a bad attitude. He was totally arrogant and gave off the vibe that he was Axl's boy, that he was in, and that everyone else had to deal with it. In a word, his vibe was "I'm great, fuck you!" And my response was "Yeah? Whatever!" (Slash, autobiography).

 

But again, the main problem was Axl. He wanted to add Zakk and Paul, while the band didn't want to. Axls comments are totally bizarre and confusing about that era. Axl went totally nuts. For some reasons he was pushing out Slash out of the band. 

Yeah, not sure either of those quotes implies Paul "mobbed" Slash.

Regardless, according to Axl he brought in Paul because they needed another guitar player after Gilby was gone, they needed someone to help in the writing and to compliment Slash, and, again according to Axl, neither Slash or Duff ever suggested anyone. Axl knew Paul well, they had written a few tunes together that would become GN'R songs, and Axl felt Paul's playing style would be ideal. Basically, Axl's story is that the band was not moving anywhere and he wanted to push the band forward by bringing in guys to motivate Slash. At the time, Slash was furious with Axl, Slash wanted to play the simpler rock songs, Slash was insulted when Paul's guitar appeared on SFTD, etc, so it all backfired on Axl.

I don't think there really is much disagreement on the above summary of what went down, expect that Slash will probably say that he didn't need another guitarist, or that Gilby should have been brought back in, or that he did suggest other players. I dunno.

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21 minutes ago, Ace Spade said:

Perhaps they would have avoided breaking up (and the debacle that was this entire era) if they just kept Gilby. Not sure why they didn't want him anymore, was that Axl's call?

Gilby was on a contract, and when it ran out it wasn't renewed. Axl had already in 1992 said they weren't sure they wanted to write music with Gilby, and that he was just brought in for the UYI touring. After the tour, Axl called Slash and they discussed Gilby. Axl explained why he thought the contract shouldn't be renewed, why they should go with someone else as a guitar player, and according to Slash he "sort of went along with it". At the time, Slash was angry with Gilby because of something that had happened at a rehearsal. It was no way of coming back from that phone call, and Slash talked to Gilby telling him they would not work more with him. Later on Slash would put all the blame on Axl, for instance he claims in his biography that Axl fired Gilby "without consulting anyone", which is directly contradicted by interviews Slash did in 1995 where he mentioned the phone he had with Axl and that it was him (Slash) who actually told Gilby he wasn't wanted anymore. 

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38 minutes ago, Creed said:

But in 1996 Slash said he wanted Gilby back for GnR. 

To sum it up. Axl is the main reason GnR felt apart. Paul was Axl's mobbing tool. The other reason were drugs. Slash was totally high in 1996-1997. It was not fun  to work with him. GnR needed a break from 1994-2001. 

 

I don't think drugs had much direct impact when it came to Axl. They managed to write and release music in the 80s when Izzy and Slash were strung out (some songs were even written while high), although Axl was concerned (resulting in the infamous dancing with Mr. Brownstone speech); they managed to write and release UYIs in the 90s when Slash was so out of it he thought he was chased by aliens, although Steven couldn't handle it and was fired; and Slash continued writing and making music after the UYI tour still as an addict. So he was very much a functioning addict, give or take a few occasions, and Axl of course knew this.

The problems with drugs were more indirect: It meant that Izzy and Axl distanced themselves from Slash, Duff and Steven/Matt/Gilby. Izzy couldn't be around rampant drug use our of fear for falling back, and Axl couldn't be part of the heavy party scene (he needed to preserve his voice and was increasingly falling under the spell of quacks). The drug use naturally worried Axl (as mentioned above), he believed the band would fall apart because of drugs (it was part of driving Izzy away) -- which was also one of the reasons the band released a double album, Axl wanted to put out so much music as possible before the band fell apart.

So drug use didn't directly cause the band to fall apart in the mid 90s (although it did destroy the AFD lineup when Steven was fired and Izzy quit). What made the band fall apart in the mid 90s, in my opinion, was the increasing distance between Axl and Slash, both in terms of space (they didn't interact as much anymore, often just through legal representatives and management, and they lived and travelled apart) and musical vision (Axl wanted more, Slash was happy with what they had), as well as problems with communication (Slash grudgingly went along with many of Axl's ideas, resulting in a band that he wasn't entirely happy with, and being annoyed with himself for losing control of the band). At the end, Slash wasn't happy enough to stay in the band, it wasn't the band he wanted anymore, and it had become that way partly because Slash had allowed it to by not standing up to Axl. He was angry at Axl for the distance, maybe he felt manipulated by him, and he was likely angry with himself for allowing Axl to take so much control. So he quit to follow his other plans. 

There is little that suggests Axl wanted Slash out. His anger with Slash came after the break, when he felt Slash was distorting what had went down in interviews and his book, and because of legal disputes.

Edited by SoulMonster
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6 minutes ago, tremolo said:

Come on, Panwshop Guitars is a nice album, but that’s it. It’s just derivative rock n roll. The song Black alone kills that whole album, it’s like a fucking simple plan song lol.

Based on that album (the only one of his that i’ve listened to), he composes good music, but his lyrics are crap.

my favourite albums from him are PG, Swag and those two live albums (Blooze and Episode 99 Live), but that's kind of it. Hangover and Rubber are bad. Kill for Thrills is quite good, but still a classic late 80's rock. and if you put all these into a row, you'll see what Axl meant when Gilby doesn't fit into his plan - Gilby can make a cool song, but he has about two or three patterns which he follows and is kind of unable to make a step forward. 

Edited by zombux
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1 hour ago, tremolo said:

I think drugs were a HUGE part, isn’t that what fueled the whole legal bs so Axl could take ownership from them? In a way to secure the whole thing before the drunkies/junkies/cokeheads pissed it all away with bad decisions (marriages, wifes taking part of it, etc)?

Today it is more clear than ever that Axl always saw GNR as his band. There’s no way Axl would have risked leaving the fate of his baby to a bunch of drug addicts.

Axl has probably always seen the band he's been in as his band - way back since AXL in Lafayette, continuing with AXL in LA (later renamed Rose and Hollywood Rose, altough the band was originally started by Izzy and Chris Weber) and of course GNR.

the obvious exceptions being AC/DC, most probably also LA Guns (as it was Tracii's band) and we can only guess about Rapidfire but that one was likely Kevin Lawrence's band.

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8 hours ago, Creed said:

Slash:"It was like talking to a wall, a wall with a bad attitude. He was totally arrogant and gave off the vibe that he was Axl's boy, that he was in, and that everyone else had to deal with it. In a word, his vibe was "I'm great, fuck you!" And my response was "Yeah? Whatever!" (Slash, autobiography).

 

But again, the main problem was Axl. He wanted to add Zakk and Paul, while the band didn't want to. Axls comments are totally bizarre and confusing about that era. Axl went totally nuts. For some reasons he was pushing out Slash out of the band. 

I think it was much more complicated than that. Two weeks in the studio with Paul giving that "vibe" and even the SFTD story were far from enough to break up a band. Zakk Wylde was just a "let's see if it works" thing, a jam for 1-2 weeks. Duff didn't have a problem with him and Axl admitted it didn't work.

Their problems were much deeper and had their roots to the UYI era (recordings and tour). They were hardly communicating directly and everything went back and forth via Doug Goldstein. The miscommunication became worse after the tour.

Slash didn't want to do another UYI, not only in regards to the direction, but also in regards to the whole process and the time it took. In other words, he wasn't willing to do another album "Axl's way", he wanted to make a quick, simple album and go on tour (his drug habit had also to do with that, because the time off the road would sink him deeper into heroin). So, the only way he would have done an album was his way, i.e. if Axl had just sang on his Snakepit material and maybe he would've accepted one Axl ballad, like he had said. He had been thinking about doing a solo project since 1991, so, when Axl didn't like most of his Snakepit stuff and Gilby was out, he took it and made a solo album. 

Axl wanted something else. Most likely he didn't have it clear in his head what he wanted exactly, he wanted a new element and to him Gilby wasn't good enough for that. He was also dealing with personal issues, lawsuits etc. 

Paul Tobias and, to an extent, the musical differences (which they had managed to work out in the past) were just symptoms (unless there was something more with Paul we don't know about, as Slash kept emphasising that it was "personal"). The power games (Izzy's phasing out and eventual departure was a factor there, as his presence balanced things) and the miscommunication were the cause.

 

Edited by Blackstar
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As I've said before, Rose sees bands/Guns differently from everybody else. Under Rose's vision, it is possible to be sort of in Guns N' Roses but not in Guns N' Roses at the same time. With most bands this stuff is clear as day but Rose likes these musicians who have a nebulous relationship with the group. 

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Terrible performance by Axl. How some people can say he sounded better here than today is ludicrous. If he performed an entire show like this on the NiTL tour people would write him off. Absolute shite. Even Berlin '18 is a better performance than this and that was one of his worst in years.

Even It's So Easy sounded like dogshit.

Cool that they played Oh My God though, I'd like to see them revisit that one, be cool to hear Slash's take on it.

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7 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

As I've said before, Rose sees bands/Guns differently from everybody else. Under Rose's vision, it is possible to be sort of in Guns N' Roses but not in Guns N' Roses at the same time. With most bands this stuff is clear as day but Rose likes these musicians who have a nebulous relationship with the group. 

exactly. only that's why some really crazy things was happening back in the day http://www.gnrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?id=13280

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6 minutes ago, AlexC said:

Terrible performance by Axl. How some people can say he sounded better here than today is ludicrous. If he performed an entire show like this on the NiTL tour people would write him off. Absolute shite. Even Berlin '18 is a better performance than this and that was one of his worst in years.

Even It's So Easy sounded like dogshit.

Cool that they played Oh My God though, I'd like to see them revisit that one, be cool to hear Slash's take on it.

This is just a bad opinion. 2018 Axl voice cracks every time he goes out of his lower register. He has some of his most powerful high screams in this show. 

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40 minutes ago, AlexC said:

Terrible performance by Axl. How some people can say he sounded better here than today is ludicrous. If he performed an entire show like this on the NiTL tour people would write him off. Absolute shite. Even Berlin '18 is a better performance than this and that was one of his worst in years.

Even It's So Easy sounded like dogshit.

Cool that they played Oh My God though, I'd like to see them revisit that one, be cool to hear Slash's take on it.

This show is better vocally than all of 2017-2018.

And it's not even close.

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22 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

This show is better vocally than all of 2017-2018.

And it's not even close.

A pro shot of these recent 2018 shows would tell the true story... when he’s buried behind 8 other players or whatever audience recordings don’t tell the story 

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1 hour ago, AlexC said:

Terrible performance by Axl. How some people can say he sounded better here than today is ludicrous. If he performed an entire show like this on the NiTL tour people would write him off. Absolute shite. Even Berlin '18 is a better performance than this and that was one of his worst in years.

Even It's So Easy sounded like dogshit.

Cool that they played Oh My God though, I'd like to see them revisit that one, be cool to hear Slash's take on it.

Alex show your way out..this might be the worst opinion I’ve read on here 

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1 hour ago, Haters Gonna Hate said:

If only the album came out then. Surprised how much better this warmup show was than Rio lol. Gnr was always bad at Rio I guess

That's the main thing I think when I've seen this: "Man, if only the album came out that same year!"

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29 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

Dude we have a pro-shot and soundboards from last year. Aside from about 5 songs, the Apollo, Forum and Rio shows weren't good. San Diego and Japan weren't good. He sounded bad when he was 10 ft in front of me in Vancouver. And he sounds even worse in the audience recordings from this year, so, what story is there to tell?

I’m just saying these 2018 shows, especially the first one, vocally have been the worst in history, besides bridge school. 

Edited by Underhardy
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4 minutes ago, andy_rose said:

Bad at Rio always?? You have seen 91 Rio right?

Rio 91 was insanely glorious. yeah, there were some fuckups, but generally they couldn't take away the overall greatness! :) I loved the show, both nights. 

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1 minute ago, zombux said:

Rio 91 was insanely glorious. yeah, there were some fuckups, but generally they couldn't take away the overall greatness! :) I loved the show, both nights. 

Fuckups, sure, they always had that. But Rio 91 is always something my friends put on when we sit around a table a saturday night, having beers and having a go on youtube. Casual fans, and they always plays Pretty tied up, go figure. 

Might be bc they started with it hehehe

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30 minutes ago, Underhardy said:

I’m just saying these 2018 shows, especially the first one, vocally have been the worst in history, besides bridge school. 

Agreed. There's always hope that he'll turn it around, like at the last few 2014 shows, but he's deteriorated over the course of this tour to the point where even he acknowledges he 'sucks', and it's frustrating as hell because it seems like he shouldn't have these issues. The guy has made millions of dollars but won't keep his voice in shape between tour legs with a voice coach... <_<

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3 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

Agreed. There's always hope that he'll turn it around, like at the last few 2014 shows, but he's deteriorated over the course of this tour to the point where even he acknowledges he 'sucks', and it's frustrating as hell because it seems like he shouldn't have these issues. The guy has made millions of dollars but won't keep his voice in shape between tour legs with a voice coach... <_<

Yes. Thats why I dont wanna go to another country, use all my money doing it just to see them anymore. 

Was in Poland last year and that gig was, as Melissa would say lit, but happy they are coming to my "backyard" in July.

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