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7 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

Agreed. There's always hope that he'll turn it around, like at the last few 2014 shows, but he's deteriorated over the course of this tour to the point where even he acknowledges he 'sucks', and it's frustrating as hell because it seems like he shouldn't have these issues. The guy has made millions of dollars but won't keep his voice in shape between tour legs with a voice coach... <_<

Yeah. If only he took it as serious as he should. Lebron James puts over a million dollars into physical training every single year to be the best he can every night. Axl should do the same, but his motivation has been in question time and time again. Now it’s down to $ and that’s about it. 

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9 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

Agreed. There's always hope that he'll turn it around, like at the last few 2014 shows, but he's deteriorated over the course of this tour to the point where even he acknowledges he 'sucks', and it's frustrating as hell because it seems like he shouldn't have these issues. The guy has made millions of dollars but won't keep his voice in shape between tour legs with a voice coach... <_<

I fear that this is not just about a voice coach, to me it seems that something happened with his voice around 2011 (a surgery?) and he just can't sing the way he did before. agreed that in 2001-2 the "helium banshee" wasn't that great either, but Mickey since circa 2012 is just plain embarassing.

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21 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

I'm weird. I prefer the album cuts. I like how it turned out. I do quite like 2001 The Blues, though

Though I do prefer almost every early version I've heard to those that ended up on the album, that's not what I was taking about here specifically. 

I'm talking more about the timeline. Like "I wonder how much different the past 2 decades might have been if this line up released that album in 2001 and had any chance at gaining some momentum" 

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2 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Though I do prefer almost every early version I've heard to those that ended up on the album, that's not what I was taking about here specifically. 

I'm talking more about the timeline. Like "I wonder how much different the past 2 decades might have been if this line up released that album in 2001 and had any chance at gaining some momentum" 

Oh yeah absolutely. I also things would be very different if the album was #1 and had a hit in 2008

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31 minutes ago, Underhardy said:

Yeah. If only he took it as serious as he should. Lebron James puts over a million dollars into physical training every single year to be the best he can every night. Axl should do the same, but his motivation has been in question time and time again. Now it’s down to $ and that’s about it. 

Yea, it's unfortunate that he doesn't seem motivated. He sounds best when he's got something to prove; 2010, AC/DC, the April and Summer 2016 shows, but since 2016 it's been just 'The Slash Show feat. Axl & Duff'.

28 minutes ago, zombux said:

I fear that this is not just about a voice coach, to me it seems that something happened with his voice around 2011 (a surgery?) and he just can't sing the way he did before. agreed that in 2001-2 the "helium banshee" wasn't that great either, but Mickey since circa 2012 is just plain embarassing.

I think lack of proper maintenance (whether that means with a vocal coach or not) was a huge factor post-2010, it seemed like something happened around mid-2010 that made him say 'fuck it' (even though he was still great vocally, he'd tried to cancel the tour, CD2/re-release was rumoured to have been turned down, and he apparently tried to disband the line-up).
The strain he put on his voice over the 2010 tour, coupled with not only 'not maintaining or adapting that voice', but seemingly just not singing for the next year, probably caused damage that is either the reason for the 'mickey' voice, or the likely cause of whatever surgery that led to the 'mickey' voice. The 2011 tour was the result of a lawsuit, not something he necessarily wanted to do. I think 'mickey' is just the voice he 'settled for' that wouldn't damage his voice further.

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3 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

Yea, it's unfortunate that he doesn't seem motivated. He sounds best when he's got something to prove; 2010, AC/DC, the April and Summer 2016 shows, but since 2016 it's been just 'The Slash Show feat. Axl & Duff'.

I think lack of proper maintenance (whether that means with a vocal coach or not) was a huge factor post-2010, it seemed like something happened around mid-2010 that made him say 'fuck it' (even though he was still great vocally, he'd tried to cancel the tour, CD2/re-release was rumoured to have been turned down, and he apparently tried to disband the line-up).
The strain he put on his voice over the 2010 tour, coupled with not only 'not maintaining or adapting that voice', but seemingly just not singing for the next year, probably caused damage that is either the reason for the 'mickey' voice, or the likely cause of whatever surgery that led to the 'mickey' voice. The 2011 tour was the result of a lawsuit, not something he necessarily wanted to do. I think 'mickey' is just the voice he 'settled for' that wouldn't damage his voice further.

Can you give us a source for his?

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3 minutes ago, Sosso said:

Can you give us a source for his?

I believe it was in MSL's 'internal emails' debacle where he talked about DJ making more than Ron, Dizzy and Caram requesting back-pay, there was a bunch of shit he claimed were in the emails and Axl dissolving the band was one of them. I'll have a look for them.

edit: I meant to imply in the original post it was just a rumor, not something I'm claiming is true, just to be clear.

Edited by Gordon Comstock
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3 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

I believe it was in MSL's 'internal emails' debacle where he talked about DJ making more than Ron, Dizzy and Caram requesting back-pay, there was a bunch of shit he claimed were in the emails and Axl dissolving the band was one of them. I'll have a look for them.

Interesting. It seems like Chris was not the only one who wasn't paid by Axl. 

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Here's the list of documents, Axl apparently tried to dissolve GNR in December 2009 and June 2010 (says MSL)

 

Spoiler

List of 101 internal GNR documents:

001. Sheng Tang Music Festival PDF

002. DJ Ashba's contract

003. June 2010 Axl email dissolving GNR

004. December 2009 Axl email dissolving GNR

005. Doc's 2011 plan powerpoint

006. Better_Gone.mp3

007. January 2010 Caram Castanzo email about bonus tracks

008. November 2010 Axl email bitching about Bumblefoot

009. January 2011 email about cutting everyone's pay (part 1)

010. January 2011 email about cutting everyone's pay (part 2)

011. Chinese Democracy band member payments and recoupment

012. Chinese Democracy band producer charts

013. January 2010 Axl email complaining about Dr. Dre

014. October 2009 Axl email to Bumblefoot about Duff rejoining

015. December 2009 Brain email submitting Better remix to Fernando

016. Better video treatment v1

017. Chinese Democracy World Tour Income & Expenses

018. 2009 Band Rehearsal Expenses

019. Tour Income & Expense Summary Production rehearsals (11/09)

020. Chinese Democracy video treatmeant

021. 2010 Europe Leg #2 Budget Summary

022. Geffen Records contract for Second Album (January 2007)

023. Street of Dreams video treatment

024. January 2009 email discussing possible replacements for Robin

025. January 2010 email discussing new versions of Knockin' on Heaven's Door

026. January 2011 Caram Castanzo email complaining about back pay

027. July 2010 email outlining 2011 tour plans, including co-headliners

028. Better video treatment v2

029. June 2010 Caram Castanzo email about bonus tracks & second album

030. Robin Finck Resignation Letter (part 1)

031. Robin Finck Resignation Letter (part 2)

032. Robin Finck Resignation Letter (part 3)

033. July 2008 Axl letter to Robin about leaks

034. September 2008 Axl email about Slash, reunion, old members, etc. (part 1)

035. September 2008 Axl email about Slash, reunion, old members, etc. (part 2)

036. September 2008 Axl email about Slash, reunion, old members, etc. (part 3)

037. September 2008 Axl email about Slash, reunion, old members, etc. (part 4)

038. September 2008 Axl email about Slash, reunion, old members, etc. (part 5)

039. September 2008 Axl email about Slash, reunion, old members, etc. (part 6)

040. September 2008 Axl email about Slash, reunion, old members, etc. (part 7)

041. September 2008 Axl email about Slash, reunion, old members, etc. (part 8)

042. September 2008 Axl email about Slash, reunion, old members, etc. (part 9)

043. September 2008 Axl email about Slash, reunion, old members, etc. (part 10)

044. September 2008 Axl email about Slash, reunion, old members, etc. (part 11)

045. September 2008 Axl email about Slash, reunion, old members, etc. (part 12)

046. September 2008 Axl email about Slash, reunion, old members, etc. (part 13)

047. January 2008 Shanghai and Beijing festival offers

048. January 2008 Axl email about how many albums to release (part 1)

049. January 2008 Axl email about how many albums to release (part 2)

050. February 2007 lawsuit threat from fan hit with mic (part 1)

051. February 2007 lawsuit threat from fan hit with mic (part 2)

052. December 2006 letter threatening to sue Zakk Wylde

053. December 2005 Slash email threatening photographer

054. April 2006 Axl Rose tour rider

055. November 2009 Axl Rose letter to Irving Azoff about Beta, reunion, etc (part 1)

056. November 2009 Axl Rose letter to Irving Azoff about Beta, reunion, etc (part 2)

057. November 2009 Axl Rose letter to Irving Azoff about Beta, reunion, etc (part 3)

058. November 2009 Axl Rose letter to Irving Azoff about Beta, reunion, etc (part 4)

059. November 2009 Axl Rose letter to Irving Azoff about Beta, reunion, etc (part 5)

060. November 2009 Axl Rose letter to Irving Azoff about Beta, reunion, etc (part 6)

061. November 2009 Axl Rose letter to Irving Azoff about Beta, reunion, etc (part 7)

062. November 2009 Axl Rose letter to Irving Azoff about Beta, reunion, etc (part 8)

063. June 2008 Beta letter about who deserves credit for Sweet Child O' Mine (part 1)

064. June 2008 Beta letter about who deserves credit for Sweet Child O' Mine (part 2)

065. June 2008 Brain email about which producers deserve credit

066. June 2008 Axl email complaining about Tommy siding with Roy over Caram

067. June 2008 Dizzy email about which producers deserve credit (part 1)

068. June 2008 Dizzy email about which producers deserve credit (part 2)

069. June 2008 Dizzy email about which producers deserve credit (part 3)

070. January 2008 Fernando email listing Axl enemies / Slash allies

071. January 2008 Sebastian Bach email about entering rehab

072. February 2010 Axl email making NY plans

073. October 2004 Beta email to Merck about how to trick Axl, Slash lawsuit, etc (part 1)

074. October 2004 Beta email to Merck about how to trick Axl, Slash lawsuit, etc (part 2)

075. October 2009 Axl email about Duff wanting back in and people wanting Tommy out (part 1)

076. October 2009 Axl email about Duff wanting back in and people wanting Tommy out (part 2)

077. October 2009 Axl email about Duff wanting back in and people wanting Tommy out (part 3)

078. October 2009 Beta/Dizzy conversation about everyone wanting Tommy out

079. December 2008 Axl letter about why he's always late (part 1)

080. December 2008 Axl letter about why he's always late (part 2)

081. December 2008 Axl letter about why he's always late (part 3)

082. February 2007 Unpaid studio and producer invoices

083. March 2009 email outlining the tour dates with Van Halen

084. March 2006 Band and crew rehearsal payroll

085. August 2009 Dizzy email begging for update from Beta

086. February 2010 Financial guarantees for each European festival in May (part 1)

087. February 2010 Financial guarantees for each European festival in May (part 2)

088. May 2010 unpublished Axl tweet giving his side of the story re: Azoff (part 1)

089. May 2010 unpublished Axl tweet giving his side of the story re: Azoff (part 2)

090. May 2010 unpublished Axl tweet giving his side of the story re: Azoff (part 3)

091. April 2010 Income and Expense summaries Asia/Canada/South America (part 1)

092. April 2010 Income and Expense summaries Asia/Canada/South America (part 2)

093. April 2010 Income and Expense summaries Asia/Canada/South America (part 3)

094. April 2010 DJ Ashba email to Doc about Axl wanting to fire DJ

095. April 2010 Axl email dissolving GNR and insisting DJ Ashba be sued

096. January 2008 Axl letter about his feelings on Velvet Revolver (part 1)

097. January 2008 Axl letter about his feelings on Velvet Revolver (part 2)

098. January 2008 Axl letter detailing his uncensored thoughts on Slash

099. January 2008 Axl email about which songs should be on second album

100. "The Honor of Thieves 2" - Axl book about the break-up of GNR

101. December 2010 Doc email about Tommy refusing to play in Abu Dhabi

 

Edited by Gordon Comstock
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4 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

Here's the list of documents, Axl apparently tried to dissolve GNR in December 2009 and June 2010 (says MSL)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

List of 101 internal GNR documents:

001. Sheng Tang Music Festival PDF

002. DJ Ashba's contract

003. June 2010 Axl email dissolving GNR

004. December 2009 Axl email dissolving GNR

005. Doc's 2011 plan powerpoint

006. Better_Gone.mp3

007. January 2010 Caram Castanzo email about bonus tracks

008. November 2010 Axl email bitching about Bumblefoot

009. January 2011 email about cutting everyone's pay (part 1)

010. January 2011 email about cutting everyone's pay (part 2)

011. Chinese Democracy band member payments and recoupment

012. Chinese Democracy band producer charts

013. January 2010 Axl email complaining about Dr. Dre

014. October 2009 Axl email to Bumblefoot about Duff rejoining

015. December 2009 Brain email submitting Better remix to Fernando

016. Better video treatment v1

017. Chinese Democracy World Tour Income & Expenses

018. 2009 Band Rehearsal Expenses

019. Tour Income & Expense Summary Production rehearsals (11/09)

020. Chinese Democracy video treatmeant

021. 2010 Europe Leg #2 Budget Summary

022. Geffen Records contract for Second Album (January 2007)

023. Street of Dreams video treatment

024. January 2009 email discussing possible replacements for Robin

025. January 2010 email discussing new versions of Knockin' on Heaven's Door

026. January 2011 Caram Castanzo email complaining about back pay

027. July 2010 email outlining 2011 tour plans, including co-headliners

028. Better video treatment v2

029. June 2010 Caram Castanzo email about bonus tracks & second album

030. Robin Finck Resignation Letter (part 1)

031. Robin Finck Resignation Letter (part 2)

032. Robin Finck Resignation Letter (part 3)

033. July 2008 Axl letter to Robin about leaks

034. September 2008 Axl email about Slash, reunion, old members, etc. (part 1)

035. September 2008 Axl email about Slash, reunion, old members, etc. (part 2)

036. September 2008 Axl email about Slash, reunion, old members, etc. (part 3)

037. September 2008 Axl email about Slash, reunion, old members, etc. (part 4)

038. September 2008 Axl email about Slash, reunion, old members, etc. (part 5)

039. September 2008 Axl email about Slash, reunion, old members, etc. (part 6)

040. September 2008 Axl email about Slash, reunion, old members, etc. (part 7)

041. September 2008 Axl email about Slash, reunion, old members, etc. (part 8)

042. September 2008 Axl email about Slash, reunion, old members, etc. (part 9)

043. September 2008 Axl email about Slash, reunion, old members, etc. (part 10)

044. September 2008 Axl email about Slash, reunion, old members, etc. (part 11)

045. September 2008 Axl email about Slash, reunion, old members, etc. (part 12)

046. September 2008 Axl email about Slash, reunion, old members, etc. (part 13)

047. January 2008 Shanghai and Beijing festival offers

048. January 2008 Axl email about how many albums to release (part 1)

049. January 2008 Axl email about how many albums to release (part 2)

050. February 2007 lawsuit threat from fan hit with mic (part 1)

051. February 2007 lawsuit threat from fan hit with mic (part 2)

052. December 2006 letter threatening to sue Zakk Wylde

053. December 2005 Slash email threatening photographer

054. April 2006 Axl Rose tour rider

055. November 2009 Axl Rose letter to Irving Azoff about Beta, reunion, etc (part 1)

056. November 2009 Axl Rose letter to Irving Azoff about Beta, reunion, etc (part 2)

057. November 2009 Axl Rose letter to Irving Azoff about Beta, reunion, etc (part 3)

058. November 2009 Axl Rose letter to Irving Azoff about Beta, reunion, etc (part 4)

059. November 2009 Axl Rose letter to Irving Azoff about Beta, reunion, etc (part 5)

060. November 2009 Axl Rose letter to Irving Azoff about Beta, reunion, etc (part 6)

061. November 2009 Axl Rose letter to Irving Azoff about Beta, reunion, etc (part 7)

062. November 2009 Axl Rose letter to Irving Azoff about Beta, reunion, etc (part 8)

063. June 2008 Beta letter about who deserves credit for Sweet Child O' Mine (part 1)

064. June 2008 Beta letter about who deserves credit for Sweet Child O' Mine (part 2)

065. June 2008 Brain email about which producers deserve credit

066. June 2008 Axl email complaining about Tommy siding with Roy over Caram

067. June 2008 Dizzy email about which producers deserve credit (part 1)

068. June 2008 Dizzy email about which producers deserve credit (part 2)

069. June 2008 Dizzy email about which producers deserve credit (part 3)

070. January 2008 Fernando email listing Axl enemies / Slash allies

071. January 2008 Sebastian Bach email about entering rehab

072. February 2010 Axl email making NY plans

073. October 2004 Beta email to Merck about how to trick Axl, Slash lawsuit, etc (part 1)

074. October 2004 Beta email to Merck about how to trick Axl, Slash lawsuit, etc (part 2)

075. October 2009 Axl email about Duff wanting back in and people wanting Tommy out (part 1)

076. October 2009 Axl email about Duff wanting back in and people wanting Tommy out (part 2)

077. October 2009 Axl email about Duff wanting back in and people wanting Tommy out (part 3)

078. October 2009 Beta/Dizzy conversation about everyone wanting Tommy out

079. December 2008 Axl letter about why he's always late (part 1)

080. December 2008 Axl letter about why he's always late (part 2)

081. December 2008 Axl letter about why he's always late (part 3)

082. February 2007 Unpaid studio and producer invoices

083. March 2009 email outlining the tour dates with Van Halen

084. March 2006 Band and crew rehearsal payroll

085. August 2009 Dizzy email begging for update from Beta

086. February 2010 Financial guarantees for each European festival in May (part 1)

087. February 2010 Financial guarantees for each European festival in May (part 2)

088. May 2010 unpublished Axl tweet giving his side of the story re: Azoff (part 1)

089. May 2010 unpublished Axl tweet giving his side of the story re: Azoff (part 2)

090. May 2010 unpublished Axl tweet giving his side of the story re: Azoff (part 3)

091. April 2010 Income and Expense summaries Asia/Canada/South America (part 1)

092. April 2010 Income and Expense summaries Asia/Canada/South America (part 2)

093. April 2010 Income and Expense summaries Asia/Canada/South America (part 3)

094. April 2010 DJ Ashba email to Doc about Axl wanting to fire DJ

095. April 2010 Axl email dissolving GNR and insisting DJ Ashba be sued

096. January 2008 Axl letter about his feelings on Velvet Revolver (part 1)

097. January 2008 Axl letter about his feelings on Velvet Revolver (part 2)

098. January 2008 Axl letter detailing his uncensored thoughts on Slash

099. January 2008 Axl email about which songs should be on second album

100. "The Honor of Thieves 2" - Axl book about the break-up of GNR

101. December 2010 Doc email about Tommy refusing to play in Abu Dhabi

 

Thank you for linking this. 

 

Its always a good read. What a fucking insane lunatic. 

 

Must be drugged up on something.

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Quote

025. January 2010 email discussing new versions of Knockin' on Heaven's Door

LOL. this alone just perfectly illustrates, how fucked up the whole thing was. even though I really loved the 2006/7 lineup, it's obvious that after everything failed in 2002/3 and Bucket left in 2004, the damage has been done and the patient was alive only thanks to life support machines. like, Chinese Zombie-Democracy. the stuff should really get out in, say, late 2002 or early 2003. 

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Is it 100% correct that gnr was in debt/trouble in recent years so had to keep touring? I know UYI had them losing money and net worth isn't always accurate. I have read up on all this by the way just want to double check in case someone knows what was really going on and not rumors.

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2 minutes ago, zombux said:

LOL. this alone just perfectly illustrates, how fucked up the whole thing was. even though I really loved the 2006/7 lineup, it's obvious that after everything failed in 2002/3 and Bucket left in 2004, the damage has been done and the patient was alive only thanks to life support machines. like, Chinese Zombie-Democracy. the stuff should really get out in, say, late 2002 or early 2003. 

I've always wondered if that meant: a new version to play live, which would make sense because each line-up had played a different version of the song, or a new recording for the remix album or bonus track on something, which would also make sense because it's so fucked up ABSURD!

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6 minutes ago, angriestwhopper said:

As if on his email to do list he was actually seriously concerned about the better gone remix.

This is a guy who, as far as we know, still tinkers with Silkworms and Riff #3729. Better Gone wasn't even the worst of the remixes. Nothing really surprises me anymore. I'm more curious about his complaints about Dr. Dre :lol:

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7 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

This is a guy who, as far as we know, still tinkers with Silkworms and Riff #3729. Better Gone wasn't even the worst of the remixes. Nothing really surprises me anymore. I'm more curious about his complaints about Dr. Dre :lol:

The list legit?

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8 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

This is a guy who, as far as we know, still tinkers with Silkworms and Riff #3729. Better Gone wasn't even the worst of the remixes. Nothing really surprises me anymore. I'm more curious about his complaints about Dr. Dre :lol:

I know that Chris has worked with Dr. Dre back in 1994. Maybe Axl wanted to work with him too and the collaboration failed for different reasons.

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9 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

This is a guy who, as far as we know, still tinkers with Silkworms and Riff #3729. Better Gone wasn't even the worst of the remixes. Nothing really surprises me anymore. I'm more curious about his complaints about Dr. Dre :lol:

why are we even on this forum and knowing this information.

 

Are we nutz

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Just now, MrMojo said:

The list legit?

Who knows? Some of the stuff on there is definitely legit, like Better Gone and the Better video, so considering some of the other stuff MSL has/had, it's possible.

2 minutes ago, angriestwhopper said:

why are we even on this forum and knowing this information.

 

Are we nutz

We are crazy people here to talk about crazy things :lol:

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There was also Axl's 2010 tweet (later claimed to be a 'hack') which said the summer tour was cancelled. That seems to support the idea that something was certainly up behind the scenes that year.

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Part of me wishes Axl would have dissolved GNR after 2002 failed. Returned in 04 as a solo artist and mellowed out a bit working on an acoustic record and touring small venues for five years. Then do a grand return to GNR in 2009-2010. 

Thats kinda my personal hindsight simply because I’d liked to have more content from Axl Rose. He’s kinda the one that we haven’t gotten to see the talent meet the potential. He’s had an insanely great career but for what could have been and what has been it’s a bit of a disappointment. I think Axl alluded to this in that interview from 2006 on radio. 

The whole thing could have gone a million directions in the end

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