killuridols Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Blackstar said: It's a very old and common motif in all forms of art though, partly because it's more powerful. The depiction of punishment by law in a painting (like, say, a cop arresting the robot) wouldn't have a powerful effect. Probably it would have worked better if the rapist robot was destroyed by an "army" of women or female robots instead of a knight like (or archangel like) monster-avenger. But it would still be "more violence", wouldn't it? Truth is we don't see anyone receiving punishment for the rape.... it is something we assume it is going to happen, because the author explained his intentions, but the whole scene is paused before it happens. I don't know if that solution would have worked better. In my view, rape is too much of a serious issue, to be trivialized in such a comic-style painting. That's why none of those explanations make sense to me, and that's why I can only focus on the raped woman, while the robot and the monster turn almost invisiible when I look at it. All in all, I can deal with William's original excuse to a certain extent. But with this new "anti-rape" label, I can't. Because I feel they are either taking all of us for idiots or adding a new element of mockery to a painting that is already treating rape from a male point of view, sexualizing the victim and using her disgrace to send a retrogressive message of "justice". Edited July 5, 2018 by killuridols 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tori72 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, killuridols said: I feel they are either taking all of us for idiots or adding a new element of mockery to a painting that is already treating rape from a male point of view, sexualizing the victim and using her disgrace to send a retrogressive message of "justice". This. There’s art and artist, time and place and maybe that creates an art historic impact or not. Maybe the cartoon style is unique, maybe the way of applying paint was new at the time, maybe the mash up of ugly and „sexy“ (male perspective but whatever) was something - maybe not. It feels useless to me, most of the times, to be wanting to discuss art because art is complex and most discussions are not. Sorry, I realize that sounds terribly rude... To some a piece of art might be everything and yet it doesn’t speak to others. There are reasons for that, for sure. Great old masters are terribly sexist, oftenly, but it doesn’t minor the impact of their work because you always have to consider the time and place, philosophy and so many other things when regarding and „judging“ a piece of art. With this AFD album art I’m not interested in the cartoon style, the painting or how the craft has been done because I’m not interested in this style. What I see is the message and I see a lot of broken „arguments“ (for lack of a better word) that don’t work out, logically. Those explanations of the artist (forgot his name and Axl) I read a while ago and can’t remember right now, to be honest, never convinced me a bit. Haven’t decided yet if they were just too dumb to speak coherent or if they were trying to bullshit their way around enjoying misogyny and trying to defend the offending stuff they put up but don’t really care about. Edited July 5, 2018 by Tori72 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, Tori72 said: Haven’t decided yet if the artist and Axl were just too dumb to speak coherent or if they were trying to bullshit their way around enjoying misogyny and trying to defend the offending stuff they put up but don’t really care about. After reading many of the things said by both Axl and Williams, I've come to the conclusion that Axl is terribly ignorant and lives in a bubble where absolutely nothing disturbs him and he doesn't question anything of what he's done to women or what others do to women. When you read what he has to say about this painting, about UTLH, about OIAM.... he's always excusing all of it with shit that it is either fucked up or makes no sense at all. On the other hand, Williams admits everything he's been accused of. He knew this painting was not suitable for the masses and he warned the band about it. So, that puts Williams in a "better" (for lack of a correct word) place in my view, since at least this guy sounds coherent with what he does and says. This is why I call GN'R and UMG hypocrites. They should just admit who they are and always were, instead of coming up with this pathetic leaflet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tori72 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, killuridols said: This is why I call GN'R and UMG hypocrites. They should just admit who they are and always were, instead of coming up with this pathetic leaflet. Who is UMG? And maybe they don’t know any better. Seriously. I can’t believe a person who’s been called very intelligent to be making statements like Axl did about OIAM. They just don’t make sense and there speaks someone who hasn’t thought his thoughts to the end. But let’s not derail this thread with OIAM discussions. lol The cross has become so iconic and impactful for the band for a reason. It represents the band, it is badass and also somewhat funny. It’s comprehensible with a view glances and works like a very well done logo. (The GnR logos were always overdone, in my opinion. Too many smashing colours, to much going on... Also derailing. Sorry ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tori72 said: Who is UMG? And maybe they don’t know any better. Seriously. I can’t believe a person who’s been called very intelligent to be making statements like Axl did about OIAM. They just don’t make sense and there speaks someone who hasn’t thought his thoughts to the end. But let’s not derail this thread with OIAM discussions. lol The cross has become so iconic and impactful for the band for a reason. It represents the band, it is badass and also somewhat funny. It’s comprehensible with a view glances and works like a very well done logo. (The GnR logos were always overdone, in my opinion. Too many smashing colours, to much going on... Also derailing. Sorry ) UMG = Universal Music Group........ the people behind the AFD re-release, box set, etc. I am not derailing when I mention OIAM, I was just using it as another example of Axl defending his fucked up shit with flawed logic. The cross is awesome because it represents the original lineup and the only ones capable of making AFD possible, not the Olei Beiches, the Gardners and the Webers Should have gone with that from the beginning and ditch the whole rape stuff. 30 years laters, they're still singing the same tune(s) (no sarcasm) Edited July 5, 2018 by killuridols Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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