Chester 524 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 4 hours ago, PrimosPeppers said: I'll look at a few current models.... Currently I have an older Sony STR-DN1050 for my DVD, TV, CD, LP..... Now, these digital units will never sound like the old Realistic decks and such used back in the day, but they are convenient. Also, they have a USB input on the front and you can hook up a hard drive to play your hi-res audio files. I use it to play my needle drops of rare vinyl pressings pro sampled into 24/192. As close as you can get to playing the real album. Yet, it's a compromise being able to watch tv through the new units, play cd's, etc... So, if and when you decide to pick up an old Technics SL-1200 player (I have one and they are a workhorse), you can do like I did and buy a Bugle preamp. They are inexpensive and rival thousands of dollar units. Warms up your sound big time! I also bought a pair of super clean vintage JBL-L100 speakers (reissued this year for $4000 - got mine for $250) Anyway, sorry for rambling..... Look for some used JBL L100's in great shape and you can't go wrong man. My wife uncle spent thousands on new speakers and these blew this away. I'll research the new decks, but the Sony STR is good. https://www.haglabs.com/collections/phono-preamps/products/bugle3-phono-preamp-mm-mc Cool man.... I didn't know they were being offered outside the big box yet. Thanks. thank you your input is very helpful 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimosPeppers Posted July 3, 2018 Author Share Posted July 3, 2018 14 hours ago, Jw224 said: It sounds pretty similar but not necessarily better just a bit different in some areas when compared to the original master. I'd pretty much just be repeating what others have said but I don't think it sounds bad at all. All things considered I'd say it could have been worse haha. I definitely notice a difference in the guitar mix which is probably due to different EQ but maybe that's just me. Dynamics is something I'm all for so it's a shame they've been reduced here. Totally agree with you man. Could have been way worse with the crunch. The compression and multi band eq brought the guitars up some.... I can post all the songs before and after if anyone wants to see em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevolverBobcat Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 1 hour ago, PrimosPeppers said: I can post all the songs before and after if anyone wants to see em. You mean original cd (above) vs. remastered cd (below)? Yes, please. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimosPeppers Posted July 3, 2018 Author Share Posted July 3, 2018 3 hours ago, RevolverBobcat said: You mean original cd (above) vs. remastered cd (below)? Yes, please. Yes, that is correct. 1st is original cd and the second is remastered cd. I'll post em..... Not too bad. I mean maybe this is a happy compromise.... Stay tuned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimosPeppers Posted July 3, 2018 Author Share Posted July 3, 2018 Ok....for each song, the fist picture is the original Barry Diament 1987 CD master and the second picture is the new 2018 CD master... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombux Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 huh, that's ugly. DR LoudnessWar has some numbers, too http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=Guns N' Roses 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimosPeppers Posted July 3, 2018 Author Share Posted July 3, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, zombux said: huh, that's ugly. DR LoudnessWar has some numbers, too http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=Guns N' Roses Man, you read my mind.... I was going to check that site and see if they had posted the numbers yet. Thanks. I'm glad my ears weren't deceiving me. What most people react to initially is the louder volume.....at first it appears better, cleaner, crisper.......then you develop ear fatigue pretty easy. yes, it could have been worse (it's not brick walled), but trust me, it could have been way better. Looks like the 24/192 files were given the same treatment as the regular cd's.... http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/149742 Edited July 3, 2018 by PrimosPeppers 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombux Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 6 minutes ago, PrimosPeppers said: Man, you read my mind.... it seems I've become quite good in that, LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jw224 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 (edited) A DR of nine isn't that bad, although the DR number isn't always an indicator of actual sound. I was expecting this set to be worse tbh but I agree it could have been better. I also don't understand why they allow DR numbers from vinyl on there as the meter can't read them accurately. Edited July 3, 2018 by Jw224 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRMSlash Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Overall, I think it's a decent remaster. The bass is more present, but not bloated like the Greatest Hits CD. The bass improvements are the highlight for me. Depending on the song, the treble of the cymbals are a bit clearer, which is appreciated. The biggest let down for me is the compression &/or EQ'ing of the guitars into a more generic sound. The guitars have lost their characteristic raw, energetic grind & crunch. The vocals also seem a touch more compressed, but it's not too noticeable unless quickly switching between versions. I also noticed the drum snare, toms & cowbell are compressed/EQ'd and lost some of their character and ambience. On a more technical note, I've scanned the remastered album with foobar2000's ReplayGain scanner set with True Peak 4x oversampling. The result was an Album Gain of -8.82dB & Album Peak of 1.017029. My original copy has -5.38dB & 1.038265. So the remaster looks to have around a 3.4dB boost. I think for a modern mastering, it's decent in that it's not offensively crushed or EQ'd. But I feel the album has had it's character sterilised into a more generic sound compared to the original. I really enjoy the bass improvements in the remaster, so it's hard for me to decide, but I think I'll have to stick with the original. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkarmy Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 I gave the remaster a listen in my car. I thought it sounded great. I didn't compare the original to the remaster but I hear something in the remaster I never noticed before like percussion in Mr. Brownstone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimosPeppers Posted July 3, 2018 Author Share Posted July 3, 2018 3 hours ago, zombux said: it seems I've become quite good in that, LOL haaaaaaaaaaaaaa Yep! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimosPeppers Posted July 3, 2018 Author Share Posted July 3, 2018 2 hours ago, Jw224 said: A DR of nine isn't that bad, although the DR number isn't always an indicator of actual sound. I was expecting this set to be worse tbh but I agree it could have been better. I also don't understand why they allow DR numbers from vinyl on there as the meter can't read them accurately. Dah not too bad... Hell, I'm not sure if I wrote it on here, but one of my favorite bands is QOTSA, and they ultra captain crunch the hell out of all their stuff. lol Good thing for them, most of all their music is very bass heavy, so the consequences of crunch / ear fatigue are not as bad. Anyway, yeah.....it looks like some of the numbers were pulled from need drops too. So, that's all contingent on the sampling device, the gear, recording gain, etc... I will say it's cut hotter than most of the LP's I have. How many DB, that I won't guess. lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimosPeppers Posted July 3, 2018 Author Share Posted July 3, 2018 21 minutes ago, BRMSlash said: Overall, I think it's a decent remaster. The bass is more present, but not bloated like the Greatest Hits CD. The bass improvements are the highlight for me. Depending on the song, the treble of the cymbals are a bit clearer, which is appreciated. The biggest let down for me is the compression &/or EQ'ing of the guitars into a more generic sound. The guitars have lost their characteristic raw, energetic grind & crunch. The vocals also seem a touch more compressed, but it's not too noticeable unless quickly switching between versions. I also noticed the drum snare, toms & cowbell are compressed/EQ'd and lost some of their character and ambience. On a more technical note, I've scanned the remastered album with foobar2000's ReplayGain scanner set with True Peak 4x oversampling. The result was an Album Gain of -8.82dB & Album Peak of 1.017029. My original copy has -5.38dB & 1.038265. So the remaster looks to have around a 3.4dB boost. I think for a modern mastering, it's decent in that it's not offensively crushed or EQ'd. But I feel the album has had it's character sterilised into a more generic sound compared to the original. I really enjoy the bass improvements in the remaster, so it's hard for me to decide, but I think I'll have to stick with the original. Great assessment man. I totally agree with the compression. That multi band compression / limiting It can bring things to the front a bit, but then things can easily become 2 dimensional in general. The mix loses some of the depth of field, life, and room warmth. I was thinking generally about -3db too.... You nailed it with these worlds, "modern mastering"; probably something partially done to keep up with all the other music on streaming services, satellite radio, etc... Man, couldn't agree more. The album is more impactive and in your face, but the character has suffered. I agree, I liked elements of the low end on the LP remaster. Yet, I know if you really want to hear some great low end on vinyl, dig out any of the European 1987-1988 12 inch 45 rpm singles by the band..... Killer sound. 26 minutes ago, tkarmy said: I gave the remaster a listen in my car. I thought it sounded great. I didn't compare the original to the remaster but I hear something in the remaster I never noticed before like percussion in Mr. Brownstone Yeah I noticed the bongos came up a bit too....which was nice. Though in the original (believe Izzy played them), they are defiantly more up front now due to eq / compression. Later 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhazUp Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Listening to the remaster and doing an A/B volume matched with my headphones currently, I find that for sure the remaster is louder, but it is not overbearingly done like something such as the horrible Purple Rain remaster that came out last year where it was so un-dymanic and so compressed that the CD was just only useful as a drink coaster lol. I dig the low end on this remaster, and I do still hear plenty of dynamics, and I agree with a lot of the people here who mentioned the guitars sounding a tad more pronounced due to that bit of compression I am digging this remaster - even if it isn't a HUGE massive improvement over the Barry Diament master. Which is good because this way we get two different but very awesome mastering jobs to enjoy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussTCB Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 On 7/4/2018 at 9:30 PM, WhazUp said: Listening to the remaster and doing an A/B volume matched with my headphones currently, I find that for sure the remaster is louder, but it is not overbearingly done like something such as the horrible Purple Rain remaster that came out last year where it was so un-dymanic and so compressed that the CD was just only useful as a drink coaster lol. I dig the low end on this remaster, and I do still hear plenty of dynamics, and I agree with a lot of the people here who mentioned the guitars sounding a tad more pronounced due to that bit of compression I am digging this remaster - even if it isn't a HUGE massive improvement over the Barry Diament master. Which is good because this way we get two different but very awesome mastering jobs to enjoy The more I hear it there more it's a thing where it's different enough that I'll just listen to whatever is available lol. For example, if someone went to my record bins and came back with either the original or the remaster, I'd be fine with either. If I were to search Spotify Jungle, I'd just play whichever version comes up first without caring either way. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimosPeppers Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 16 hours ago, RussTCB said: The more I hear it there more it's a thing where it's different enough that I'll just listen to whatever is available lol. For example, if someone went to my record bins and came back with either the original or the remaster, I'd be fine with either. If I were to search Spotify Jungle, I'd just play whichever version comes up first without caring either way. I hear ya man..... I hate looking for the right vinyl pressing / copy or the right resolution file that will play on this or that device.... I usually go for whats near and easy. I run to a 24/96 needle drop vinyl file of a german 1st pressing of Appetite. Why? It's been on my phone for forever and this particular file really brings me back to my old high school stereo....spinning albums with headphones on, flipping through the metal mags, and dreaming!! lol Take care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mRONZ Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 The big problem is that on usb key (the cross) inside the limited box locked and loaded there is a folder named "appetite for destrucion 192 khz 24 bit"but when i play the files the codec mismatch is 192 khz 16 bit ok not a big difference of quality but for the price i want the correct files not different…(it's curios on folder named d4 appeteite etc...the files are 24 bit correctly !!!!) Does anyone have the same problem ? Can you check wit your files ? Tks from Italy sorry for my english... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombux Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 19 minutes ago, mRONZ said: The big problem is that on usb key (the cross) inside the limited box locked and loaded there is a folder named "appetite for destrucion 192 khz 24 bit"but when i play the files the codec mismatch is 192 khz 16 bit ok not a big difference of quality but for the price i want the correct files not different…(it's curios on folder named d4 appeteite etc...the files are 24 bit correctly !!!!) Does anyone have the same problem ? Can you check wit your files ? Tks from Italy sorry for my english... this is not the problem of the USB, but your computer configuration. either you really have some codecs mismatch, or your audio hardware can't play 24bit audio, or a thousand of other reasons. I'd probably check if your system setup is switched to 24bit and then use some different audio player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mRONZ Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Thanks i don't know how can explain it's not a problem of my pc or codec the files are different for example Nightrain is 192khz 16bit 6.1 Mbs (on folder D1 Appetite for destrucion 192khz 24bit) on the other folder (D4 Appetite for destruction sound city session 192khz 24bit) mama kin is 192 khz24bit 9.1Mbs !So on one folder the file is 16bit instead of 24bit..... Please if you have the appetite locked and load limited edition check the cross usb key Thanks for help Spoiler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRMSlash Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Hey everyone. I discovered something interesting over the weekend. I watched the music videos on the bluray and found the sound quailty much improved over the audio album on the same disc (at least listening to the 5.1 DTS audio). The mix is the same, so has the guitar errors in Patience and quiet outro solo in Paradise City, but the sound quality and dynamics are there and has a professional studio sound. If only the actual audio remaster was the same, I'd be in heaven. The album master is destroyed so much in comparison. I don't know why record labels seem to want to reduce sound quality so much these days, particularly when they are promoting hi-end formats like 96k 24bit etc. I mean Blu-ray's are pretty much only played back in a quiet home environment and more often than not through a home theatre system, so why compress and eq them to sound worse? I can understand mastering louder for a portable format such as a phone, mp3 player or car, but there just isn't any need to do the same for Blu-ray. Considering how much they're charging for these re-masters, the cost of optimizing the mastering for each format would be insignificant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jw224 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 11 hours ago, BRMSlash said: Hey everyone. I discovered something interesting over the weekend. I watched the music videos on the bluray and found the sound quailty much improved over the audio album on the same disc (at least listening to the 5.1 DTS audio). The mix is the same, so has the guitar errors in Patience and quiet outro solo in Paradise City, but the sound quality and dynamics are there and has a professional studio sound. If only the actual audio remaster was the same, I'd be in heaven. The album master is destroyed so much in comparison. I don't know why record labels seem to want to reduce sound quality so much these days, particularly when they are promoting hi-end formats like 96k 24bit etc. I mean Blu-ray's are pretty much only played back in a quiet home environment and more often than not through a home theatre system, so why compress and eq them to sound worse? I can understand mastering louder for a portable format such as a phone, mp3 player or car, but there just isn't any need to do the same for Blu-ray. Considering how much they're charging for these re-masters, the cost of optimizing the mastering for each format would be insignificant. It's the cool thing to make audio louder. I still see people claiming they do it for radio even though radio has its own compression algorithms that adjust the volume of audio. So really they're just compressing stuff twice and the louder master ends up more quiet on the radio than a dynamic one lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mini Mite Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 (edited) I don't know if this has been asked.. but what about the songs from Lies?? How does the remaster sound?? Has the sound quality been improved?? I'm not an expert, but IMO it sounds better, especially in the "live" songs.. Edited August 6, 2018 by Mr Mini Mite bad english!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNRfan2008 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 So it sounds like the verdict is don't spend the money on the remastered versions? Seems the original version was pretty phenomenal by audiophile standards, created before the loudness war began. Speaking of which, I finally got my hands on the rough mixes of Californication. Pretty sad that the CD sounds a million times worse than the rough mix. Thank goodness Appetite was created and released before all the BS started during the 90's and early 2000's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvH Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 (edited) The original CD masters of Appetite and Lies are as good as it gets. Barry Diament was the best mastering engineer in the 80s. This remaster is notably compressed -not brickwalled, but you lose a fairly bit of dynamics. For the Illusions, the MFSLs are a bit better than the standard CDs. Edited March 24, 2019 by EvH 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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