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How bad did the CD tour do?


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1 hour ago, themadcaplaughs said:

DJ really was a curious case. The guy actually seemed to get worse at guitar as he progressed in the band. During 2009/2010, he seemed tolerable. He seemed a bit like a caricature, but still dressed like a normal human being and did a "good" to "very good" job with all of his guitar work. He struggled with some of Robin's solos, but Robin struggled with some of Slash's solos. I still think, at the very least, DJ captured the "essence" of Slash's solos more consistently than Robin did (with the notable exception of DJ's "Patience" solo). Robin's takes on Slash's work either impressed the hell out of me, or made me want to turn away; no real middle ground. By the end of 2010, I saw DJ as being well on his way to being a suitable replacement for Robin. 

When he came back in 2011, however, it seemed like the worst aspects of him got turned up to 11. He dressed like a walking billboard and seemed more interested in showboating and running around than playing, which in turn, got him to make some fairly sloppy mistakes consistently. Even at the height of his on-stage douchiness, I never truly "hated" the guy. To his credit, he was obviously a Guns N' Roses fan and enjoyed being in the group, always seemed to be really nice to fans, and certainly worked harder than any other members of the band from 2001-2014 to actually promote GN'R and stay in communication with fans. Hell, if his role in the band had been more akin to Richard's (rhythm guitarist with scattered leads and solos) and Richard had been bumped up to lead guitarist with Bumblefoot, I probably would not have had any issues with him. His problem, ultimately, was that he was a "very good" guitarist with little identity playing in a band that required guitarists to be either (or preferably be both) "excellent" at the instrument or at least creative individuals. DJ was really neither. 

Also, in all fairness to DJ, we never really did get to see what he may have contributed to Guns N' Roses. From 2001 until he left the band, I thought Robin was a cool dude, but not particularly suited for Guns N' Roses. His playing on Chinese Democracy, however, were some of the most inspired spots on the album, and it made me appreciate why Axl probably hired Robin in the first place. 

I agree with you.

I thought DJ joining Guns was a good thing when I saw how Axl seemed to enjoy his too.

By 2013 though I was done with him. At the Toronto club gig that year, he was making out with his wife in front of the stage while one of the other guys had a solo spot. I felt ontop of his decreasing abilities on guitar, this was fucking cringe.

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I saw them in Dallas at Gexa Energy Pavillion in 2011 and supposedly it was sold out, 13 or 14,000 I believe. I remember following the show thread on HTGTH and they said it was the first sellout of the tour. (Granted it was the first time “GNR” had played Dallas since the Illusion days, so there was plenty of demand I guess)

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17 hours ago, Willis1988 said:

I saw them in Dallas at Gexa Energy Pavillion in 2011 and supposedly it was sold out, 13 or 14,000 I believe. I remember following the show thread on HTGTH and they said it was the first sellout of the tour. (Granted it was the first time “GNR” had played Dallas since the Illusion days, so there was plenty of demand I guess)

Why is everyone knocking DJ’s guitar playing? His role was to add his thing to the work of Slash, Robin & Bucket as well as be a showman. Met him in 2012 and he seemed nice. Ron was the nicest followed by Frank. I admit that DJ’s wife made some stupid remarks but Ron and Ashba shouldered the lead guitar very well IMO. That said Bucket & Robin was magic but the return of Slash was the real miracle. Have seen GNR 18 times since 2002. Have been a GNR fan since 1988 and looking at the nature of the band members cannot imagine things having gone any other way than it has. I’m a big fan of all the records, but mostly the Appetite, Illusions & CD. My 4 favourite gigs Pukelpop 2002, Wemblely 06 night 1, Chicago 2011 & NYC 2016 night 1! Looking forward to my Appetite wooden box set when I get home next week. Peace out...

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I saw Axl live for the very first time in Camden in 2011. I remember leaving the show very disappointed. It was Axl and a bunch of session players. And the worst part for me is that Axl left the stage for what seems like half of the show. Between wardrobe changes and then a bumblefoot solo, a DJ Solo, dizzy solo, pretty sure the guy selling cotton candy got a solo in there somewhere. As much as I wanted to love the first show, I left having no desire to see Axl and this incarnation of "GNR" live again.  The show felt more like it was a concert of session players with sporadic appearances by Axl.   I felt that it wasn't worth me giving me up my hard-earned money for another show like that. I've been a GNR fan for 25 years I saw Velvet Revolver four times, Slash a whole bunch of times on his own and so for me to not want to see Axl anymore is saying something. I just felt the show wasn't good. And I would imagine that many people that went to these shows felt the same way which is why the crowds got smaller and smaller

 

But then the reunion happened and I ended up going to three  shows and absolutely loved every single one of them. sold out crowds, better atmosphere, on time, etc 

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21 hours ago, Willis1988 said:

I saw them in Dallas at Gexa Energy Pavillion in 2011 and supposedly it was sold out, 13 or 14,000 I believe. I remember following the show thread on HTGTH and they said it was the first sellout of the tour. (Granted it was the first time “GNR” had played Dallas since the Illusion days, so there was plenty of demand I guess)

I was there also and it was packed and the crowd was strong.

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The 2002 Philly no show was sold out or close to it.   Trying to dodge close to 20k people throwing chairs and bottles was insane getting out of there.  :lol:

The 2011 show in Camden was either sold out or very close to it...loud crowd as well.  So for the 2 shows I attended, they seemed to be doing just fine.  Of course, it's nothing compared to the stadium shows that they are doing now....but I think most of the Chinese Democracy tour up until 2012 seemed to pay the bills for them.

 

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You can sort of tell the demand changing from the venue choices in Melbourne

1993 (UYI): 75,000+ People 

2006 (Robin Era): 32,000 People (2 nights of 16k each)

2010 (Dj Era) : Didn't come to Melbourne but played an 11,000 People show in Closest City and a special event car race in next closest city. 

2013 (Dj Era) : 20,000 People (2 Nights of 10k each)

2016 (Reunion Era) : 74,000 People

 

So my take away is:

1. Even at the peak of the "Nu-GNR" band demand for them was less than half of the old band. Makes sense when you consider it's only one original member.

2. Demand for the "Nu-GNR" was diminishing as time went on. This also makes sense to me considering there was only 1 album (not promoted) in that whole time and the show didn't really evolve much across 3 tours.

3. Peak reunion demand was nearly identical to UYI demand. This makes sense as the media here heavily promoted this as the return of GNR since the UYI days and the audience was full of casuals either reliving the UYI shows or people who just missed out in the 1990s for whatever reason. A lot of people were at the right age here that the UYI show was in their glory days and now they don't really go out much but could afford to spring for a good spot for this as a one off. Also a reasonable amount of younger people who had never seen the 'real' GNR, and people who sort of had Axl/Slash on a bucket list. Would be interesting to see how a second leg would go - my prediction is it would still sell well because this is a rock city and people love GNR here BUT that it would be a lot more modest in general because the reunion show was kinda pimped by the media here as a "first time in 23 years".

 

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1 hour ago, Kasanova King said:

The 2002 Philly no show was sold out or close to it.   Trying to dodge close to 20k people throwing chairs and bottles was insane getting out of there.  :lol:

The 2011 show in Camden was either sold out or very close to it...loud crowd as well.  So for the 2 shows I attended, they seemed to be doing just fine.  Of course, it's nothing compared to the stadium shows that they are doing now....but I think most of the Chinese Democracy tour up until 2012 seemed to pay the bills for them.

 

Camdem was close to 60% full. Far away from  sold out.

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4 hours ago, Kasanova King said:

It wasn't the summer so the outside section was closed.  Inside capacity was 6500 and it was sold out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Democracy_Tour

Yep. I was inside, and it was packed to the gills. Great show too, probably best I saw in 2011, above Wilkes Barre and East Rutherford. 

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5 hours ago, Chunder Monkey said:

1. Even at the peak of the "Nu-GNR" band demand for them was less than half of the old band. Makes sense when you consider it's only one original member.

2. Demand for the "Nu-GNR" was diminishing as time went on. This also makes sense to me considering there was only 1 album (not promoted) in that whole time and the show didn't really evolve much across 3 tours.

3. Peak reunion demand was nearly identical to UYI demand. This makes sense as the media here heavily promoted this as the return of GNR since the UYI days and the audience was full of casuals either reliving the UYI shows or people who just missed out in the 1990s for whatever reason. A lot of people were at the right age here that the UYI show was in their glory days and now they don't really go out much but could afford to spring for a good spot for this as a one off. Also a reasonable amount of younger people who had never seen the 'real' GNR, and people who sort of had Axl/Slash on a bucket list. Would be interesting to see how a second leg would go - my prediction is it would still sell well because this is a rock city and people love GNR here BUT that it would be a lot more modest in general because the reunion show was kinda pimped by the media here as a "first time in 23 years".

it all makes sense also because the media never forgot to emphasize that "dis not real GNR dude, dis Axel solo band man, as a newzpaper writa I nevah herd or seen it but for sho it sukz".

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12 hours ago, Chunder Monkey said:

2. Demand for the "Nu-GNR" was diminishing as time went on. This also makes sense to me considering there was only 1 album (not promoted) in that whole time and the show didn't really evolve much across 3 tours.

See below.

7 hours ago, zombux said:

it all makes sense also because the media never forgot to emphasize that "dis not real GNR dude, dis Axel solo band man, as a newzpaper writa I nevah herd or seen it but for sho it sukz".

These two points stick out to me: 

I firmly believe that if Axl had bothered to release even 1 more album that interest could've been elongated. That's a whole other can of worms though; IF he'd released the first album earlier, maybe Robin & Bucket wouldn't have left..... IF he'd even released a second album around 2012, maybe Ron & DJ wouldn't have left........etc etc. In any case, I believe there still could've been some success if he'd released another studio album around 2010-2014 with that lineup. 

Also, I noticed the press would always go out of their way to remind people that it wasn't the original band in their reviews. Even the most positive reviews I saw of show I went to would say something nice like "Show was great" but then qualify it with "..........not bad considering it's a bunch of replacement players" and so on. 

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2 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

I firmly believe that if Axl had bothered to release even 1 more album that interest could've been elongated. That's a whole other can of worms though; IF he'd released the first album earlier, maybe Robin & Bucket wouldn't have left..... IF he'd even released a second album around 2012, maybe Ron & DJ wouldn't have left........etc etc. In any case, I believe there still could've been some success if he'd released another studio album around 2010-2014 with that lineup. 

yes. the notorious inability of releasing more or less anything has just rendered the whole thing doomed and people just started leaving because they realised nothing is getting out.

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A related issue I think is that it kinda had an identity crisis. 

Like is it something new or not? 

If it's something new, then it's weird how little music was released and how few of their own songs they did. 

The 2001, 2002, 2006, 2007 shows all happened with no album. 4-5 new songs played. 2009 seemed a little brighter due to more CD inclusions in the set but it soon went back to basically an AFD tribute. 

Then if it's an AFD tribute - why is it so weird? Why is Axl dressing as a rapper not a rocker - why is he singing the songs differently?  Bumble and Bucket are phenomenal musicians but stylistically odd choices to replace Slash if you want to tribute old GNR. 

So it ends up in this twilight zone where it's not either thing. 

Like if you want Axl's vision, if you believe he is going to redefine what GNR is, you love the circus and you want to hear his industrial vision - then like you wait around for a decade or more and get only a handful of songs in a show to scratch your itch, you get one album in 22 years or whatever, and it's kinda frustrating. 

By contrast if you love what GNR was, then you get players that actively alter the songs to make them sound different and a bunch of genre bending stuff added to the music and look of the show, which is kinda frustrating.

I found something to like in every era. But I can see why this issue of identity added to the lack of releases issues really didn't help the project go mainstream. 

 

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The "New" band seemed to be at their best playing in smaller venues. Every show I saw in a smaller concert hall was much better than the larger venues. I guess you got more diehards and less "casual" fans who probably didn't even know Slash was no longer in the band. The crowds at MSG during that era - while large, just seemed pretty disenchanted.

The Crowds at the hammerstein shows were into it. 

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On 5.7.2018 at 5:11 PM, Endless2404 said:

I remember people saying back in the day how multiple legs of the tour (especially NA and SA) did very bad while others used to contradict it. How well did the whole tour do in general?

Geez. That tour lasted 10 years. So what do you mean? Overall, all things considered, it did quite well, with attendances softening off in the later years. No wonder, since there was no new music and the novelty wore off.

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On 7/7/2018 at 4:16 PM, Rusty69 said:

I was there also and it was packed and the crowd was strong.

I remember it being a good show and leaving very happy, but it kinda satisfied my desire to see Axl. I kinda lost track of GNR after that. Before my show I religiously read the boards, but afterwards I didn’t come here probably until the reunion rumors started up. I think it boiled down to Axl not being the powerhouse he was the year before, and the mystique of it all dying out when everyone realized there wouldn’t be new music. I never caught them again until the reunion, but it wasn’t because I wouldn’t want to, it’s because I never even knew they were in my area until after it happened.  

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