Appetite for Distortion Ep. 74 - "Leaker's Revenge"

[RussTCB]

50 minutes ago, Dean said:

Great listen guys.

I had no idea that people managed to get their hands on the HOB show so recently, I assumed people had been sat on it for years, as I've seen people say they've had it since 2002.

 

That was a revelation for me too. 

[Swedish]

Great episode as always!! 

@RussTCB needs to be on the AFD show more often, his perspective as a mod of this place ads a lot to the conversation imo!  

[Gibbo]

Good interview fellas well done 

 

[Blackstar]

14 hours ago, RussTCB said:

Fair points but again; communication is key. Why not at least inform your customer as to the how's & why's of things? A simple "We'd love to but...." would go a long way with the fans. Instead, we're left to wonder and make assumptions. 

Oh I completely agree.

A while ago I had posted an interview with Andrew Eldritch (from The Sisters Of Mercy), who I think is the closest comparison to Axl. It had taken him long to finish an album, he's the only original member of his band and hasn't released anything in decades, although he has new songs. It's not a big band like GnR, but it has loyal fans who go to the shows and would buy any new release in a heartbeat. But at least the guy has said bluntly that he doesn't want to release music and has provided a reasoning for that (and he has also played some of the unreleased songs live), so the fans just take it for what it is:

http://teamrock.com/feature/2016-11-13/sisters-of-mercy-i-wanted-to-sound-like-a-disco-run-by-the-borgias 

Maybe Axl thinks and feels similarly, especially since the release of CD (I see similar patterns in some of Eldritch's answers); but he's also been ambivalent about what he might want in the future (for example things may have changed now that he's back with Slash and Duff and they seem to have come to a point that they're really getting along - also the box set thing) so he just leaves us wondering.

Edited July 18, 2018 by Blackstar

[Coma16]

Very interesting episode. Sad that threats were made and I'd understand if @axlrosefan4life pressed charges (although i don't think it would be worth it personally). 

 

Lol the horder who got cucked into trading HOB for fake general ahahahaha (if it's true)

Edited July 17, 2018 by Coma16

[guitarpatch]

2 hours ago, RussTCB said:

I've been in marketing & sales my whole professional life. Absolutely nothing bothers me more than a customer trying to spend money and a business makes it hard for them. So while I was listening to Rick, I was getting more and more angry about that, because that's essentially what it is: GN'R is a business that refuses to sell product to it's customer, the fans. 

I've thought about the Universal aspect of that too but I truly don't think that's it. Years ago, when packaging and a major marketing campaign were needed for every release? Maybe. Not these days though. Some of the most talked about, listened to and most profitable releases in the past few years had little to no marketing and weren't even released physically until 6 months to a year later. 

To me, it's just that the GN'R camp either doesn't want to or doesn't have any idea how to do these things. 

 It's so funny but @downzy, the rest of the staff and I constantly get accused of being paid by the band to "be positive" about them or "censor negative opinions" about GN'R. I always point out that I'm one of the more outspoken people when the band does something (or many things) wrong to their fans. From now on, I'm just going to give people a link to this episode and the time stamp of where my "rant" is 

Fair points but again; communication is key. Why not at least inform your customer as to the how's & why's of things? A simple "We'd love to but...." would go a long way with the fans. Instead, we're left to wonder and make assumptions. 

Honest to God, your first point is why I backed up and made it clear that I didn't want to make light of @axlrosefan4life's situation. It has crossed my mind in the past that someone could eventually get hurt over this kind of stuff which is scary and awful. 

As for your second point, @Gambit83 said a couple of times that GN'R should hire me. I thought that was humorous just based on how many negative things I've said about the band HOWEVER, as I said before, I've been in marketing & sales my whole life. Honestly, I'd be MORE than happy to help GN'R out for free. The ideas I threw out there during this episode were just off the top of my head. If I had some time, I could come up with some more ideas that would make both the fans & the bean counters very happy. I kid you not, I would do it for absolutely free too. That's how much of a fan I am and how much I think the relationship between this band and it's fans needs repairing. 

I wouldn’t totally discredit the label situation. They have the rights to any release while under contract. It’s not as if GNR can decide to release and profit directly from any direct to fan vault subscription. Most of that revenue would go elsewhere

Without substantial changes to the old recording contract, GNR needs to be paid a substantial advance while the label recoups on its sales for each project. That number was most likely negotiated many times over by now and no future release was most likely thought to be setup as part as of a direct to fan subscription model. 

They would have to completely renegotiate the contract. The issue is why would GNR want that at this point? Maybe it makes more sense to finish out the current contract with new material, not resign, and go to a subscription model afterwards and profit more so? Maybe they are willing to work with Universal and do so if they can get a large amount of $ upfront? It all depends where they are on those numbers

I believe the band/label in the past has fought over the advance amount. GNR wanting more vs Universal not wanting lose $ on a future release. That would be reason enough to reject material so that they don’t have to pay that out or to hold onto material so that you can leverage $.

Obviously that situation has changed with Slash/Duff back in the fold. They are most likely are in position to renegotiate in their favor as of now if they want. This really is where management comes into play and what direction they want to take long term

[Coma16]

^^^ very good points. Also, Slash and Duff very likely blocked the HOB, and other releases, until A4D was finally agreed upon (and then Axl didn't want it released)

Edited July 17, 2018 by Coma16
Typo

[RussTCB]

4 minutes ago, guitarpatch said:

I wouldn’t totally discredit the label situation. They have the rights to any release while under contract. It’s not as if GNR can decide to release and profit directly from any direct to fan vault subscription. Most of that revenue would go elsewhere

Without substantial changes to the old recording contract, GNR needs to be paid a substantial advance while the label recoups on its sales for each project. That number was most likely negotiated many times over by now and no future release was most likely thought to be setup as part as of a direct to fan subscription model. 

They would have to completely renegotiate the contract. The issue is why would GNR want that at this point? Maybe it makes more sense to finish out the current contract with new material, not resign, and go to a subscription model afterwards and profit more so? Maybe they are willing to work with Universal and do so if they can get a large amount of $ upfront? It all depends where they are on those numbers

I believe the band/label in the past has fought over the advance amount. GNR wanting more vs Universal not wanting lose $ on a future release. That would be reason enough to reject material so that they don’t have to pay that out or to hold onto material so that you can leverage $.

Obviously that situation has changed with Slash/Duff back in the fold. They are most likely are in position to renegotiate in their favor as of now if they want. This really is where management comes into play and what direction they want to take long term

I get what you're saying but my point is there ARE solutions out there. Damn near anything would be a great alternative to over priced boxed sets and ridiculous airline tie ins 

From my experience of watching how GN'R is run, it's clear that no one seems to care about working out any details for something that might actually benefit the fans. 

[guitarpatch]

3 minutes ago, Coma16 said:

^^^ very good points. Also, Slash and Duff very likely blocked the HOB, and other releases, until A4D was finally agreed upon (and then Axl didn't want it released)

Most likely for any video synch release. They would have to sign off permission. Audio only they don’t need permission

 

3 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

I get what you're saying but my point is there ARE solutions out there. Damn near anything would be a great alternative to over priced boxed sets and ridiculous airline tie ins 

From my experience of watching how GN'R is run, it's clear that no one seems to care about working out any details for something that might actually benefit the fans. 

You’re talking about some pretty complex situations with the label that most artists don’t go through on a release front. It’s just not normal to compare without looking at bands who reworked an entire lineup while under a huge advance from the label.  

If you want to talk about shows, branding, and the general stance the band has taken on a fan relationship level that’s different. I’ve worked in music on a fan engagement level for years, and I agree they can be better. However you see that a lot from artists from that time period sometimes. Some of them just want that wall up. 

Truth is they reunited and cashed out on their opportunity. This has been the big chip in the back pocket for years. It’s why Izzy wouldn’t return without getting that chip. There’s just no incentive. On the other hand, GNR can sell that tour without him. Maybe that’s now another chip they can use for another day, idk...

GNR is a top touring act internationally again. Their brand worth has been restored outside of the message board community. People are willing to pay those prices. If anything they are maximizing the opportunity. 

Now what does that mean for us here? We’ll see. We’re a very small niche of the pie. More stuff like the troubadour show? More giveaways? Idk.. They attempted to set that up through Nightrain. I know they gave away AFD cassettes to members at one of the last shows. That’s stuff helps. Should they be doing more outside of a T-shirt for yearly online members? Absolutely, it falls short of the price commitment and dealing with Live Nation ticket scummery. 

[ZoSoRose]

My two favorite active bands, GNR and X Japan, refuse to release albums and have similarly small discographies

Frusturating

[donny]

now this has come to light people may want to have a good think about dealing with hoarders. hopefully it has made the hoarders material near on worthless.

[TheSeeker]

"Lawrence in Florida" has probably done more to make unreleased GNR material surface in the past 10 years than anyone - shout out to him, regardless of his reputation

[WAR41]

Wow, what an episode.  @RussTCB I said exactly what you said about the GNR Nightrain fan club on that message board before my subscription ran out.  Make it worth my while to be there.  Release an official show from the UYI tour every quarter on the website.  If that isn't possible due to legal issues then put out a Chinese Democracy or NITL era show.  Let fans vote on which show gets out there.  Make me WANT to continue paying you money on a regular basis.  Stop with the crappy merch packages and the terrible ticket allotments in the fan club presale.  I don't even need the band to interact with me, just give me new video/audio content that I can't find anywhere else!  

Rick's story is wild.  I am so happy he was able to play a role in getting the HOB show out there as I have always wanted to see it, but I cannot believe he dropped $2K for it.  I have about a half hour left in the episode so not sure if this is discussed, but it seems to me that "Alfred" leaked Silkworms and Oh My God on his own to take heat off himself and direct it at Rick.  Judging by the stories I've heard of "Alfred" I know the personality type well and this tactic would be in line with that personality.  I personally still haven't heard any of the other leaks and am hopeful that eventually they'll make their way to me.

I remain determined to get the VMA Rehearsals.  I work in media in NYC and have some friends at Viacom.  I ask them every once in a while if they could dig for it in the archives.  Hell I even turned down a job there once.  If I got my hands on it I'm not sure how I would go about getting it out there, but I'd figure it out I suppose.

Great job on this one @Gambit83.  I would love if we could get an ongoing series for all leaks.  

 

 

[Sosso]

14 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Although that is a fairly good description on how Chinese Democracy was recorded. 

Use Your Illusion was recorded in the same way, wasn't it? Just a little bit less extreme. 

[RussTCB]

1 hour ago, TheSeeker said:

"Lawrence in Florida" has probably done more to make unreleased GNR material surface in the past 10 years than anyone - shout out to him, regardless of his reputation

I actually don't disagree with that at all.

40 minutes ago, WAR41 said:

Wow, what an episode.  @RussTCB I said exactly what you said about the GNR Nightrain fan club on that message board before my subscription ran out.  Make it worth my while to be there.  Release an official show from the UYI tour every quarter on the website.  If that isn't possible due to legal issues then put out a Chinese Democracy or NITL era show.  Let fans vote on which show gets out there.  Make me WANT to continue paying you money on a regular basis.  Stop with the crappy merch packages and the terrible ticket allotments in the fan club presale.  I don't even need the band to interact with me, just give me new video/audio content that I can't find anywhere else!  

Rick's story is wild.  I am so happy he was able to play a role in getting the HOB show out there as I have always wanted to see it, but I cannot believe he dropped $2K for it.  I have about a half hour left in the episode so not sure if this is discussed, but it seems to me that "Alfred" leaked Silkworms and Oh My God on his own to take heat off himself and direct it at Rick.  Judging by the stories I've heard of "Alfred" I know the personality type well and this tactic would be in line with that personality.  I personally still haven't heard any of the other leaks and am hopeful that eventually they'll make their way to me.

I remain determined to get the VMA Rehearsals.  I work in media in NYC and have some friends at Viacom.  I ask them every once in a while if they could dig for it in the archives.  Hell I even turned down a job there once.  If I got my hands on it I'm not sure how I would go about getting it out there, but I'd figure it out I suppose.

Great job on this one @Gambit83.  I would love if we could get an ongoing series for all leaks.  

That's my thing, just do something to offer actual music based product to your fans. There are MANY of us ready to throw money at music related GN'R releases. 

What's funny is that the VMA Rehearsals aren't really of interest to me. HOB 2001 was my holy grail followed at a close second by AFD 99. However, just like I'm not too interested in the VMA thing, I'm sure many people aren't too interested in AFD 99.

[soon]

Great episode. I still dont get the whole YT strikes thing, but I understand the leaks stuff now. Thanks!

"The Rant" tops any Axl rant ever!!!! Certainly in content (although an Anette Bening reference wouldnt hurt, lol) but it surpasses Axl in epic-ness even!!!

Really pissed off that Ricks family was threatened.

[Stoymatic]

Great episode. I wish everyone in the GnR camp could hear what Russ said about what a Night Train membership should get you. SOOOOO many more people would pay for a membership if GnR offered exclusive access to proshoots or unrealsed music. Even if they posted different versions of the same song would generate so much more revenue for the band. It makes no sense why Night Train is not ran properly. Even if you pay for Night Train and had to pay a few bucks to hear "new" music, memberships would skyrocket! I would be more than happy to join and pay a few bucks to stream unreleased concerts, or listen to I.R.S. 1999 demo. But no, instead of paying GnR, we get online and listen to them for free....Makes a ton of sense from a business perspective, right?!?!?!

[Uncle Bob]

7 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Btw he had done a video for I Don't Care About You consisting of live footage (he had also directed the videos for Duff's Believe In Me and Slash's Good To Be Alive) which apparently was never officially released:

https://vimeo.com/154408923

Reported -.-

[Russel Nash]

1 minute ago, Uncle Bob said:

Reported -.-

I must be someone here that makes those claims. Once the link got here, boom, copyright.

[Lio]

1 minute ago, Russel Nash said:

I must be someone here that makes those claims. Once the link got here, boom, copyright.

Of course it is. It's obvious that this forum and its posters are targeted. And I think we all know who's behind it. Sad, really.

[Jaygnr]

10 minutes ago, Russel Nash said:

I must be someone here that makes those claims. Once the link got here, boom, copyright.

Fuck sake

[Gambit83]

5 minutes ago, Lio said:

Of course it is. It's obvious that this forum and its posters are targeted. And I think we all know who's behind it. Sad, really.

Well until it stops and as long as people keep listening to my podcast, attention will continue to be brought to it. All they (person/people who are reading this who are stalking) have do to is apologize to those affected and become self-aware that it's sociopath behavior. I could recommend a good therapist. I've extended invites to all who want a voice, even the strikers. So GET IN THE RING.

[Blackstar]

13 minutes ago, Uncle Bob said:

Reported -.-

I still can't believe how easily the videos are removed.

Ffs, the uploader is the guy who made that video and most likely co-owner of the copyright.

[Uncle Bob]

1 minute ago, Blackstar said:

I still can't believe how easily the videos are removed.

Ffs, the uploader is the guy who made that video and most likely co-owner of the copyright.

Next step will be removing videos from GunsNRosesVEVO.

[DieselDaisy]

The way I perceive Guns to be run is it is very impersonal and automated, and overtly connected to advertising merchandising. The fanclub is a classic example, whereby it is just a third party who run it. Guns would have to run it themselves to implement positive changes such as downloadable content.