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Star Wars Episode IX - The Rise Of Skywalker Thread

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2 hours ago, Powerage5 said:

Where's that from?

I’m not entirely sure. The thread title says “the last page from the book of sith” with no caps or anything and I’ve never heard that title. Nobody has said for sure, but they did mention it’s Legends and they’re talking about Dark Empire and Luke facing AT-ATs with force projection. And they mentioned Rian Johnson used a Legends book when he came up with Luke using force projection. 

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2 hours ago, luciusfunk said:

I’m not entirely sure. The thread title says “the last page from the book of sith” with no caps or anything and I’ve never heard that title. Nobody has said for sure, but they did mention it’s Legends and they’re talking about Dark Empire and Luke facing AT-ATs with force projection. And they mentioned Rian Johnson used a Legends book when he came up with Luke using force projection. 

Back in the old canon there were two books written called Book of Jedi and Book of Sith, where the author was writing from the perspectives of various good and evil force users.

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3 hours ago, rocknroll41 said:

Back in the old canon there were two books written called Book of Jedi and Book of Sith, where the author was writing from the perspectives of various good and evil force users.

That’s probably what it’s from then. Thanks. 

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Abrams met with George Lucas prior to writing Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

In an interview with IGN at Star Wars Celebration Event in Chicago, Abrams discussed how he met with the 74-year-old franchise creator prior to writing the script to help craft an epic conclusion audiences and the possibility that his creative involvement might have led to the return of Ian McDiarmid’s Emperor Palpatine.

“This movie had a very, very specific challenge, which was to take eight films and give an ending to three trilogies, and so we had to look at, what is the bigger story? We had conversations amongst ourselves, we met with George Lucas before writing the script,” Abrams said. “These were things that were in real, not debate, but looking at the vastness of the story and trying to figure out, what is the way to conclude this? But it has to work on its own as a movie, it has to be its own thing, it has to be surprising and funny and you have to understand it.”

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It’s interesting to hear Kennedy say the plan was always to rope the emperor back into the final chapter.

It gives me the impression that there must have been broad stroke story points handed down to the filmmakers when they were given creative reign of their respective movies.

It begs the question of how much was predetermined about this saga - which we all thought was just riding on thin air from one film to the next. 

I would be more impressed if it was something organic that JJ came up with in the screenwriting process and not some notecard that was passed to him that said “emperor goes here...”.

In any event, it finally gets me excited about this saga, as the story telling in regards to these “new” characters has been less than remarkable. 

Since they’ve failed to make Rey, Kylo, Poe and Finn as interesting and endearing as the OT characters - I’m all for them going back to the well to resurrect dead ones.

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Apparently I took that laugh at the end of the trailer wrong. I thought it was Snoke, not the Emporer. 

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13 hours ago, appetite4illusions said:

Since they’ve failed to make Rey, Kylo, Poe and Finn as interesting and endearing as the OT characters

I'm not sure this was ever going to be possible though.  

Luke, Han, Leigh, Chewy - they are part of pop culture lore and iconic characters.  They were the first characters of a real movie franchise that is held in high esteem by anyone old enough to be around in the 1970s and 1980s.  

That's not to say that the new characters could not have been better.  I think the character of Rey does a serviceable job of filling the same role Luke played in the OT.  Her origins (until Johnson took the air out of the balloon) were very intriguing and I think her value in the greater Star Wars narrative could end up being as vital as Luke's.  BB-8 has been a great addition does an admirable job of filling the void of R2-D2.  

The problem is the rest of the cast.  Neither Poe nor Finn come close to replacing the charisma of Han.  It's a shame they killed off Solo in TFA since his charm is definitely missed in TLJ.  The main characters get very little screen time in TLJ, another major problem with that film.  As a result it's hard to feel any kind of connection between the main characters.  While in the OT there is separating of the main characters in the OT (particularly Luke in ESB), there's still a feeling of cohesion between them that endures.  There's no similar report between the main characters in this trilogy (at least in my opinion).  Poe isn't even introduced to Rey until the very end of TLJ.  

At the risk of causing rage-induced panic attacks from lonely white guys everywhere, it would have been better had Finn traveled with Ray to Luke's hideaway in TLJ as a means to expand and deepen their connection, akin to Leia and Han.  Instead we got the ill-conceived and pointless Rose-Finn adventure/fiasco in TLJ that ended up being a net negative.  

Then there's Kylo.  Granted it would have been almost impossible to introduce a character as iconic and interesting as Vadar, but Kylo definitely falls short.  When we were introduced to Vadar in the OT, he was fully formed and seemed all powerful.  Kylo is almost the exact opposite, save for his ability to force-stop a blaster charge.  The fact he gets dusted by Rey in TFA completely undermined any semblance of menace or danger to the character.  By this point in the OT, Vadar had killed Obi One, encased Solo in carbonate, and chopped off his son's hand.  The guy was bad-assed.  What's Kylo done?  Other than take out Snoke and kill his unarmed father, he was bested by an untrained noob, made a fool by Luke, and couldn't pull the trigger on taking out his mom.  He's like the lazy millennial version of Vadar.  

The other handicap the new characters have is they are operating in the shadow of the old iconic figures.  They aren't really given their own runway to flourish as the audience is constantly being reminded of the original trilogy.  It's a tough thing to balance.  This trilogy is obviously driven by the new characters but not really given the room to grow due to the presence of Han, Solo and Luke.  

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As I see it, the biggest detriment Disney had in crafting this new trilogy was their reluctance to effectively use the original characters.

They were so afraid that by keeping Han alive, by giving us a Luke who fought alongside the freshmen or by making Leia as anything but a character who stared out of windows, we would forget or otherwise tune out this "new generation."

They saddled the legendary characters in hopes of letting the new ones take flight, only that didn't quite happen.

Instead, it left a feeling of malaise and frustration that has carried over into what is now, the last film of what is supposed to be, the epic conclusion.

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1 minute ago, appetite4illusions said:

As I see it, the biggest detriment Disney had in crafting this new trilogy was their reluctance to effectively use the original characters.

They were so afraid that by keeping Han alive, by giving us a Luke who fought alongside the freshmen or by making Leia as anything but a character who stared out of windows, we would forget or otherwise tune out this "new generation."

They saddled the legendary characters in hopes of letting the new ones take flight, only that didn't quite happen.

Instead, it left a feeling of malaise and frustration that has carried over into what is now, the last film of what is supposed to be, the epic conclusion.

Agreed, though I mostly blame Johnson for this issue.  I felt Abrams did a good enough job setting the able in TFA, with plenty enough screen time for Solo and Chewy.  

That said, it's shame they killed Han.  This could have been avoided had Kylo Ren been more advanced in his abilities and command.

I liked the mystery of Luke in TFA and was hoping it would lead to something much bigger and better in TLJ.  Instead we got a crabby Skywalker and a Leia who could somehow Marry Poppins her way through dead space and then be absent the remainder of the film, save for the last few minutes.  

I think TFA was harmed by the follow up since the audience assumed we'd get more of a showing from the original characters.  Instead Johsnon (though Abrams was a producer, so he gets blame here too) decided to shit on everything that made people love the original characters.  

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27 minutes ago, appetite4illusions said:

As I see it, the biggest detriment Disney had in crafting this new trilogy was their reluctance to effectively use the original characters.

They were so afraid that by keeping Han alive, by giving us a Luke who fought alongside the freshmen or by making Leia as anything but a character who stared out of windows, we would forget or otherwise tune out this "new generation."

They saddled the legendary characters in hopes of letting the new ones take flight, only that didn't quite happen.

Instead, it left a feeling of malaise and frustration that has carried over into what is now, the last film of what is supposed to be, the epic conclusion.

This, their decision to kill off the characters I loved totally put me off their story. 

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I think you can see their reluctance right off the bat - with Force Awakens.

They hid Luke, made him a plot device and set up this notion that he's hung up his cape and he's done with virtue. Maybe JJ thought he was teasing a big return but he was setting the foundation for them to do nothing with Luke.

They explained that by arguing that when they were crafting the script for Force Awakens, they couldn't figure out what to do with Luke. He's so powerful, so adored and so intrinsic to Star Wars that he was totally overshadowing anything new they wanted to do. They had drafts of Force Awakens where Luke would show up and fight but they recognized that at that point, anything they would try and build would be tossed aside because, here was Luke to save the day.

It was the reason the first screenwriter was fired and his draft thrown out - they got to the Luke part and said, "well, he takes over the whole movie at that point, so what do we do? I guess we do nothing with him..."

JJ can point the finger at Rian Johnson, if he wants, but I certainly remember him claiming that the episode 8 script was "brilliant" and that he "wished he was directing it" himself.

It is quite a dillemma and I won't claim I myself have the answer for what they wanted to achieve; to treat the old characters with respect but bring new ones into glory.

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1 hour ago, Graeme said:

This, their decision to kill off the characters I loved totally put me off their story. 

I always assumed the new trilogy would kill off Luke, Leia, and Han, so I was fine with it.  My issue has been how they've gone about it. 

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7 minutes ago, downzy said:

I always assumed the new trilogy would kill off Luke, Leia, and Han, so I was fine with it.  My issue has been how they've gone about it. 

I didn't, I thought it would give them more adventures and challenges and development (because that was what happened in the novels). 

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I feel like there was no way Ford would’ve signed on for multiple movies, and given how active he was in TFA, I would say they did the best they could there.

Fisher, given the decline in her acting career and her drug issues, was probably used to the best of her ability as well. Also, its more than confirmed that she would’ve played a large role in TRoS had she not died, so it seems they’re doing the best they can with whatever leftover footage they have.

part of me wishes Lando would’ve been a member of the Resistance since TFA, but having him only show up here in TRoS also adds a certain “uniqueness” to his character. Besides, if any of the classic characters would’ve gone back to what they were doing as soon as the Empire was defeated, it would’ve been Lando.

the only classic character I think they could’ve done a little more with is Luke, but there’s still time to make up for that with TRoS. I hope he’s very active in the story, and not just in like one scene as a ghost to just give Rey some advice or something.

so, overall, I’m mostly happy with the direction of the sequel trilogy SO FAR, but TRoS needs to do some specific things in order for it to feel truly fulfilling to me. I want the title (The Rise of Skywalker) to equally apply to Anakin, Luke, Kylo, and (spiritually) Rey as much as possible.

this is their last chance to get it right. They can’t fuck this one up.

Edited by rocknroll41
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1 hour ago, Graeme said:

I didn't, I thought it would give them more adventures and challenges and development (because that was what happened in the novels). 

I think the limitation there is the age of the actors/actresses.  I'm not super familiar with the extended universe but I believe much of it happens not too long after ROTJ.  

With the actors as old as they are, it might have pushed our sense of belief were Luke, Leia, and Solo to take down star destroyers or escape trash compactors.  

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1 hour ago, rocknroll41 said:

this is their last chance to get it right. They can’t fuck this one up.

That's what I said before going into seeing Revenge of the Sith.  LOL.

1 hour ago, rocknroll41 said:

I want the title (The Rise of Skywalker) to equally apply to Anakin, Luke, Kylo, and (spiritually) Rey as much as possible.

Yeah, that's all I'm hoping for and it would seem as though that's the general direction.  It is the Skywalker saga after all; they need a conclusion that somehow honours the family while enshrining the name.  

That's why I think predictions that the name Skywalker will transcend the Jedi Order and as cheesy as it sounds bring balance to the force.  I don't really see how this ends any other way.  

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5 minutes ago, downzy said:

I think the limitation there is the age of the actors/actresses.  I'm not super familiar with the extended universe but I believe much of it happens not too long after ROTJ.  

With the actors as old as they are, it might have pushed our sense of belief were Luke, Leia, and Solo to take down star destroyers or escape trash compactors.  

I mean, it's not really a strict binary choice between having them doing all of the 'heavy lifting' in terms of action and killing them because they've nothing to offer to the story. Han did a pretty good job in participating in the adventure in TFA up until they killed him. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Graeme said:

I mean, it's not really a strict binary choice between having them doing all of the 'heavy lifting' in terms of action and killing them because they've nothing to offer to the story. Han did a pretty good job in participating in the adventure in TFA up until they killed him. 

 

Yeah, I think Han would be the one exception with Ford being somewhat believable.  

But I do think it would have been a bridge too far to plop Mark Hamil in the same role and expect the same stories from the Extended Universe.  But that's just my take.  That story needed to be told decades ago.

Part of me wishes that some day they'd reboot the whole damn thing.  Redo episodes 1 through 9 but make them consistent with the same actors.  Include heavy re-writes of Episodes I-III and the new trilogy (have it start no too long after ROTJ to incorporate much of the EU storylines).  The current series suffers from start and stop fits over five decades. It's hard to watch the sleek visuals of the prequels and then see 1970s fashion and technology in the OT.  It's been a botched series ever since Lucas decided to do the prequels.  Some day they should start again and turn down the suck of Episodes I-III, avoid the Ewoks of ROTJ, and have Episodes VII - IX start soon after ROTJ.  

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Maybe "Skywalker" ends up meaning someone who is conceived by the force, like Anakin and Rey were?

Yes, "there is another Skywalker" in Leia and Luke but it could come to mean a midi-clorian baby?

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7 hours ago, appetite4illusions said:

As I see it, the biggest detriment Disney had in crafting this new trilogy was their reluctance to effectively use the original characters.

They were so afraid that by keeping Han alive,

 

7 hours ago, downzy said:

That said, it's shame they killed Han. 

 

Harrison Ford wanted Han killed off during the original trilogy. So it's most likely he would only do the movie if his character died.

https://www.cinemablend.com/new/Why-Harrison-Ford-Wanted-Han-Solo-Die-Return-Jedi-100887.html

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3 hours ago, downzy said:

Yeah, I think Han would be the one exception with Ford being somewhat believable.  

But I do think it would have been a bridge too far to plop Mark Hamil in the same role and expect the same stories from the Extended Universe.  But that's just my take.  That story needed to be told decades ago.

Part of me wishes that some day they'd reboot the whole damn thing.  Redo episodes 1 through 9 but make them consistent with the same actors.  Include heavy re-writes of Episodes I-III and the new trilogy (have it start no too long after ROTJ to incorporate much of the EU storylines).  The current series suffers from start and stop fits over five decades. It's hard to watch the sleek visuals of the prequels and then see 1970s fashion and technology in the OT.  It's been a botched series ever since Lucas decided to do the prequels.  Some day they should start again and turn down the suck of Episodes I-III, avoid the Ewoks of ROTJ, and have Episodes VII - IX start soon after ROTJ.  

I think they’ll only do that in like 50 years from now, long after Generation X is dead.

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Could the TIE part at the beginning be training? Why would the pilot try running her down without firing any weapons?

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1 hour ago, luciusfunk said:

Could the TIE part at the beginning be training? Why would the pilot try running her down without firing any weapons?

Could be some kinda hallucination. Or maybe by that point in the story Kylo is good and training Rey, like you’re theorizing.

No matter what happens; this will all be very interesting, to say the least.

Edited by rocknroll41

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