Kwick1 Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 @Tom2112, I don't think it's the bands responsibility to monitor promotional items, their costs or content on YouTube. I also don't think Axl, Slash or Duff sat around deciding what was going in the box set or any of the other sets and the costs. we can always voice our opinion by not spending $ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooker Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 The biggest surprise to me is that someone actually bought the L&L boxset. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombux Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 17 minutes ago, -Jaro- said: One guy, who annoyed rock n roll star Axl have something to say about fans & customers Well, Axl well said back in the beginings that he wouldn t want to become Iron Miden kind of band - guess what - he didn't! extremely well said by Bruce! I don't give a damn about Iron Maiden at all. altough I really really like some of Bruce's solo stuff! but what he said was perfectly spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sabbath Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 The prices are the same for every other artist on there. Why is GN'R specifically being called out here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 15 minutes ago, -Jaro- said: One guy, who annoyed rock n roll star Axl have something to say about fans & customers That was funny. "Beer with integrity", lol. With the change of a few words, this could be a speech by a rep of company that makes whatever product or sells whatever service. All companies want their customers to feel like "fans" of the product or service, so that they won't switch to another company. Are you saying that this should be a model for GnR or that it's at least better than what GnR are doing currently (besides the "releasing new music" factor) in regards of fan treatment? I think part of the problem is that the fans themselves want to be treated like customers who are made to feel like fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Its Tino Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 3 hours ago, donny said: can you imagine them saying "your favourite YT channels where closed down and forum members family members have been threatened with OUR full backing" now would you like to buy a picture of the band from us for £260. Totally f****ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Jaro- Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Blackstar said: That was funny. "Beer with integrity", lol. With the change of a few words, this could be a speech by a rep of company that makes whatever product or sells whatever service. All companies want their customers to feel like "fans" of the product or service, so that they won't switch to another company. Are you saying that this should be a model for GnR or that it's at least better than what GnR are doing currently (besides the "releasing new music" factor) in regards of fan treatment? I think part of the problem is that the fans themselves want to be treated like customers who are made to feel like fans. Yes I do... and this speech is from some business start up thing - not connected with Maiden. We are customers treated like fans by some and customers treated like atm machines by some... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarpatch Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, -Jaro- said: Yes I do... and this speech is from some business start up thing - not connected with Maiden. We are customers treated like fans by some and customers treated like atm machines by some... Let’s not forget that UMG and LiveNation have more to say in these perceptions on some of these instances. GNR doesn’t have complete control over every facet besides their involvement (which the alternative would be to not release anything and stay off the road) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwick1 Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, guitarpatch said: GNR doesn’t have complete control over every facet besides their involvement (which the alternative would be to not release anything and stay off the road) Completely agree and well said (entire post) I'm only quoting the last part because we all know that is just an action that Axl has been known to take. I'd rather simply not spend on stuff I don't want and see my favorite band performing and have the opportunity for new music. Edited August 2, 2018 by Kwick1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waemoth Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 Does it really matter who it is that's behind this financial strategy? I don't care if it's Axl, some UMG guy or Dizzy making weird decisions. It has the same impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarpatch Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 Just now, Waemoth said: Does it really matter who it is that's behind this financial strategy? I don't care if it's Axl, some UMG guy or Dizzy making weird decisions. It has the same impact. It matters if you’re trying to place misguided blame, and speaking generally upon what certain parties should do. Fact is that it’s all a bit more complicated with many moving parts than what people realize (ie the Big 3 don’t just split the gross rev every night). I’m sure the band/mgmt have been more than preoccupied over the last 2 years with many parties pulling them in a thousand directions (besides merch designs as people like to joke). It’s been a massively successful and exciting 2 years of activity. I don’t think anyone can honestly look at this and say otherwise. The fact that we got this when looking back at the situation in 2007-09 is beyond my expectations. Yet it goes to show that people will complain about anything No one is forcing anyone to buy any of this stuff. No one is going to call you less of a fan if you don’t. I certainly have held off on the majority of it. Supply and demand works just as well in the music business than anywhere else so that’s everyone’s golden sword to yield. If this section of the fan base isn’t receptive to what they offer, they will all eventually alter their position. I just think it goes to an unnecessary level of blaming, trolling and armchair quarterback play calling at times. It’s great to be engaged and care about this stuff, but at certain point I can’t see how any of this helps. We only see 1% of what’s going on and make these proclamations 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waemoth Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, guitarpatch said: It matters if you’re trying to place misguided blame, and speaking generally upon what certain parties should do. Fact is that it’s all a bit more complicated with many moving parts than what people realize (ie the Big 3 don’t just split the gross rev every night). I’m sure the band/mgmt have been more than preoccupied over the last 2 years with many parties pulling them in a thousand directions (besides merch designs as people like to joke). It’s been a massively successful and exciting 2 years of activity. I don’t think anyone can honestly look at this and say otherwise. The fact that we got this when looking back at the situation in 2007-09 is beyond my expectations. Yet it goes to show that people will complain about anything No one is forcing anyone to buy any of this stuff. No one is going to call you less of a fan if you don’t. I certainly have held off on the majority of it. Supply and demand works just as well in the music business than anywhere else so that’s everyone’s golden sword to yield. If this section of the fan base isn’t receptive to what they offer, they will all eventually alter their position. I just think it goes to an unnecessary level of blaming, trolling and armchair quarterback play calling at times. It’s great to be engaged and care about this stuff, but at certain point I can’t see how any of this helps. We only see 1% of what’s going on and make these proclamations Still though. It feels to me that it's more than likely that this detracts interest of releasing music from whoever is in charge. I wouldn't mind them doing stuff like this provided they actually released something. Now the Remastered was great and all, but I'd very much like if they made their living selling us pro-shots and new music rather than (re)releasing old stuff and giving us overpriced shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 26 minutes ago, -Jaro- said: Yes I do... and this speech is from some business start up thing - not connected with Maiden. We are customers treated like fans by some and customers treated like atm machines by some... I think that in both cases the fans are treated like consumers. But in one case there is the delusion that they are treated like fans to the point that this thing is seen as "integrity"; the only non delusional part is the release of more of the main product (music). An example of what I'm saying is some complaints I've read about GnR not offering meets and greets as part of the VIP or golden circle packages like other bands do. So some people would feel like being treated more like fans if they were given the opportunity to pay to meet the band and they would consider the price of the package more worthy. But to me when band members ask for money to meet fans is the definition of "jumping the dolphin". 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarpatch Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Waemoth said: Still though. It feels to me that it's more than likely that this detracts interest of releasing music from whoever is in charge. I wouldn't mind them doing stuff like this provided they actually released something. Now the Remastered was great and all, but I'd very much like if they made their living selling us pro-shots and new music rather than (re)releasing old stuff and giving us overpriced shit. That would all be awesome. However it's prob more complicated than we think to say it. We'll see what happens with new material. It just never made sense timing wise to release anything with this tour. The next tour? Maybe it does as it could help promote it. They just didn't need any help with the reunion being the driving force. Plus, I think they wanted to ease into this and rebuild the foundation of the band (which speaks more to their dedication long term if true) We all know that the recording process has been a sticking point for multiple members in the past. Perhaps a bridge to cross later when the foundation is built The other part of it is that GNR is beholden to a record contract. They can't just release pro-shots without their permission, involvement, and inevitably their hands in the bands pockets. Maybe that's a scenario and something they'd like to do once the contract is over and maybe that would enough of an incentive to release music so that they can end it. It all depends upon what they want to do, where the contract stands, and what they can negotiate. Lots of lawyer time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waemoth Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, guitarpatch said: That would all be awesome. However it's prob more complicated than we think to say it. We'll see what happens with new material. It just never made sense timing wise to release anything with this tour. The next tour? Maybe it does as it could help promote it. They just didn't need any help with the reunion being the driving force. Plus, I think they wanted to ease into this and rebuild the foundation of the band (which speaks more to their dedication long term if true) We all know that the recording process has been a sticking point for multiple members in the past. Perhaps a bridge to cross later when the foundation is built The other part of it is that GNR is beholden to a record contract. They can't just release pro-shots without their permission, involvement, and inevitably their hands in the bands pockets. Maybe that's a scenario and something they'd like to do once the contract is over and maybe that would enough of an incentive to release music so that they can end it. It all depends upon what they want to do, where the contract stands, and what they can negotiate. Lots of lawyer time. Yeah and also past members possibly not being positive to the thought of releasing live material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 36 minutes ago, guitarpatch said: No one is forcing anyone to buy any of this stuff. No one is going to call you less of a fan if you don’t. ffs... did you EVEN read the email that was sent to this fan??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarpatch Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 1 minute ago, killuridols said: ffs... did you EVEN read the email that was sent to this fan??? It's UMG marketing speak. You honestly believe that? Im hard pressed to believe anyone associated w the band will call your loyalty into question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, guitarpatch said: It's UMG marketing speak. You honestly believe that? Im hard pressed to believe anyone associated w the band will call your loyalty into question You said that no one is going to call us less of a fan if we don't buy the box but there is one fan out there who received a letter from Universal, who happens to be directly related to the band, and was called a "one of the biggest GN'R fan in the world" for purchasing the box. What more empowering does anyone need than having the label sweet talking in their ears in such way? It's not a matter of believing or not. It is a FACT that people representing the band THINK this way!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombux Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 8 minutes ago, guitarpatch said: It's UMG marketing speak. You honestly believe that? Im hard pressed to believe anyone associated w the band will call your loyalty into question to be loyal doesn't neccessarily mean you must spend hundreds like a drunk millionaire. just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarpatch Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, killuridols said: You said that no one is going to call us less of a fan if we don't buy the box but there is one fan out there who received a letter from Universal, who happens to be directly related to the band, and was called a "one of the biggest GN'R fan in the world" for purchasing the box. What more empowering does anyone need than having the label sweet talking in their ears in such way? It's not a matter of believing or not. It is a FACT that people representing the band THINK this way!!! It's a fact that someone bought the box set, and some 22 year old copywriter working in the marketing dept at UMG wrote that email copy in 10 mins so that maybe 10% of the recipients open an email and 1% of those actually visit the site to purchase. You are all wayyyyy overthinking the level of involvement here. It's UMG. Surely they represent the band, but only because they have GNR under a contract that they signed over 20+ years ago. They have an email list of people who spent a ridiculous amount of $ on a product that they priced and marketed themselves. They are seeing if anyone will give them $ twice and people are shocked about this? Again, I'm hard pressed to believe Duff McKagan would believe or tell anyone who doesn't purchase a Ross Halfin print that they aren't really a "super fan". Whatever that term even means... Edited August 2, 2018 by guitarpatch 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooker Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 Easiest thing to do is to remove a sucker from his money. I personally don't think the "band" themselves are actively involved, however, I'm sure they don't mind the royalties being received, and would rather not question the ethical aspect of the enterprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, guitarpatch said: It's a fact that someone bought the box set, and some 22 year old copywriter working in the marketing dept at UMG wrote that email copy in 10 mins so that maybe 10% of the recipients open an email and 1% of those actually visit the site to purchase. You are all wayyyyy overthinking the level of involvement here. It's UMG. Surely they represent the band, but only because they have GNR under a contract that they signed over 20+ years ago. They have an email list of people who spent a ridiculous amount of $ on a product that they priced and marketed themselves. They are seeing if anyone will give them $ twice and people are shocked about this? Again, I'm hard pressed to believe Duff McKagan would believe or tell anyone who doesn't purchase a Rob Halfin print that they aren't really a "super fan". Whatever that term even means... It's NOT A FACT that "some 22 year old copywriter working in the mkt dept at UMG wrote that email copy in 10 mins". That's a fantasy scenario that you created in your mind because you are on a ride trying to justify this greedy band. Unless you are that 22 years old copywriter.... because you pretty much sound like someone who works for them Here the only fact is that an email WITH THOSE WORDS are being sent to the customers and it doesn't matter if there are 20 similar forms. That copy is a decision made by someone higher in the MKT department, probably following the directions of someone higher in the ladder. Either way, we are not here to analyze the hierarchy in Universal but the content of their messages and the content is pretty obscene. Who cares what Duff thinks about the fandom when the chances of having Duff telling you anything as a fan are ONE IN A MILLION. Edited August 2, 2018 by killuridols Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarpatch Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, killuridols said: It's NOT A FACT that "some 22 year old copywriter working in the mkt dept at UMG wrote that email copy in 10 mins". That's a fantasy scenario that you created in your mind because you are on a ride trying to justify this greedy band. Unless you are that 22 years old copywriter.... because you pretty much sound like someone who works for them Here the only fact is that an email WITH THOSE WORDS are being sent to the customers and it doesn't matter if there are 20 similar forms. That copy is a decision made by someone higher in the MKT department, probably following the directions of someone higher in the latter. But either way, we are not here to analyze the hierarchy in Universal but the content of their messages and the content is pretty obscene. Who care what Duff thinks when the chances of having Duff telling you anything as a fan are ONE IN A MILLION. I've had enough professional experience in the music industry to know how it most likely works. Sorry for the insight, and no I have no involvement with any of this or UMG. Just my experience working similar situations. Yes, UMG looks at every fan as a $ sign. Labels have had that mentality since their inception. They are now a business who doesn't rely on the volume of physical sales any longer and drive revenue through these types of projects. So it seems as if you're maybe upset that a snake is a snake? It also seems like you care deeply about how UMG thinks what type of fan you are than someone associated close to the band 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 13 minutes ago, guitarpatch said: So it seems as if you're maybe upset that a snake is a snake? It also seems like you care deeply about how UMG thinks what type of fan you are than someone associated close to the band JFC! A snake is not snake, it is an animal without reasoning. These assholes are assholes with lots of reasoning and greed in their souls. I don't give a fuck what UMG thinks because their marketing does not work with my profile. What I care about are THE FANS and how they are treated by this band, whether its the band members or their representatives. Why is that so hard for you to understand? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratam Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 6 hours ago, rossco said: just out of asking where is this taken from.? In Brazil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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