GNR jumped the dolphin (finally)

[zigzagbigbag]

What I still don't buy is this "the band/management is not involved in the pricing" argument.  

Of course it is. And it always was, at least since GNR went big and Axl went though the Mick Jagger-school in the late 80s. If someone has total control to everything GNR related its him. 

Do you know/remember one of the main reasons why the UYI albums are split into two separate albums and not being released as a double album? It was the pricing!  Alan Niven convinced Axl Rose that a double album would be too expensive for the casual fan. Instead the fans should be able to buy each album spread over a few weeks and help themselves out with tape trading in the meantime. 

... times change  

 

Edited August 2, 2018 by zigzagbigbag

[Ratam]

5 hours ago, zombux said:

to be fair, I still honestly believe that the band members have little to nothing to do with all this idiotic shit, and they probably don't give a fuck about it, as soon as they're getting their salaries from the guys who "manage the business".

agreed ,this is record company to blame.

[killuridols]

2 minutes ago, zigzagbigbag said:

What I still don't buy is this "the band/management is not involved in the pricing" argument.  

Of course it is. And it always was, at least since GNR went big and Axl went though the Mick Jagger-school in the late 80s. If someone has total control to everything GNR related its him. 

Do you know/remember one of the main reasons why the UYI albums are split into two separate albums and not being released as a double album? It was the pricing!  Alan Niven convinced Axl Rose that a double album would be too expensive for the casual fan. Instead the fans should be able to buy each album spread over a few weeks and help themselves out with tape trading in the meantime. 

... times change 

They are TOTALLY involved!

How anyone here, with a bit of maturity,  can think that these guys sit down and let others decide everything about $$$??
It is their work, it is their image, it is their music that's being cashed on and people here are so gullible to think that just because they are artists they don't care about how much money they make?

How many of you do not have a clue about what income you have monthly, yearly? How many of you do not know how much your patrimony is?

Unless you are a very irresponsible person, immature or 12 years old, there's no way in hell these guys (professional musicians in their mid-50s) are clueless about the businesses they are involved with!

[Ratam]

2 hours ago, Blackstar said:

That was funny. "Beer with integrity", lol.

With the change of a few words, this could be a speech by a rep of company that makes whatever product or sells whatever service. All companies want their customers to feel like "fans" of the product or service, so that they won't switch to another company.

Are you saying that this should be a model for GnR or that it's at least better than what GnR are doing currently (besides the "releasing new music" factor) in regards of fan treatment?

I think part of the problem is that the fans themselves want to be treated like customers who are made to feel like fans.

Fews days ago i read Billy Joel interview on VUlture and he said that people wonder he why has many Billy Joel live albums and compilations and he said "the're not my idea" the record company own all these recordings and can package them any way they want. And he said that live records to he don't mean anything.

[-Jaro-]

Just wanted to write - GNR is not some teen band whose members will be thrilled cause they got a gig tonight - they are mature, successfull public persons with 30+ years in music. That makes them not knowing what's behind their $$ montain is impossible...

And to say LiveNation and UMG are the devils to blame and Big 3 are just puppets is funny and full of disrespect to that big 3...

Every band has their own LiveNation or UMG but nit every band acts like GNR...

There are bands that don't avoid smaller/poorer markets - they adjust...

[Damn This Jail]

When Pitman was suing Axl he said he'd pretty much ran out of money in 2011 or 2012. I didn't really believe it or care. I eventually remembered that that's about the time Axl actually started showing up on time for concerts. Now this might seem cynical to a lot of people but TB and the band don't even care if this reeks of "hey, we've just made our money with this tour and everybody's paid, now let's just do what we really want." I mean talk about a transparent cash grab. It all is boiling down to the almighty green as being THEE motive and it's a sad that they're not even attempting to quash that narrative. 

[zombux]

3 minutes ago, Damn This Jail said:

When Pitman was suing Axl he said he'd pretty much ran out of money in 2011 or 2012. I didn't really believe it or care. I eventually remembered that that's about the time Axl actually started showing up on time for concerts. Now this might seem cynical to a lot of people but TB and the band don't even care if this reeks of "hey, we've just made our money with this tour and everybody's paid, now let's just do what we really want." I mean talk about a transparent cash grab. It all is boiling down to the almighty green as being THEE motive and it's a sad that they're not even attempting to quash that narrative. 

that's probably as you say. 2010 - the label rejects CD2/remix album/whatever -> result was Axl gave up on the whole thing. but he also ran out of money, so the whole 2011-14 touring was just desperately trying to earn money, not backing up any (at least potential) album release as during previous years.

[Ratam]

2 minutes ago, zombux said:

that's probably as you say. 2010 - the label rejects CD2/remix album/whatever -> result was Axl gave up on the whole thing. but he also ran out of money, so the whole 2011-14 touring was just desperately trying to earn money, not backing up any (at least potential) album release as during previous years.

Hi Beta🙋

[YourMother'sDruthers]

Can't believe anyone would pay 1000 bucks, or even 100 for that dumb box set. Don't support the GNR brand until they release new music. 

[Tom2112]

6 hours ago, Kwick1 said:

@Tom2112, I don't think it's the bands responsibility to monitor promotional items, their costs or content on YouTube. I also don't think Axl, Slash or Duff sat around deciding what was going in the box set or any of the other sets and the costs.

we can always voice our opinion by not spending $

I disagree, most bands have their say in what goes in these special edition releases. I think they decided what extra material was included etc. I also think that they oversaw the decision for the posters etc. They might not have picked everything originally but I'm almost certain Axl would have looked at the final proposal and then gave the thunvsup or down.

[RONIN]

When I was little, we found a man. He looked like - like, bloated. The old woman in the village crossed themselves... and whispered crazy things, strange things. "El Diablo cazador de hombres." Only in the hottest years this happens. And this year, it grows hot. We begin finding our men. We found them sometimes without their skins... and sometimes much, much worse. "El cazador trofeo de los hombres" means the redhead who devours cake.

[Old_school_gnr_fan]

12 hours ago, ZoSoRose said:

Locked and loaded would be cool for 200. For 1000 it's a junk box

It's worth more than $200. An empty box would be worth at least $100-150.

Worth $999? No. I'd put the top value at around $600, but as I said in another thread, this box set and the Super Deluxe Edition likely would have been far less expensive if people stopped stealing their music off torrent sites. They could have produced 50,000 Locked N' Loaded sets and charged $300 for them; that would have made them more profit than 10,000 sets at $999.

[Old_school_gnr_fan]

3 hours ago, YourMother'sDruthers said:

Can't believe anyone would pay 1000 bucks, or even 100 for that dumb box set. Don't support the GNR brand until they release new music. 

As I said in another thread, I think Axl/GN'R would be much more open to releasing new music if he felt it wouldn't be stolen off a torrent site before the physical copy hits store shelves. 

Appetite For Destruction is the greatest rock album ever made. This remastered edition in all of it's formats (Locked N' Loaded, Super Deluxe, 2 CD, vinyl) should have already sold three million copies at least, but it's nowhere near that because people just steal it online.

[DeadSlash]

5 hours ago, cooker said:

Easiest thing to do is to remove a sucker from his money. I personally don't think the "band" themselves are actively involved, however, I'm sure they don't mind the royalties being received, and would rather not question the ethical aspect of the enterprise.  

Yeah, some people don't seem to think that is a possibility.  There is a 60% chance Axl/Slash aren't even aware of this and a 90% chance Duff isn't.  It certainly isn't something Duff needed to "sign off on" as some people were saying.

It's really doubtful that every single thing is run by the band, there was an all encompassing contract they agreed to that last for X amount of years, and that's probably the last they see of it...except for the big fat checks, ofc.

[WhazUp]

18 minutes ago, Old_school_gnr_fan said:

Super Deluxe Edition likely would have been far less expensive if people stopped stealing their music off torrent sites.

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-45042838

There actually are many reports of the last few years that streaming services have been on the rise and illegal downloading on the fall.  Music and video streaming services are so easy and convenient that they have been the biggest helper for decreasing torrenting

Personally, I would say the reason why a lot of people aren't buying the SDE is because of the fact it is so expensive.  That edition was not made for regular CD buying folks who want the remastered Appetite, that is the 2 CD version.  The fact that many hardcore GNR collectors and fans here including myself won't buy something that pricey, in my opinion speaks volumes.

If GNR did price it high because of illegal downloaders, they are shooting themselves in the foot.  Now they will get people not purchasing that because it is too expensive, and it will do nothing to help combat whatever problem they think they have

 

If it was up to me, I would have added a 4 CD cardboard CD case edition with just the music and liner notes like the 2 CD version.  I would have bought that.  But at least over 100 bucks for 4 CD's?  Spotify to the rescue.

Edited August 3, 2018 by WhazUp

[DieselDaisy]

To be honest there isn't that much exciting enough to entice illegal downloaders. Download The Plague and New Work Tune; listen a few times; delete. That is as exciting this boxset ever gets really.

[ludurigan]

11 hours ago, guitarpatch said:

This part of the fan base helps long term. The dark years keeping the band alive being the foremost example 

this is off topic but

do you really think that whoever went to Axl solo era concerts "kept the band alive"?

consider this "alternate reality" scenario

Guns n Roses implodes in the 90s. Axl Rose disappears from public sight. Never performs live again. In 2014, he joins Duff's band Loaded onstage. A few months later, Slash announces he is no longer in bad terms with Axl. a little later Coachella announces GNR "reunion" show.    

Do you think the GNR "reunion" shows/tour would be less successful in this scenario?

Edited August 3, 2018 by ludurigan

[ludurigan]

pretty much everything that this band whatever is left of this band has done since Izzy left in 1991 can be described as a JOKE

it is all a big JOKE and it has been like that for 27 years including Circus Tour 1992, naming Axl solo career as "GNR", Fake Live Era album, Fake Reunion, Ticket Prices, Franky Ferrer, Ricky Fartus, Melissa, the Toy Box, the list goes on and on...

its unbelievable indeed

[FuriousStyles]

6 hours ago, RONIN said:

When I was little, we found a man. He looked like - like, bloated. The old woman in the village crossed themselves... and whispered crazy things, strange things. "El Diablo cazador de hombres." Only in the hottest years this happens. And this year, it grows hot. We begin finding our men. We found them sometimes without their skins... and sometimes much, much worse. "El cazador trofeo de los hombres" means the redhead who devours cake.

[RONIN]

2 hours ago, ludurigan said:

this is off topic but

do you really think that whoever went to Axl solo era concerts "kept the band alive"?

consider this "alternate reality" scenario

Guns n Roses implodes in the 90s. Axl Rose disappears from public sight. Never performs live again. In 2014, he joins Duff's band Loaded onstage. A few months later, Slash announces he is no longer in bad terms with Axl. a little later Coachella announces GNR "reunion" show.    

Do you think the GNR "reunion" shows/tour would be less successful in this scenario?

I wish he had done that. Imagine how much cooler it would have all been. Axl would have been frozen in time at his prime. No "Fat Elvis" phase where he's stumbling about on stage with cookie crumbs on his face in a yellow raincoat. Or Predator Axl in 2002. I started a thread some time back on this - what if Rose had basically retired in December 1994 after SFTD or even after those Vegas warmup shows in 2001/RIR 3. Honestly, the guy would have been a living legend. He already is, but his reputation would have been largely untarnished. The more time that goes by, the more the nu-guns years feels like a complete travesty.

35 minutes ago, FuriousStyles said:

[Top-Hatted One]

19 hours ago, F*ck Fear said:

Just another example of how cringe Guns N' Roses have become.

So sad and disheartening 

[ToonGuns]

Dear Guns N Roses,

I am a fan.

If you want to sell me shit for £1000 then give me 10% off my next purchase, sell me new music. I would then happily pay €260 for some fake tattoos or whatever.

That is all.

[SoulMonster]

Whether GN'R has approved of the marketing and prices, or are even aware of it, is hard to say. I personally don't think they are, but that  is just speculation. I believe they have empowered the label to handle this. And therein lies my criticism. Even if they don't oversee everything, and accept prices and wording in promotions etc, they are still responsible in the sense that they have given the label the right to do it this way. At some point they signed a contract that granted the label the right to do it this way. At some point they said, "We don't care enough about the details here, let's just let UMG handle it all". There was a point were they would take a more active role, when branding and PR and fans means more to them. When GN'R meant more to them. Now it is simply a milk cow.

Edited August 3, 2018 by SoulMonster

[F*ck Fear]

3 hours ago, RONIN said:

I wish he had done that. Imagine how much cooler it would have all been. Axl would have been frozen in time at his prime. No "Fat Elvis" phase where he's stumbling about on stage with cookie crumbs on his face in a yellow raincoat. Or Predator Axl in 2002. I started a thread some time back on this - what if Rose had basically retired in December 1994 after SFTD or even after those Vegas warmup shows in 2001/RIR 3. Honestly, the guy would have been a living legend. He already is, but his reputation would have been largely untarnished. The more time that goes by, the more the nu-guns years feels like a complete travesty.

To each their own.

I'm rather happy I got to see the different incarnations of the band throughout they years. He sounded better than he does now on some of those tours.

[donny]

5 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Whether GN'R has approved of the marketing and prices, or are even aware of it, is hard to say. I personally don't think they are, but that  is just speculation. I believe they have empowered the label to handle this. And therein lies my criticism. Even if they don't oversee everything, and accept prices and wording in promotions etc, they are still responsible in the sense that they have given the label the right to do it this way. At some point they signed a contract that granted the label the right to do it this way. At some point they said, "We don't care enough about the details here, let's just let UMG handle it all". There was a point were they would take a more active role, when branding and PR and fans means more to them. When GN'R meant more to them. Now it is simply a milk cow.

does it not contain photo's from Axl's personal collection in some book that came with it ?

if so then the band must have had a good bit of involvement in it.