"‘They Hid It All’: Catholic Priests Abused 1,000 Children in Pennsylvania, Report Says"

[SoulMonster]

Quote

Bishops and other leaders of the Roman Catholic Church in Pennsylvania covered up child sexual abuse by more than 300 priests over a period of 70 years, persuading victims not to report the abuse and law enforcement not to investigate it, according to a searing report issued by a grand jury on Tuesday.

The report, which covered six of the state’s eight Catholic dioceses and found more than 1,000 identifiable victims, is the broadest examination yet by a government agency in the United States of child sexual abuse in the Catholic Church. The report said there are likely thousands more victims whose records were lost or who were too afraid to come forward.

It catalogs horrific instances of abuse: a priest who raped a young girl in the hospital after she had her tonsils out; a victim tied up and whipped with leather straps by a priest; and another priest who was allowed to stay in ministry after impregnating a young girl and arranging for her to have an abortion.

The sexual abuse scandal has shaken the Catholic Church for more than 15 years, ever since explosive allegations emerged out of Boston in 2002. But even after paying billions of dollars in settlements and adding new prevention programs, the church has been dogged by a scandal that is now reaching its highest ranks. The Pennsylvania report comes soon after the resignation of Cardinal Theodore E. McCarrick, the former archbishop of Washington, who is accused of sexually abusing young priests and seminarians, as well as minors.

“Despite some institutional reform, individual leaders of the church have largely escaped public accountability,” the grand jury wrote. “Priests were raping little boys and girls, and the men of God who were responsible for them not only did nothing; they hid it all. For decades.”

The grand jury said that while some accused priests were removed from ministry, the church officials who protected them remained in office or even got promotions. One bishop named in the report as vouching for an abusive priest was Cardinal Donald Wuerl, now the archbishop of Washington. “Until that changes, we think it is too early to close the book on the Catholic Church sex scandal,” the jury wrote.

Read the rest of the story here in NY Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/14/us/catholic-church-sex-abuse-pennsylvania.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

[DieselDaisy]

You're back? Bored with Guns N' Roses?

Edited August 15, 2018 by DieselDaisy
Grammar.

[Gracii Guns]

This is the third item of related news which has been published in the last few weeks. It does break my heart that an institution which has brought me a unique joy and beauty, could also harbour the worst of criminals. 

As well as court-sanctioned justice being served, I’d like to see public acts of penance by priests and bishops for the wrongdoings of the church, throughout the world. 

These revelations hurt all Catholics deeply, especially those who are priests. It’s a burden they carry every day. 

The last time I discussed this topic, I explained that abusive priests weren’t dealt with “properly” in the 1970s, because the protocol at the time was to treat paedophilia as a psychological illness, so the church took psychiatrists’ advice on the matter. Of course, barely anything was known about mental health in the 70s. So here we are today. 

Also, someone on here once accused me of being pro-pardophilia because I choose to be Catholic. Anyone who thinks that can fuck off. I’m part of a family which has been torn apart from that type of crime. (Of the five paedophiles I’ve known, exactly zero were clergy). 

Edited August 15, 2018 by Gracii Guns

[Gracii Guns]

 

@Oldest Goat

To quote GK Chesterton “I do believe in Christianity, and my impression is that a system must be divine which has survived so much insane mismanagement”. 

You’re right though, changes need to happen, and in fact, have already happened as a result of earlier abuse revelations. The Catholic Church now sets a world-class standard of care for vulnerable people.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/do-the-right-thing/201003/six-myths-about-clergy-sexual-abuse-in-the-catholic-church

To be told that the Vatican is the most evil institution in the world, is just factually incorrect. Christianity in general is the most benevolent movement in the world, and you’re choosing to ignore the governments of countries with sticky human rights policies such as North Korea. I once visited the Vatican. I could have insulted the pope there if I felt like it, and wouldn’t have been executed. 

[soon]

44 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

normal folks need to realise that and create Catholicism 2.0

The Catholic Church has zero moral authority. They are a farce. Regardless of how many good people for god knows what reason follow them.

That would technically be Catholicism 3.0

https://www.npr.org/2012/10/10/162573716/why-is-vatican-ii-so-important

Individual Catholics organizing as activists 'against' the hierarchy is antithetical to the dogmatic imagination of mainstream Catholicism. Where the hierarchy dictates interpretation of Scripture, where the Curia defines what Catholic means, Bishops discern how to apply that to their flock, Priests - by way of confession, penance, baptism, etc - hold the key to Heaven, and the Pope speaks as the real time voice of God. Im not here to knock people for feeling called to/comfortable within a strict spiritual hierarchy, but to point out that individual Catholics can have very strong feelings and want change, but the nature of Catholicism its self doesnt lend much agency to the flock. I personally dont subscribe to it obviously, but again Im not judging it. Just observing it.

Vatican 2 was very much about reconciling outmoded Church thought with what all parishioners understood and accepted about modern life. The overlap of the venn diagram was stretched to to its limit and at risk of a disconnect. It was a mass movement that was lead 'by the times' much more then activism or calls for reform - it simply needed to adjust.

So I think that the most effective call to action a Catholic parishioner can make is to give voice to these court cases. Use their social media platform's to spread documentation that the World produces. The idea being that this too can hit a critical mass where the world view of the individual Catholics is at risk of being too out of sink with the hierarchy, prompting the Hierarchy to reform. And Im buoyed to see that happening right here in this thread!

The other routes of activism within the Church produces Luther's and Romero's, Catholic Workers and ELZN's. None of which have achieved much in the sense of major structural changes in the Catholic Hierarchy.

[Len Cnut]

Quote

I can tell you're a good person @Gracii Guns

She's not y'know, she done a shit in a wheelie bin once.

[Gracii Guns]

9 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

She's not y'know, she done a shit in a wheelie bin once.

It’s not *technically* a sin.

[Dazey]

1 minute ago, Gracii Guns said:

It’s not *technically* a sin.

Only cos wheelie bins weren't invented when the Bible was made up.

[soon]

6 minutes ago, Gracii Guns said:

It’s not *technically* a sin.

LOL!!! Finally I know what I want my tattoo to be! 

[DieselDaisy]

Somebody post the Simpsons repetition gif?

Soul is absent at his own party!

 

[downzy]

At this point, what is even the point of having the Church around?  Burn it all down and let people read their bibles on their own.  

[SoulMonster]

11 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Somebody post the Simpsons repetition gif?

Soul is absent at his own party!

Well, I am speechless. What is there to say, really, that hasn't been said already?

[Kwick1]

I don't know who said Christianity is one of the most benevolent movements in the world but that is a farce. Wars have been fought and bloodshed continues today over Christianity and organized Religion. Christianity may try to look like a kind and benevolent movement but one doesn't have to look too far or deep into history to see that it's not. 

[Len Cnut]

12 minutes ago, Kwick1 said:

I don't know who said Christianity is one of the most benevolent movements in the world but that is a farce. Wars have been fought and bloodshed continues today over Christianity and organized Religion.

Wars tend to be fought over money, power, religion is just a smokescreen, religion is just the shit they use to get poor people onside, cuz they ain't got no money or power to be fighting for.  Wars are fought over democracy too allegedly, a great many of which people would call unjust, does that mean democracy is unjust or just people doing shit in its name thats unjust?

I think its easy to blame religion but, as with most things, there is a lot of grey area there. 

[Gibson87]

This is a big part of why I'm not a practicing Catholic anymore.

[Kwick1]

@Len Cnut, you're right. Wars are usually fought over another having something that is wanted by others. The act of going in and taking that resource has to be disguised as more a movement for the greater good and Religion is often how to accomplish. 

[SoulMonster]

26 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Wars tend to be fought over money, power, religion is just a smokescreen, religion is just the shit they use to get poor people onside, cuz they ain't got no money or power to be fighting for. 

You are right in that religion is usually not the main reason behind wars, but we also have to point out that plenty of wars have been motivated mainly by religious differences, just like many terrorist attacks are also mainly motivated by religion. Don't get me wrong, religions is not the main reasons why we humans fight, and you list other reasons too, but it would be very strange indeed if such a mover of minds as religion wouldn't be able to bring out the worst in something as fragile as us humans. 

[Len Cnut]

20 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

You are right in that religion is usually not the main reason behind wars, but we also have to point out that plenty of wars have been motivated mainly by religious differences, just like many terrorist attacks are also mainly motivated by religion. Don't get me wrong, religions is not the main reasons why we humans fight, and you list other reasons too, but it would be very strange indeed if such a mover of minds as religion wouldn't be able to bring out the worst in something as fragile as us humans. 

The motivation that the stupid cunts that strap the bombs on themselves is religion sure...but I don't think religion is for the organisations (or even nations) that they fall for.  And if religion weren't there then there'd be any number of other reasons to take its place and most times they do anyway.  Like your flag for instance, its the same sort of thing innit, an American or a Brit or an Albanian or a...Tongonese dying for his or her flag, it amounts to the same thing to me, it represents a way of life and a set of beliefs and you lay your life down for it. 

[EvanG]

I think every sane person on here will agree on the fact that religions have done more damage than good throughout history. Let people believe what they want to believe, but let's cut the crap with these institutions. It's an old fashioned concept. And while we're on the subject of old fashioned concepts, let's also quit monarchies. I'm tired of paying for the salaries and extras of those idiotic royals with my tax money. It's time to end this insanity, it's 2018.

[soon]

8 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I think every sane person on here will agree on the fact that religions have done more damage than good throughout history. Let people believe what they want to believe, but let's cut the crap with these institutions. It's an old fashioned concept. And while we're on the subject of old fashioned concepts, let's also quit monarchies. I'm tired of paying for the salaries and extras of those idiotic royals with my tax money. It's time to end this insanity, it's 2018.

Lets give up the State too - the leading cause of premature death among humans!

[SoulMonster]

53 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

The motivation that the stupid cunts that strap the bombs on themselves is religion sure...but I don't think religion is for the organisations (or even nations) that they fall for.  And if religion weren't there then there'd be any number of other reasons to take its place and most times they do anyway.  Like your flag for instance, its the same sort of thing innit, an American or a Brit or an Albanian or a...Tongonese dying for his or her flag, it amounts to the same thing to me, it represents a way of life and a set of beliefs and you lay your life down for it. 

Whatever helps to create an "us vs them" mentality can lead to violence and wars. It comes down to group thinking, we are evolved to protect our group against strangers from other groups. Wired for xenophobia. Ethnicity, religion, culture, patriotism, football teams, ideology, etc, are all some prime identifiers that we use to establish group belonging, and any of these may trigger aggression leading to violence and wars. 

So, yes, it shouldn't be surprising at all that any of these prime identifiers may be partly or mainly the reason why we do bad things to others. They triggers our latent animosity towards people who are different. Then of course some religions exploit this inherent aspect of human nature by being openly hostile and aggressive towards other religions. In fact, one might consider such a trait of religion an adaption that makes that religion more fit to survive in a world of religious competition. Those religions that demand of their followers to not only be true to that particular religion, but also fight other religions (whether peacefully through missionary activity or more directly aggressively), will tend to survive over time by outcompeting the others. 

[EvanG]

2 minutes ago, soon said:

Lets give up the State too - the leading cause of premature death among humans!

I'm down with that! Think of the possibilities.

[Len Cnut]

40 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Whatever helps to create an "us vs them" mentality can lead to violence and wars. It comes down to group thinking, we are evolved to protect our group against strangers from other groups. Wired for xenophobia. Ethnicity, religion, culture, patriotism, football teams, ideology, etc, are all some prime identifiers that we use to establish group belonging, and any of these may trigger aggression leading to violence and wars. 

So, yes, it shouldn't be surprising at all that any of these prime identifiers may be partly or mainly the reason why we do bad things to others. They triggers our latent animosity towards people who are different. Then of course some religions exploit this inherent aspect of human nature by being openly hostile and aggressive towards other religions. In fact, one might consider such a trait of religion an adaption that makes that religion more fit to survive in a world of religious competition. Those religions that demand of their followers to not only be true to that particular religion, but also fight other religions (whether peacefully through missionary activity or more directly aggressively), will tend to survive over time by outcompeting the others. 

And clearly they have as well.  Survived over time I mean.

[Len Cnut]

53 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I think every sane person on here will agree on the fact that religions have done more damage than good throughout history. Let people believe what they want to believe, but let's cut the crap with these institutions. It's an old fashioned concept. And while we're on the subject of old fashioned concepts, let's also quit monarchies. I'm tired of paying for the salaries and extras of those idiotic royals with my tax money. It's time to end this insanity, it's 2018.

I’m not sure that they have done more harm than good.  It seems an incredibly difficult thing to quantify.  Even if one was to take a hardline view and look at religion as unevolved backward bronze age thing that we should’ve grown out of the very fact that it was an evolutionary step at all surely makes it hugely important.

43 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I'm down with that! Think of the possibilities.

Shit, people can’t even handle immigration yet, slow down

[soon]

45 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

 

Shit, people can’t even handle immigration yet, slow down

I guess one could say that anti-immigrant sentiment and xenophobia are a result of Nationalism? So without the State fuelling Nationalism, the problem of nativism could be worked through and put to rest.