Why didn't TWAT and Catcher debut during the 2002 tour?

[Stro]

They were some of the earliest songs recorded for Chinese, before SOD, Madagascar, Riad and I believe even Chinese itself. Has there ever been any discussion as to why Axl waited until 2006 for those to debut live? Were they even part of an alt set list in 2002?

[Gibson87]

Who knows. I heard that Catcher wasn't even supposed to be on the album though.

[Stoymatic]

I wouldn't want my whole album to be heard before releasing it. That was a fun part about buying a new album, hearing songs by the band that you had never heard before. 

Going to the record store, finding the album you wanted, ripping off the cellophane before getting into your car, popping the cd in, and hearing brand new jams that you have been so excited to hear! Ohhhh those were there days......

[Gordon Comstock]

1 hour ago, Stro said:

They were some of the earliest songs recorded for Chinese, before SOD, Madagascar, Riad and I believe even Chinese itself. Has there ever been any discussion as to why Axl waited until 2006 for those to debut live? Were they even part of an alt set list in 2002?

Catcher wasn't played until 2009. In an early 2006 Rolling Stone interview, I'm pretty sure Axl said his favourite tracks were Better, The Blues & TWAT. So that'd explain why they played TWAT a couple times.

I'm honestly more surprised they didn't play Prostitute, given that Axl used to tease it before NR. But I think the leaks probably dictated most of what happened with the album and the tour/setlist. Prostitute and Riad were alt's on the 2006 tour, though. Anybody still have that setlist picture?

1 hour ago, Gibson_Guy87 said:

Who knows. I heard that Catcher wasn't even supposed to be on the album though.

It was Dizzy who said, in I think 2004-5 on MTV, that Riad, CITR and Silkworms wouldn't be on the album.

[IncitingChaos]

Axl envisioned winning album of the year as CITR played in the background as he went on stage to accept his first Grammy...he didn’t want to ruin it too early 

[Gordon Comstock]

19 minutes ago, Wagszilla said:

Riad, If The World, and Prostitute were all on the 2006 setlist.

We of course didn't know about the latter two as being the Band Jam and Piano Intro back then.

I don't think I've seen a setlist picture from 2001-2002. Maybe Rio but I don't think so. 

Catcher was originally supposed to be on the 3rd album per a fan source. 

Of course, Brother Pitman.

 

Thanks! I was actually thinking of a different one though, I think it was posted on the official gnr site in 2006.

[Gordon Comstock]

Just now, Wagszilla said:

The above was the one posted on the GNR site in 2006.

I cannot recall another. 

It also had Perfect Crime on it, but it was a closer/angled pic, mostly showing the 2nd page I think. I was sure the one above was posted on the forums and the one I'm remembering was on the official site but I guess I have that backwards.

[appetite4illusions]

Per Catcher, I think he didn't want to debut it because it wasn't done then. He knew Brian May wasn't going to make the final cut and the lead guitar was still up in the air.

TWAT is, apparently a very vocally demanding song. I've got a soundboard bootleg from some year in Tokyo. Fernando calls out for TWAT and Axl makes a comment that he is really trying to screw him up.

[Gordon Comstock]

2 minutes ago, Wagszilla said:

5th up from bottom 

The other most infamous setlist pic I remember is Rock In Rio 2011

Yea I noticed that set had Perfect Crime, ITW, I actually remember that specific pic because of 'Sway' but it's not the other one I'm thinking of. I'll see if I can find it, it's not the Rio one I'm thinking of.

[appetite4illusions]

2 minutes ago, Wagszilla said:

The Catcher story kind of confuses me how much Brian did on the song.

Robin recorded it before so they could at minimum do his version. It didn't stop them from doing Oh My God, either. 

Brian recorded every note of his solo, but every note was manipulated, arranged and composed by Sean Beaven. So, you could say Sean and Axl wrote the solo. Whatever the means they used to track it made it unusable later on the Roy Thomas Baker mixes. Not that I understand why, but it seems to be what kept that and the Atlas Shrugged guitar off their respected songs.

As far as Oh My God, I think Catcher meant a lot more to him than OMG and he wanted to figure it out. Ron ended up being all over it and in 2002 Ron was four years out from joining the band.

[Wabby]

24 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

Yea I noticed that set had Perfect Crime, ITW, I actually remember that specific pic because of 'Sway' but it's not the other one I'm thinking of. I'll see if I can find it, it's not the Rio one I'm thinking of.

I don’t remember “Sway”, was that a cover?

Edited August 25, 2018 by Wabby
Never mind found it on YouTube with Izzy

[mikeman5150]

3 minutes ago, Wabby said:

I don’t remember “Sway”, was that a cover?

Me either. Does anybody know anything about it?

[BlueJean Baby]

 

[RONIN]

I've always wondered why Buckethead isn't featured on Catcher in the Rye. That's an old song well within Bucket's time in the band. 

Why give that song to Bumble when you had Bucket in the band? Knowing how highly Axl regards Buckethead - it's an odd omission. I wonder if Axl changed his mind again and replaced Bucket with Bumble at the 11th hour. Didn't Bumblefoot mention in an old interview that he barely had any time to record his parts for CITR and that he tried to do the best he could? If my memory is correct here - what a shame that he had to rush his work...

[Caught_in_a_Coma]

Speaking of, those two songs are absolutely fantastic

[©GnrPersia]

6 hours ago, Wagszilla said:

Of course, Brother Pitman.

 

This is from 2010-2014.

Blah

Blah

Used To Love Her

Sway

Perfect Crime* (*prep 10 tanks of Oxygen + Ambulance within 10cm from the stage)

Blah

Blah

[Kardeshma]

So how come that Perfect Crime seems to be on every alternative setlist but has never been played in the last 18 years?

[zombux]

7 hours ago, Wagszilla said:

Riad, If The World, and Prostitute were all on the 2006 setlist.

We of course didn't know about the latter two as being the Band Jam and Piano Intro back then.

I don't think I've seen a setlist picture from 2001-2002. Maybe Rio but I don't think so. 

Catcher was originally supposed to be on the 3rd album per a fan source. 

Of course, Brother Pitman.

 

this might be a clear miss, but aren't those alternate tracks just the solos and jams? because in 2006, they did some instrumental jam between songs, that later turned out to be ITW. and Axl has been playing piano parts of Prostitute since 2002.

[jamillos]

Perfect Crime 2002. Even my keyboard seems confused typing that. 

Here's a new theoretical gem for/from the hoarders: get some 2002 rehearsal/studio recording of PC (no, not Paradise City) (maybe done just in terms of re-recording UYIs for the sake of the new guys).

Edited August 25, 2018 by jamillos

[GNR 1991]

1 hour ago, ©GnrPersia said:

This is from 2010-2014.

Nope, that's from 2006.

It's strange that the band played considerably less new material in 2002 than 2001 (no OMG, Silkworms and Riad only played five times out of 22 shows). There are some 2002 shows where only two CD songs are played. A snippet of Prostitute was of course played before NR, but nobody knew what that was back then. I think TWAT and Prostitute were considered the big guns and they were maybe being saved for the rest of the cancelled US shows into 2003. Seeing Bucket play his solo on TWAT live now is only but a dream sadly.

I think someone else hit the nail on the head for Catcher and the Brian May situation. By the time the 2002 shows started, Axl had already been done w/ May's contributions and had no guitar solo for that song until Ron recorded one in 2006/7. By the time the 2006 tour came around after the leaks, it was obvious at that point that this band was not gonna play unheard material as they played all three leaks at Hammerstein minus Catcher (still no solo).

[GNR 1991]

5 minutes ago, jamillos said:

Perfect Crime 2002. Even my keyboard seems confused typing that. 

Here's a new theoretical gem for/from the hoarders: get some 2002 rehearsal/studio recording of PC (no, not Paradise City) (maybe done just in terms of re-recording UYIs for the sake of the new guys).

Perfect Crime was never going to be played live in 2002. That setlist is from 2006.

In 2002, GnR only played 2 songs from BOTH UYI albums (November Rain and You Could Be Mine, not counting the two covers). It seems like Axl didn't care to play any more than the 2 songs off UYI from 2001 all the way into Bumblefoot bringing back Don't Cry in 2006/7. Very AFD heavy sets during the 2001-2, 2006-7 eras. Seems like that material was being buried for whatever reason.

[jamillos]

2 hours ago, GNR 1991 said:

Perfect Crime was never going to be played live in 2002. That setlist is from 2006.

In 2002, GnR only played 2 songs from BOTH UYI albums (November Rain and You Could Be Mine, not counting the two covers). It seems like Axl didn't care to play any more than the 2 songs off UYI from 2001 all the way into Bumblefoot bringing back Don't Cry in 2006/7. Very AFD heavy sets during the 2001-2, 2006-7 eras. Seems like that material was being buried for whatever reason.

Sure but I think I've seen a 2002 playlist w/ PC on it. It's engraved in my mind. Is it possible that I really am wrong on this one then? 

[©GnrPersia]

11 hours ago, IncitingChaos said:

Axl envisioned winning album of the year as CITR played in the background as he went on stage to accept his first Grammy...he didn’t want to ruin it too early 

To be honest there could be a chance of Grammy or something had it been released by 2001 or 2...

Edited August 25, 2018 by ©GnrPersia