Interview: Slash Admits Guns N’ Roses’ Songs Are ‘Sort of Sexist’

[Tori72]

39 minutes ago, Powderfinger said:

This is not to condone any of the more obviously misogynistic lyrics, but the planet was a completely different place in 1987. The world today and then are incomparable. 

What band today would have strippers on stage, the strippers being the girlfriends of band members, it was a lifestyle. I don’t disrespect them because they had their tits out on stage and I don’t think they were exploited either.

And reading Marc’s book it seems the women themselves didn’t feel exploited and just were part of a group of people and friends around the band helping build hype.

Marc gave cash, Desi went onstage in fishnets. Fine. People fuck. Fine.

The Sex Pistols had plenty of the same GNR did in their run as a band, bondage, strippers, prostitutes, naked chicks on records, stripper girlfriends, heroin.

Nirvana, stripper wife, junkies, domestic abuse reports, but it’s not commented on really because punk and grunge are seen as more “enlightened” , the guns era will be judged harshly in the modern era.

I’m all for outing any fuck that crosses the line, but don’t point the finger at people who indulged in the way everyone did equally at a point in time. It can’t be judged by today’s standards.

 

There’s nothing wrong with having your tits out being on stage or anywhere else - if it is your choice. There’s nothing wrong with tits altogether. lol. I’m sure the girls dancing on stage for GnR were fine with all that. I never questioned that and it is not what the lyrics discussion was about. This is not about individual situations or decisions, this is about lyrics and society.

The dancing half naked on stage or the whole lifestyle scene around GnR might have been on everyone’s free will. Still, the reason why those women were dancing on stage and why the guys were thinking this would built up hype happens within sexist structures of thinking, of how gender and society work. etc. etc.  Not the individual act or decision might be based on sexism (we assume) but the structural context where it happens, is.

Anyway. Being in a scene when things like that are ok is one thing. Writing lyrics in a certain tone, with certain words, indications etc. etc. is another thing. Lyrics might be inspired by a lifestyle but there are not a diary or a recipe, they’re not the situation it happend. They’re a piece of art and thus reflect something more than just an individual scene. So yeah, the lyrics are sexism.

About the censoring question: To change lyrics is solely the decision of the artist. You can discuss ideas about that in articles but it is not a question of "should“. Censoring art is always terrible.  Also me as fan or listener can decide to listen to certain songs (or bands) or not. 

[WhazUp]

Now correct me if I am wrong, but is the issue more with the words used rather than the intent, in the GNR songs in question?  For example Back off Bitch, obviously calling a woman a bitch in such a way would not and does not fly in 2018.  

But you have songs where the phrasing like that is a bit off, but the meanings don't seem malicious - I agree with Slash.  In "It's So Easy", to me I always thought the song itself was written from the perspective of heavy excess and how it changes a person's mind for the worse (drunk driving like its nothing, using girls for sex, etc.).  In Back off Bitch it is angrily dealing with things, but not necessarily objectifying - just saying things in a very un-elegant way for lack of a better term lol.  

Where yeah, you have your Anything Goes and Pretty Tied Up, however both involving consensual stuff right?

 

So at least that is my personal take on it.  That it is more or less the phrases and words themselves rather than intent, which is in question here.  So yeah it is tricky, and I agree with Slash when he says "sort of".  And at least from my perspective, none of those things are really THAT big of a deal

Edited September 26, 2018 by WhazUp

[Azifwekare]

20 hours ago, soon said:

If one single article from a second tier outlet gets you that worked up, looks like we are dealing with multiple generations of pussies.

What I find fascinating is that people actively choose to participate in a discussion that only serves to get them riled up. It would be funny if it weren't so desperately sad.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Azifwekare

[Azifwekare]

1 hour ago, Oldest Goat said:

Speaking for myself, I sometimes focus on topics which rile me up because *drumroll* I genuinely care. At least enough to debate and try and change folks minds a bit. I'm sorry if that's not cool enough for you lol but if I was the type of person to wither up and only speak when it's easy when it's to try and make myself appear holier than thou, smugly conveying an opinion as limp and pedestrian as "No-No words are bad you guys. See how evolved and mature I am!?" I'd feel like that's desperately sad.

 

 

Debating a topic you care about and simply getting angry and defensive when people disagree with you are two completely different things. 

[EvanG]

11 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

On a scale from 1 to 10 how angry and defensive are you imagining I am?

I always imagine you to be screaming at your screen, hitting your fists on the keyboard, and always close to throwing your computer out of the window while posting here. No?

[EvanG]

Just now, Oldest Goat said:

Fuck off, Evan. 

If you're serious though that makes me feel bad tbh.

No, man... I'm just joking, as far as I'm concerned you're one of the more mellow posters on here.

[EvanG]

Just now, Oldest Goat said:

*my sarcasm detector explodes* 

No really, you seem like a chill guy, someone I wouldn't mind hanging out with in real life, unlike some posters on here. No sarcasm.

[Ratam]

15 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Cheers mate. Likewise.

Don't worry@Oldest Goat you are one of more cool forum member 👍

[Tori72]

Why is everybody now telling @Oldest Goat he was chill? 

[EvanG]

14 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

Why is everybody now telling @Oldest Goat he was chill? 

I haven't read the conversation in this thread, but I was talking about my overall impression of him on here... which is a funny and likeable poster.... especially for someone from New Zealand. Sorry, I just had to.

[marlingrl03]

12 hours ago, Ratam said:

Don't worry@Oldest Goat you are one of more cool forum member 👍

Agree with you there! Goat rocks. 😎

[Nintari]

On 9/21/2018 at 3:56 PM, killuridols said:

I can live without either of them.... especially Used To Love Her.

I didn't sing it when they played it on my show. Actually, I remained standing up with my arms crossed

I find it odd that you'd pay money and/or support a band that clearly has views the opposite of your own. It's like eating fried chicken while tossing a bucket of blood on the president of Tyson.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Nintari

[soon]

2 hours ago, Nintari said:

I find it odd that you'd pay money and/or support a band that clearly has views the opposite of your own. It's like eating fried chicken while tossing a bucket of blood on the president of Tyson.

Because someone could "live without" 2 songs you dont get how they are still a big fan? Thats so deeply puritanical.

I could live with out Don't Cry and My World 

[Ratam]

8 hours ago, marlingrl03 said:

Agree with you there! Goat rocks. 😎

Yeah!! Now are two @Oldest Goat fans!!where is @Italian girl❓

[Azifwekare]

3 hours ago, Nintari said:

I find it odd that you'd pay money and/or support a band that clearly has views the opposite of your own. It's like eating fried chicken while tossing a bucket of blood on the president of Tyson.

I'm a fan of Eminem but I don't want to murder my wife or rape my mother. I'm a fan of hip hop in general but I'm not into weed and 'sizzurp'. I'm a fan of Jamaican dancehall, but I'm not homophobic. I'm a fan of Rammstein/Lindemann but cannibalism, dead children and golden showers aren't my idea of a good time. Just in the same way as someone can enjoy OIAM, for example, without being a racist.

I even enjoy some Christian and Muslim music, even though I'm not religious. 

So yes, it is possible for someone to use discretion and acknowledge stuff they don't necessarily agree with but still enjoy the music anyway, without swinging into the extreme of 'OMG they said something I don't like so I HATE THAT BAND!'.

It's that point that seems to be the thing that leads to most disagreements/arguments/general confusion on this thread and causes any kind of discussion on the subject to go around in circles.

[Italian girl]

1 hour ago, Ratam said:

Yeah!! Now are two @Oldest Goat fans!!where is @Italian girl❓

 

1 hour ago, Oldest Goat said:

P.S. Without a doubt, the North Pole.

here I am

[Ratam]

2 hours ago, Italian girl said:

 

here I am

Here the three @Oldest Goatfan!!👍

[Nintari]

8 hours ago, Azifwekare said:

I'm a fan of Eminem but I don't want to murder my wife or rape my mother. I'm a fan of hip hop in general but I'm not into weed and 'sizzurp'. I'm a fan of Jamaican dancehall, but I'm not homophobic. I'm a fan of Rammstein/Lindemann but cannibalism, dead children and golden showers aren't my idea of a good time. Just in the same way as someone can enjoy OIAM, for example, without being a racist.

I even enjoy some Christian and Muslim music, even though I'm not religious. 

So yes, it is possible for someone to use discretion and acknowledge stuff they don't necessarily agree with but still enjoy the music anyway, without swinging into the extreme of 'OMG they said something I don't like so I HATE THAT BAND!'.

It's that point that seems to be the thing that leads to most disagreements/arguments/general confusion on this thread and causes any kind of discussion on the subject to go around in circles.

I understand what you're saying but the point I'm trying to make is, if someone listens to Eminem or Guns N Roses or whatever... they know what this stuff is, or at least should anyway after a few listens. If they don't like it, then why in the hell would they keep listening to it? Why buy tickets? I just don't understand. 

It seems like it would be more logical to either move on and emotionally disinvest or stay offended and leave entirely. Staying a supporter of someone or something that, day in and day out offends you... man, I just don't understand that. It's like, why would you wanna live that way? I know I wouldn't. 

[Azifwekare]

49 minutes ago, Nintari said:

I understand what you're saying but the point I'm trying to make is, if someone listens to Eminem or Guns N Roses or whatever... they know what this stuff is, or at least should anyway after a few listens. If they don't like it, then why in the hell would they keep listening to it? Why buy tickets? I just don't understand. 

It seems like it would be more logical to either move on and emotionally disinvest or stay offended and leave entirely. Staying a supporter of someone or something that, day in and day out offends you... man, I just don't understand that. It's like, why would you wanna live that way? I know I wouldn't. 

I know that that stuff is offensive, but it doesn't offend or upset me personally (Believe it not, but it's hard to offend me ). I still know that it's "wrong", but the music is good enough to make me stick around. I don't really get what people find so complicated about that. I'm sure that's probably the same for others genuinely interested in discussing this aspect of the lyrics.

The point is that it isn't as black and white as "that music is 'bad' so I ain't listening". Everyone has different reactions/feelings/thresholds/opinions etc. Some people may find the lyrics to some of the stuff I mentioned horrifying and never take a second listen, that's fair enough. Some people may say "those lyrics are disgusting, but that beat is hella tight", and that's OK too. Some people may not care at all and simply enjoy the melody/rhythm/overall production. Also fine.

Simply put, it doesn't have to be one way or another, and listeners shouldn't be forced to choose between two extremes. 

I don't understand why some people are in so many words saying "If you like the songs you shouldn't care about the lyrics, and if you care about the lyrics you shouldn't be listening to the song". I'll listen to whatever I damn well please and have whatever opinion I want on it.

Half of the people here want to discuss a particular aspect of the lyrics they find interesting, and the other half just want to stifle that conversation. They mock, trivialise or just simply react with anger towards some leftie snowflake boogeyman invented in their own mind.

It would be like people starting a thread where they talk about Robin/Bucket/Brain & co's contributions to the band (good and bad), and another bunch of people replying with "You care about Axl's solo band? Laaaaame. This is a GN'R forum, what are you doing here?" And then a few other people reacting with boiling rage that Axl had the nerve to dabble with electronic music and are personally offended by the fact that people actually had the audacity to enjoy it. Oh wait... 

 

Sorry for the long post, only the first paragraph was actually in response to your post, but it kinda just lead itself into other related thoughts  

[Azifwekare]

A bit OT, but just something silly to lighten the mood...

I mentioned earlier in the thread that I usually listen to an edit of OIAM - that kind of reminds me of when I was a kid (I was still in school at the time, gimme a break lol) and Rob Zombie released his version of Brickhouse. I edited it to take out all the porno noises and (very poorly) replaced it with the instrumental from the original Commodores version .

It made me kind of uncomfortable listening to it, and I sure as hell couldn't play it in public, but it was a damn good song and so I wasn't going to let anything get the way of me enjoying it 

[Azifwekare]

7 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

The slippery slope of political correctness is unfortunately very real and not just some melodramatic leftist bogeyman concept. I wouldn't say it's only possible from the left though. But I see where you're coming from now that you've back-peddled a bit and yeah of course discussion and critiquing must be allowed. 

If you don't want to be mocked don't go around saying silly things like "This is how it is and it can't be interpreted otherwise or you're not mature and evolved like me." LOL.

Obviously, things like sexism aren't to be tolerated. It's against logic/reason and very hateful and toxic. It's truly baffling. That's an extremely basic principle though, to the extent I find it almost boring to express because I assume, aside from like swamp people in the Bible belt or some Middle Eastern desert, we all share and understand that value. 

IF something is sexist, it's bad. 

I think we can all agree murder is bad. But if someone goes around preaching "Don't do murder. Don't do murder. Don't do murder. Don't do murder. Shake my hand or you must be a murderer." That undeniably good value quickly sounds like insanity. 

P.S. Saying all that. I can accept someone thinking something like Pretty Tied Up is rude or juvenile.

I never said the whole "you're not mature and evolved like me" thing - what I assume you're referring to is when I mentioned that what we would usually find unacceptable is the sort of stuff that probably would have flown over our heads when we were younger (when most of us would have first gotten into GN'R, I'm assuming). 

But yeah, I 100% get what you're saying. 

Edit: Like I said earlier, this thread seems to be going round in circles, hence why people keep making fundamental 'that's bad, m'kay' points 

Edited September 28, 2018 by Azifwekare

[killuridols]

On 27/9/2018 at 6:21 AM, Nintari said:

I find it odd that you'd pay money and/or support a band that clearly has views the opposite of your own. It's like eating fried chicken while tossing a bucket of blood on the president of Tyson.

Do they? What views are those? LOL

If it's odd what I do then how do you call the people who go to their show just to listen to the 'hit songs' but when 'Coma' or 'This I Love' come on, they leave for the bathroom or for a beer?

It's like buying a pack of Oreos just to eat the filling and throw the rest.

[Nintari]

On 10/3/2018 at 9:57 AM, killuridols said:

Do they? What views are those? LOL

If it's odd what I do then how do you call the people who go to their show just to listen to the 'hit songs' but when 'Coma' or 'This I Love' come on, they leave for the bathroom or for a beer?

It's like buying a pack of Oreos just to eat the filling and throw the rest.

What would I call those people? I'd call them casuals. The type of people who went to the show during DJ era and thought he was Slash because all they know of Guns N Roses is a name and a few hits that they heard back in high school.

[killuridols]

3 hours ago, Nintari said:

What would I call those people? I'd call them casuals. The type of people who went to the show during DJ era and thought he was Slash because all they know of Guns N Roses is a name and a few hits that they heard back in high school.

Yeah, and they also pay a full ticket to enjoy/listen to less than half of the show and I don't see anyone questioning their motives for attending it.