Interview: Slash Admits Guns N’ Roses’ Songs Are ‘Sort of Sexist’

[Azifwekare]

3 hours ago, RussTCB said:

I just realized something-

I bet the current social climate means there's absolutely zero chance of us ever hearing Pretty Tied Up again.

 

Whats a bummer! 

I'm pretty sure they don't care - if they want to play it again, they will. It hasn't stopped them playing any other songs. Which is a good thing because it's a fucking tune.

[killuridols]

Omg dont worry about setlists because these dinosaurs aren't changing anything. It's 2018 and they re-released AFD with all the mysoginist lines untouched and plus a bunch of lame ass posters.

The only thing they had to give up was OIAM but I guess that one was out of the way since it was released.... so..... It's like people know they are grandpas with that set of mind and well, they are tolerated because I dont know why, lol.... only time will tell...

Edited September 22, 2018 by killuridols

[Silverburst80]

4 hours ago, RussTCB said:

I just realized something-

I bet the current social climate means there's absolutely zero chance of us ever hearing Pretty Tied Up again.

 

Whats a bummer! 

Don't see why thats a sexist song, its lyrics refer to a dominatrix.

[soon]

5 hours ago, RussTCB said:

I just realized something-

I bet the current social climate means there's absolutely zero chance of us ever hearing Pretty Tied Up again.

 

Whats a bummer! 

Why do you say that? I don't understand?

[killuridols]

30 minutes ago, Silverburst80 said:

Don't see why thats a sexist song, its lyrics refer to a dominatrix.

A dominatrix would be pretty tied up hanging upside down? 

Quite the opposite! 

[Silverburst80]

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

A dominatrix would be pretty tied up hanging upside down? 

Quite the opposite! 

Hey the guy who wrote it says it's inspired by a dominatrix, in any case it's not sexist....sexually explicit but not sexist. I'd say the same about Anything Goes.

[RussTCB]

2 hours ago, Silverburst80 said:

Don't see why thats a sexist song, its lyrics refer to a dominatrix.

Because in today's hyper-judgemental-over-react-first-ask-questions-later society, people never pay attention to the actual context of something before accusing people 

[RONIN]

It's interesting to me how a lot of the UYI material is actually more juvenile and laden with misogyny than the Appetite stuff. It's like some weird bifurcation took place in Axl's personality where his mature side (Estranged) needed to be balanced out by the childish (Shotgun Blues). Appetite is so much more uniform in that regard. 

[Silverburst80]

23 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Because in today's hyper-judgemental-over-react-first-ask-questions-later society, people never pay attention to the actual context of something before accusing people 

Well this is true unfortunately

[-W.A.R-]

How is Pretty Tied Up any different than 50 Shades?

[Blackstar]

1 hour ago, RONIN said:

It's interesting to me how a lot of the UYI material is actually more juvenile and laden with misogyny than the Appetite stuff. It's like some weird bifurcation took place in Axl's personality where his mature side (Estranged) needed to be balanced out by the childish (Shotgun Blues). Appetite is so much more uniform in that regard. 

This was mainly because most of those songs were older, pre- and AFD era, like Back Off Bitch, You Could Be Mine etc. The only post AFD songs that fall in the "immature" category were Shotgun Blues, Get In The Ring and some Izzy songs.

From a quote I posted a few pages back it's evident that Axl was totally aware of the "duality" and it was a conscious choice.

[soon]

Verse one of PTI is about a kinky women who Guns is both excited by and (potentially) derogatory of. Verse two is about how dumb guns is and how shady the biz is. The chorus just rattles off a description of a BDSM scene. I don't know who would potentially find that outrageous?

Its not only about The Secretary and 50 Shades anymore. Culturally we are already onto things like Book Club staring Fonda, Keaton, Bergen and Steenburgen, depicting the older generations catching up with the younger generations regarding kink:

 

I hope these non-sexual, non-nude, non-age-restricted, educational YT vids can help clear up any issues about how normal and mainstream kink is

 

 

Edited September 23, 2018 by soon
got verses confused

[killuridols]

9 hours ago, Silverburst80 said:

Hey the guy who wrote it says it's inspired by a dominatrix, in any case it's not sexist....sexually explicit but not sexist. I'd say the same about Anything Goes.

Then he is ignorant as fuck and was trying to cover his ass thinking the rest of us wouldnt know the meaning 

I can't tell if the first verses and chorus are sexist. It could be talking about someone who engages in BDSM, but the words of disdain about the woman who does this, tells me those lines are mysoginist.

Also because people who engage in those practises do it for pleasure and fun, not to cause harm on others. 

 

[killuridols]

8 hours ago, -W.A.R- said:

How is Pretty Tied Up any different than 50 Shades?

The lines in PTU are ignorant about the practice, like most of GN'R lyrics.

If you're really into it you wouldn't call someone who does it "an insane bitch".

Check what  @soon just posted, the BDSM 101 video. It is explained very well.

Edited September 23, 2018 by killuridols

[soon]

42 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Then he is ignorant as fuck and was trying to cover his ass thinking the rest of us wouldnt know the meaning 

I can't tell if the first verses and chorus are sexist. It could be talking about someone who engages in BDSM, but the words of disdain about the woman who does this, tells me those lines are mysoginist.

Also because people who engage in those practises do it for pleasure and fun, not to cause harm on others. 

 

Good points. I think the 'bitch is just insane' kinda snuck by me. If it werent Guns Id take the time to think through how Humiliation and aggressive Dirty Talk could also be a wanted part of the scene. But its Guns. Also he's saying that outside of the scene to someone who isnt involved.

I was always surprised by the Izzy anecdote about seeing the dominatrix because he comes across as so naive and giddy about it. I think youre right, it really does seem that he and Axl have uneducated and wrong headed attitudes about kink when they recorded it.

Although thinking on the spot here, maybe the mystery of why does he say "cool ranch dressing" could be explained if that is Izzy or Axls' safe word? Doesn't that seem like a perfect safe word for a midwesterner? So they at least maybe knew about the importance of safe words, lol?

[killuridols]

54 minutes ago, soon said:

Although thinking on the spot here, maybe the mystery of why does he say "cool ranch dressing" could be explained if that is Izzy or Axls' safe word? Doesn't that seem like a perfect safe word for a midwesterner? So they at least maybe knew about the importance of safe words, lol?

  

Man, you're funny but naaah ..... Axl and Izzy are as primitive as a rock. I'm having a hard time picturing them as guys who would submit to a dominatrix... Don't know..... Cool ranch dressing wasn't it also "cool and stressing"? 

1 hour ago, soon said:

Good points. I think the 'bitch is just insane' kinda snuck by me. If it werent Guns Id take the time to think through how Humiliation and aggressive Dirty Talk could also be a wanted part of the scene. But its Guns. Also he's saying that outside of the scene to someone who isnt involved.

Umm... It is a bit confusing and unclear to me because if this song is based on the anecdote told by Izzy, then something has been changed or it is mixed up with a different experience.

Because the "tied up insane bitch" is actually a fat guy wearing female underwear and high heels who just payed the dominatrix to crack the whip on him and then Izzy says she took them out to dinner with that money 

So my question is why did he turn the roles in the song? Was he ashamed of telling the real story?

[soon]

53 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Umm... It is a bit confusing and unclear to me because if this song is based on the anecdote told by Izzy, then something has been changed or it is mixed up with a different experience.

Because the "tied up insane bitch" is actually a fat guy wearing female underwear and high heels who just payed the dominatrix to crack the whip on him and then Izzy says she took them out to dinner with that money 

So my question is why did he turn the roles in the song? Was he ashamed of telling the real story?

Yeah, it is confusing. Being ashamed is the easiest explanation to changing the story. But also its just off brand for them at the time, to be subs. More of a NIN thing at the time. 

Maybe she was a switch and played sub to him?

[killuridols]

2 hours ago, soon said:

Yeah, it is confusing. Being ashamed is the easiest explanation to changing the story. But also its just off brand for them at the time, to be subs. More of a NIN thing at the time. 

Maybe she was a switch and played sub to him?

I was thinking and I guess this follows a pattern.... you know how Izzy also wrote UTLH from some story he heard on the radio about a woman killing her husband so he had to do something about that, tried to "fix It  by reversing the roles and serve some sort of social justice for that poor man...

Well, it looks to me he's doing the same here.... the real story being about a male submitting to a dominatrix he turns it into the opposite and adds the judgemental parts to it because in the end, he thinks those practices and people involved are all insane.

[soon]

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

I was thinking and I guess this follows a pattern.... you know how Izzy also wrote UTLH from some story he heard on the radio about a woman killing her husband so he had to do something about that, tried to "fix It  by reversing the roles and serve some sort of social justice for that poor man...

Well, it looks to me he's doing the same here.... the real story being about a male submitting to a dominatrix he turns it into the opposite and adds the judgemental parts to it because in the end, he thinks those practices and people involved are all insane.

Neat! I think thats a strong theory. Very likely.

I was wondering if he saw being in Guns and stardom like being under a dominatrix' control and had to rework it a bit to save face, but your theory holds a lot more water.

[Tori72]

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

I was thinking and I guess this follows a pattern.... you know how Izzy also wrote UTLH from some story he heard on the radio about a woman killing her husband so he had to do something about that, tried to "fix It  by reversing the roles and serve some sort of social justice for that poor man...

Well, it looks to me he's doing the same here.... the real story being about a male submitting to a dominatrix he turns it into the opposite and adds the judgemental parts to it because in the end, he thinks those practices and people involved are all insane.

Yup. Also it was not very Guns n Roses to have a „strong“ female role in sex or violence... All macho. *insert eyerolling here*

[baldek]

This is one weird fanbase. Guns N' Roses' history can't be rewritten or else I'm sure some of you would be the first in line to do so.

[Azifwekare]

On 23/09/2018 at 12:06 AM, killuridols said:

Omg dont worry about setlists because these dinosaurs aren't changing anything. It's 2018 and they re-released AFD with all the mysoginist lines untouched and plus a bunch of lame ass posters.

The only thing they had to give up was OIAM but I guess that one was out of the way since it was released.... so..... It's like people know they are grandpas with that set of mind and well, they are tolerated because I dont know why, lol.... only time will tell...

OIAM is the only track I would agree with being edited or flat out dropped (which of course it has been). What would be a perfectly good track ruined by some genuinely hateful lyrics. Eugh.

There are a few people in this thread that come across as the kind of people who eagerly await their mothers leaving the house so they can sing along to OIAM, with, like, all the bad words and everything. 

Edited September 24, 2018 by Azifwekare

[killuridols]

8 hours ago, soon said:

Neat! I think thats a strong theory. Very likely.

I was wondering if he saw being in Guns and stardom like being under a dominatrix' control and had to rework it a bit to save face, but your theory holds a lot more water.

Haha, no, I don't think his writing goes to those metaphorical lengths 

Maybe he knew some other girl who was into it and he thought she was an insane bitch because of that but then it makes no sense that he would say the song was inspired by a dominatrix  and the way he tells that anecdote seems to me like he's not being that much judgemental of what she did.... maybe the money part.... but then he would be an hypocrite because he benefited from that too so.... It's hard to tell...

2 hours ago, Azifwekare said:

OIAM is the only track I would agree with being edited or flat out dropped (which of course it has been). What would be a perfectly good track ruined by some genuinely hateful lyrics. Eugh.

There are a few people in this thread that come across as the kind of people who eagerly await their mothers leaving the house so they can sing along to OIAM, with, like, all the bad words and everything. 

Playing that song live nowadays is a life risk in all senses and I think they are genuinely aware of the damage its caused and the more damage it would cause to them and to others.

Do you mean there are people living in basements or something like that? 

Aaah... don't make me give my opinion on some people in this thread. Let's keep it civil for as long as we can.

9 hours ago, Tori72 said:

Yup. Also it was not very Guns n Roses to have a „strong“ female role in sex or violence... All macho. *insert eyerolling here*

Of course not, that would never happen and don't think it will.

I've got the feeling I'm going to be disappointed when it comes to lyrics if a new album or song is ever released.

[DieselDaisy]

They're all sexist songs really - in fact, probably 80% of rock n' roll songs produced are sexist - but this is just a stupid conversation as nobody should go to Guns N' Roses expecting a nuanced portrait of femininity and/or interaction between the sexes! You wouldn't listen to the operas of Richard Wagner expecting Bell canto, would you?

[Sydney Fan]

47 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

They're all sexist songs really - in fact, probably 80% of rock n' roll songs produced are sexist - but this is just a stupid conversation as nobody should go to Guns N' Roses expecting a nuanced portrait of femininity and/or interaction between the sexes! You wouldn't listen to the operas of Richard Wagner expecting Bell canto, would you?

Im wondering if guns need to do a rock version of the song "blurred lines" by robin thicke to see how sexist they can push things for the next album.