Interview: Slash Admits Guns N’ Roses’ Songs Are ‘Sort of Sexist’

[Fourteenbeers]

37 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

3. Simmer down. I said that's how the song is for me. It wasn't an endorsement of any of the band members. That being said, despite the fact they've done morally bankrupt things like Axl beating his wife or Izzy pimping - I think it's well within reason that they're capable of feelings of camaraderie for women now and then.

I don't believe that Izzy is proud of his career ... as a pimp.  

Edited September 24, 2018 by Fourteenbeers

[Tori72]

9 minutes ago, Fourteenbeers said:

I don't believe that Izzy is proud of his career ... as a pimp.  

 The way you say it makes me laugh. Idk why. And no, I don’t think he is either.

Still, discussing the lyrics in songs like Pretty tied up, yes, they’re sexist, yes all the band members were (probably still are, we don’t know) sexist and no, bitch, in that song is not a non-sexist word. Any other questions?

Ah yeah. It is possible to see the sexism in rock n roll but still love the music. That’s a complex thing and I guess women (and other people sensible enough to see sexism when they, well, see it) are trained to be able to strip things out of their sexist context for the sake of other artistic expressions (or personal if it is a conversion or interaction) since they are little. Part of our culture.

Hope I could get that in a somewhat functioning english grammar. lol

[Len Cnut]

I dunno what'chu heard about Iz

But a bitch can't a dollar outta Iz

No caddilac no perm, you can't see

that he's a motherfuckin' P I M P

[Tori72]

14 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

I dunno what'chu heard about Iz

But a bitch can't a dollar outta Iz

No caddilac no perm, you can't see

that he's a motherfuckin' P I M P

I wish I’d be able to understand what you’re saying  

[Lio]

23 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

I wish I’d be able to understand what you’re saying  

 

[SoulMonster]

Our world is a sexist place. We men have exploited our position of power for too long. It is getting better, though, and hopefully the positive trend that we are seeing will continue. I want my daughters to grow up in a world where they take protection and freedom from oppression and harassment for granted, like I have. So we need to keep on fighting for this, men and women together. Right. But I won't prioritize objecting to rock and roll lyrics from the 80s. Firstly because they were written in the 80s and aren't applicable to today. They don't convey a contemporary message. Even if Axl sings It's So Easy today, doesn't mean that he mean all th words. That he think the lyrics should be taken seriously today (and not even in 1987). Just like people shouldn't be angry from reading Agatha Christie's "Ten Little N!ggers." Let's focus on being angry about things that are wrong today, not things that were wrong before. We have to accept and appreciate that time has changed. No need to trash Appetite, just like there is no need to burn Christie's collected works. accept them as artifacts of a different time and appreciate that we have moved on. And secondly, we have to accept the context of those songs. They belong to a genre, hard rock of the 80s, that was inherently sexist. Whether ut was all tongue-in-cheek or not, is hard to say. Some was. Some weren't. Guns N' Roses branded themselves as more genuine than most of their counterparts and hence that added a menace to their lyrics. But still, it was part of an overall subculture.  

[soon]

16 hours ago, baldek said:

This is one weird fanbase. Guns N' Roses' history can't be rewritten or else I'm sure some of you would be the first in line to do so.

what is this in reference too?

[baldek]

11 minutes ago, soon said:

what is this in reference too?

GN'R came from the gutter. They wrote and sang about it - quite good, if you ask me.

No one in the band, and fans as well, really cared or even gave a second thought about what was being done, because that's the way life was for those guys. Was it sexist? Yeah. Misogynist? Yep. Disrespectful? Several times. Rebellious? Oh boy. But - they are a product of their time. Look, thousands of girls and women, boys and men have sang the line Turn around bitch I got a use for you over the years, because it's in the context of the song; and that's fine! That doesn't contribute at all to inequality between both sexes. Why on earth should lines like that be replaced, omitted or avoided? It's not because some people can't discern between different contexts and eras, that things should be erased from history. There are far greater issues on this subject, than 30 year old lyrics.

To be honest I never understood why Slash addressed this "issue".

[soon]

2 minutes ago, baldek said:

GN'R came from the gutter. They wrote and sang about it - quite good, if you ask me.

No one in the band, and fans as well, really cared or even gave a second thought about what was being done, because that's the way life was for those guys. Was it sexist? Yeah. Misogynist? Yep. Disrespectful? Several times. Rebellious? Oh boy. But - they are a product of their time. Look, thousands of girls and women, boys and men have sang the line Turn around bitch I got a use for you over the years, because it's in the context of the song; and that's fine! That doesn't contribute at all to inequality between both sexes. Why on earth should lines like that be replaced, omitted or avoided? It's not because some people can't discern between different contexts and eras, that things should be erased from history. There are far greater issues on this subject, than 30 year old lyrics.

To be honest I never understood why Slash addressed this "issue".

Discussing a Slash quote from last week is one thing. It prompting other conversation is another thing. But I dont see how any of that is at all related to "attempting to rewrite the bands history." It is certainly exploring the bands history which is a normal fan thing to do. Its just a subject to discuss like Slashs hats, Richards moobs and Axls converse high tops. 

I dont think Ive read a post calling for lines to be replaced, omitted or avoided? Some people are more interested in the social and cultural aspects of their favourite band. Others seem to get that confused with a hash tag movement and get triggered by that assumption. In this case the interviewer did reference that, but these conversations happen all the time on here independent of current events. I personally dont understand why adults collect action figures and Funkos of GNR but I never criticize anyone for it - theres room for everyone imo.

If its misguided to discuss things just because they are 30 years old, then we may as well shut down the entire forum, lol. You know what I mean?

[baldek]

22 minutes ago, soon said:

Discussing a Slash quote from last week is one thing. It prompting other conversation is another thing. But I dont see how any of that is at all related to "attempting to rewrite the bands history." It is certainly exploring the bands history which is a normal fan thing to do. Its just a subject to discuss like Slashs hats, Richards moobs and Axls converse high tops. 

I dont think Ive read a post calling for lines to be replaced, omitted or avoided? Some people are more interested in the social and cultural aspects of their favourite band. Others seem to get that confused with a hash tag movement and get triggered by that assumption. In this case the interviewer did reference that, but these conversations happen all the time on here independent of current events. I personally dont understand why adults collect action figures and Funkos of GNR but I never criticize anyone for it - theres room for everyone imo.

If its misguided to discuss things just because they are 30 years old, then we may as well shut down the entire forum, lol. You know what I mean?

Discussing the band and their history is normal, and as you well said, it's discussions that keep forums like these alive. I'm all up for that. 

What I don't agree with is trying to apologize (in Slash's case) or even jump on the bandwagon just because we're living in a certain time and thus judge the past according to predominant values of today. Social and cultural aspects of Guns N' Roses are something I'm very interested on, which is why I tend to stick to the era I'm analyzing. I may be wrong here but I could swear this is the first time this discussion has been brought up, in the history of this forum. All of a sudden it's a major issue when in reality those lyrics have existed for decades. And because of what? Nothing really...

And yes, I can't remember who said it but I've seen implying that they could have retouched the lyrics. Nonsense. 

[Azifwekare]

17 hours ago, baldek said:

This is one weird fanbase. Guns N' Roses' history can't be rewritten or else I'm sure some of you would be the first in line to do so.

This discussion is in no way about rewriting history. It's about personal growth. People who were kids, or at least younger, when they got into Guns and didn't think or care about the lyrics have now grown up, and through more mature eyes/ears have simply acknowledged that some lyrics are not OK, and simply moved on (and the band seems to have done the same). It doesn't affect our love for the band and the music (at least not for me personally). Some people are interested in discussing it, some people aren't. It really isn't anything more than that.

What really is odd is that some people have managed to 'trigger' themselves over someone else having an opinion on the lyrics. No one is saying you can't enjoy it, it's just that some people are interested in analysing and thinking about what they consume more than others.

14 minutes ago, baldek said:

And yes, I can't remember who said it but I've seen implying that they could have retouched the lyrics. Nonsense. 

That was probably me - I said that I would support any decision to edit or remove OIAM. And the band have, as obviously it would be professional suicide to have included the track on the AFD reissue.

Don't get me wrong. I love It's So Easy, Used To Love Her, Pretty Tied Up etc. I love all the tracks that have been mentioned in this thread.

I even like One In A Million - I just simply listen to an edited version that removes the Hooray for tolerance! verses - it's still long enough to be a full length song. It really does bring out the true "We're all one in a million, so stop fucking with each other" message (as per Axl) much clearer without all the hateful shit.

A lot of people enjoy the track warts n all without necessarily agreeing with those lyrics, and that's OK, and I'm usually also the type of person that prefers uncensored music. But I draw the line at racism - I don't need shit like that on my iPod. And I fail to understand how that decision would affect anyone but me.

[Azifwekare]

This whole "I enjoy GN'R so I shouldn't care about sexism etc." attitude is just childish and naive absolutism. The real world isn't that black and white.

[soon]

48 minutes ago, baldek said:

Discussing the band and their history is normal, and as you well said, it's discussions that keep forums like these alive. I'm all up for that. 

What I don't agree with is trying to apologize (in Slash's case) or even jump on the bandwagon just because we're living in a certain time and thus judge the past according to predominant values of today. Social and cultural aspects of Guns N' Roses are something I'm very interested on, which is why I tend to stick to the era I'm analyzing. I may be wrong here but I could swear this is the first time this discussion has been brought up, in the history of this forum. All of a sudden it's a major issue when in reality those lyrics have existed for decades. And because of what? Nothing really...

And yes, I can't remember who said it but I've seen implying that they could have retouched the lyrics. Nonsense. 

This may be the first PTI lyrics discussion, but discussions on Guns lyrics through the prism of gender and power are fairly common - at least for the brief 2 years Ive been here.

The PTI discussion was prompted by a post about a hypothetical situation in which they dont play it because of current norms and values. It was meant as a criticism about 2018, not the actual lyrics. To me that sounds very hard to imagine and I don't think its worth even pondering, personally. 

I can only speak for myself but for me when something about culture, social values, sexuality or politics related to Guns comes up, it is merely an instinct or compulsion of mine to pour over the info. Same with all rock that I love. Like a dog on a walk sniffing up all the information it can just because thats what dogs do. I don't have that same compulsion about bootlegs, so Im happy to have threads to read where people who have a passion for that subject can inform me and add dimensions and complexities to enrich the subject. 

I dont know you so I cant speak to your intentions but certainly many people get all tense and see someones interest in lyrics as somehow related to what ever is pissing them of about modern morality. To me that is nonsense.

 

Edited September 24, 2018 by soon

[Lio]

Never in a million years did I take a GNR song as some shining example of how to live my life. Never did I think that those lyrics were okay to use in normal everyday life. I can separate a song from reality.

I'm sorry, but when I read about editing a song to not include something that is offensive, I laughed out loud. It's beyond my grasp why anyone would do that

As far as the bitch word, Ice-T taught me that some of you hooray for tolerance!s are bitches too. I never took the songs as all women being bitches. Just some

[BlueJean Baby]

I am about the same age as the guys in the band, and dated musicians from the time I was 15 on. Back when these songs were written guys would said "my bitches" or "bitch"  just tbe same  as saying girl, chick or any other term referring to a female and it was not meant or construed as being derogatory.  The issue now is being looked at under today's views, which is not how it was intended. Just my 2 cents on the subject. 😉

[Fourteenbeers]

 

[RussTCB]

43 minutes ago, Lio said:

Never in a million years did I take a GNR song as some shining example of how to live my life. Never did I think that those lyrics were okay to use in normal everyday life. I can separate a song from reality.

I'm sorry, but when I read about editing a song to not include something that is offensive, I laughed out loud. It's beyond my grasp why anyone would do that

As far as the bitch word, Ice-T taught me that some of you hooray for tolerance!s are bitches too. I never took the songs as all women being bitches. Just some

I feel the same way about not using GN'R (or any artists work) as a guideline for how to live my life. I also don't think artists should go back and censor their art because times have changed.

The problem these days is that no on bothers to look at facts prior to throwing out crazy and often times false accusations. The world we live in now is one where a person could tweet about being offended by Pretty Tied Up, have the tweet gain attention, then have all of that turn into a big controversy for GN'R. As ridiculous as that may be, that's the world we live in now.

When I mentioned them never playing PTU again earlier, that's what I was talking about. It's one thing to have the song out there on UYI II. It's another thing for some a-hole to go to a GN'R show, hear it, then tweet about how their life is ruined because Axl Rose sang "I crack the whip and that bitch is just insane" in 2018. The contest wouldn't be looked into by anyone. They'd instantly jump all over GN'R over it instead. As insanely stupid as all of that is, I could see if being a reason GN'R would just say "fuck it, let's just not play the song anymore".

[ZoSoRose]

Of course GNR music is sexist. 

Luckily I can seperate art from action. Listening to them doesn't make me want to reenact their lives. The world is a dark place, its ok for art to reflect that

[Ratam]

44 minutes ago, Fourteenbeers said:

 

"Bitch is back" is an Elton John song.

[Lio]

2 minutes ago, Ratam said:

"Bitch is back" is an Elton John song.

I hope he was singing about his dog!

[soon]

Point of order: At no time did anyone express concern that the songs would influence peoples behaviour irl.

Public discourse is incredible to behold.

Edited September 24, 2018 by soon

[Azifwekare]

31 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

Of course GNR music is sexist. 

Luckily I can seperate art from action. Listening to them doesn't make me want to reenact their lives. The world is a dark place, its ok for art to reflect that

Exactly, although the fact that people who object to sexism can also be hardcore GN'R fans seems to blow people's minds, which is pretty damn funny.

[Tori72]

55 minutes ago, Fourteenbeers said:

 

„Bitch is back“ is an Elton John song. I’m still confused if Axl was showing some self mockery here or not? 

[Fourteenbeers]

37 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

„Bitch is back“ is an Elton John song. I’m still confused if Axl was showing some self mockery here or not? 

I'm pretty sure he was. And so was Elton.  

Though I'm not sure if Axl showed self mockery by wearing a Mickey Mouse T-shirt. That could be just a coincidence.

 

 

Edited September 24, 2018 by Fourteenbeers

[-W.A.R-]

All the hubbub about GNR's content seems to be mostly located on this forum Meanwhile Vogue is writing articles about #WokeAxl

Doesn't seem people care all that much. Slash probably answered this correctly by not getting all defensive and railing on SJW's.