LA_0013 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Good to hear the mutual respect. Richard is so accomplished, and Slash is, well.. Slash. Have to say there were numerous times on the NITL tour that I think Richard outplayed Slash on Wish You Were Here. He’s a top drawer right hand man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 4 hours ago, ludurigan said: you know what else that slash quote reminded me? it reminded me when slash said basically the same thing about gilby clarke! oh! and it also reminded me when slash said basically the same thing about dave kushner! and then later when slash had no more business with gilby and when slash had no more business with kushner he said stuff like izzy was the guy that really complemented him and the guy that really brought the best out of him and that they had this effortless unspoken chemistry or whatever were his words! so, what is my conclusion? my conclusion is that slash is 100% genuine and FROM THE HEART when he talks about ricky, gilby and kushner, because all these quotes were given when slash was (is) in business with them! see? completely uninterested talk! the quote about izzy, on the other hand, was given when slash was not in a band with izzy, and had no business with izzy, so i am really inclined to believe that they are fake shit and that slash was just... trolling? I don't remember Slash ever saying anything negative about either Gilby or Kushner though after he wasn't in bands with them. But he has said different things about Izzy through time. And in this case with Fortus there's no implication of comparison between him and Izzy or that Fortus is better etc. He just says positive things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludurigan Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Blackstar said: I don't remember Slash ever saying anything negative about either Gilby or Kushner though after he wasn't in bands with them. But he has said different things about Izzy through time. And in this case with Fortus there's no implication of comparison between him and Izzy or that Fortus is better etc. He just says positive things. maybe @SoulMonster or @RONIN can find those quotes (?) i vividly remember slash saying post-VR that izzy was the only one he had real chemistry (unspoken, efortless) with and the one that fitted his style the best or made his playing better etc etc etc that means gilby and kushner were not as great as he made sure to say in every interview while he was playing with them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludurigan Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 3 hours ago, Lio said: I haven't said anything about that. If you're not trolling, please show me "True Reunion" and "I Never Lie". And "Benjamin Forever" while you're at it. Nowhere did I say anything about whether I believe Slash or not. Just simply stated the fact that you are trolling. Again. i am sure that you are smart enough to notice that my point is that slash's words about ricky are worth as much as shit. or aren't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sosso Posted September 20, 2018 Author Share Posted September 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, ludurigan said: i am sure that you are smart enough to notice that my point is that slash's words about ricky are worth as much as shit. or aren't you? @ludurigan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 I remember Slash (and this is some vague memory) mentioning how Gilby sued them (Guns) and this annoyed him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, ludurigan said: maybe @SoulMonster or @RONIN can find those quotes (?) i vividly remember slash saying post-VR that izzy was the only one he had real chemistry (unspoken, efortless) with and the one that fitted his style the best or made his playing better etc etc etc that means gilby and kushner were not as great as he made sure to say in every interview while he was playing with them @Blackstaris probably of even more help to you But yes, Slash has said positive things about Izzy: I liked Izzy. He was, after all, the first guy I met and I enjoyed his style and admired his talent [Bozza, Anthony, & Slash (2007). Slash. Harper Entertainment: New York] I never really have to go, "Izzy, play this part this way." He just plays his thing his own way, and we never really talk about it much. Last night, we went in and took two songs from scratch, just basic chord changes, and worked them into full songs. That's one of the things about me and Izzy working together, he knows where I'm at, and I know where he's at. And that's the way it's always been. I make up something that accompanies his part, and at the same time accents it, and he does the same with my parts. We have that kind of chemistry. We've always been good friends, so for us to get in a room and play is a very easy thing to do [Guitar One Magazine, 2002] Dave [Kushner] and Izzy are the only two guitar players I really mesh with [Velvet Revolver, Total Guitar #121 April 2004] But also kind of negative things: When we first met we didn't click musically at all. lzzy and Axl had a band together. I wanted to get Axl and I didn't want to work with another guitar player because I'd never done it before. Working with other guitar players. I couldn't be in control of what was happening on the guitar. I wanted to get Axl away from lzzy, which was impossible. At the time when I met Axl we started a band and lzzy was in it, but he split to join a band called London. which I had just quit. That was cool, so me and Axl had a band going. That broke up. Eventually Axl joined L.A. Guns. Then lzzy joined L.A. Guns because everybody just wanted to be in a band and be working. That didn't work out and I got this call that said, do you want to come back and play with us? At first I didn't want to do it because me and Axl had been through some bad times together. I did it and worked with lzzy because that's what was happening. It was the only band I could find that I could relate to. If you listen to the record, me and lzzy don't play anything alike. Our sound is completely different. He doesn't play lead hardly at all, but his rhythm style is cool. I was a lot heavier than he was. But we worked it out and it wasn't even a conscious thing. We just played together and eventually got better and better and now we sort of jell more [Guitar For The Practising Musician, September 1988] And very negative things: About The Spaghetti Incident?: I love recording like this. During Appetite..., Lies and Use Your... I had to put up with Izzy the whole time. I never liked playing with him. It was wonderful to escape him on this record. It sounds tighter and so much cooler than anything we've done before. I always got irritated over Izzy's way of playing. It didn't sound right. Before "Spaghetti", we erased his guitar and Gilby put on a new one. It sounded perfect! [Okej, November? 1993] [The Spaghetti Incident?] was recorded the way I'd prefer to do any Guns N' Roses record. When we did Appetite and Use Your Illusion, I had to deal with Izzy. I never liked playing with Izzy the whole time I've been in this band. It was great not having to deal with him on this record. It sounds a lot tighter, or at least a little more cool than it sounded before. I always used to get bummed out about certain songs on Appetite that Izzy didn't play right. For this record, we took off all of Izzy's tracks and Gilby played them. I wasn't there when Gilby did it, but when I got the tapes back, it was a relief. It sounded perfect.[Guitar Player, January 1994] I think that if you look at the dates of these quotes one can sort of see a pattern. In recent years Slash has allowed himself to be more gracious towards Izzy, whereas in the immediate years after Izzy leaving Slash would criticize him severely (like Axl did). So maybe the truth is more found in the 1988 quote? They didn't really mesh at first (partly because they had to learn how to play together and partly because neither of them wanted to play together), but they did find a way to make it work, and as Slash has gotten older he has come to realize that what they had was special? Edited September 20, 2018 by SoulMonster 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Slash praises and criticizes people according to whoever it is he happens to be working with at that particular moment. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-W.A.R- Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Contrast this with what he said about Frank in Rolling Stone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 (edited) Another quote (Slash, Musician, 1995): [...] But the only reason Guns had two guitars was because Izzy and Axl came as a package deal [...]. I had a band called Road Crew and I couldn't find a singer. Singers are the hardest things to find. [...] And Izzy and I never had a great relationship. I played what I played on my side of the stage, he played on his. Izzy couldn't really play guitar anyway - he's a great songwriter. So I could do whatever I wanted, as long as we had a basic arrangement. Then when Izzy quit, Gilby was like a godsend, 'cause we had to put somebody in that spot. But now Gilby is gone... [...] Guns is a two-guitar band. But when we go into the studio I end up doing all the guitars by myself. 2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said: I remember Slash (and this is some vague memory) mentioning how Gilby sued them (Guns) and this annoyed him. I remember Gilby saying that he and Slash had a little fallout because he had sued GnR, but I'm not sure if Slash said anything about it. Edited September 20, 2018 by Blackstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 ''Convenience'' as I said. When the reunion goes tit's up, expect to hear things like, ''when all things are considered I didn't really like working with Frank and Richard''. It is just what Slash does. He was one (of two) guitarists who inspired me to play. I love his stuff but he is a bullshit merchant haha. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 I don't remember Slash ever saying that he didn't like to play with Gilby or Kushner in hindsight. But he had dissed all the second Snakepit lineup afterwards, I think. Now I think he clearly treats Fortus differently from Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludurigan Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 4 hours ago, SoulMonster said: @Blackstaris probably of even more help to you But yes, Slash has said positive things about Izzy: I liked Izzy. He was, after all, the first guy I met and I enjoyed his style and admired his talent [Bozza, Anthony, & Slash (2007). Slash. Harper Entertainment: New York] I never really have to go, "Izzy, play this part this way." He just plays his thing his own way, and we never really talk about it much. Last night, we went in and took two songs from scratch, just basic chord changes, and worked them into full songs. That's one of the things about me and Izzy working together, he knows where I'm at, and I know where he's at. And that's the way it's always been. I make up something that accompanies his part, and at the same time accents it, and he does the same with my parts. We have that kind of chemistry. We've always been good friends, so for us to get in a room and play is a very easy thing to do [Guitar One Magazine, 2002] Dave [Kushner] and Izzy are the only two guitar players I really mesh with [Velvet Revolver, Total Guitar #121 April 2004] But also kind of negative things: When we first met we didn't click musically at all. lzzy and Axl had a band together. I wanted to get Axl and I didn't want to work with another guitar player because I'd never done it before. Working with other guitar players. I couldn't be in control of what was happening on the guitar. I wanted to get Axl away from lzzy, which was impossible. At the time when I met Axl we started a band and lzzy was in it, but he split to join a band called London. which I had just quit. That was cool, so me and Axl had a band going. That broke up. Eventually Axl joined L.A. Guns. Then lzzy joined L.A. Guns because everybody just wanted to be in a band and be working. That didn't work out and I got this call that said, do you want to come back and play with us? At first I didn't want to do it because me and Axl had been through some bad times together. I did it and worked with lzzy because that's what was happening. It was the only band I could find that I could relate to. If you listen to the record, me and lzzy don't play anything alike. Our sound is completely different. He doesn't play lead hardly at all, but his rhythm style is cool. I was a lot heavier than he was. But we worked it out and it wasn't even a conscious thing. We just played together and eventually got better and better and now we sort of jell more [Guitar For The Practising Musician, September 1988] And very negative things: About The Spaghetti Incident?: I love recording like this. During Appetite..., Lies and Use Your... I had to put up with Izzy the whole time. I never liked playing with him. It was wonderful to escape him on this record. It sounds tighter and so much cooler than anything we've done before. I always got irritated over Izzy's way of playing. It didn't sound right. Before "Spaghetti", we erased his guitar and Gilby put on a new one. It sounded perfect! [Okej, November? 1993] [The Spaghetti Incident?] was recorded the way I'd prefer to do any Guns N' Roses record. When we did Appetite and Use Your Illusion, I had to deal with Izzy. I never liked playing with Izzy the whole time I've been in this band. It was great not having to deal with him on this record. It sounds a lot tighter, or at least a little more cool than it sounded before. I always used to get bummed out about certain songs on Appetite that Izzy didn't play right. For this record, we took off all of Izzy's tracks and Gilby played them. I wasn't there when Gilby did it, but when I got the tapes back, it was a relief. It sounded perfect.[Guitar Player, January 1994] I think that if you look at the dates of these quotes one can sort of see a pattern. In recent years Slash has allowed himself to be more gracious towards Izzy, whereas in the immediate years after Izzy leaving Slash would criticize him severely (like Axl did). So maybe the truth is more found in the 1988 quote? They didn't really mesh at first (partly because they had to learn how to play together and partly because neither of them wanted to play together), but they did find a way to make it work, and as Slash has gotten older he has come to realize that what they had was special? thanks man! yeah i am aware of all these negative quotes about izzy. i suppose you are correct. i suppose right after velvet revolver ended and slash recorded his first album and released his book is more or less the time he must have looked back and realized that what he and izzy had was special i also think there is a huge gap between slash and izzy (cant really tell you what it it) that is maybe larger than whatever gap that there was between axl and slash. slash doesnt seem to feel confortable with izzy and vice-versa and the fact that they recorded ONE SONG together since GNR ended is a bit of evidence on that, maybe? i dont know. i think it is a shame, i think these guys should write an album per year and if i were their manager i would find a way to talk them into doing it. but thats another topic for another thread i suppose! i would add, like @DieselDaisy mentioned, that slash says what is convenient for the moment. that's a sure pattern in slash's interviews and that's why it is hard to believe anything (specially complimentary stuff) that he says about the aliens that quote "Dave [Kushner] and Izzy are the only two guitar players I really mesh with" proves that. Because he is basically saying that never truly really "meshed" with gilby, right? and if yuou look back on his interviews from the circus era he says exactly the opposite, he says a lot of complimentary stuff about gilby, saying how great gilby was and how great they fit together blah blah blah blah... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RONIN Posted September 21, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted September 21, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, ludurigan said: i also think there is a huge gap between slash and izzy (cant really tell you what it it) that is maybe larger than whatever gap that there was between axl and slash. slash doesnt seem to feel confortable with izzy and vice-versa and the fact that they recorded ONE SONG together since GNR ended is a bit of evidence on that, maybe? Interesting observation. I've always suspected as much. "Izzy doesn't like being dictated to." - Slash As much as I love Slash, he has the same affliction the redhead has. They both seem to prefer yes-men/underlings who they can micromanage. One of the unfortunate side-effects of great talent is that you begin to think you're good at everything and can do another person's job better than them. Gilby, Dave, the rhythm player from SMKC - can any of these guys tell Slash to fuck off if he tells them to play a certain way? Nope. You know who can? Izzy. And that's why Axl and Slash can't have him in the band. He won't fall into line like Duff (or "Dough" as you call him). Izzy isn't intimidated by Slash's reputation because Izzy himself is a legend who rose up from the gutter side by side with Slash. Like Slash, Izzy has all the credibility in the world as a musician and the respect of his peers. Slash can't control that guy and tell him what to do unless he voluntarily takes a subordinate role like Duff. Remember the other high profile guitarists who were rumored to join the band post- Izzy? Dave Navarro and Zakk Wylde? Think it's a coincidence that they didn't work out as replacements for Izzy? Slash does not want an equal on rhythm guitar. That's been clear since the making of UYI when he diminished Izzy's presence on those albums. And his ego and legend has grown so far since the UYI days that it's probably impossible for him to go back to how things used to be. There's no way he's sharing leads or letting another guitarist come up with the backbone of his songs the way Izzy did. People might say, well Fortus is an even better player than Slash technically. Perhaps. But Fortus is a session player. A wage slave. He's not calling the shots. If Slash tells him to stand in the shadows at a gig, that's where he'll be. And beyond that, regardless of the quotes about Slash wanting Fortus for his solo band, I have my doubts whether he would be in NITL if Slash had his way. History doesn't really lend credence to Slash having a more accomplished/"showy" guitar player by his side in a band. If not for Axl, I suspect he'd have roped in a much more low-key guy like Gilby for NITL. That being said, Fortus' exuberant stage presence and technical chops might be annoying at times for someone who's a "hog for the limelight" (as per Axl), but he's still less of a creative threat compared to Izzy who was one of the principal songwriters of that band. It remains to be seen what Fortus can bring to the table creatively for a studio record - and even if he has material, he has zero power to get his stuff on the album without the prior approval of Slaxl. Quote i would add, like @DieselDaisy mentioned, that slash says what is convenient for the moment. that's a sure pattern in slash's interviews and that's why it is hard to believe anything (specially complimentary stuff) that he says about the aliens that quote "Dave [Kushner] and Izzy are the only two guitar players I really mesh with" proves that. Because he is basically saying that never truly really "meshed" with gilby, right? and if yuou look back on his interviews from the circus era he says exactly the opposite, he says a lot of complimentary stuff about gilby, saying how great gilby was and how great they fit together blah blah blah blah... In defense of Slash, he knows how to play the PR game really well (as does Duff). They go where the wind blows. At that time, Gilby was a nobody and Slash was in a band with Kushner. Associating Kushner with Izzy through the statement that he could only mesh with those two lent credibility to Kushner and VR. It's no different than Axl trotting out Izzy or Duff at a Nu Guns show - an instant credibility booster. Point being, as you and Diesel said - Slash will usually say what benefits the situation at hand. Edited September 21, 2018 by RONIN 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 Only Axl is brutally honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney Fan Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 (edited) So how do we answer the part in slashs book where izzy calls out of tge blue and wants to jam and lead into what became VR. The songs that VR did can we tell what songs had something to do wirh izzy?. Also izzy is credited with a thankyou in the liner notes on Contraband. Edited September 21, 2018 by Sydney Fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RONIN Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 15 minutes ago, Sydney Fan said: So how do we answer the part in slashs book where izzy calls out of tge blue and wants to jam and lead into what became VR. The songs that VR did can we tell what songs had something to do wirh izzy?. Also izzy is credited with a thankyou in the liner notes on Contraband. You have to take into account that Slash was probably at his lowest (morale-wise) during the late 90's up till the release of Contraband. Even Tracii Gunns was getting his calls returned by Slash during that era. Jamming with Izzy and Duff was probably a huge step up from the guys he had played with in Snakepit. Slash was desperate for relevance/commercial success at that point. He may have been more amenable and open to collaborating in ways that he isn't anymore. And even in VR, wasn't Slash basically calling the shots in that band? There's a power balance in the guitar playing on AFD between Slash and Izzy that is missing in Slash's subsequent albums. That isn't a coincidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derick Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 1 hour ago, RONIN said: As much as I love Slash, he has the same affliction the redhead has. They both seem to prefer yes-men/underlings who they can micromanage. One of the unfortunate side-effects of great talent is that you begin to think you're good at everything and can do another person's job better than them. Well, IMO we can say that Izzy has the same “problem” as his friends. Otherwise, during all those years we would have several partnerships of him with other recognized musicians or even w other bands.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RONIN Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, Derick said: Well, IMO we can say that Izzy has the same “problem” as his friends. Otherwise, during all those years we would have several partnerships of him with other recognized musicians or even w other bands.. In the words of our forum aristocrat Diesel Daisy, "Poppycock my dear chap." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludurigan Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 2 hours ago, wasted said: Only Axl is brutally honest. not sure if you are kidding or being brutally serious what about izzy? doesnt seem like a bullshitter to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, ludurigan said: not sure if you are kidding or being brutally serious what about izzy? doesnt seem like a bullshitter to me He’s kind of sarcastic I think. I wouldn’t be surprised if we are misreading the whole situation. I think Izzy might get it or not really care. That’s kind of his thing isn’t it, doesn’t feel right so cuts out. But it’s not like a grudge. It just didn’t work out. It might later. Axl was still disputing Slash’s book after or even during the reunion phone calls. That kind of thing. Edited September 21, 2018 by wasted 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derick Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 43 minutes ago, RONIN said: In the words of our forum aristocrat Diesel Daisy, "Poppycock my dear chap." Sorry but makes a lot of sense to me..What you said about Axl and Slash can easily describe Izzy’s behavior too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Bird Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 2 hours ago, RONIN said: You have to take into account that Slash was probably at his lowest (morale-wise) during the late 90's up till the release of Contraband. Even Tracii Gunns was getting his calls returned by Slash during that era. Jamming with Izzy and Duff was probably a huge step up from the guys he had played with in Snakepit. Slash was desperate for relevance/commercial success at that point. He may have been more amenable and open to collaborating in ways that he isn't anymore. And even in VR, wasn't Slash basically calling the shots in that band? There's a power balance in the guitar playing on AFD between Slash and Izzy that is missing in Slash's subsequent albums. That isn't a coincidence. I don't know. By the time he had a lot of guest appearances with big artists. His reputation was still on a high level 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 Since Slash wanted Fortus Longus for his own band, I believe he really likes his playing. I too must say, on WYWH, Richards lead work is more interesting and just "better" than Slash's offerings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverburst80 Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 (edited) I find it hard to hate on Fortus especially when i see him talking about guitar you can see his passion. Slash is trippin though if he things Fortus brings out the best in him, i think Slash is in his own world up there regardless of who's on the other side of the stage. Even with Izzy it was a beautiful accident they both just did their own thing. Edited September 21, 2018 by Silverburst80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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