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No Holds Barred Thread - Post Anything That Is On Your Mind, Even the Politically Incorrect!


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10 minutes ago, soon said:

I appreciate you saying - it really was awful. You know wouldnt have thought to but, I think I will write a letter. Its just a local operation, could actually count for something. Thanks. They've certainly lost my business.

Well said - no idea why it would be a thing at all. I know youre joking, but its kinda true :lol:. I used to say live and let live... but a BuzzFeed quiz said that Im 75% Dark Side of the Force. 

Its these ever changing genders around which we live...in? :lol:

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There’s a pecking order of victimhood. 

The only thing bringing me down is how awesome I am at everything. There’s literally nowhere to fit in. 

The winner outcasts have to band together to build igloos on mars that are fueled by a booze economy. Then nobody would be impressed because nobody was a victim. 

Edited by wasted
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13 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

There are posters on campus explaining how there's really actually 48 or whatever genders. Mental.

I don't have any problems with that. I don't even get why this is such a point of consternation for so many. So what? Who cares? Why do so many people, apparently from the right side of the political spectrum, get so annoyed over an apparent fluidity of gender? Is it the complexity of having to deal with many genders that make this such a huge issue for some people? They can handle all other complexities in life but they draw a line at many genders? That is just too much for them? Or do they see it as sime threat? They are insecure about their masculinity and somehow the argument that gender isn't binary is some threat to them so they rebel against the thought? I just don't get. To me it is a non-issue.

But let's for the sake of the argument consider it for a second.

Gender is how you feel about yourself, right? It is a subjective feeling of where you are. A self-identifying trait. And it is quite long ago since we started to realize that not everybody identifies entirely as male or female, right? That there are all kinds. That maybe there is a continuum from "male" to "female". Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that any random person could fall anywhere on this continuum with equal probability, I still think self-identifying as male or female is by far the most common. Just that some don't. Some self-identify elsewhere on this spectrum of masculinity and femininity. And maybe those that don't self-identify as completely male or female tend to cluster together, so that we actually can talk about 48 different genders? I don't know. But I suppose it is possible.

And then sex. Yay! But no, not in that way. One can argue that how people self-identify are just social constructs. Biology has the answer and then there are only two options! You either have a penis or you don't. But no, it isn't that simple. Most of us are pretty straight-forward men or female as judged by genitalia, but not all. We have hermaphrodites and all kinds of underdeveloped male genitalia and so on. It's complex. But how about the genetics, you might ask, the genitalia is just the exterior, on the inside we either are, or we aren't, male or female! Then it is binary! But no. Again, most people are either XX or XY, but you also have aberrant chromosomal arrangements leading to XXY and other combinations of the sex chromosomes. So again, it could very well be that biologically, some people fall between being "male" and being "female".

But again, why care? Why protest against this? There are so many important issues yet we have lots of people who get angry simply because gender seems to be more complex than what we though in the 50s. What's the problem with this? Are people afraid they'll be reprimanded from referring to some as "she" when that person wanted to be referred to as something else? Give me a break. If people who self-identify as something besides man or woman gets insulted because someone makes a simple mistake, then they are putting down to much importance on something as trivial as how we were born. Our gender doesn't affect our value as human beings. You can be a man or a woman or a whatever, it doesn't matter when it comes to worth. If that's the aspect of your being that is important to you, to the extent that you get insulted if someone makes an honest mistake, then you have got it wrong. 

But again, I don't get why people seem to get their panties in a knot just because we are expanding the meaning of gender. It might seem to be a bit inflated, but so fucking what?

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2 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

I don't have any problems with that. I don't even get why this is such a point of consternation for so many. So what? Who cares? Why do so many people, apparently from the right side of the political spectrum, get so annoyed over an apparent fluidity of gender? Is it the complexity of having to deal with many genders that make this such a huge issue for some people? They can handle all other complexities in life but they draw a line at many genders? That is just too much for them? Or do they see it as sime threat? They are insecure about their masculinity and somehow the argument that gender isn't binary is some threat to them so they rebel against the thought? I just don't get. To me it is a non-issue.

But let's for the sake of the argument consider it for a second.

Gender is how you feel about yourself, right? It is a subjective feeling of where you are. A self-identifying trait. And it is quite long ago since we started to realize that not everybody identifies entirely as male or female, right? That there are all kinds. That maybe there is a continuum from "male" to "female". Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that any random person could fall anywhere on this continuum with equal probability, I still think self-identifying as male or female is by far the most common. Just that some don't. Some self-identify elsewhere on this spectrum of masculinity and femininity. And maybe those that don't self-identify as completely male or female tend to cluster together, so that we actually can talk about 48 different genders? I don't know. But I suppose it is possible.

And then sex. Yay! But no, not in that way. One can argue that how people self-identify are just social constructs. Biology has the answer and then there are only two options! You either have a penis or you don't. But no, it isn't that simple. Most of us are pretty straight-forward men or female as judged by genitalia, but not all. We have hermaphrodites and all kinds of underdeveloped male genitalia and so on. It's complex. But how about the genetics, you might ask, the genitalia is just the exterior, on the inside we either are, or we aren't, male or female! Then it is binary! But no. Again, most people are either XX or XY, but you also have aberrant chromosomal arrangements leading to XXY and other combinations of the sex chromosomes. So again, it could very well be that biologically, some people fall between being "male" and being "female".

But again, why care? Why protest against this? There are so many important issues yet we have lots of people who get angry simply because gender seems to be more complex than what we though in the 50s. What's the problem with this? Are people afraid they'll be reprimanded from referring to some as "she" when that person wanted to be referred to as something else? Give me a break. If people who self-identify as something besides man or woman gets insulted because someone makes a simple mistake, then they are putting down to much importance on something as trivial as how we were born. Our gender doesn't affect our value as human beings. You can be a man or a woman or a whatever, it doesn't matter when it comes to worth. If that's the aspect of your being that is important to you, to the extent that you get insulted if someone makes an honest mistake, then you have got it wrong. 

But again, I don't get why people seem to get their panties in a knot just because we are expanding the meaning of gender. It might seem to be a bit inflated, but so fucking what?

I think it’s about what age these ideas, as correct as they are, are introduced to kids. Kids tend to do what their parents do. So if you keep going on about it maybe they will want to be trans. Let’s start those hormones!

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20 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

I don't have any problems with that. I don't even get why this is such a point of consternation for so many. So what? Who cares? Why do so many people, apparently from the right side of the political spectrum, get so annoyed over an apparent fluidity of gender? Is it the complexity of having to deal with many genders that make this such a huge issue for some people? They can handle all other complexities in life but they draw a line at many genders? That is just too much for them? Or do they see it as sime threat? They are insecure about their masculinity and somehow the argument that gender isn't binary is some threat to them so they rebel against the thought? I just don't get. To me it is a non-issue.

But let's for the sake of the argument consider it for a second.

Gender is how you feel about yourself, right? It is a subjective feeling of where you are. A self-identifying trait. And it is quite long ago since we started to realize that not everybody identifies entirely as male or female, right? That there are all kinds. That maybe there is a continuum from "male" to "female". Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that any random person could fall anywhere on this continuum with equal probability, I still think self-identifying as male or female is by far the most common. Just that some don't. Some self-identify elsewhere on this spectrum of masculinity and femininity. And maybe those that don't self-identify as completely male or female tend to cluster together, so that we actually can talk about 48 different genders? I don't know. But I suppose it is possible.

And then sex. Yay! But no, not in that way. One can argue that how people self-identify are just social constructs. Biology has the answer and then there are only two options! You either have a penis or you don't. But no, it isn't that simple. Most of us are pretty straight-forward men or female as judged by genitalia, but not all. We have hermaphrodites and all kinds of underdeveloped male genitalia and so on. It's complex. But how about the genetics, you might ask, the genitalia is just the exterior, on the inside we either are, or we aren't, male or female! Then it is binary! But no. Again, most people are either XX or XY, but you also have aberrant chromosomal arrangements leading to XXY and other combinations of the sex chromosomes. So again, it could very well be that biologically, some people fall between being "male" and being "female".

But again, why care? Why protest against this? There are so many important issues yet we have lots of people who get angry simply because gender seems to be more complex than what we though in the 50s. What's the problem with this? Are people afraid they'll be reprimanded from referring to some as "she" when that person wanted to be referred to as something else? Give me a break. If people who self-identify as something besides man or woman gets insulted because someone makes a simple mistake, then they are putting down to much importance on something as trivial as how we were born. Our gender doesn't affect our value as human beings. You can be a man or a woman or a whatever, it doesn't matter when it comes to worth. If that's the aspect of your being that is important to you, to the extent that you get insulted if someone makes an honest mistake, then you have got it wrong. 

But again, I don't get why people seem to get their panties in a knot just because we are expanding the meaning of gender. It might seem to be a bit inflated, but so fucking what?

Definition of gender 

(Entry 1 of 2)

1a: a subclass within a grammatical class (such as noun, pronoun, adjective, or verb) of a language that is partly arbitrary but also partly based on distinguishable characteristics (such as shape, social rank, manner of existence, or sex) and that determines agreement with and selection of other words or grammatical forms

b: membership of a word or a grammatical form in such a subclass

c: an inflectional form (see INFLECTION sense 3a) showing membership in such a subclass

2a: SEXthe feminine gender

b: the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gender

 

 

gen·der

/ˈjendər/

noun

1.

the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).

"traditional concepts of gender"

synonyms:sex

"variables included age, income, and gender"

https://www.google.com/search?q=gender&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS774US774&oq=gender&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.1842j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

 

Not sure how there are 63 genders when every definition clearly states there are 2.  (Maybe 3 with hermaphrodites)  Now there is a broader definition of "gender identity" which includes various things people may "identify as" but that's a different term. 

Edited by Kasanova King
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We have uncountable breakfast cereals to choose from (we even have different types of sugar to put on our 14 brands of oatmeal!), we have to navigate between dozens of airliners wherever we want to fly anywhere, we have 13 channels of shit on the TV to choose from...yet the concept of more than two genders is the final straw. That is just too much. We can't have that. We have to rebel against the idea. We have to have talking heads on Fox News rage against it. We have to act all upset in social media. We have to taunt and ridicule those who dare to self-identify as something besides "man" or "woman". For some reason it is felt as some threat to manliness (because almost only men get wound up over this issue, women seems to have no problems with it). To appropriate their less-than-elegant terminology, the idea that there isn't just two genders "triggers" these "sensitive snowflakes" to no end.

I don't get it. What's it to me?

I do see parallels, though, between how a certain demographic of men reacted with hostility and ridicule to the gay movement in the 80s and to how, largely, the same demographic today react similarly to the concept of fluidity of gender. I suppose they both threaten a traditional idea of what it means to be a man. (And to some extent, the #metoo movement did the same, or at least threatened a traditional idea of what acceptable behavior of men could be). 

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3 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

So you're just ignoring what I've said because it doesnt fit your condescending little speech and you're going with hypothetical hyperbolic worst case scenario ranting instead?

"If you question this you're like an insecure homophobe from the 80's! You probably watch Fox News! It's like rapists etc being threatened by #MeeToo! We have 14 kinds of cereal!"

Well, shucks. You've convinced me.

I wasn't saying everybody who is opposed to the idea of more than two genders would have been opposed to homosexuality in the 80s. I said that it is largely the same demographic of men who oppose both (allowing for people like you, who simply think they are mentally ill, to not feel victimized….well, at least that was the idea :lol:).

 

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On October 22, 2018 at 4:03 AM, SoulMonster said:

And then sex. Yay! But no, not in that way. One can argue that how people self-identify are just social constructs. Biology has the answer and then there are only two options! You either have a penis or you don't. But no, it isn't that simple. Most of us are pretty straight-forward men or female as judged by genitalia, but not all. We have hermaphrodites and all kinds of underdeveloped male genitalia and so on. It's complex. But how about the genetics, you might ask, the genitalia is just the exterior, on the inside we either are, or we aren't, male or female! Then it is binary! But no. Again, most people are either XX or XY, but you also have aberrant chromosomal arrangements leading to XXY and other combinations of the sex chromosomes. So again, it could very well be that biologically, some people fall between being "male" and being "female".

Yes, and Intersex is the term many embrace for the people you are describing. "Hermaphrodite" (having both male and female reproductive organs, as you know but maybe other don't) was erroneously used to refer to all the various intersex bodies until recently - as you point out, there are numerous intersex bodies. Hermaphrodite was used as a blanket term at a time when negative stigma was so high that infanticides occurred. So for both the scientific and social reasons the term hermaphrodite has mostly been retired from use on humans (at least in the Elgish speaking world).

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I don't see why people are fuckin' bothered.  Its just one of those really uninteresting things.  I can see both sides of the argument and I don't give a shit about either of em.  But end of the day its a pursuit of happiness thing to me, if you wanna think or if you feel there are 57 varieties of gender, fair enough, good for you.  I thought, until recently, gender meant whether you are a bird or a bloke with a birds or a blokes bits.  Apparently some people don't see it that way, OK, fair enough, whatever you like. 

I think tolerance all round is the order of the day, you can't bollock people into agreeing with you about the 57 genders and you can't bollock people into getting in line with the traditional boy and girl interpretation if they don't want to.  Honestly, I find it all rather tiresome and very conflicted on both sides of the argument.  For example 'oh, you're so stuck on your masculinity that you can't entertain blah blah blah blah', as if gender isn't important...but if it isn't important why the fuck are the other side so caught up in making assertions that they're like...I dunno, a non binary aubergine or whatever, I dunno. 

The problem with a subjective approach to this is that you eventually reach the following impasse:

'why should I have to tolerate your interpretion being forced on me?'

'well, why should I have to tolerate YOURS?'

And from there you go nowhere.

Edited by Len Cnut
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11 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

I don't see why people are fuckin' bothered.  Its just one of those really uninteresting things.  I can see both sides of the argument and I don't give a shit about either of em.  But end of the day its a pursuit of happiness thing to me, if you wanna think or if you feel there are 57 varieties of gender, fair enough, good for you.  I thought, until recently, gender meant whether you are a bird or a bloke with a birds or a blokes bits.  Apparently some people don't see it that way, OK, fair enough, whatever you like. 

I think tolerance all round is the order of the day, you can't bollock people into agreeing with you about the 57 genders and you can't bollock people into getting in line with the traditional boy and girl interpretation if they don't want to.  Honestly, I find it all rather tiresome and very conflicted on both sides of the argument.  For example 'oh, you're so stuck on your masculinity that you can't entertain blah blah blah blah', as if gender isn't important...but if it isn't important why the fuck are the other side so caught up in making assertions that they're like...I dunno, a non binary aubergine or whatever, I dunno. 

The problem with a subjective approach to this is that you eventually reach the following impasse:

'why should I have to tolerate your interpretion being forced on me?'

'well, why should I have to tolerate YOURS?'

And from there you go nowhere.

People can call themselves anything as far as I'm concerned. But it raises a few issues, I'm sure.

mckinnon-wins-gold.png

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1 hour ago, Len Cnut said:

The middle ones a tranny.  Never made a mistake yet :lol: Hang about actually, the one on the lefts got a nob! 

I bet the middle one just pretends to be a girl so he can hang around with the two chicks, go in their dressing room, etc. 

Edited by DieselDaisy
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13 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

I don't see why people are fuckin' bothered.  Its just one of those really uninteresting things.  I can see both sides of the argument and I don't give a shit about either of em.  But end of the day its a pursuit of happiness thing to me, if you wanna think or if you feel there are 57 varieties of gender, fair enough, good for you.  I thought, until recently, gender meant whether you are a bird or a bloke with a birds or a blokes bits.  Apparently some people don't see it that way, OK, fair enough, whatever you like. 

I think tolerance all round is the order of the day, you can't bollock people into agreeing with you about the 57 genders and you can't bollock people into getting in line with the traditional boy and girl interpretation if they don't want to.  Honestly, I find it all rather tiresome and very conflicted on both sides of the argument.  For example 'oh, you're so stuck on your masculinity that you can't entertain blah blah blah blah', as if gender isn't important...but if it isn't important why the fuck are the other side so caught up in making assertions that they're like...I dunno, a non binary aubergine or whatever, I dunno. 

The problem with a subjective approach to this is that you eventually reach the following impasse:

'why should I have to tolerate your interpretion being forced on me?'

'well, why should I have to tolerate YOURS?'

And from there you go nowhere.

Pretty much this.

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