Chris Vrenna (Nine Inch Nails) talks about Axl and working on Chinese Democracy

[GNRfanMILO]

INTERVIEW LINK

 

Ex-GN'R Drummer Says Axl Wanted to Modernize the Band With Electronica Elements in '90s: 'Moby Was Going to Produce'

"We're not a bunch of '80s strung-out-on-heroin dudes on Sunset Boulevard anymore," Chris Vrenna remembers Rose saying.

Chris Vrenna, the former Nine Inch Nails and Marilyn Manson drummer who was also briefly a member of Guns N' Roses in 1997, said Axl Rose wanted to modernize the band's sound during that time by adding elements of electronic music.

You can check out a part of the conversation with Matt Wake below.

When 'Chinese Democracy' was finally released in 2008, did you recognize any music from the period you were working with Guns N' Roses?

"Nope. Not a thing. Because by then they'd gone through nine drummers, 14 guitar players, seven producers... I kept up with it after I was there.

"When I was there, Moby was going to produce. Axl didn't come in very often; he'd show up about once a week. So sometimes we jammed. Sometimes me and Moby just sat and drank coffee and talked about music. Moby was rad.

"Can you imagine a Guns N' Roses record with [guitarist] Robin Finck and me and Moby producing? And Axl really wanted it to have an electronic element. He kept referencing the Passengers album that U2 did ['Original Soundtracks 1,' a 1995 collaborative effort of U2 and Brian Eno released under the pseudonym of Passengers] - 'It's wonderful. It's so good.' That and Nine Inch Nails.

"He thought that was where he could see the sound of Guns N' Roses going, modernizing it: 'We're not a bunch of '80s strung-out-on-heroin dudes on Sunset Boulevard anymore.' And I applauded Axl and that's why I stuck with it for as long as I did, and I got Axl's vision.

"The best time I ever had, though, was when Axl came down and he was just in the mood to play and he was like, 'Alright we're going to run 'Appetite,' top to bottom. Ready? Go!'.

"I was like, 'Holy crap.' And we played the whole album, top to bottom. The one time I got to do that. And I got home in the morning and I couldn't sleep I was so excited I got to do it. He sang half of the words, half voice - he didn't want to blow himself out. He sat and played the grand piano for some of the songs. Axl's talented, man."

What's something about Axl Rose as a day-to-day guy most people don't know?

"Just really a soft-spoken guy, very knowledgeable about music and art and film and just would like to sit around and talk about film and art, the way I talk about TV. Same kind of talk, but very soft-spoken.

"He's actually not that crazy. I think maybe he outgrew it too; like, we're all young and nuts at one time and then you eventually get older. Now Guns N' Roses goes on on-time, every time. People change.

"That's one thing about everybody you've asked me about. People grow up and people's tastes change. I don't listen to the same music now I listened to when I was 16. I don't like the same kind of movies when I was 22. Trent [Reznor]'s married and has four kids. He scores movies.

"The problem becomes this weird thing where fans don't want you to ever change what you were. They don't want [Marilyn] Manson to be anything besides 'Beautiful People,' 'Antichrist Superstar' Manson, even though Manson's going to be 50 next year.

"No one wants to see 50-year-old Manson in the same fishnets and bustier thing and jock strap. Nobody wants to see that, so let him wear a suit and a tie because he looks good in a suit in a tie.

"Let him not wear as much goofy makeup like he used to wear on 'Mechanical Animals.' You can't please anybody. A few people get lucky and can."

Edited November 4, 2018 by GNRfanMILO

[GNRfanMILO]

More from the original interview!

https://www.al.com/expo/life-and-culture/erry-2018/10/2b578ecb8a5013/why-is-nine-inch-nails-marilyn.html

Where exactly where you when Axl Rose first called you to ask about playing drums with Guns N' Roses, in 1997?

Billy (Corgan) had put me up in a hotel in New York. And I had a message on my phone and it just said, "Hello this is Axl Rose I'm looking for Chris Vrenna." And I just kept hitting repeat on the voicemail over and over and I thought, "My God, it really is him." 

And he called because at that time Robin Finck, the guitar player from Nine Inch Nails had quite Nine Inch Nails and was playing in Cirque du Soleil. Slash is already out of the band, but Duff (McKagan, classic-era GNR bassist) was still there though. But (GNR) all came down to see Cirque du Soleil and I don't know how they recognized Robin. And they waited after the show and tracked him down and he went and joined Guns N Roses. So, Robin was the new Slash. And the next person to leave (GNR) was Matt Sorum, the drummer, so that's when I got the call.  

Axl, I love that guy. His musical tastes were far more advanced than his fanbase's. He loved Nine Inch Nails. He's wearing the white SIN shirt in one of their videos that was one of our tour shirts. And he loved the Passengers (album "Original Soundtracks 1") that U2 did (with Brian Eno). I got asked to go down and ended up sitting in and the next thing you know six or eight months later, I was still there. 

So, Guns N' Roses during that time was you, Axl, Robin, Duff McKagan, (keyboardist) Dizzy Reed and (guitarist and Rose's childhood friend from Indiana) Paul Huge?

Yep.

Was the former Pearl Jam drummer Dave Abbruzzese working with GNR during your time with them?

Dave Abbruzzese was after me and then after Dave was Joey (Castillo). And then Joey was the drummer for quite a while and then Joey ended up playing for Queens of the Stone Age after that.

What facility did the Guns N' Roses sessions take place at? 

It was in Santa Monica, a rehearsal room. A big famous rehearsal room but he had brought in a portable recording stuff, because it was all jamming, trying to come up with parts. There were no songs written or anything, so every single thing that was played in the room got recorded just in case somebody came up with something good. It was nuts. Axl was like a night owl so you'd go down there at like seven o'clock and you were there until sunrise, five nights a week. 

What did those proto-"Chinese Democracy" Guns N' Roses jams sound like, that you were a part of?

It was a little all over the place. And Paul (Huge) made it change a little bit. By that time everything was so fractured, and everybody had an opinion of what the band should do. After Duff left, that really bummed me out. Because Duff was a good hang and he was the last thread to the first record. 

After he left I even had a talk with Axl one time like, "You know, you're changing the sound of the band and it's really just you and we're all new dudes and we all come from cool places. But have you ever thought of just saying, f--- Guns N Roses. That name is dead. The band is over. We are now called 'blank.'"

And he goes, "Yeah you're not the first person who's told me I should probably do that. But Guns N' Roses is an international brand name, and to start over when I can just use the brand name that everybody knows, I can't sacrifice the branding that's already been established."

And I got his argument for not changing the name. But I also firmly believed in what I was saying. If Axl Rose came out and said, "Look, man. Everybody's quit the band. If I call this Guns N' Roses you guys are going to laugh at me," which a lot of people did. Because it's not what we know as Guns N Roses, so call it something new. You're Axl Rose, it will be big and people will know that new logo and that new name and that new whatever. 

When "Chinese Democracy" first came out, without Slash there I didn't give it a fair shot, but over the years I've grown to like it.

If I was a die-hard fan, I wouldn't want Tommy Stinson (on bass) and Brain on drums and Robin Fink and Buckethead (on guitar).

Was Buckethead around for any of the Guns N' Roses stuff you were?

No, Buckethead came way later. 

Edited November 4, 2018 by GNRfanMILO

[RussTCB]

edit-

My bad.....there was a thread on this already but it was removed for various reasons. I'm unlocking this one

[Draguns]

Axl should have listened to Vrenna. If anything, he should have just done his own solo record  while keeping GNR intact. I know that there were a plethora of issues, but this definitely seems like one of them. Axl wouldn't have to worry about a brand since he IS a household name and would have had his own brand. As a hardcore GNR fan since 87, I may have been more open to electronic elements if he had a solo band. With him trying to incorporate it in GNR music, it just didn't work due to expectations of what you think about when you hear the name: Guns N' Roses. 

[-W.A.R-]

Quote

Axl, I love that guy. His musical tastes were far more advanced than his fanbase's.

ouch

[soon]

1 hour ago, Draguns said:

Axl should have listened to Vrenna. If anything, he should have just done his own solo record  while keeping GNR intact. I know that there were a plethora of issues, but this definitely seems like one of them. Axl wouldn't have to worry about a brand since he IS a household name and would have had his own brand. As a hardcore GNR fan since 87, I may have been more open to electronic elements if he had a solo band. With him trying to incorporate it in GNR music, it just didn't work due to expectations of what you think about when you hear the name: Guns N' Roses. 

I agree. But its a tough position though, because with out the GNR name, the record company advance would be much smaller. And with a smaller advance Axl couldn't afford these top shelf musicians, state of the art equipment and technicians or the extended time frame.

I have in mind a Pink Floyd album form the 80s called A Momentary Lapse of Reasoning. (sorry I dont know if you know all about floyd, but Ill explain in case) The main writer had left and the co front man Gilmour wanted to do a solo album. He got underway and the record company said if you call this Pink Floyd will give you this massive advance. Because the company felt at risk of loosing the band Pink Floyd all together. So Gilmour continued making a solo album, that isnt all that similar to Floyd in ways, and just tacked on the two other members in minimal ways. It was a smash success and Pink Floyd toured the worlds Stadiums, playing a Gilmour solo album by a different name. 

 

[rocknroll41]

4 hours ago, GNRfanMILO said:

More from the original interview!

https://www.al.com/expo/life-and-culture/erry-2018/10/2b578ecb8a5013/why-is-nine-inch-nails-marilyn.html

Where exactly where you when Axl Rose first called you to ask about playing drums with Guns N' Roses, in 1997?

Billy (Corgan) had put me up in a hotel in New York. And I had a message on my phone and it just said, "Hello this is Axl Rose I'm looking for Chris Vrenna."

So Axl enlisted Billy Corgan to help him find Chris? Im a little confused about this part. If I recall correctly Zig Zag said recently that Axl didn't like Corgan.

[zombux]

I probably only remember one band which managed to transform themselves from hairspray rock into heavier stuff with electro and industrial vibe. 

that band was called Shotgun Messiah and what they did on Violent New Breed was super cool.

interestingly, the album came out in 1993 - much much earlier than everybody went nuts about industrial stuff

[Azifwekare]

1 hour ago, -W.A.R- said:

ouch

Kinda true though tbf

[themadcaplaughs]

1 hour ago, rocknroll41 said:

So Axl enlisted Billy Corgan to help him find Chris? Im a little confused about this part. If I recall correctly Zig Zag said recently that Axl didn't like Corgan.

Vrenna did some programming work for Smashing Pumpkins. Right off the bat, I know he worked on the remix CD for "The End is the Beginning is the End" (great song at the end of Batman & Robin- one of the worst movies of all time). He also performed a few awards shows with the band around that time. My guess would be Axl knew the band was staying in a certain hotel prior to an awards show, and just reached out. 

[Lies They Tell]

Interesting stuff! 

[Ratam]

Vrenna sound like very smart guy.

[TeeJay410]

7 hours ago, Azifwekare said:

Kinda true though tbf

True, I mean grab the average person you see in a guns shirt and ask their feelings on Brian Eno.

[History2010]

10 hours ago, -W.A.R- said:

ouch

He's absolutely right. CD is way beyond what your average AFD fan would enjoy. 

[thunderram]

The notion that a band needs to change with the times is laughable.

The Rolling Stones, Aerosmith and AC/DC have been doing the same thing for upwards of 50 years and seem to still be doing just fine. The Beatles last album was released in 1970, yet they remain as popular and influential as ever. In 2016, 3/5 of original GN'R lineup awoke from a 23-year 'COMA' to produce the 4th highest tour of all-time doing what they did 25 and 30 years ago.

While the members of GN'R surely aren't "a bunch of '80s strung-out-on-heroin dudes on Sunset Boulevard anymore", the attitude they had at that time and the music they created during that era is what people remember most. It's what made the band a household name.

While new music would certainly be nice, the musical formula and style doesn't have to be drastically different. In fact, that's typically a recipe for failure. Hip Hop and modern country are quite popular these days, but does anyone believe GN'R should go that direction? Adding an 'electronic element' back in the late 90's would have been just as silly and ridiculous. That sound was never 'Guns N' Roses' and never will be. If AXL truly wanted to make that kind of music, or if he still does, he give it an appropriate name other than GN'R.

Mike Patton creates a lot of different types and styles of music aside from what he contributes to 'Faith No More'. And all of those differing styles are released under a different name. Because it's not FNM.

It's one thing to create new music that is current to what the band is like now, but an entirely different thing to go from a true rock and roll band to something electronic. Or whatever the trends might be today.

I'm so glad the musicians I loved from the 60's and early 70's never went 'disco' and stayed true to themselves and their fans.

[Rovim]

It's cool that every Guns album has it's own distinct vibe. If you keep the crucial elements of a band's sound it's possible to play with different styles and still keep the integrity of the formula. with each Guns release Guns lost a major ingredient. with UYI it was the missing guitar interplay and Steven's style of playing. Lies they went acoustic and released an entire album of covers. 

so it could be totally natural for them to throw in a few covers for example or an acoustic tune and now it will be totally natural to create a new melting pot as always but wait Slash and Duff to make it rock harder and more Guns but also for mellisa to add synths and soundscapes like Pitman did. they have  an artistic license to create whatever album they all agree on a musical level even under the brand's name but I think Axl is good at balancing new experiments with old school sounding Guns tunes and Slash's guitar is a huge part of the Gn'R sound as it is.

[Intercourse]

I still think with the right management and producers they could have done something amazing for its time.

Take CD, Walking Papers, Contraband and a bunch of dark electronic textures... all output from each of the main guys throw in a blender and I bet some incredible songs would have come out.

Nobody seemed to have the power to bring each man to a place in the middle, a neutral ground where they could lay their best work down and get it built upon rather than slated by each other.

 

[Sydney Fan]

4 hours ago, thunderram said:

The notion that a band needs to change with the times is laughable.

The Rolling Stones, Aerosmith and AC/DC have been doing the same thing for upwards of 50 years and seem to still be doing just fine. The Beatles last album was released in 1970, yet they remain as popular and influential as ever. In 2016, 3/5 of original GN'R lineup awoke from a 23-year 'COMA' to produce the 4th highest tour of all-time doing what they did 25 and 30 years ago.

While the members of GN'R surely aren't "a bunch of '80s strung-out-on-heroin dudes on Sunset Boulevard anymore", the attitude they had at that time and the music they created during that era is what people remember most. It's what made the band a household name.

While new music would certainly be nice, the musical formula and style doesn't have to be drastically different. In fact, that's typically a recipe for failure. Hip Hop and modern country are quite popular these days, but does anyone believe GN'R should go that direction? Adding an 'electronic element' back in the late 90's would have been just as silly and ridiculous. That sound was never 'Guns N' Roses' and never will be. If AXL truly wanted to make that kind of music, or if he still does, he give it an appropriate name other than GN'R.

Mike Patton creates a lot of different types and styles of music aside from what he contributes to 'Faith No More'. And all of those differing styles are released under a different name. Because it's not FNM.

It's one thing to create new music that is current to what the band is like now, but an entirely different thing to go from a true rock and roll band to something electronic. Or whatever the trends might be today.

I'm so glad the musicians I loved from the 60's and early 70's never went 'disco' and stayed true to themselves and their fans.

"'m so glad the musicians I loved from the 60's and early 70's never went 'disco' and stayed true to themselves and their fans"

KISS had a good go of it for the dynasty album.

[©GnrPersia]

So Axl wanted to modernize the sound and he was like "Alright we're going to run Appetite, top to bottom. Ready? Go!"

 

Why do I get a sense that he was just "talking" about modernizing it but he was lazy as fuck to bring in new ideas and solutions?

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by ©GnrPersia

[wasted]

31 minutes ago, ©GnrPersia said:

So Axl wanted to modernize the sound and he was like "Alright we're going to run Appetite, top to bottom. Ready? Go!"

 

Why do I get a sense that he was just "talking" about modernizing it but he was lazy as fuck to bring in new ideas and solutions?

 

Dr Dre motherfucker

[jacdaniel]

This is the most depressing thread ever because it led to the band breaking up. 

Axl is so confusing. He wanted to evolve but at the same time wanted to jam AFD and eventually rerecorded it and toured it for decades. 

After finally releasing Chinese, he seems to have scrapped Chinese 2 in favour of ACDC and Guns reunion. 

I don't think he really knows what he wants. And that's the reason nothing ever happens.

[Rovim]

1 hour ago, Intercourse said:

I still think with the right management and producers they could have done something amazing for its time.

Take CD, Walking Papers, Contraband and a bunch of dark electronic textures... all output from each of the main guys throw in a blender and I bet some incredible songs would have come out.

Nobody seemed to have the power to bring each man to a place in the middle, a neutral ground where they could lay their best work down and get it built upon rather than slated by each other.

 

Still...It's not too late for them to create another great Guns album but looking forward I think Axl will have to be late as shit first and only then release something that will test the boundaries of time and now it seems Slash willing to play ball. butYou either got it or you ain't. takes time to produce something good enough to stand next to the rest of the albums in the catalog. when/if they get to the finish line Axl will want to release it.

A lot of time was wasted but at least a lot of work have been already recorded from the chinese days and everyone is getting along fine. it's a big machine that makes a lot of money so it rolls slow but I don't believe Axl has already released his final artistic statement. Not when Slash and Duff are back and it seems like he believes in this line up.

[papashaun]

Was Chris Vrenna really quoted as saying, "Moby was rad?" 

[Azifwekare]

10 hours ago, thunderram said:

The notion that a band needs to change with the times is laughable.

The Rolling Stones, Aerosmith and AC/DC have been doing the same thing for upwards of 50 years and seem to still be doing just fine. The Beatles last album was released in 1970, yet they remain as popular and influential as ever. In 2016, 3/5 of original GN'R lineup awoke from a 23-year 'COMA' to produce the 4th highest tour of all-time doing what they did 25 and 30 years ago.

Yeah, because AC/DC are so unique and interesting. You never know what you're gonna get with those guys. Not everyone is satisfied with listening to the same generic riffs for 40+ years. 

The Beatles work with George Martin was revolutionary in the 60s, but music and production has progressed so far since then that the same sound and production values would just be weak and, to be brutally honest, laughable 50 years later. Aerosmith have experimented with modern production over the years - critics pissed all over the Just Push Play album but fuck those guys, big kudos to the 'Smith for doing whatever they wanted. Even the Stones, or Mick Jagger at least, have mixed it up every now and then.

If GN'R don't go balls out on CD2, I at least hope the next album will be somewhere between UYI and CD. If we just get a Slash album with Axl vocals or an AFD rehash, it would just be sad.

[Rovim]

Just now, Azifwekare said:

Yeah, because AC/DC are so unique and interesting. You never know what you're gonna get with those guys. Not everyone is satisfied with listening to the same generic riffs for 40+ years. 

The Beatles work with George Martin was revolutionary in the 60s, but music and production has progressed so far since then that the same sound and production values would just be weak and, to be brutally honest, laughable 50 years later. Aerosmith have experimented with modern production over the years - critics pissed all over the Just Push Play album but fuck those guys, big kudos to the 'Smith for doing whatever they wanted. Even the Stones, or Mick Jagger at least, have mixed it up every now and then.

If GN'R don't go balls out on CD2, I at least hope the next album will be somewhere between UYI and CD. If we just get a Slash album with Axl vocals or an AFD rehash, it would just be sad.

both approaches can work to form great catalogs of music. sometimes thanks to bands like AC/DC we have bands that took that sound and expanded on it so it doesn't have to be the responsibility of one band to bring evolution upon us. I prefer diverse artists that don't stagnate at least.