Special Alert for GNR Fans!

[Sweersa]

13 minutes ago, BadApples99 said:

You can't compare the red hand cover chinese democracy with a cassette that has been reissued til death..

By that logic, one could say there's millions of Chinese Democracy CDs out there.

[RussTCB]

1 hour ago, Sweersa said:

I'm not forcing anyone to buy anything. I spent hours of my time, gas, and money acquiring the tapes, but even if they fell from the sky into my hands at no cost of effort on my part, people pay what they want to get what they want. It happens in just about every transaction in our developed world. 

Just like the guys who lucked out and came across boxes of the Chinese Democracy "Cover B" (red hand)  and sold them off for $$$ or more for each one. Some buyer had the money, and wanted to part for it for something cool and unusual for their collection.  I was one of those buyers, and love it displayed framed in my house.

Those guys lucked into those copies. I know that for a fact because I know one of them personally. 

They didn't go out of their way to buy up items in order to rip off other fans, then justify it as capitalism. 

[Stiff Competition]

Re-selling is totally cool in my book. As collectors and concert-goers, etc, if there is an opportunity to help fund other things we desire, why the hell not go for it? Quite frankly that is often part of being a collector.

Sure we can say we are all a "community" but at the end of the day, aside form the few you actually know or meet at shows that are cool, there is no reason to have any kind of allegiance to other fans of a band you like.

 

[Sweersa]

7 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Those guys lucked into those copies. I know that for a fact because I know one of them personally. 

They didn't go out of their way to buy up items in order to rip off other fans, then justify it as capitalism. 

I could argue I lucked into the knowledge of knowing what Target has, acquiring them, and holding them for future sale. There's really no difference.  Capitalism, as you describe though it's no excuse for me, I'd do it regardless of the market or government authority, and have for years with many things. You can call it what you want. There's no ethical or legal dilemma. I'm not operating a charity for GNR fans.

I don't see it as a rip off when people willfully pay for it.  I'm not selling cases of water in a crisis situation for $40 a case during a natural disaster here. 

What I describe is no different from people who buy and sell antiques or Star Wars action figures. It's a hobby more than anything.  I realize this concept may be odd in a foreign nation, but in America a lot of people have disposal incomes so they spent money on non-essentials that interest them, like collectibles, memorabilia, etc. It's a hobby for some, a business for others. 

[RussTCB]

1 minute ago, Sweersa said:

I could argue I lucked into the knowledge of knowing what Target has, acquiring them, and holding them for future sale. There's really no difference.  Capitalism, as you describe though it's no excuse for me, I'd do it regardless of the market or government authority, and have for years with many things. You can call it what you want. There's no ethical or legal dilemma. I'm not operating a charity for GNR fans.

I don't see it as a rip off when people willfully pay for it.  I'm not selling cases of water in a crisis situation for $40 a case during a natural disaster here. 

What I describe is no different from people who buy and sell antiques or Star Wars action figures. It's a hobby more than anything.  I realize this concept may be odd in a foreign nation, but in America a lot of people have disposal incomes so they spent money on non-essentials that interest them, like collectibles, memorabilia, etc. It's a hobby for some, a business for others. 

I'm pretty sure capitalism is a concept most of the Earth is familiar with lol. Not sure why location would matter, but I personally am from and continue to live in the US. 

I'm well aware of what & how people rip others off on eBay. I get it but it doesn't mean I (or anyone else) have to approve of it. 

Like I said, that's just my opinion. I would never consider doing that to another fan. You're doing it and seem to be proud of it, so good for you I guess? Maybe just expect some push back on a fan forum where most or all of us would never consider going out of our way to take regular priced items off the shelf with the expressed intent of flipping them to other fans for a big profit. 

[Sweersa]

32 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

I'm pretty sure capitalism is a concept most of the Earth is familiar with lol. Not sure why location would matter, but I personally am from and continue to live in the US. 

I'm well aware of what & how people rip others off on eBay. I get it but it doesn't mean I (or anyone else) have to approve of it. 

Like I said, that's just my opinion. I would never consider doing that to another fan. You're doing it and seem to be proud of it, so good for you I guess? Maybe just expect some push back on a fan forum where most or all of us would never consider going out of our way to take regular priced items off the shelf with the expressed intent of flipping them to other fans for a big profit. 

Can you explain to me how someone willfully buying something on eBay is being ripped off? Maybe they don't have a Target in their location, maybe they are unable to make it to Target, and would prefer to order it online.

There's no deception at all in such a transaction.

Market value. If I buy something for $100 in 2006, and then want to sell it in 2011 for whatever reason, and the market value of that particular item is now $250, and I sell it for around that. I don't see how that would be ripping someone off. Early adopters of Bitcoin who made thousands or more never ripped anyone off by making an investment choice.  Some were lucky and just happened to buy a little for whatever reason, others were smart enough to realize the potential with it. It makes no difference really. 

So in short, someone willfully paying for something accurately represented in a listing (ie: not a counterfeit or having concealed defects, etc.) is not being ripped off. I'm not sure how I can make this any more clear.

 

[RussTCB]

25 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

Can you explain to me how someone willfully buying something on eBay is being ripped off? Maybe they don't have a Target in their location, maybe they are unable to make it to Target, and would prefer to order it online.

There's no deception at all in such a transaction.

Market value. If I buy something for $100 in 2006, and then want to sell it in 2011 for whatever reason, and the market value of that particular item is now $250, and I sell it for around that. I don't see how that would be ripping someone off. Early adopters of Bitcoin who made thousands or more never ripped anyone off by making an investment choice.  Some were lucky and just happened to buy a little for whatever reason, others were smart enough to realize the potential with it. It makes no difference really. 

So in short, someone willfully paying for something accurately represented in a listing (ie: not a counterfeit or having concealed defects, etc.) is not being ripped off. I'm not sure how I can make this any more clear.

 

Come on........you know what you're doing. You don't need me to explain it to you like you're not fully aware of what you're doing. You've detailed how you've gone out of your way to buy up the cassettes in your area with the intent of marking them up and selling them to other fans.

[Sweersa]

21 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Come on........you know what you're doing. You don't need me to explain it to you like you're not fully aware of what you're doing. You've detailed how you've gone out of your way to buy up the cassettes in your area with the intent of marking them up and selling them to other fans.

Of course I know what I'm doing. I see a market opportunity, and seize it. Nothing wrong with that. There are customers out there willing to pay current market value for items that are not easy to obtain to them. Simple economics. Plus, it's fun. Maybe I can use a few in my stockpile a few years from now to trade for more interesting GNR items. Maybe someone will take advantage of me and trade Buckethead's Shackler's Revenge for one effectively "ripping me off" by trading a digital asset for physical items.  Haha

[RussTCB]

26 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

Of course I know what I'm doing. I see a market opportunity, and seize it. Nothing wrong with that. There are customers out there willing to pay current market value for items that are not easy to obtain to them. Simple economics. Plus, it's fun. Maybe I can use a few in my stockpile a few years from now to trade for more interesting GNR items. Maybe someone will take advantage of me and trade Buckethead's Shackler's Revenge for one effectively "ripping me off" by trading a digital asset for physical items.  Haha

Like I said, I understand capitalism and of course you're welcome to do it. I just wouldn't be so surprised by fans on a fan forum pointing out that they don't like what you're doing. 

[killuridols]

Personally, I wouldn't pay one cent for these shitty cassettes. I threw all my original cassettes away when I replaced them for CD's  and will prolly throw CD's away too sometime in the future.... (but maybe this guy just gave me an idea )

[allwaystired]

11 hours ago, Sweersa said:

Can you explain to me how someone willfully buying something on eBay is being ripped off? Maybe they don't have a Target in their location, maybe they are unable to make it to Target, and would prefer to order it online.

There's no deception at all in such a transaction.

Market value. If I buy something for $100 in 2006, and then want to sell it in 2011 for whatever reason, and the market value of that particular item is now $250, and I sell it for around that. I don't see how that would be ripping someone off. Early adopters of Bitcoin who made thousands or more never ripped anyone off by making an investment choice.  Some were lucky and just happened to buy a little for whatever reason, others were smart enough to realize the potential with it. It makes no difference really. 

So in short, someone willfully paying for something accurately represented in a listing (ie: not a counterfeit or having concealed defects, etc.) is not being ripped off. I'm not sure how I can make this any more clear.

 

we all understand what you're doing - we're just mocking you for it. If you want to spend your free time driving round Target's trying to keep cassettes out of the hands of people that might want to buy them - that's your look out. But please don't think you're some sort of genius businessman for doing it, as you really aren't. You're the equivalent of the kid at school that buys all the chocolate bars up, and then doesn't understand why the other kids make fun of him. And also please don't think many people on a GNR fan forum are going to pat you on the back for it. 

I think most people find 'investments' and 'market value' debates to be the sort of think they turn to music to avoid and put two fingers up at. You can sit in your bedroom cackling and rubbing your hands in glee that you've picked up some cassettes, and aren't you SO clever for doing so. The rest of us will laugh at you for failing to get the point of music. 

On another note...I cant understand why anyone would want these things. The exact same album on plastic that's tinted blue? I'll pass and spend my money on an album I don't already have! 

[IncitingChaos]

My target had 1 cassette and 1 vinyl. I just got the red vinyl. I thought it looked cool

[Evan442]

On 11/12/2018 at 3:11 PM, RussTCB said:

Those guys lucked into those copies. I know that for a fact because I know one of them personally. 

They didn't go out of their way to buy up items in order to rip off other fans, then justify it as capitalism. 

How'd they find a box of them?  I know they're promo copies, but wondering how many they pressed

On 11/12/2018 at 4:09 PM, Sweersa said:

Maybe they don't have a Target in their location, maybe they are unable to make it to Target, and would prefer to order it online.

Put it on eBay as a Buy it Now for what you paid for it in stores then

[RussTCB]

1 hour ago, Evan442 said:

How'd they find a box of them?  I know they're promo copies, but wondering how many they pressed

The two people I know personally who had them worked for Universal in some capacity. I can tell you that a LOT of Red Hand CDs were made. There's probably boxes and boxes sitting in closets because the people that have them have no idea anyone would care about them. 

[gunsguy]

22 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

The two people I know personally who had them worked for Universal in some capacity. I can tell you that a LOT of Red Hand CDs were made. There's probably boxes and boxes sitting in closets because the people that have them have no idea anyone would care about them. 

You are right there are many boxes of them.

[Evan442]

51 minutes ago, gunsguy said:

You are right there are many boxes of them.

Wonder how many.  I always thought it was weird when someone said years ago about 100 exist...why would they go through all that trouble at a pressing plant for only 100 or so

[DieselDaisy]

It's like the lithograph thing where some bugger gets to the venue early and snaps up every one. 

[Sweersa]

21 hours ago, Evan442 said:

How'd they find a box of them?  I know they're promo copies, but wondering how many they pressed

Put it on eBay as a Buy it Now for what you paid for it in stores then

Who knows how they found them. If it was me, I wouldn't tell as most the people here would expect me to give them away. Most I've seen have a little hole drilled into them to denote it was never for sale (promo).  I'm not sure if any made it to the sales floor, but they do have the Best Buy stickers on the wrapping. 

I'm not a charity. Selling something for significantly less than current market value is idiotic, unless of course they need to be moved fast, even at a loss. But I wont get into business or economics here, clearly not the right forum for such topics of discussion. 

[RussTCB]

6 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

Who knows how they found them. If it was me, I wouldn't tell as most the people here would expect me to give them away. Most I've seen have a little hole drilled into them to denote it was never for sale (promo).  I'm not sure if any made it to the sales floor, but they do have the Best Buy stickers on the wrapping. 

I'm not a charity. Selling something for significantly less than current market value is idiotic, unless of course they need to be moved fast, even at a loss. But I wont get into business or economics here, clearly not the right forum for such topics of discussion. 

I'm guessing that last part is supposed to be an attempt at an insult towards the users here. 

As a reminder: everyone you're speaking to understands capitalism. It's not a lack of understanding of the concept that's caused an issue. It's the fact that many people simply don't approve of what you're doing. 

For the record, I was given 3 Red Hand CDs from the from one of the first boxes found. I kept one for myself as a collectible. Then I gave the other two away to fans that I knew would love them. 

That doesn't mean that I don't understand capitalism (read: how to make a quick buck off a fellow fan), it just means that I'm not interested in doing that. 

[Sweersa]

11 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

I'm guessing that last part is supposed to be an attempt at an insult towards the users here. 

As a reminder: everyone you're speaking to understands capitalism. It's not a lack of understanding of the concept that's caused an issue. It's the fact that many people simply don't approve of what you're doing. 

For the record, I was given 3 Red Hand CDs from the from one of the first boxes found. I kept one for myself as a collectible. Then I gave the other two away to fans that I knew would love them. 

That doesn't mean that I don't understand capitalism (read: how to make a quick buck off a fellow fan), it just means that I'm not interested in doing that. 

I wasn't talking to you, but since you engaged...

I've given away copies of CD (though not the red hand, only ever had one), and even GN'R singles before to casual fans, among other things, including highly interesting items not available to the public to individuals I trust. I've offered one of my new blue AFDs cassettes to someone as a gift, but they didn't want it. It's not that I am not generous, I simply enjoyed the thrill of the hunt for finding these tapes, will keep at least two for myself and will move a few to recoup my investment, and the rest I'll save for years to later sell. Maybe they will be worth less than I paid for the, maybe ten times what I paid, I'm not banking on them, but my instinct tells me they will be worth far more. I'm doing and have done the same thing with Jurassic Park toys.  I've done it with Star Wars things, firearms parts, fixing and selling classic video game systems, even soda. I literally have boxes of this stuff in my house to later sell, or enjoy, then sell later. Just something I do. It's fun for me, and I make a little money doing it and my customers are happy.  I've been paid $45 for a single can (well, several cans over the years) discontinued soda I bought and saved years ago and they send me letters thanking me, one guy even sent me some soda in return along with a thank you. No one is being ripped off in these situations.  I've paid crazy amounts of money for things that people have bought for several times less than what they cost years ago.  It's all current market value, driven by supply and demand, which you understand based on your statements. 

Different strokes for different folks, I suppose. I'm not the Robin Hood of the online GN'R community. If I was, you would know, believe me. Such expectations of people being so open with items they have acquired (by any means) or under trust is likely a contributing factor to why so many things that are circulating amongst a select few here are not available to the public.

[RussTCB]

12 hours ago, Sweersa said:

I wasn't talking to you, but since you engaged...

I've given away copies of CD (though not the red hand, only ever had one), and even GN'R singles before to casual fans, among other things, including highly interesting items not available to the public to individuals I trust. I've offered one of my new blue AFDs cassettes to someone as a gift, but they didn't want it. It's not that I am not generous, I simply enjoyed the thrill of the hunt for finding these tapes, will keep at least two for myself and will move a few to recoup my investment, and the rest I'll save for years to later sell. Maybe they will be worth less than I paid for the, maybe ten times what I paid, I'm not banking on them, but my instinct tells me they will be worth far more. I'm doing and have done the same thing with Jurassic Park toys.  I've done it with Star Wars things, firearms parts, fixing and selling classic video game systems, even soda. I literally have boxes of this stuff in my house to later sell, or enjoy, then sell later. Just something I do. It's fun for me, and I make a little money doing it and my customers are happy.  I've been paid $45 for a single can (well, several cans over the years) discontinued soda I bought and saved years ago and they send me letters thanking me, one guy even sent me some soda in return along with a thank you. No one is being ripped off in these situations.  I've paid crazy amounts of money for things that people have bought for several times less than what they cost years ago.  It's all current market value, driven by supply and demand, which you understand based on your statements. 

Different strokes for different folks, I suppose. I'm not the Robin Hood of the online GN'R community. If I was, you would know, believe me. Such expectations of people being so open with items they have acquired (by any means) or under trust is likely a contributing factor to why so many things that are circulating amongst a select few here are not available to the public.

You made a post on a public forum, so you should expect that you're addressing everyone

Again... we all understand how the market for these things work, so there's no need to keep explaining it. You seem to not be able to understand how people on a fan forum wouldn't care or want to hear about how much money you're making by obtaining, then marking up GN'R items to sell to other fans. I'm sure everyone on this board has seen eBay, Discogs and every other site where these types of things happen. Many people on here have probably over paid for items through those channels. So again.... we get it, but we don't have to approve of it. 

Also, the hoarding of GN'R material has little to nothing to do with this. First of all, there's no longer "so many things circulating amongst a select few". Most or all of the unreleased material or things people would actually care about how been obtained and shared. The VMA Rehearsals are just about the only thing that haven't been shared widely. Most of the fans couldn't care less to watch that, let alone pay anywhere near the last price that was posted for that. 

[ZoSoRose]

Maybe if we are lucky GNR will release a cassette for every color of the rainbow. Each one could be at a different store and they could markup the prices even more

[allwaystired]

15 hours ago, Sweersa said:

I wasn't talking to you, but since you engaged...

I've given away copies of CD (though not the red hand, only ever had one), and even GN'R singles before to casual fans, among other things, including highly interesting items not available to the public to individuals I trust. I've offered one of my new blue AFDs cassettes to someone as a gift, but they didn't want it. It's not that I am not generous, I simply enjoyed the thrill of the hunt for finding these tapes, will keep at least two for myself and will move a few to recoup my investment, and the rest I'll save for years to later sell. Maybe they will be worth less than I paid for the, maybe ten times what I paid, I'm not banking on them, but my instinct tells me they will be worth far more. I'm doing and have done the same thing with Jurassic Park toys.  I've done it with Star Wars things, firearms parts, fixing and selling classic video game systems, even soda. I literally have boxes of this stuff in my house to later sell, or enjoy, then sell later. Just something I do. It's fun for me, and I make a little money doing it and my customers are happy.  I've been paid $45 for a single can (well, several cans over the years) discontinued soda I bought and saved years ago and they send me letters thanking me, one guy even sent me some soda in return along with a thank you. No one is being ripped off in these situations.  I've paid crazy amounts of money for things that people have bought for several times less than what they cost years ago.  It's all current market value, driven by supply and demand, which you understand based on your statements. 

Different strokes for different folks, I suppose. I'm not the Robin Hood of the online GN'R community. If I was, you would know, believe me. Such expectations of people being so open with items they have acquired (by any means) or under trust is likely a contributing factor to why so many things that are circulating amongst a select few here are not available to the public.

No, it's not a contributing factor at all - in fact it's the opposite. The reason things WEREN'T circulating was because people were trying to put monetary value on things and keep them worth money. As soon as that particular set of dis-likable individuals had their world bust wide open, and the fans got material, it was shared. For free. Hence those individuals fury and the aggressive tactics used to attempt to keep that material worth something. 

What you're talking about is doing things like turning up first at a gig, buying all the lithos, keeping them out of others hands, then feeling smug about it. You can understand why people on a fan forum might find that sort of behaviour, at best, pathetic. You're not going to get a pat on the back for it- you're also unlikely to find yourself front of the queue when it comes to fans sharing things and helping out other fans. 

Most people have zero interest in trying to make profit by keeping things out of others hands. That's an entirely normal way for fans to behave in relation to each other. I had people, from this forum and from HTGTH (that I'm more active on) send me things from the tour I wanted and you know what? They didn't charge me a penny more than they cost them. I've done the same for people. Sure you can say "you're stupid for doing that, current market value, etc etc" but you know something else? Most fans couldn't give a flying fuck about trying to make a few dollars out of another fan. I guess it's kind of the point of a 'fan forum': discuss stuff and communicate with people who feel as passionately as you do. Why the hell would I then want to make money out of them? 

Keep going with your little 'buy and sell operation' if it makes you happy. Don't expect us to respect you for it though. 

 

[Ratam]

3 hours ago, ZoSoRose said:

Maybe if we are lucky GNR will release a cassette for every color of the rainbow. Each one could be at a different store and they could markup the prices even more

Special cassette for the pride gay march❓🌈

[GoBucky]

On 11/7/2018 at 8:04 AM, lukepowell1988 said:

Just Hipsters looking for there next hit 

Exactly right...I've been collecting vinyl my whole life and used to be able to walk out of a record store with a dozen albums for $20...now you can barely get one for $20 because the hipsters have driven the prices through the roof and the bands caught on.