Malibu orders evacuation due to fire

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

That's because there's an assumed hypocrisy in Slash advocating teetotalism, there is no such perceived hypocrisy in Axl being opposed to the federal budget. It doesn't contradict with our perception on who Axl is, it doesn't result in a reassessment, but a refined (in the sense of more detailed) understanding of him. 

Rose however has been tweeting about Donald Trump for the last few years pertaining to all manner of stuff, sexual misconduct allegations, Judicial machinations, etc., not just the federal budget.

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

Axl talking politics doesn't make Guns N' Roses into a political band.

Pertaining to topicality they are not really an anything band seeing as they don't release albums!

[SoulMonster]

Just now, mikeman5150 said:

 I disagree.  90% of axl,s tweets in the last two years have been politically driven. Bringing a piñata of the president on stage to beat open during a concert doesn't put them in that catagory? 

It puts HIM in that category, but not Guns N' Roses. 

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

Rose however has been tweeting about Donald Trump for the last few years pertaining to all manner of stuff, sexual misconduct allegations, Judicial machinations, etc., not just the federal budget.

Pertaining to topicality they are not really an anything band seeing as they don't release albums!

Has Axl tweeted to Trump about sexual misconduct? That COULD be perceived as hypocritical. But has he really?

And you don't need to release anything to be a band.

[mikeman5150]

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

It puts HIM in that category, but not Guns N' Roses. 

Has Axl tweeted to Trump about sexual misconduct? That COULD be perceived as hypocritical. But has he really?

And you don't need to release anything to be a band.

During the piñata, the whole band was there. Also, for years on this forum, many argued that Axl was guns n roses. Not sure where you lie on that one.

[DieselDaisy]

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

It puts HIM in that category, but not Guns N' Roses. 

Has Axl tweeted to Trump about sexual misconduct? That COULD be perceived as hypocritical. But has he really?

I'm sure he has. In fact I have a vague memory of it around the Stormy Daniels' thing, but to prove it would require wading through the diarrhea that compromises Rose's tweeter feed, and that I leave to hardier souls than myself. 

5 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

And you don't need to release anything to be a band.

That is why I said ''pertaining to topicality''.

[SoulMonster]

Just now, mikeman5150 said:

During the piñata, the whole band was there. Also, for years on this forum, many argued that Axl was guns n roses. Not sure where you lie on that one.

True, that piñata episode was a turn towards becoming a political band. And as stated before by someone else, Axl has used the stage to discuss topics that are political in tangents, before. So nothing new there, really. But I wouldn't say this suffices to make Guns N' Roses into a political band. 

Guns N' Roses to me has always been "whoever has been in the band".

[SoulMonster]

4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I'm sure he has. In fact I have a vague memory of it around the Stormy Daniels' thing, but to prove it would require wading through the diarrhea that compromises Rose's tweeter feed, and that I leave to hardier souls than myself. 

I did a quick scan without seeing anything. He did congratulate women on the International Women's Day, or something, though. Could have missed it. 

Anyway, this discussion was about Axl tweeting about the Federal budget re: the fires in California. I don't find that at all contrary to my perceptions of who Axl is, it doesn't result in me having to reassess anything. And no, Axl's personal tweets doesn't make GN'R into a political band.

[DieselDaisy]

8 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I did a quick scan without seeing anything. He did congratulate women on the International Women's Day, or something, though. Could have missed it. 

Anyway, this discussion was about Axl tweeting about the Federal budget re: the fires in California. I don't find that at all contrary to my perceptions of who Axl is, it doesn't result in me having to reassess anything. And no, Axl's personal tweets doesn't make GN'R into a political band.

You probably think I am being unbiased towards Rose, but in my defence, Neil Young has similarly been making anti-Trump comments which I am not enamoured with either, the quality of his albums plummeting as a result.

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

You probably think I am being unbiased towards Rose, but in my defence, Neil Young has similarly been making anti-Trump comments which I am not enamoured with either, the quality of his albums plummeting as a result.

Well, what can you expect from Neil Young. He is a highly political figure.

 

[DieselDaisy]

7 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Well, what can you expect from Neil Young. He is a highly political figure.

 

Doesn't stop me saying, ''bah, shut up you old knacker'' - and as you know I worship the ground he walks on.

The problem with you is you buy into a zero sum viewpoint of fandom, by which one must be seen to always be agreeing and defending ''their guy''. It is much more honest and fun if you are liberal enough to slag them off occasionally.

[SoulMonster]

5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Doesn't stop me saying, ''bah, shut up you old knacker'' - and as you know I worship the ground he walks on.

The problem with you is you buy into a zero sum viewpoint of fandom, by which one must be seen to always be agreeing and defending ''their guy''. It is much more honest and fun if you are liberal enough to slag them off occasionally.

If you think I always agree with Axl in what he says and does, then you are wrong and aren't paying much attention. *yawn*

[Blackstar]

59 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I have said this before but when somebody from entertainment involves themselves in politics it forces the public to reassess that person in a way they wouldn't normally. You have to be rather ''whiter than white'' (no pun intended) or inherently risk opening yourself up to public ridicule and charges of hypocrisy. If Slash started preaching about the merits of teetotalism we'd all say, ''what a wanker. That drunk was pissed off his head for most of his life yet he is now lecturing me on having this 'ere Shandy Bass?''. 

First of all, I don't think the hypothetical example of Slash preaching against alcohol is comparable to being involved or comment on politics, because it isn't politics.

Second, I don't know if it's due to cultural differences, but this idea that someone, even if famous, has to be completely "unsoiled" in order to comment on politics or criticise people in power is foreign to me. Maybe this kind of moralism is an Anglo-Saxon cultural thing (puritanism)? It's like if an entertainer, known for lying to his wife and cheating on her, criticised Bush Jr. for lying about Saddam's "weapons of mass destruction" and starting a war. Should the entertainer be called a hypocrite because "they're both liars"? It's ridiculous.

Where I'm from, Axl wouldn't be accused for hypocrisy, unless maybe if there were inconsistencies with previously expressed political views - so the only thing that he would possibly be called out for by some (if it was taken as a statement) would be OIAM; but I think it would matter that it was only one thing and that 30 years ago.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Blackstar

[DieselDaisy]

22 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

First of all, I don't think the hypothetical example of Slash preaching against alcohol is comparable to being involved or comment on politics, because it isn't politics.

Second, I don't know if it's due to cultural differences, but this idea that someone, even if famous, has to be completely "unsoiled" in order to comment on politics or criticise people in power is foreign to me. Maybe this kind of moralism is an Anglo-Saxon cultural thing (puritanism)? It's like if an entertainer, known for lying to his wife and cheating on her, criticised Bush Jr. for lying about Saddam's "weapons of mass destruction" and starting a war. Should the entertainer be called a hypocrite because "they're both liars"? It's ridiculous.

Where I'm from, Axl wouldn't be accused for hypocrisy, unless maybe if there were inconsistencies with previously expressed political views - so the only thing that he would possibly be called out for by some (if it was taken as a statement) would be OIAM; but I think it would matter that it was only one thing and that 30 years ago.

That analogy doesn't stand up because an entertainer cheating on his wife is unrelated to middle eastern conflict. My analogy about Slash is inter-connected, Slash being an alcoholic who (in my hypothetical scenario) has now converted to crusading teetotalism. Rose commenting on Trump is hypocritical, being that he espouses views (racism, anti-migrant, homophobic, misogyny) and enacted acts (physical and sexual violence) that are thoroughly ''Trump-esque''. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by DieselDaisy

[Blackstar]

8 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

That analogy doesn't stand up because an entertainer cheating on his wife is unrelated to middle eastern conflict.

It's related to lying. Actually is more related than what Axl does, ie. commenting on Trump's domestic and foreign policy issues and not on what he's done in his personal life.

13 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Rose commenting on Trump is hypocritical, being that he espouses views (racism, anti-migrant, homophobic, misogyny) and enacted acts (physical and sexual violence) that are thoroughly ''Trump-esque''. 

You use present tense. So you're sure Axl is all these things today or if he's been in the last few years? Again, I'm under the impression that in your mind Guns N' Roses are one-dimensional, non-evolving characters in a soap opera. I think that the story of GnR resembles to a soap opera indeed, and I like it for that (), but I also realise that they're real people.

[SoulMonster]

46 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

 he espouses views (racism, anti-migrant, homophobic, misogyny) and enacted acts (physical and sexual violence) that are thoroughly ''Trump-esque''. 

Why are you still saying that Axl espouses these views? Haven't numerous people told you that you mix up things from 30 years ago? It's like when you have settled on a favorite lie there is no amount of facts and arguments that can turn you. But hey, facts can easily be pushed aside if they are a barrier to criticizing Axl, right? You are good at that.

And even IF Axl today, in 2018, was guilty of expressing anti-migrant, racist, homophobic and misogynistic statements, there would still not be any hypocrisy if he criticized Trump for the Federal budget or forest management or whatever. Or are you seriously of the opinion that only people who have never done anything wrong are allowed to criticize Trump, or is that a standard you have just reserved for Axl?

As @Blackstar pointed out, you conflate and simplify human behavior to the point where people are one-dimensional caricatures. In a sense that is something you share with Trump. Your "Junker the drunkard" or "Slash the junkie" is similar to Trump's "Lying Ted" or "Rocket man". Just schoolyard tactics, really. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by SoulMonster

[killuridols]

6 hours ago, cineater said:

Ask those people in Paradise if money would have helped them.  They died in their cars in the traffic jam trying to flee.  These fires moved fast and into unexpected areas.  When the order comes to evacuate people are rushing out, help is rushing in, movement stalls.  If you're not home, you may never get back to pick up your pets.  Money can help you rebuild but it can never replace what you lost.

Can you read or do you read only the things you have in your mind?

Where did I ever talk about "those people in Paradise"? I said Rose, Axl Rose (in case you thought I meant some woman named Rose....)

The fires started a while ago, anyone with half a brain would be cautious enough to start organizing themselves before the madness reaches to them. This is not an earthquake that surprises you in the middle of the night. The smoke towers can be seen from far away. Why would anyone wait to be evacuated and rush out in the last minute?

I know the winds make the fires go faster than one can imagine but Axl's home was not among the first properties to be affected by it.

Axl apparently follows the news closely and having had the experience of previous fires, I'm sure he already knows whats the fastest and best way to act when this kind of things happen.

Money not only can replace the things you may lose. Money can help you have more than one property where you can go to if the primary one gets affected. If you have a zoo or lots of animals, you can hire a truck and take the animals wherever you think it is more convenient.

Financial security cant buy love but it can surely makes your life way easier and can help you solve lots of problems.

[soon]

Working class staff in these estates are in a vulnerable position. I'd bet there are more workers then elites on a lot of these high end properties. And the live-in ones have a lot to loose. Much more then their employers. And the migrant workers/temp foreign workers could really be fucked depending on their employers actions in the event that housing is lost.

***************

Stay safe everyone.

[alfierose]

I'm seeing more and more reports of missing persons especially from the Paradise fires. Over 200 now according to one news outlet. It seems to be mostly the elderly, sadly they probably couldn't move fast enough or didn't have transport. Really awful. 

[killuridols]

2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

I'm sure he has. In fact I have a vague memory of it around the Stormy Daniels' thing, but to prove it would require wading through the diarrhea that compromises Rose's tweeter feed, and that I leave to hardier souls than myself. 

Off the top of my head, he tweeted some weird shit when the Bill Cosby case was in the news. They were some sort of ironic jokes on the drinks that Cosby would give to his victims.

I always found those tweets utterly distasteful... especially for the victims.

And him saying "Happy International Women's Day", shows how clueless he is about these issues. There's nothing to celebrate on Women's Day and there's nothing happy about it. It is a day to reinforce the fight for our rights.

[Axl_morris]

What about the vault? Is it secret? Is it safe?

[SoulMonster]

21 minutes ago, killuridols said:

And him saying "Happy International Women's Day", shows how clueless he is about these issues. There's nothing to celebrate on Women's Day and there's nothing happy about it. It is a day to reinforce the fight for our rights.

I didn't know that. What is the feminist-approved way of greeting women on the International Women's Day? "So very sad to hear about the International Women's Day"? "Grl pwr!"? Or perhaps "I am but a worthless bag of testosterone, misogyny and millennia of female suppression, so please be insulted when I congratulate you as a specimen of your gender on the progress you have made towards equality in recent decades, despite my gender's best efforts"?

Edited November 12, 2018 by SoulMonster
typos

[alfierose]

Can we try and stay vaguely on topic. I know Axl tweets about various things and the temptation is to discuss it all but I don't want the thread derailed completely.

As suggested in the Social Media thread we are happy for someone to start a general Axl and Politics thread that can encompass a wide range of squabbling discussion. 

[Lio]

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I didn't know that. What is the feminist-approved way of greeting women on the International Women's Day? "So very sad to hear about the International Women's Day"? "Grl pwr!"? Or perhaps "I am but a worthless bag of testosterone, misogyny and millennia of female suppression, so please be insulted when I congratulate you as a specimen of your gender on the progress you have towards made equality in revent decades, despite my gender's best efforts"?

I'm alright with Happy Women's Day It just seems so exhausting and draining when every word or quote has to be scrutinized and analyzed and made sure that it doesn't have any possible wrong interpretation or might possibly offend anyone, even if you have the best intentions. I think you can strive towards equality without looking at men as The Enemy.

Didn't Axl promote Beta from nanny to assistant to manager?

[killuridols]

34 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I didn't know that. What is the feminist-approved way of greeting women on the International Women's Day? "So very sad to hear about the International Women's Day"? "Grl pwr!"? Or perhaps "I am but a worthless bag of testosterone, misogyny and millennia of female suppression, so please be insulted when I congratulate you as a specimen of your gender on the progress you have made towards equality in recent decades, despite my gender's best efforts"?

The right way is to educate yourself on the subject or maybe just STFU.

34 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Or perhaps "I am but a worthless bag of testosterone, misogyny and millennia of female suppression, so please be insulted when I congratulate you as a specimen of your gender on the progress you have made towards equality in recent decades, despite my gender's best efforts"?

I'm going to take note of this condescending bunch of bollocks that also confirms my previous suspicions on you being highly hypocritical when you boast about "caring" for subjects like DV, rape, misogyny, etc.

It is in these heated debates when some masks fall off.

Edited November 12, 2018 by killuridols

[RussTCB]

55 minutes ago, alfierose said:

I'm seeing more and more reports of missing persons especially from the Paradise fires. Over 200 now according to one news outlet. It seems to be mostly the elderly, sadly they probably couldn't move fast enough or didn't have transport. Really awful. 

I just saw that on the news this morning. So, so sad. 

Also, I want to clarify that by "Shut up, Axl" comment was directly solely at him always going on about Trump. Obviously I would encourage and expect Axl to care about the area where his home is and have compassion for his neighbors.

[Ratam]

45 minutes ago, Axl_morris said:

What about the vault? Is it secret? Is it safe?

Maybe the vault is in he ass...,like back then was Slash