Does the NITL Tour validate Chinese Democracy?

[jacdaniel]

For me, CD doesn't sound like a GNR album. There's actually very few guitar driven songs on that album, no real stand out riffs.

I might have appreciated it as an Axl solo album, but it was released and judged as a Guns album.

I'd be happy if they dropped those songs and Slither and focused on stuff they done together. 

[wasted]

On 17/11/2018 at 5:32 AM, History2010 said:

it did add legitimacy to the record imo. If the songs had disappeared from the setlist then it would have sent a clear message about the NuGuns era being over; but instead Slash and Duff joined the NuGuns line-up making a hybrid of the band where the NuGuns era is mixed with the classic era and its all "Guns N' Roses" 

The one and only correct answer. 

I’m sure legitimacy is the word. But it Slash co-signing CD really destroys the idea that CD is complete garbage. Duff has made a point that they play them different but vocals, songwriting are legit etc. So whoever was trolling me 10 years ago, I won, I’m bitter and you lost player. That last part I was just being a loser. I think I won? Did I win? I think I won. It’s just another day, like today. 

Edited November 18, 2018 by wasted

[Tom-Ass]

7 hours ago, Fourteenbeers said:

I think the title track from CD got pretty good reception on the show I attended ( also being in pretty low register Axl doesn't sound bad singing it)  But the other songs that were performed from that album... yeah... people were mostly just waiting them to be over.

The title track does get a good reception.. It has decent placement.. People are still fired up and processing that they are seeing Guns N Roses again most the first time in decades if ever.. They are jacked up from It's So Easy and Brownstone still. And it is a short decent rock song. IMO it is the best song from CD though I did like the initial live versions from 200 better than the studio or NITL versions.

[Tom-Ass]

3 hours ago, wasted said:

But it Slash co-signing CD really destroys the idea that the is complete garbage. 

Or that they just really really love $$$$$$.  I think also they play them partly to appease Axl and partly as an olive branch.

[gnfnrs1972]

13 hours ago, Sydney Fan said:

True, though credit to metallica as they are interested in still doing albums because I've read in an interview they enjoy making music in the studio and still enjoy the creative process. So its not about the money for these guys. I hope guns can have that same mindset. Mind you i put guns on a higher stand than bon jovi, his voice is done.

Jon Bon Jovi sounds a hundred times better live than Axl. This is my wife's favorite band, I go to his concerts. You are dead wrong.

[Edward Nygma]

27 minutes ago, gnfnrs1972 said:

Jon Bon Jovi sounds a hundred times better live than Axl. This is my wife's favorite band, I go to his concerts. You are dead wrong.

Bon Jovi toured extensively in the mid 90's and throughout the 00's, last I heard his voice sounds shot.

[coolio GNR]

No, it's Slash and Duff playing Axl Rose solo project songs. Nothing will ever change that in my mind. Chinese Democracy is not and never will be Guns N' Roses impo.

[gnfnrs1972]

2 hours ago, Edward Nigma said:

Bon Jovi toured extensively in the mid 90's and throughout the 00's, last I heard his voice sounds shot.

He doesn't sound like Mickey Mouse.

[NicoRourke]

To me it’s a GNR album, and I love a lot of the songs on it. Some I’m listening to anymore, just like the rest of their albums.

I don’t care much if others like / don’t like it, it captures Axl’s spirit perfectly IMO and more importantly I can relate to a lot of the material and feel like it expresses some of my emotions.

[Edward Nygma]

1 hour ago, gnfnrs1972 said:

He doesn't sound like Mickey Mouse.

 

[Tom-Ass]

Axl alone is not Gn'R.. As proved by the NITL tour.. And "Bon Jovi can suck my dick"

[username]

23 hours ago, DTJ80 said:

A random thought - does the fact that there are players on CD who weren’t originally in the group but are still there now mean that album has more ‘validity’?

IMO - it was and still is very much a GNR album so I am fine with it but wonder if anyone who could not get on the boat with CD think anything better of it now/is more accepting?

 

Not even in the slightest. The only thing that could have given it validity was a release in or before 2002 with a supporting tour. 

[Trin9498]

No one would complain if the dropped all CD songs from the set. The tour is billed as a reunion. They pretty much only show Axl duff and slash on their social media pages. They should only be playing classic material. 

[wasted]

10 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

Or that they just really really love $$$$$$.  I think also they play them partly to appease Axl and partly as an olive branch.

Seems like the gentlemanly thing to do and the Axl does Coma and Slither, shows up on time etc. 

but they are just songs and the way GNR made songs back in the day, Slash playing a Izzy demo or working with Axl, CD songs with Slash are basically real GNR songs. 

[wasted]

6 hours ago, NicoRourke said:

To me it’s a GNR album, and I love a lot of the songs on it. Some I’m listening to anymore, just like the rest of their albums.

I don’t care much if others like / don’t like it, it captures Axl’s spirit perfectly IMO and more importantly I can relate to a lot of the material and feel like it expresses some of my emotions.

CD songs are basically the songs we would have got from Axl anyway. Without Izzy he was the sole lyrics and vocal melody guy and I can’t see the themes changing much. So it’s more about the sound. They could have done a more UYI version but CD is way more interesting the way it is. 

[F*ck Fear]

I'll get hung for my opinion, I'm sure.

Chinese Democracy is a Guns N Roses album. Now that Slash and Duff play those songs, it's never been more evident.

But that goes back to the whole 'it was GNR before Slash and Duff' and was after the fact, too

 

[Gordon Comstock]

It was released as a GNR album, by the 2000's lineup(s) of GNR... it's a GNR album whether some people accept it or not.

I'd say Slash and Duff playing a few songs from it adds some validity. But CD is what it is... anyone who follows GNR, knows what they were at that time. If you're still hung up on the name on the cover, that's your issue.

[Ninjapie24]

Back when I first got into GNR, I listened to every album they released. (It was my first band where I did that and has remained my favorite since). At the time I was a Slash fan so I went into CD with the mindset that “it sucks and isn’t good because of no Slash or even Duff”. And listening to it with that mindset, it sucked. I would occasionally get the riff and beginning of CD stuck in my head and then I’d think “why am I humming a shit song”? Things changed April 2nd 2016 (I wasn’t involved in every bit of info about the band so I heard about it in Facebook the next day) when I heard that Slash and Duff were back. I decided to give the album a second shot and found I liked it quite a bit. I bought tickets for GNR at Foxboro and tried to listen to the album a shit ton so I would know what songs they played. Catcher wasn’t my favorite song, but it became one of my top 4 on the album once I heard it live for the first time with Slash at my show. I think now that Slash and Duff are back it does sort of validate it as a GNR album, even if it was my own preferences that were the only thing making it not a GNR album.

[RONIN]

I think it's a disgrace that there is a Chinese Democracy, Snakepit, Velvet Revolver, SMKC, and Slash/Duff/Izzy solo albums. All of that shit should have been done together as Guns N' Roses. It's tragic that we have all this material out there that's far below the quality of what they all could have done had Axl and Slash only managed their egos. I also think any future album will be a disgrace without Stradlin' and a good drummer. All NITL has proven is that the world couldn't care less about Axl and Slash unless they are together.

As for Chinese Democracy, compare the reaction the CD songs get from the crowd to Slither. Game, set, blouses. I love a lot of things about CD but Axl is not Guns N' Roses. To suggest that his solo album is GnR because the band's lineup has been unstable (whose fault is that?) is disingenuous. And nobody cares about the pre-appetite lineup except for 3 people on this forum. The only lineup that matters then and now is the 5 man wrecking crew that recorded Appetite for Destruction and Lies.

Edited November 18, 2018 by RONIN

[wasted]

3 hours ago, RONIN said:

I think it's a disgrace that there is a Chinese Democracy, Snakepit, Velvet Revolver, SMKC, and Slash/Duff/Izzy solo albums. All of that shit should have been done together as Guns N' Roses. It's tragic that we have all this material out there that's far below the quality of what they all could have done had Axl and Slash only managed their egos. I also think any future album will be a disgrace without Stradlin' and a good drummer. All NITL has proven is that the world couldn't care less about Axl and Slash unless they are together.

As for Chinese Democracy, compare the reaction the CD songs get from the crowd to Slither. Game, set, blouses. I love a lot of things about CD but Axl is not Guns N' Roses. To suggest that his solo album is GnR because the band's lineup has been unstable (whose fault is that?) is disingenuous. And nobody cares about the pre-appetite lineup except for 3 people on this forum. The only lineup that matters then and now is the 5 man wrecking crew that recorded Appetite for Destruction and Lies.

But it seems like a lot of fans care more about the UYI era. And in some way only about Axl and Slash with Duff rising in stature post Guns with VR, the books, his survivor story. Duff was more high profile on the UYI tour. The fans want the big stars and the somgs and various other members are like a big family. Nobody complains if Izzy or Stinson or Finck comes back to jam as long as the Big 3 are there. 

With that in mind, I don’t think many fans begrudge Axl carrying on without the guys. CD is pretty much the next chapter of the GNR story from the songwriter who stayed to report back. Izzy kind of tapped out on Dust n Bones and 14 Years. Ju ju hounds was a great snapshot of where Izzy was, it was kind of like anti-rock n roll lifestyle, it was about why he left the megabucks show. Axl stayed in GNR and tried to make it work, tried to find what the next GNR would be. A lot of the GNR storylines that began in the UYI era conclude or continue on CD. This I Love, Seymour, and songs that deal with GNR news like the Chicago school shooting, Axl’s tribute to Lennon, the out to get me songs, continuation of the civil rights songs. They all seem to belong to GNR. It’s hard to sperate Axl’s persona from GNR. 

[Sydney Fan]

13 hours ago, username said:

Not even in the slightest. The only thing that could have given it validity was a release in or before 2002 with a supporting tour. 

And with the lineup that played on the album.

[Sydney Fan]

3 hours ago, wasted said:

But it seems like a lot of fans care more about the UYI era. And in some way only about Axl and Slash with Duff rising in stature post Guns with VR, the books, his survivor story. Duff was more high profile on the UYI tour. The fans want the big stars and the somgs and various other members are like a big family. Nobody complains if Izzy or Stinson or Finck comes back to jam as long as the Big 3 are there. 

With that in mind, I don’t think many fans begrudge Axl carrying on without the guys. CD is pretty much the next chapter of the GNR story from the songwriter who stayed to report back. Izzy kind of tapped out on Dust n Bones and 14 Years. Ju ju hounds was a great snapshot of where Izzy was, it was kind of like anti-rock n roll lifestyle, it was about why he left the megabucks show. Axl stayed in GNR and tried to make it work, tried to find what the next GNR would be. A lot of the GNR storylines that began in the UYI era conclude or continue on CD. This I Love, Seymour, and songs that deal with GNR news like the Chicago school shooting, Axl’s tribute to Lennon, the out to get me songs, continuation of the civil rights songs. They all seem to belong to GNR. It’s hard to sperate Axl’s persona from GNR. 

The other side is that CD would not have contained the songs had duff and slash stayed. So we may as well still call it an axl rose solo record.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Sydney Fan

[Bono]

The album sucks and this reunion if anything invalidates that entire era of the band. And thank god. Nobody at these shows really cares about the CD songs at all. It's a lame footnote in the legacy of GnR.  Mostly because it's not a GnR album. It's just fucking Axl and some guys. The only reason those songs are being played is for Axl to save face. He has to throw those songs out there because he can't and won't ever admit the whole CD era was a failure and a waste of time and was NOT worth ending the original/Illusion era band. The only reason they have those songs in the set is so Axl can desperately attempt to validate the CD era. 

[wasted]

1 hour ago, Sydney Fan said:

The other side is that CD would not have contained the songs had duff and slash stayed. So we may as well still call it an axl rose solo record.

I think a lot of them lyrically and vocally would. Better, TIL, Chi dem could have had Slash on them. 

It’s not really a solo record because Axl didn’t write the music. It’s much more a band album in scope and dynamics. 

It’s easier to see it as GNR and hang the story behind why Slash and Duff aren’t on it off that. If Axl just closed GNR then there would be no reason for VR. Somehow Axl making the album energized and illustrated the situation. 

To ignore what happened to GNR and not really address it until 20 years later seems odd. Hal stayed in the space station and something happened, now let’s listen to the album. 

Edited November 18, 2018 by wasted

[Azifwekare]

19 hours ago, gnfnrs1972 said:

He doesn't sound like Mickey Mouse.

In Axl's defence, neither does he. He sounds more like Neil Young's grandma.

9 hours ago, RONIN said:

As for Chinese Democracy, compare the reaction the CD songs get from the crowd to Slither.

Guns N' Roses playing Guns N' Roses songs? What's new?

Guns N' Roses playing Velvet Revolver songs? That's pretty neat.

9 hours ago, RONIN said:

To suggest that his solo album is GnR because the band's lineup has been unstable (whose fault is that?) is disingenuous.

*cough*Slash*cough*