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Which orchestras have played on Chinese Democracy


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A more funkier bass player would've offered an interesting dynamic to that band.  Cuz Brain had it all, Bucket was capable of it all but they ended up with this punk bass player.  I do love that band though in an odd way, I know a lot of people hate em and that but they were a wonderful motley collection of freaks, Bucket needs no introduction, the human drum machine Brain (which almost does him a disservice as compliments go cuz he's anything but mechanical), the man sloppy goth lookin' Robin Finck, the tartan clad ex Replacement Tommy and then the mad ginger one, I mean you couldn't make up a more interesting band.  They remind me almost of like Parliament Funkadelic.

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19 hours ago, wasted said:

Yes, they both are on SOD, TWAT, Madagascar, Prostitute. Beltrami is on THis I Love. 

Axl was saying Buckmaster worked on Elton John Madman across the Water?

Beltrami does movie soundtracks like Terminator 3 I think. So you got Queen’s producer, Elton’s string guy and a movie soundtrack guy. Manson does have dramatic atmosperes in some of his songs. 

Beavan was Manson’s producer. I think Axl wanted that NIN and Manson sound. That’s what he mainly said he wanted to change the sound of GNR. Not everything in how GNR made a record. 

I could imagine the first Beavan recordings were like early Manson but songs like The Blues and Twat weren’t as grand. That’s why Iovine wanted to bring in the Queen producer. That’s where the money is, the Nov Rains. Around 2000 the rec comp were hoping to be saved by the big GNR record. They spent 10 mil knowing Slash wouldn’t be involved. It was that Interscope era of Eminem and Manson. Fred Durst and Kid Rock were the new Axl Rose. 

Axl might have been into those scenes of grunge and rap rock but he still had his songs and the Queen thing. In a way the 90s Alt rock was just another influence to the basically 70 rock style songwriting. That’s why people moan about Catcher, it’s obviously very close to another Illusion classic but the Alt Rock messes it up. In a weird way by the time CD came out 90s rock was sort of classic rock.

These are elements that CD is very much like AFD, UYI. The mixing pot of old and new styles with the soul of the artist still very much intact. Like on AFD you have Aerosmith and Stones stuff but there was also a lot of Thrash production going on. Clink worked with Megadeth. AFD could really compete with those 80s thrash bands. CD is like that too, you have 90s alt rock that has some 00s sound and motifs. Ron brought that 00s prog element and pomp was back in with bands like My Chemical Romance and Evanessence. CD is still very glam metal here and there. 

 

Yeah I agree, Guns was kinda retro when they first came out. More classic Areosmith then MTV group like Poison. But especially retro compared to Talking Heads. Im not sure I hear the Megadeth connection? But having the retro thing, it is an especialy bold move for Axl to try and go on trend or even futuristic on CD. And then, as you say, he ends up being retro 90s after all the delays.

Yeah, judging by early performances of the title track is was more raw and streamlined in ways. Not the keys, but the rest of the arrangement. Which is odd in that NIN and Manson had big sounds - Manson becoming that way under Trents production. Axl like Vitalogy and PJ had gone to a very muted and less dynamic tone for that - I thin their might be a bit of that informing the dryer arrangements? I note some Trans Siberian Orchestra production vibes in places on the album, although I can never pick the exact proper track to demonstrate that.

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7 hours ago, Azifwekare said:

The General was written by Brain and Bucket (so possibly Pete Scaturro was involved also), and the others were from around the same time. So that would be 2001-2004, definitely RTB era.

And there is no way that those 4 songs appear on CD under any other name. Anything that implies otherwise is wishful thinking.

I guess I’m wishing the other way.

What I’m saying is Beltrami is quoted as saying he worked on 4 songs for CD. He also worked TIL but never name checked that song.  On CD credits he is on 5 songs. Sod, twat, Mad, pros, this. 

I guess dating when Beltrami said he worked 4 songs is the next move. It seems like he must have done TIL in 2006. 

So is the The General batch quote before CD and the SOD batch quote after CD? 

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4 hours ago, soon said:

Yeah I agree, Guns was kinda retro when they first came out. More classic Areosmith then MTV group like Poison. But especially retro compared to Talking Heads. Im not sure I hear the Megadeth connection? But having the retro thing, it is an especialy bold move for Axl to try and go on trend or even futuristic on CD. And then, as you say, he ends up being retro 90s after all the delays.

Yeah, judging by early performances of the title track is was more raw and streamlined in ways. Not the keys, but the rest of the arrangement. Which is odd in that NIN and Manson had big sounds - Manson becoming that way under Trents production. Axl like Vitalogy and PJ had gone to a very muted and less dynamic tone for that - I thin their might be a bit of that informing the dryer arrangements? I note some Trans Siberian Orchestra production vibes in places on the album, although I can never pick the exact proper track to demonstrate that.

I think the speed and aggression of AFD can be traced to trash bands, that was in the air. AFD could compete with Metallica and Megadeth. Carried on to Illusion with RNDTH, Perfect, Garden of Eden. Poison or hair bands never went into these areas. Mike Clink didn’t really produce hair bands. 

I’m not a huge PJ fan but I liked the self titled album and felt TWAT had a similar guitar tone on the riff. I attributed the general tightness of CD to Costanzo/Evil Empire. It gives the record an intensity like RATM. 

I think maybe early Chi Dems were more grungey. I think we can only take Beavan as a sign post of intent. It was all re-recorded by RTB. But I guess less epic more aggressive record was probably on the cards with Beavan. Tommy seemed think it was fine. 

I think Youth and the bands he worked with might be a clue on orchestra strings. But that goes back to Elton and Queen. But in the 90s it was kind of a thing all over. Oasis, Pumpkins. UNKLE always seems like a blueprint for CD with a mix of drum loops, strings, electronica, rock. 

A lot of stuff was re-recorded with Costanzo so maybe he was the one to really pull the whole thing together. To mesh the Beavan elements with the RTB side of it. IRS works well in that way. It’s like hip hop Zeppelin. 

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