Michael Jackson

[Serpens Albus]

Hello everyone, I am not sure if there is already a thread / post regarding Michael Jackson so here you go. (A quick search on this website did not show me anything).

I would like to know the communities' thoughts on Michael Jackson.

I'll start; Slash not only played with Michael on some live shows, but he also played on some MJ tracks.

This includes: D.S. (HIStory: Past, Present and Future, Book I), Give In to Me (Dangerous) and Privacy (Invincible).

What they both provide seems to fit nicely, I believe.

 

Also, is it true that Axl was not too happy about Slash playing with Michael?

[Mendez]

54 minutes ago, Serpens Albus said:

Hello everyone, I am not sure if there is already a thread / post regarding Michael Jackson so here you go. (A quick search on this website did not show me anything).

I would like to know the communities' thoughts on Michael Jackson.

I'll start; Slash not only played with Michael on some live shows, but he also played on some MJ tracks.

This includes: D.S. (HIStory: Past, Present and Future, Book I), Give In to Me (Dangerous) and Privacy (Invincible).

What they both provide seems to fit nicely, I believe.

 

Also, is it true that Axl was not too happy about Slash playing with Michael?

According to Goldstein, yes. According to Slash, no.

 

On another note, i like this song

 

[RussTCB]

Michael Jackson is (in my opinion) the single greatest entertainer of all time.

I could go on and on and on about how much I appreciate him.

[Dean]

A very talented but troubled man who never seemed to know when there was a line crossed. His life was incredibly fascinating as an onlooker, excess in everything possible that is never associated with famous musicians; theme parks, llama's, monkey's - it was simply incredible. I can't imagine what it must be like to try and go about your day but be burdened with paparazzi following your every step. There hasn't been many who got it quite as bad as Michael and that may have played a big part in him going off the rails mentally. I've been meaning to check out some MJ boards and scout threads just to see what the overall thoughts on the court cases/allegations are from his fanbase. I remember most of it when it was making headlines, but never went further to see how it impacted his following. Gary Glitter had a few good tunes, but due to his convictions, I totally black listed that stuff. Had MJ been found guilty, I'd have done the same, but their was just so much of his material that changed the world that it would have been a travesty.

[Gibson87]

6 hours ago, RussTCB said:

Michael Jackson is (in my opinion) the single greatest entertainer of all time.

I could go on and on and on about how much I appreciate him.

Agreed. The amount of talent he had was insane. I can't think of another musician or entertainer that was as universally liked as he is. Even if someone's not a fan, they like a couple songs at the very least.

[Towelie]

5 hours ago, Dean said:

A very talented but troubled man who never seemed to know when there was a line crossed. His life was incredibly fascinating as an onlooker, excess in everything possible that is never associated with famous musicians; theme parks, llama's, monkey's - it was simply incredible. I can't imagine what it must be like to try and go about your day but be burdened with paparazzi following your every step. There hasn't been many who got it quite as bad as Michael and that may have played a big part in him going off the rails mentally. I've been meaning to check out some MJ boards and scout threads just to see what the overall thoughts on the court cases/allegations are from his fanbase. I remember most of it when it was making headlines, but never went further to see how it impacted his following. Gary Glitter had a few good tunes, but due to his convictions, I totally black listed that stuff. Had MJ been found guilty, I'd have done the same, but their was just so much of his material that changed the world that it would have been a travesty.

Check out my MJ board:

http://mymjjforum.boards.net

 

There's a whole section dedicated to the allegations. Feel free to ask any questions, we have some very knowledgeable and intelligent posters who know the history of the cases like the back of their hand.

 

 

[Len Cnut]

I've never understood why they don't just chill out with the Paps, invite em in...in fact, take em all out for a drink, it'd be a right laugh.

[Crazyman]

I've been thinking about this a bit and I'm still very much of the opinion that his post-Dangerous work is still underrated. The man was ahead of his time with his sound and the message - things like "They Don't Care About Us" and "Earth Song" are still super relevant today. It's a shame his personal life started taking over in people's interest because they missed some really good music. 

Also the whole androgyny/asexual thing he was rocking was also ahead of its time. Now everyone is pushing the boundaries. Edit: also the bleaching his skin thing after the vitiligo diagnosis. 

PS - I still think Invincible was a really good album, just with too much filler. If they made it like 12 tracks it would've been reviewed much better. 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Crazyman

[-W.A.R-]

My favorite photo

[Towelie]

3 hours ago, Crazyman said:

I've been thinking about this a bit and I'm still very much of the opinion that his post-Dangerous work is still underrated. The man was ahead of his time with his sound and the message - things like "They Don't Care About Us" and "Earth Song" are still super relevant today. It's a shame his personal life started taking over in people's interest because they missed some really good music. 

Also the whole androgyny/asexual thing he was rocking was also ahead of its time. Now everyone is pushing the boundaries. Edit: also the bleaching his skin thing after the vitiligo diagnosis. 

PS - I still think Invincible was a really good album, just with too much filler. If they made it like 12 tracks it would've been reviewed much better. 

What would've been on your 12 track Invincible?

[Len Cnut]

1 hour ago, Towelie said:

What would've been on your 12 track Invincible?

 

Maybe?  

[Crazyman]

1 hour ago, Towelie said:

What would've been on your 12 track Invincible?

Just spitballing here but I'd keep the first 8 tracks (maybe cut either Break of Dawn or Heaven Can Wait?), then cut everything other than Cry, Whatever Happens and maybe Threatened, even though I think it's overrated and don't get the appeal among MJ fans. Add one or two of the 70+ songs he demo'd that didn't make it like Another Day or Xscape or Chicago (which I also like)

[Towelie]

6 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

 

Maybe?  

Fuck off Len.

Besides, there's already a song on the album that's called (I'm Saving A Place For All) The Lost Children. I kid you not. I can only imagine the face of the record company execs when they heard that one. Say what you will about him, but the man was the ultimate troll, before anyone coined the term in the internet age.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Towelie

[Towelie]

6 hours ago, Crazyman said:

Just spitballing here but I'd keep the first 8 tracks (maybe cut either Break of Dawn or Heaven Can Wait?), then cut everything other than Cry, Whatever Happens and maybe Threatened, even though I think it's overrated and don't get the appeal among MJ fans. Add one or two of the 70+ songs he demo'd that didn't make it like Another Day or Xscape or Chicago (which I also like)

 

This would've been killer imo:

1. Unbreakable 

2. Hollywood Tonight

3. Xscape

4. You Rock My World

5. Butterflies

6. Heartbreaker

7. Heaven Can Wait

8. Speechless

9. We've Had Enough

10. The Lost Children

11. Whatever Happens

12. Threatened

[DieselDaisy]

Is there any more posthumous albums in the pipeline? Any more archival stuff?

[RussTCB]

19 hours ago, Crazyman said:

I've been thinking about this a bit and I'm still very much of the opinion that his post-Dangerous work is still underrated. The man was ahead of his time with his sound and the message - things like "They Don't Care About Us" and "Earth Song" are still super relevant today. It's a shame his personal life started taking over in people's interest because they missed some really good music. 

Also the whole androgyny/asexual thing he was rocking was also ahead of its time. Now everyone is pushing the boundaries. Edit: also the bleaching his skin thing after the vitiligo diagnosis. 

PS - I still think Invincible was a really good album, just with too much filler. If they made it like 12 tracks it would've been reviewed much better. 

The new album portion of HIStory is easily my favorite MJ album. I used to be indifferent to Invinvible but it's really grown on me over the past few years.

2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Is there any more posthumous albums in the pipeline? Any more archival stuff?

That's debateable from what I hear. @Towelie would know the facts better than me but I've heard mixed things about what's actually out there. 

[DieselDaisy]

6 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

The new album portion of HIStory is easily my favorite MJ album. I used to be indifferent to Invinvible but it's really grown on me over the past few years.

That's debateable from what I hear. @Towelie would know the facts better than me but I've heard mixed things about what's actually out there. 

I just saw something on Towelie's forum. Seems there is a hiatus.

Apparently, except for Xscape and Bad 25 which were largely well received, every posthumous release has not been well received by the fanbase - obviously the fake songs on Michael is the worst example - and there is consequentially a lot of criticism for the estate.

[Iron MikeyJ]

Let me start by saying I AM a pretty big MJ fan. To be honest, there was a time when I won talent shows dancing like him. So YES I am a pretty big fan. I say this, because some of what I'm about to say might come across as harsh (especially to MJ defenders). I absolutely believe he was one of the most talented individuals to have ever lived, no disagreement there. But having said that, I think most "hardcore" MJ fans over rate him to a certain degree. Like his last album for example, or saying things like "he's the greatest entertainer of all time." Like seriously what does that even mean?

Let me start with the "Greatest this or that" declarations. What scale are we judging these things by? Who is included? Who is excluded? When I hear the "greatest entertainer" label for example, what does that even mean? That MJ was the most entertaining individual that ever lived? Well I watched all 3 Mike's (Jackson, Jordan and Tyson) and I would argue that Jordan and Tyson were far more entertaining (for me) to watch. Obviously they are athletes, so does that exclude them? So are we just talking about song and dance men then? If so, how can we definitively say MJ was more entertaining than James Brown or even Elvis Presley? I mean heck, MJ himself would have admitted that he stole all of James Browns moves. That doesnt mean I dont think MJ was incredibly entertaining, because he was, but what case can we legitimately make that he was some how MORE entertaining than James Brown or Elvis? I just dont think one can seriously make that arguement. Nor would I say Elvis or James Brown were clearly better than MJ, it's just such a subjective statement. 

When I bought HIStory (when it was new) I was amazed and impressed with all the awards MJ had won in his career (because they are ALL in the booklet). But over time I have actually started to view that differently. It was incredibly vain on MJs part, to put that in there. I would also argue that shows how insecure he actually was. Why? How many other musicians can you think of that talk about how many Grammy's or American Music Awards they have won? Or how many albums they have sold? Clearly NOT rock musicians, most dont care about that kind of "crap." So while I wouldn't say rock musicians are the most "true" or "authentic" of all musicians, they are CLEARLY more authentic than pop musicians imo. So, if I'm honest, I cant consider him "greater" or "better" than many rock musicians, let alone blues or jazz greats. The songwriting aspect alone, HAS to be a serious knock against him. Rod Temperton wrote many of his biggest hits. Yes, even if you subtract the "outside" written songs, his discography is still pretty impressive. So I STILL consider him a pretty good, if not great songwriter, but again these things HAVE to be considered when talking about "the greatest." 

That is why, the only "title" that I DO feel is deserving or he is worthy of is "The King of Pop." That title gives him clear and defined parameters that most of us can agree on. I would also say Elvis and The Beatles are more in the rock catagory than in the pop catagory (even though they over lapped a bit). I would also say James Brown was R&B and Soul, not pop. So when I think of MJ's pop contemporaries, I think of Madonna, Justin Timberlake, Britany Spears, etc. So is MJ the KING of that crowd? Absolutely. 

[Len Cnut]

Quote

I absolutely believe he was one of the most talented individuals to have ever lived

Christ Almighty

[DieselDaisy]

Anyone who writes ''Billie Jean'' and ''Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough'' (to name just two) has to be considered a top tier songwriter. 

[Iron MikeyJ]

As for his albums, I tend to view them a bit differently than most "hardcore" MJ fans (which we have had this very discussion on this forum before). I feel Thriller and Off the Wall are his true masterpieces (which I could go into why, but as I've said, I've done that before). 

Bad and Dangerous are not quite masterpieces, but one notch below. I would say they are "Great."

HIStory is very good, and imo was literally ONLY missing the song Blood on the Dance floor. If you put THAT song, on THAT album, I would say it was great as well. As it stands though, I would say its "pretty good." I actually prefer the remix album Blood on the Dance floor, because THAT song is the last great MJ song imo. I would also say the music video Ghosts is the last great MJ moment. It was really the last time we saw vintage MJ imo. 

Before I move on to Invincible, here are more of my thoughts on HIStory...

I compare HIStory to CD a lot imo. They were 2 albums that didint have a lot of mass appeal, but many hardcores can appreciate. Both albums are very personal, for the artists that is. They are also both missing a little of that "magic" that the previous albums had imo. If I'm honest, I think CD is a little better than HIStory, but I still appreciate both albums. 

Having said all of that, IMO Invincible is CD2 with Ashba on lead guitar. It's the facepalm album imo. I honestly feel it is THAT bad. You Rock My World is a fine song, I like it. But that's about it. In the video MJ looks and "feels" like a shell of himself imo. Its honestly kinda hard for me to watch, and Chris Tucker kinda steals the show imo. Which how often has THAT happened, somebody upstages MJ in one of HIS videos??? 

But ya, Invincible is CD2 with Ashba on lead guitar imo. 

51 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Anyone who writes ''Billie Jean'' and ''Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough'' (to name just two) has to be considered a top tier songwriter. 

Oh I agree. But again... we have to be honest about everything. 

I also think the method he used to write songs (If you seen him do it), is completely unique and genius.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Iron MikeyJ

[Len Cnut]

22 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Anyone who writes ''Billie Jean'' and ''Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough'' (to name just two) has to be considered a top tier songwriter. 

I don't think there's anyone in popular music who i'd call 'one of the most talented people that ever lived'.

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, Len Cnut said:

I don't think there's anyone in popular music who i'd call 'one of the most talented people that ever lived'.

I agree. I reserve such terms for Shakespeare and Mozart - that level of genius. 

[Iron MikeyJ]

3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I agree. I reserve such terms for Shakespeare and Mozart - that level of genius. 

That's kinda my point. MJ was amazingly talented, yes. Mozart he was not though. Yet many MJ fans DO feel he is #1 all time most amazing person to ever live.

[Len Cnut]

5 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

That's kinda my point. MJ was amazingly talented, yes. Mozart he was not though. Yet many MJ fans DO feel he is #1 all time most amazing person to ever live.

Fans are prone to hyperbole though, I’m sure if they thought about it no one could be that fuckin’ stupid.