Lies They Tell Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 1 hour ago, action said: I have seen many evidence that MJ liked to hang out with children, but I class that as a mental oddity. artists are weird and twisted, all of them. Being weird and being an artist go hand in hand. I don't think hanging out with children is weird. I often prefer childrens company over adults, cause sometimes I get bored with all the grown up discussion about politics etc... Sometimes I much prefer playing around with my nephew or something. But that being said sleeping with kids is weird and especially if Michael Jackson kept pictures of naked children and enjoyed barely legal kind of porn magazines, it's just all very disturbing. I am usually the last person to judge anybody, but you gotta admit Michael Jackson's case looks pretty bad. I'm sure that he genuinely enjoyed to hang out with children and I'm sure that he didn't do anything wrong to many of them. He probably was a good father too, but the thing is, not all pedophiles molest their own children. The world isn't black and white, there's a good side in every pedophile and every murderer. Nobody is a 100% bad person and I'm sure that there was a lot of good in MJ but many things point to the direction that he had a much more disturbing side to him as well. Like you said, MJ lived a rough life in many ways and he might have been mentally ill. But that doesn't justify molesting children. Every single pedophile is mentally ill. If someone had abused you when you were a child, I'm sure you would want justice and you would want the world to know how horrible that person was who abused you. So try to keep that in mind. He was a great artist nevertheless and personally I've never had a problem separating art from the artist. No matter what kind of a person MJ was in private, nothing changes the fact that he was a great artist. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Quote take any convicted child rapist, and you'll find that most of the time they have abused their own children / nephews. because that's what child rapists do: they rape children. that probability increases when the oppurtunity is there. child rapists have much more opportunity to abuse a child in their close circle, than an occasional visitor. but MJ didn't. that's merely an observation. I don't think that Ted Bundy makes a good comparison. He was a serial killer, not a child rapist. I don't see the comparison. I also don't see the relevance of Ted Bundy's behaviour against people that weren't his victims. Bundy was also a rapist whose killings were sexually motivated, hence the comparison, the proposition you were putting forward was that an abuser of children will necessarily abuse his own because the option is there, which is simply untrue, in much the same way a raper of adult women doesn't necessarily rape every female he ever had an oppertunity to. Quote no rapists don't rape at every opportunity, but I think it's fair to ask for an explanation for his involvement with people like macaulay culkin (off the top of my head) who he reportedly never raped, but still had a big involvment with. If MJ hypothetically was a child rapists, then why did he spend so much time with macaulay culkin? he had all the opportunity in the world to have his way, but he didn't. And macaulay wasn't alone, many other children never had a problem with MJ, they only had a good time at neverland. It just doesn't make sense why he wouldn't harm them, supposing he was a child rapist and such were his motives. MJ has given explanations for his behaviour in many interviews, and they seem in line with this. Perhaps he didn't fancy McCauley, perhaps he did rape him and he's lying, or perhaps he just didn't rape him, who knows. Quote an accusation of abuse requires proof. That should really not be a problem if MJ was really a child rapist. there should be an abundance of proof. Only proof I see, is of MJ's weird obsession with underage boys and girls. But for society to take it one step further, and to claim he abused them, is just mass hysteria. If you're a reasonable, cautious person, you review the facts, you make your observations, and you make up your own mind. I have no interest in joining mass hysteria and witch hunting. Frankly, I find it all a bit trivial. I agree completely. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 I see a lots of "most rapists do X, but not all" and "ok so MJ was a good father, didn't rape his own children, but..." a lot of "if's" and "but's". MJ made many, many children happy. He gave a lot of money to child foundations, he genuinly cared for children with fire burns and so on. yes he did, he didn't, but.. but ... that's a lot of positives and contra-indications for an alleged child molester. I'm sorry, I don't buy it. I'll probably piss off a lot of people. but here is the thing: he made incredible music, he did a hell of a lot for children in need (when was the last time you or me did something like that?) and I'm just not casually inclined to believe every outrageous story about him. I think we can conclude with the observation that MJ had a very unusual interest in underage boys and girls, and you can accept that or criticise that, but that there has never been hard proof of anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Quote MJ made many, many children happy. He gave a lot of money to child foundations, he genuinly cared for children with fire burns and so on. Jimmy Saville raised millions for charity. Quote I'll probably piss off a lot of people. but here is the thing: he made incredible music, he did a hell of a lot for children in need (when was the last time you or me did something like that?) Is a human beings value raised somehow by making good music, does it have any bearing on their sense of ethics/principles, morality? Quote I think we can conclude with the observation that MJ had a very unusual interest in underage boys and girls, and you can accept that or criticise that, but that there has never been hard proof of anything else. Coupled with the numerous accusations it seems as good a reason as any for extensive investigation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: Jimmy Saville raised millions for charity. Is a human beings value raised somehow by making good music, does it have any bearing on their sense of ethics/principles, morality? Coupled with the numerous accusations it seems as good a reason as any for extensive investigation. he did, but there is proof he was a rapist. no, but it explains why I even more cautious than I would usually be (yes, i'm hypocrythical). so sue me accusations mean jack shit. 25 years ago, I was invited by MJ in person (I met him on the corner just outside of his ranch), and I had a very good time in his private theme park. I even got a T-shirt, and he never layed a finger on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Quote he did, but there is proof he was a rapist. A lot of it seemed pretty thin, given the time thats passed. Quote accusations mean jack shit. 25 years ago, I was invited by MJ in person (I met him on the corner just outside of his ranch), and I had a very good time in his private theme park. I even got a T-shirt, and he never layed a finger on me. The question is did he lay a finger IN you? He had T shirts, what did it have on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 27 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: A lot of it seemed pretty thin, given the time thats passed. The question is did he lay a finger IN you? He had T shirts, what did it have on it? "sorry I'm late. Michael gave me a drink, and now my butt hurts" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 16 minutes ago, action said: "sorry I'm late. Michael gave me a drink, and now my butt hurts" To be fair if I was a kid and Jacko offered me that chance I would've jumped at it. I was a little terror at 11/12 though, he woulda probably slung me out after a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Is there a sizable number of children who entered Neverland who state now that nothing untoward happened, and I don't mean ''celebrity'' kids like Culkin? The allegations now emanate from four individuals, correct? Jordan Chandler, Arvizo and the two in this documentary, Wade Robson and James Safechuck? Quantifiably how large a proportion is that, of the many who must have visited Neverland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 29 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: Is there a sizable number of children who entered Neverland who state now that nothing untoward happened, and I don't mean ''celebrity'' kids like Culkin? The allegations now emanate from four individuals, correct? Jordan Chandler, Arvizo and the two in this documentary, Wade Robson and James Safechuck? Quantifiably how large a proportion is that, of the many who must have visited Neverland. guess there were kids there all the time. wasnt the door 'always open', so to speak? kind of like the playboy mansion, in a weird way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussTCB Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 @action: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussTCB Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 @action here's more good info:https://talunzeitoun.com/2019/01/30/michael-jackson-and-me/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 hour ago, RussTCB said: @action here's more good info:https://talunzeitoun.com/2019/01/30/michael-jackson-and-me/ thanks russ. it's good to maintain a bit of balance against the hyperbole. for a moment there I thought having porn magazines and action figures in your house means you're a child molester. Guess that goes for 80 % of the male population between 20 and 35 The only thing I wanna know now, is where do I get that awesome lara croft statue. would fit nicely in my man cave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 2 hours ago, RussTCB said: @action here's more good info:https://talunzeitoun.com/2019/01/30/michael-jackson-and-me/ That is what I was trying to ascertain, whether there were significance voices, and not just Culkins, such as this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontdamnmeuyi2015 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Those two guys who swore under oath that Michael never molested them are lying for sure now. It's all about the money. Michael was a child at heart and I don't believe he would ever harm or do anything sexual with a child. I hope their lies get exposed and the Jackson can stop this shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Korean Democracy Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) No kiddie porn was found at Neverland, that's bullshit. If that had been the case he would have directly gone to jail since that's a crime in itself. BTW, Off the Wall is a fucking excellent album, a hundred times more consistent than Thriller. A pop masterpiece. Edited January 31, 2019 by North Korean Democracy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussTCB Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 17 hours ago, North Korean Democracy said: No kiddie porn was found at Neverland, that's bullshit. If that had been the case he would have directly gone to jail since that's a crime in itself. BTW, Off the Wall is a fucking excellent album, a hundred times more consistent than Thriller. A pop masterpiece. Personally, I like his post-Thriller works the most but I completely understand that I am in the minority on that. Having said that, I totally agree that Off The Wall is superior to Thriller in just about every way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 (edited) Without any real evidence we will probably never know what really happened. The fact that the guy was so incredibly eccentric doesn't make it easier to know what to believe. I like to think he was still a kid at heart and only had good intentions and therefore surrounded himself with children because they were his equals, but then you have someone like Corey Feldman who has always defended him and said MJ never touched him in an inappropriate way, but that he did show him nude pictures when he was a kid. Was that just extreme naivety and poor judgement on MJ's part? It's a tough one. That MJ episode on South Park is probably pretty spot on. Edited February 1, 2019 by EvanG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Korean Democracy Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 4 hours ago, RussTCB said: Personally, I like his post-Thriller works the most but I completely understand that I am in the minority on that. Having said that, I totally agree that Off The Wall is superior to Thriller in just about every way. I actually prefer his post-Thriller stuff too! My favorite album of his is Dangerous. While his previous albums imo had too many songs about typical pop themes like love and shit and his following albums had too many songs about self-pity or "changing the world" (that doesn't mean I didn't like them, I loved them all) for me Dangerous had the perfect balance of both, his artistic maturity. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussTCB Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, North Korean Democracy said: I actually prefer his post-Thriller stuff too! My favorite album of his is Dangerous. While his previous albums imo had too many songs about typical pop themes like love and shit and his following albums had too many songs about self-pity or "changing the world" (that doesn't mean I didn't like them, I loved them all) for me Dangerous had the perfect balance of both, his artistic maturity. Nice. For me, the new album portion is HIStory is my favorite. I get what you're saying about the types of songs on that album but for me, that's about all he could do at the moment; defend himself to some extent while trying to keep his message of hope out there. Having said that, Dangerous is a goddamn masterpiece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson87 Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 10 hours ago, RussTCB said: Having said that, Dangerous is a goddamn masterpiece. Agreed. Dangerous was his peak. I'd have been totally fine if he had quit after that record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 "dangerous" was the first album I ever bought. I played that cassette so much, it eventually wore out. 10 years old at the time, I had to work at my dad's field during summer. This album was playing pretty much from morning to evening on rotation, driving my co-workers nuts. It was a little bit of distraction during hard times for me. so many favorite jackson songs. I remember (no pun intended) remember the time and its video clip on MTV. I had never seen anything like it before. and it had eddy murphy, my favorite actor at the time. I watched it on television and those were great times. I've outgrown jackson these days. but I can still appreciate songs like "blood on the dancefloor" and "give in to me" whenever they come up. each time they play, I'm thinking wow, best performer there ever was. (but during the rest of my days, I'm giving that title to freddie and Axl) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 (edited) Who gives a shit, whats it matter, the cunts dead anyway. If yous really give a shit about kids being abused and shit go get a job for one of these children abuse charities and shit, what the fuck good is it chasing this imaginary closure, which its got fuck all to do with anyway, its about making money. Take all the money made from this movie and sink it into making it so other kids don't get fucked with. Everyone has thought Jacko was guilty for the last 30 years anyway, this documentary won't make a blind bit of difference. No one cares, its just car crash theatre and tommorows chip paper, the real Jackson is something emphemeral and illusory and each persons reckoning of it is down to how much of a horse they have in the race. Y'know what gets me though? How similar both sides are...the naysayers who ignore the predatory nature of some of those in and around the accusers and the bearing that has on the accusations and conversely the fans who are like 'the man who made Thriller, a sicko? nooooo!'. Its all bullshit. Edited February 2, 2019 by Len Cnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 It's always bullshit... both sides are talking out of their asses because no one can know for sure. It's the same with religion, both sides think they have all the answers and that they are 100% right. Who is to say that in all those years of being alone with children nothing ever happened? In his mind sleeping in the same bed with children that weren't his was ''normal'', he said that himself. Maybe showing kids nude pictures was in his mind ''normal'' too. So if that is normal to him, who is to say that some ''touching'' wasn't ''normal'' either, because he was still a grown man with needs after all. The way kids can experiment, except he wasn't a kid anymore. Doesn't mean he raped half of the kids on Neverland, but even if he only ever touched one inappropriately or showed his peepee once, then that's already one time too many. But maybe none of that ever happened... fuck if I know. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussTCB Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Dude takes MJ vocals and constructs new songs. Nice work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..thumb.jpg.68eda249b239163da08e3a1e774aa971.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.