Jump to content
Gambit83

The Divisive Legacy & Surprising Future of Guns N' Roses' 'Chinese Democracy

Recommended Posts

6 minutes ago, IncitingChaos said:

Around the time VR went dressed as Axl’s band for Halloween was the turning point. I think Axl could deal with the legal stuff because it was “you quit, I own the name” but the personal trashing of his current band was something that didn’t sit well. That’s when it became psychological and Axl eventually placed blame on all things negative towards Slash. 

There was no anti-Slash talk between 2002-08 though, apart from the lawsuits/counter-lawsuits and the press release from Axl's lawyer in '06. Axl even said that he "loved the guy" in the beginning of 2006 (that was when there were persistent reunion rumours).

I think what affected/hurt Axl the most was Slash's book )in combination with the fact that CD would have to compete with VR) and that's why he was so venomous against Slash in 2008-10 interviews.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, IncitingChaos said:

Around the time VR went dressed as Axl’s band for Halloween was the turning point. I think Axl could deal with the legal stuff because it was “you quit, I own the name” but the personal trashing of his current band was something that didn’t sit well. That’s when it became psychological and Axl eventually placed blame on all things negative towards Slash. 

I personally think axl created a rod for his own back by not releasing any music whether it was cd1 or cd2 around 05 or 06 to compete with VR. Both bands could have let the music do the talking. If axl had released either a cd1 and cd2 and backed up in 06 with how he looked and sounded during the 06 period would have made some great musical competition between both bands and would have been an interesting time.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fantastic read. Thank you for sharing. It’s really incredible to think of Axl as the world’s biggest rock star - the voice of a generation - who goes into hiding for basically 12 years (8 or 9 if you count the 2002 debacle). 

Chinese Democracy has aged very well.  The world around it, however, has changed so much that big rock productions like that just don’t resonate as much. 

Also, article says Atlas Shrugged leaked? Never heard that before...

I hope the success of NILT motivates Axl to see through his grand project, CD 2 and 3, with the band and associate who helped take him to such great heights. 

What a story it has been. I don’t think the final chapters have been written. 

Edited by nycgunner

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Crazyman said:

Of course Niven gets a word in about Izzy at the end. I'm surprised his main criticism wasn't about Axl sounding like the devil on "Sorry"

"But i don't want to do eeet."

  • Like 1
  • GNFNR 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great article, and actually Eddie Trunk nails it on the head when describing Chinese Democracy as far as I view it. I'll always love it but I have friends who could not tell you one song from the album. I wish Axl would write a book about recording the album and Guns overall from 1994-2008. I think it would be a great read

Edited by Ericstacey
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, AxlSlashthebest said:

that's what I call an article. The Autor made a great work 

This, i always like read Art Tavana articles.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, soon said:

Slash calling Axl by the name "Rose" stands out to me. I don't think he called him that very much? 

Coming from a 1997 article it's hard to tell if theres hints of legalize seeping into Slash's vocabulary - where in a legal document Axl would be referred to by his last name. Or perhaps Mr Rose was his new bosses name. But maybe Slash has called Axl by "Rose" many times and I just didnt notice?

Sound weird Slash call Axl "ROSE" never heard it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"All of the material that hadn't been released was coming out in 2016, then, the reunion happened," says one source.

I'm sure I'll get lynched for this... But I can't help but think I would have preferred that material to come out, rather than what we've got at the moment.

  • Like 3
  • Haha 1
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, ToonGuns said:

I'm sure I'll get lynched for this... But I can't help but think I would have preferred that material to come out, rather than what we've got at the moment.

 

I believe your attitude to be largely prevalent with NuGuns fans. Which makes sense. But those that grew up with the band during the 85-93 era are more likely to care about the original band reforming (more so if IZZY had also been involved).

I fall into the latter. But I also would love to hear whatever remains of CD 2 & 3. But Axl/Slash reuniting was definitely #1 on the list for me. Duff’s involvement was a big bonus while Izzy would be the huge cherry on top, if it ever happens. 

Edited by thunderram
  • Thanks 1
  • GNFNR 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm pushing 40 and been a fan since 1990. Just a bit too young for '86-87. Love GnR and Axl / Slash. Literally my favourite band. Old and Nu and New and NewOld.

I guess for me though people move on, people mature, artists develop. It's far more interesting for me to listen to less-than-perfect new music than a nostalgia tour. If the new band releases new music I'll probably change my opinion.

Black Sabbath is an equivalent for me - I like all the forgotten "Headless Cross" stuff etc, it's just been much more interesting for me to listen to entire catalogues of material, not nostalgia just for nostalgias sake.

Edited by ToonGuns
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ToonGuns said:

"All of the material that hadn't been released was coming out in 2016, then, the reunion happened," says one source.

I'm sure I'll get lynched for this... But I can't help but think I would have preferred that material to come out, rather than what we've got at the moment.

Yea that would have been great but we know it wouldn’t have happened. I’m sure Axl has had plans to release stuff for Gnr every year, he’ll always find a reason why he shouldn’t. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Ericstacey said:

Great article, and actually Eddie Trunk nails it on the head when describing Chinese Democracy as far as I view it. I'll always love it but I have friends who could not tell you one song from the album. I wish Axl would write a book about recording the album and Guns overall from 1994-2008. I think it would be a great read

There were talks about a Biopic...If I were doing it, I'd center it around Axl's struggles to create and release this album with flashbacks of the old days. It would have to be a strong character movie...but it will resonate with both the Pre-Illusion fans and the Chinese Democracy era fans, especially now since the reunion has happened. It seems as if the reunion has encouraged the old guard fans to at least "consider" the CD songs since Slash and Duff are playing the songs.

 

As far as Chinese Democracy, the album......it is what a masterpiece should be . Sure it is imperfect at times but it is real....I can feel Axl's struggles...his pain..his ambition..his vision of the album...his passion . It took a ton of courage to release this album and I am so glad he did.

 

Just listen to the short clips of the songs posted on that article. Tell me they aren't energetic and passionate clips.

I'm not surprised at all that the album is aging very well...in fact, I think the album will continue to get better with time...I just hope we get to hear CD II and CDIII...whether it be in the original form or with Slash and Duff adding their contributions.

Edited by Bailey15
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The current band should just go ahead and re-work the stuff in the vault that was intended for 'Chinese Democracy II'. Get Slash and Duff to re-record the lead guitar and bass, polish up Axl's vocals, add Melissa to the mix, and get it out in 2019. Make sure to do better promotion on it this time around/ no exclusive retailer deals.

Win-win for all involved. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Old_school_gnr_fan said:

The current band should just go ahead and re-work the stuff in the vault that was intended for 'Chinese Democracy II'. Get Slash and Duff to re-record the lead guitar and bass, polish up Axl's vocals, add Melissa to the mix, and get it out in 2019. Make sure to do better promotion on it this time around/ no exclusive retailer deals.

Win-win for all involved. 

 

Except people who waste ten years recording ChD. Their work should go to garbage? Release what they did, and start new album with new incarnation of band.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, loko said:

Except people who waste ten years recording ChD. Their work should go to garbage? Release what they did, and start new album with new incarnation of band.

They were paid a salary according to the stipulations of their contracts. Their job is done, and i doubt many of them really expected much to come out of their contributions, especially heading into the twilight years of NuGN'R and the reunion announcement. However, if Axl and co. decided to rework some old material, i could see some people wanting a cut or some recognition. That said, i wouldn't mind seeing an album which includes reworked CD material/new material, and a bonus disc of original CD2 recordings.

Edited by Live Like a Suicide

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Live Like a Suicide said:

They were paid a salary according to the stipulations of their contracts. Their job is done, and i doubt many of them really expected much to come out of their contributions, especially heading into the twilight years of NuGN'R and the reunion announcement. However, if Axl and co. decided to rework some old material, i could see some people wanting a cut or some recognition. That said, i wouldn't mind seeing an album which includes reworked CD material/new material, and a bonus disc of original CD2 recordings.

Can you imagine an album of reworked material from the 1995/96 sessions during the NuGN'R years? It's respectless to do such things, regardless of the musicians. 

Edited by Sosso

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, loko said:

Except people who waste ten years recording ChD. Their work should go to garbage? Release what they did, and start new album with new incarnation of band.

And the fans that would prefer it this way as well.

This is my preference entirely.

That way we also get more new music.

Edited by ToonGuns

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, IncitingChaos said:

Late 90’s early 00’s Slash seemed much more hostile towards Axl than Axl was to Slash but by 04 that had switched. 

"he's in my ass, that's where Slash is fuckhead, go home" 

"they're a bunch of bad cops and I'm the fucking Serpico and they can suck my dick!"

"Slash may sound like Delahoya but he's the fuckin' Vargas"

Let's not kid ourselves, Axl was pretty hostile in that 99-02 era

Edited by moreblack
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's stopping Guns from doing a little Chinese promotion on the official website, couple of new t-shirts, different album covers red hand & grenade covers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Edward Nygma said:

What's stopping Guns from doing a little Chinese promotion on the official website, couple of new t-shirts, different album covers red hand & grenade covers.

Nothing. However, what you're suggesting makes sense and we know GNR just doesn't play that game. :lol:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And let's be honest, if you're gonna buy GNR merch, it's not gonna be the CD stuff. It's gonna be the AFD cross or some UYI imagery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×