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Vintage: Doug Goldstein's hilarious letter to Axl ~2009

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38 minutes ago, MildlyArtistic said:

Guys, I think we found Doug's account!

Doug is despised by everyone in Guns for a reason.

:facepalm:

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17 hours ago, WhazUp said:

I found him an interesting guest on the GNR podcasts as of late, but honestly it is very clear to me that both Doug and Alan are seemingly HUGE contributors to the old band's breakup based on this letter, their back and forth snipes at each other like they are soccer moms on Facebook, etc.

alan always appreciated axl talents but he knew that GNR was a sum of its parts. Due to that, he fought for the band. That included, several times, going against axl (in favor of GNR) and that ultimately caused axl to fire him. Niven was one of the few people who was actually able to kept Axl under control and thus keep GNR functioning.

once NIven was out Axl took over. Doug had zero intention of stopping axl . On the contrary. He was basically an axl enabler that couldnt care less about the band as long as he could keep milking axl's money.

 

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18 hours ago, janrichmond said:

@RONIN so Doug posted THAT letter on his FB??

No idea if that's verifiable, but with Doug, anything's possible. :lol:

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You can say whatever you want about Doug but thanks to him the guys are still alive and breathing even Alan acknowledged that and if he was still the manager Youtube would still have al the gnr stuff available for watching. Keeping certain members alive is the best achievement in gnr's history.

 

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1 hour ago, ludurigan said:

alan always appreciated axl talents but he knew that GNR was a sum of its parts. Due to that, he fought for the band. That included, several times, going against axl (in favor of GNR) and that ultimately caused axl to fire him. Niven was one of the few people who was actually able to kept Axl under control and thus keep GNR functioning.

once NIven was out Axl took over. Doug had zero intention of stopping axl . On the contrary. He was basically an axl enabler that couldnt care less about the band as long as he could keep milking axl's money.

With Niven: AFD, Lies, Illusions, a hugely lucrative record contract, their first stadium tour with leg 1 of the Illusion tour. Essentially the greatest era of GnR.

With Goldstein: Izzy quits, The 1992 circus with Tracy, Roberta, and Teddy ZigZag, The Spaghetti Incident, Axl gaining control of the GnR name legally, the departure of Duff/Slash/Clink...basically the disintegration of the band.

Edited by RONIN
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55 minutes ago, RONIN said:

With Niven: AFD, Lies, Illusions, a hugely lucrative record contract, their first stadium tour with leg 1 of the Illusion tour. Essentially the greatest era of GnR.

With Goldstein: Izzy quits, The 1992 circus with Tracy, Roberta, and Teddy ZigZag, The Spaghetti Incident, Axl gaining control of the GnR name legally, the departure of Duff/Slash/Clink...basically the disintegration of the band.

Don't forget Doug was tour manager way before 1991 and basically yeah when the trouble began (axl leaving stages, showing up late etc. etc.) it was a much harder job for Doug to keep it together and clean up the mess after them.  Where ever did u read that Doug was responsible for let's say Izzy leaving or Axl jumping the crowd in st Louis.  Niven basically freewheeled through his years and in my eyes Doug did a much more respectable job!!! 

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59 minutes ago, RONIN said:

With Niven: AFD, Lies, Illusions, a hugely lucrative record contract, their first stadium tour with leg 1 of the Illusion tour. Essentially the greatest era of GnR.

With Goldstein: Izzy quits, The 1992 circus with Tracy, Roberta, and Teddy ZigZag, The Spaghetti Incident, Axl gaining control of the GnR name legally, the departure of Duff/Slash/Clink...basically the disintegration of the band.

That's such a lame way to discredit someone. It's the way populists argue who want to support their agenda.

All of that could've with Niven aswell. Those things didn't happen because of Doug. But because what has happened in the band the years before. 

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2 hours ago, RageKage said:

That's such a lame way to discredit someone. It's the way populists argue who want to support their agenda.

Fair enough. Was anything I said factually inaccurate? I guess I could have added to the Doug column that the NR video debuted in his era (a plus/minus depending on your taste) and he was a good tour manager who cleaned up the mess Axl left behind on the Illusion tour. Any other highlights from his mid-91 till 2002 tenure that I missed? 

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All of that could've with Niven aswell.

What do you base this off of? What is it about Niven's managerial style that leads you to believe those events would have taken place under his watch? 

1. Izzy was close to Niven. It's unlikely that Stradlin' would have quit in the fashion he did with Alan running things.

2. Niven did not let Axl wrestle legal control of the name from Slash and Duff during his tenure. The legal shenanigans of Axl came during the Goldstein era.

3. He had a much sharper business acumen than Goldstein. The stadium tour and Geffen renegotiation were in large part effected by Niven.

The band very likely could have broken up with Niven running things. But they had a much better chance for survival under his stewardship imho.

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Those things didn't happen because of Doug. But because what has happened in the band the years before. 

 

Poppycock. Goldstein took a band at its apex and ran it into a cliff with Axl. They were active for exactly 2 years during his tenure while finishing out the Illusion tour before becoming dormant.

Nobody in the band even mentioned DG at the RRHOF ceremony. If he was that much of an asset surely Duff or Slash would have name-dropped him as they did with Niven?

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Doug Goldstein Highlight reel

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SLASH on DG

... [Goldstein] been climbing the stairs strategically. It was like a predator in an ambush. While no one has been more responsible for the dissolution of Guns than Guns own, Doug Goldstein was a catalyst. His techniques to divide and conquer were a instrument for the arrival of our end, "wrote Slash in the eponymous 2007 book, published in Brazil by Editora Ediouro.

“During this process (the mixing of ‘UYI’) the animosity between our manager, Alan Niven, and Axl came to a head. The rest of us had been trying to squash it for a while, but Axl's issues with Alan had been brewing for years - since the moment he found out that Alan also managed and produced and co-wrote Great White. There was also the fact that Alan was opinionated on a lot of things and Axl didn’t always agree with his point of view. So at times Axl felt like he was being forced to do things that he didn't necessarily want to do.

I knew it was going to happen but I didn’t think it would be the tipping point. Looking back, I feel that shift was the moment, the pause at the pinnacle of the band’s success... and the start of its downfall… All the same, I saw Doug coming. He made a place for himself in Axl’s life, and once Axl had made his feelings about Alan clear, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Doug was right there to pick up the reins. He had been strategically moving up the ladder from the beginning. He was like an ambush predator.”[Slash Autobiography]

 

 

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DUFF on signing over the band name:

Fuck it. I signed. So did Slash. Guns N' Roses - the trademark now owned by Axl - took the stage. The next day, I grabbed Doug Goldstein on the tarmac at the airport. I had woken up really upset about what had happened the previous night. Slash and I shouldn't have signed those papers. But management wouldn't let the whole thing go forward anyway. Right? I shouted at Doug, saying he needed to fix things.

DG: "Look, Duff, you're a smart guy. I manage Guns N' Roses"

Duff: Yeah, I know, Doug. And that's why we have to -

DG: "No, you're not getting it. I manage Guns N' Roses."

Duff: Are you trying to tell me you manage the name Guns N' Roses?

I was still a member of the band. Not a paid hand. Slash and I still had the same equity stake as before. We had just relinquished control of the name. Doug looked at me with no expression.

Duff: You manage the guy who owns the name Guns N' Roses - is that where you're going, Doug?

He shrugged. That was where he was going. I was apoplectic with rage. I couldn't even speak.

[Duff Autobiography]

http://www.mtv.com/news/1451669/i-was-curious-slash-says-of-gnr-show-he-was-banned-from/

 

 

 

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Marc Canter on Doug Goldstein

When he was their tour manger he was the one keeping things cool. When he became their manger things were ok for a while and then he became a Yes Man to Axl. Maybe because he thought he would get fired? Catering to one members needs while he should have had also been looking out for the other guys too. I don't think Doug knew what he became until years after he was not working with the band. I talked to him a few years ago and he told me to tell Slash that he was sorry for the things that went down. I guess he felt that he didn't represent them evenly But as a tour manger, there was no one like him. He took care of shit that no one would think of doing and he was doing the job of what it would take 3 people to do.

http://www.mygnrforum.com/topic/194694-doug-goldstein/


 

 

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Slash On being barred from Axl's comeback show in Vegas 2001:

He was told that no former members of the band would be admitted. Slash offered to enter the show late and leave early, sitting in the back where he wouldn't be noticed, he said, but they refused.

"I've never actually seen Guns N' Roses from that perspective," he said, "and I was curious. And I wanted to go in a supportive capacity as well. ... I was trying to be discreet about it, but apparently Guns N' Roses' management found out and it was major pandemonium. It was like they sent out an all-points bulletin."

Doug Goldstein: "We didn’t know what his intentions were. If nothing else, it would have been a distraction. Axl was really nervous about these shows. We decided on our own not to take any risk."

http://www.mtv.com/news/1451669/i-was-curious-slash-says-of-gnr-show-he-was-banned-from/


 

 

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GN'R's management company, Big F D Entertainment (headed up by Doug Goldstein) is suing former bandmembers Slash (Saul Hudson) and Duff McKagan (Michael McKagan) for what Big F D says are monies owed, according to papers dated December 14 and filed in the Los Angeles County Superior Court. The suit claims that the pair is in debt to the company to the tune of at least $400,000.Slash's lawyer, Zia Modabber, told MTV News that the guitarist's contract with Goldstein ended some time ago and that the manager isn't owed anything. The lawyer added that Slash intends to vigorously defend himself in court. [January 2000]

http://www.mtv.com/news/1429769/guns-n-roses-management-sues-former-members-slash-duff/

 

 

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"I looooove Slash. Did I really sue him? I'm so sorry if I did!"

[Doug Goldstein, Mitch Lafon Interview 2017]

 

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Slash on Doug Goldstein (2015)

“I did not read it,” he added, referring to Goldstein’s Rolling Stone Brazil interview. “I don’t want to read or hear that guy’s BS. So I just avoid it. That way I stay sane.”

https://www.guitarplayer.com/players/slash-denies-claim-that-michael-jackson-was-behind-gnr-breakup-video

 

 

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@RONIN, to be accurate, Niven booked the first NA (arena) tour, not the whole tour. And that was Axl's final reason to fire Niven (it had all started building up before, of course). Axl didn't want to go on tour before the albums were finished, Niven booked the tour and it seems that Axl said "okay, I'll do the tour and the albums but Niven is out".

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7 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

@RONIN, to be accurate, Niven booked the first NA (arena) tour, not the whole tour. And that was Axl's final reason to fire Niven (it had all started building up before, of course). Axl didn't want to go on tour before the albums were finished, Niven booked the tour and it seems that Axl said "okay, I'll do the tour and the albums but Niven is out".

Right. Thanks for the clarification, I had overlooked that. Niven did get them to their first stadium gig though ;)

Didn’t get an awful lot done after 1991, now did they? By contrast I took an unwanted band to Wembley Stadium, my last act being putting that London show on sale.

https://metalheadzone.com/ex-guns-n-roses-manager-alan-niven-reacts-to-claims-of-cast-spells-on-axl-rose/

I think it was a smart decision on Niven's part to book that tour prior to the albums being released though after Axl didn't meet the original album release date. That tour helped keep the momentum going for the band prior to the albums releasing and it arguably ended up being the strongest leg of the Illusion tour imho from a performance/credibility standpoint.  

I may be way off on this but didn't DG get fired in part for booking the 2002 tour without Axl's knowledge (or so he claims)? An ironic twist if that's indeed the case. :lol:

Edited by RONIN

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3 hours ago, RONIN said:

may be way off on this but didn't DG get fired in part for booking the 2002 tour without Axl's knowledge (or so he claims)? An ironic twist if that's indeed the case. :lol:

Yeah, but I think the main reason, as it seems from Doug's letter was before the booking of the tour, when Doug had sold his managing company to Sanctuary without telling Axl.

As for Niven, I think he helped the band in its first steps and contributed to it becoming big, but he didn't know how to handle Axl or didn't care. And if he was even 1/10 as nasty towards Axl as he comes across in his interviews over the years, I can kind of see why someone with Axl's mental problems and insecurity wouldn't want to continue working with him (and that's where Doug came into).

Edited by Blackstar
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5 hours ago, RONIN said:

Right. Thanks for the clarification, I had overlooked that. Niven did get them to their first stadium gig though ;)

Didn’t get an awful lot done after 1991, now did they? By contrast I took an unwanted band to Wembley Stadium, my last act being putting that London show on sale.

https://metalheadzone.com/ex-guns-n-roses-manager-alan-niven-reacts-to-claims-of-cast-spells-on-axl-rose/

I think it was a smart decision on Niven's part to book that tour prior to the albums being released though after Axl didn't meet the original album release date. That tour helped keep the momentum going for the band prior to the albums releasing and it arguably ended up being the strongest leg of the Illusion tour imho from a performance/credibility standpoint.  

I may be way off on this but didn't DG get fired in part for booking the 2002 tour without Axl's knowledge (or so he claims)? An ironic twist if that's indeed the case. :lol:

Fine points ronin, this highlights why guns was more productive and successful under niven than DG. Also im sure axl didnt want the tour booked because he was dealing or wanting to deal with mental issues first. Those theatre shows were great to get the band back in the public eye again which i thought was a good move.

Edited by Sydney Fan
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56 minutes ago, Sydney Fan said:

Fine points ronin, this highlights why guns was more productive and successful under niven than DG. Also im sure axl didnt want the tour booked because he was dealing or wanting to deal with mental issues first. Those theatre shows were great to get the band back in the public eye again which i thought was a good move.

If my understanding is correct having that tour booked was instrumental in GNR having their contract renegotiated with Geffen. Apparently David Geffen had never renegotiated a contract but was desperate for the Illusions to be out as he was trying to sell Geffen and wanted maximum value for the sale.  Nivens angle was to say either you renogitate or we’ll just stay out on tour and the albums will keep getting pushed back and booked the tour to prove it. This forced David Geffen to the table and the contract got renegotiated. So if that was the final straw pretty uncool to fire a manager for taking steps to secure you a whole heap more cash.

A couple of other key things Niven did that haven’t been mentioned :

* got the Jungle video produced by piggy backing off a Great white video shoot which was intrumental for GNR (imagine if that video never existed).

* I don’t know this for sure but would expect the same happened with the Ritz show (ie piggy backed off Great White)

* most importantly if Axl was a no show he made the rest of the band take the stage (eg Alice Cooper LA show) or had the band fire Axl. Again not so well know but Axl was fired a few times in the 86-88 period but they always bought him back. Why was this important ? Well it stopped Axl showing up late. If the first time he was late in the Illusion era the band just went on and walked off at their allotted time, there is no way Axl would have been late again (or at least late repeatedly)

 

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On 10/1/2019 at 11:16 PM, RONIN said:

Allegedly, Axl kicked Beta out of the house afterwards, their relationship had a fallout 

:drool: for a moment I imagined Axl forgetting about Beta and Doug and hiring a real management team for gnr

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1 hour ago, Euchre said:

If my understanding is correct having that tour booked was instrumental in GNR having their contract renegotiated with Geffen. Apparently David Geffen had never renegotiated a contract but was desperate for the Illusions to be out as he was trying to sell Geffen and wanted maximum value for the sale.  Nivens angle was to say either you renogitate or we’ll just stay out on tour and the albums will keep getting pushed back and booked the tour to prove it. This forced David Geffen to the table and the contract got renegotiated. So if that was the final straw pretty uncool to fire a manager for taking steps to secure you a whole heap more cash.

A couple of other key things Niven did that haven’t been mentioned :

* got the Jungle video produced by piggy backing off a Great white video shoot which was intrumental for GNR (imagine if that video never existed).

* I don’t know this for sure but would expect the same happened with the Ritz show (ie piggy backed off Great White)

* most importantly if Axl was a no show he made the rest of the band take the stage (eg Alice Cooper LA show) or had the band fire Axl. Again not so well know but Axl was fired a few times in the 86-88 period but they always bought him back. Why was this important ? Well it stopped Axl showing up late. If the first time he was late in the Illusion era the band just went on and walked off at their allotted time, there is no way Axl would have been late again (or at least late repeatedly)

 

Yeah, I can imagine Axl's firing was a halfhearted effort at best.  Probably like "ok, you're fired, now get your ass back here". I mean come on.  What were they going to do, threaten to replace him with Kip Winger?

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16 hours ago, RONIN said:

With Niven: AFD, Lies, Illusions, a hugely lucrative record contract, their first stadium tour with leg 1 of the Illusion tour. Essentially the greatest era of GnR.

With Goldstein: Izzy quits, The 1992 circus with Tracy, Roberta, and Teddy ZigZag, The Spaghetti Incident, Axl gaining control of the GnR name legally, the departure of Duff/Slash/Clink...basically the disintegration of the band.

yep, sad and true

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15 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

The notion that Axl was controlled under Niven and uncontrollable under Goldstein, is a bit imprecise. Axl was quite a problem to the band throughout both periods, but seems to have gradually become worse. The way I see it, there is no clear demarcation where he went from being a highly functional band member (not that he ever really was) to being a mess. It swung back and forth, but it seems the band of brothers mentality in the 80s and the fact that Axl hadn't become the de facto leader of the band, helped to control things. And possibly Niven's no-nonsense attitude. Axl simply couldn't get away with stuff the same way as he did in the 90s, or didn't even try. With the lineup disintegrating (Steven and Izzy gone), with Axl more estranged from his band mates and having his own entourage of followers, his ego and issues were more unchecked or in some ways stimulated. So Niven and Goldstein had somewhat different challenges at hand, although Axl always presented a problem to the managers of the band.

There is also not a fixed date when Goldstein replaced Niven; Goldstein was there throughput Niven's period (more or less), and they were both co-managers for a period, before Niven was sacked. I find it pure speculative to argue that Niven would have done better if he was in charge post-1991, or that Goldstein would have done worse if he was solely in charge pre-1991. It is just conjecture. It can all be explained by the dynamics of the band changing and by Axl's swinging mental issues.

In late 1989 and early 1991, when Axl really was off the hinges due to pressure with finishing the follow-up records, Niven didn't cut it. He simply wasn't able to manage Axl efficiently. As a Geffen representative said, "Axl's got everybody by the balls" and in the words of Clearmountain (who tried mixing the records), "[Axl] would threaten to quit every three weeks". Axl refused to finish his work on the records if Niven wasn't fired. So ultimately, the presence of Niven helped to delay the release of the 'Use Your Illusion' records. It was obvious that whatever Niven had to give was not good enough at the time. His managerial approach didn't cut it anymore...unfortunately, I guess.

In my opinion, what happened is mostly a result of a band disintegrating, addictions out of control and a frontman with serious mental issues, and there was little any manager could do to fix these issues. It seems, in Axl's case, it almost had to burn out before he reached a more mellow state of mind again with Team Brazil after having gone through plenty of managers again during the CD era. Arguing that Niven was the hero here and that Goldstein was the villain, or vice versa, is in my opinion giving way too much credit to both of them. I am sure they did what they could with the means at hand, with different strategies adapted to shifting circumstance, but in the end the tide couldn't be turned. And it if obviously now in hindsight that they are both flawed people.

Great post. I  agree with you that neither manager was ultimately effective in managing Axl (an unmanageable talent). You bring up the Illusion album delays as proof of Niven's ineffectiveness to manage Axl. Perhaps. It could also be argued that Niven firmly held his ground and would not cede control to Axl. He refused a policy of appeasement while yes-man Goldstein agreed to anything to keep his star happy at the expense of the band. So both failed to "manage" the redhead but one manager seems to have approached the situation much more sensibly than the other when looking back on the events that unfolded afterwards.

We disagree in so far as I think Niven would have handled the shifting circumstances of the band far differently than Goldstein. Niven would have fought tooth and nail to not let Izzy and Slash leave the band, even if it meant Axl would have to make concessions - something that I doubt DG did (as the presence of those two original members threatened his standing in the band and w/ Axl). Yes, neither Niven nor Goldstein can be characterized as all good or all bad, but I think it's disingenuous to claim that these two can be equated similarly when Niven's actions have resulted in numerous positive outcomes for the band compared to Goldstein. The band members themselves (sans Axl) value Niven as a manager far more than Goldstein. Doesn't that speak volumes of where they stand after the dust has cleared? As far as DG and Niv co-managing the band - Niven appears to have far more power in the band than DG from '87 to his firing in '91. I don't recall Duff/Slash's books elevating DG to Niven's status during the years they were apparently co-managing. Not saying that you aren't right about their band designations but it would seem that Niven was in charge of the higher level decisions and DG was handling the lower level duties.

I think Niven was far more shrewd in managing GnR as a brand  - aside from Azoff, I think he had the strongest business acumen of the lot of GnR's litany of useless managers. What sets Niven apart from DG for me is that DG managed Axl (as Duff himself put it) while Niven managed GnR. Niven is a kooky, opinionated nutbar who frequently saw himself as a 6th member of GnR. He had his drawbacks. But Goldstein behaved in a much more self-interested fashion that proved to hasten the band's demise - something that Niven may have delayed had he been allowed to manage GnR through the 90's. A lot of the intra-band drama was heightened by DG and I believe he deliberately tried to play one against the other and checkmate certain band members to ensure his contract would continue to get renewed. I don't think it's an accident that Izzy quit so soon after Niven was booted out. Nor do I think it was an accident that DG's contract was renewed in the mid-90's once Axl had gained legal control of the band name. Putting Niven and Goldstein on the same level is simply a false equivalency imho. Calling them both self-interested managers with their own agendas seems fair - though one acted far more in self-interest than the other, that much is also clear.

Edited by RONIN
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On 1/11/2019 at 8:11 PM, Euchre said:

If my understanding is correct having that tour booked was instrumental in GNR having their contract renegotiated with Geffen. Apparently David Geffen had never renegotiated a contract but was desperate for the Illusions to be out as he was trying to sell Geffen and wanted maximum value for the sale.  Nivens angle was to say either you renogitate or we’ll just stay out on tour and the albums will keep getting pushed back and booked the tour to prove it. This forced David Geffen to the table and the contract got renegotiated. So if that was the final straw pretty uncool to fire a manager for taking steps to secure you a whole heap more cash.

 

In a web posting on December 11, 2008, Axl claimed that he sought ownership of the band’s name as protection because their then manager, Alan Niven, “was always trying to convince someone they should fire me”.

He added: “As I had stopped speaking with him he sensed his days were numbered and was bending any ear he could along with attempting to sell our renegotiation [with record company Geffen] out for a personal pay day”.

In his first full length magazine interview printed in the next issue of Classic Rock, Alan Niven refutes Rose’s allegations and gives new insights into life behind the scenes with GN’R.

Of Axl’s claim that Niven tried to personally benefit from the Geffen renegtiation, the manager claims that, rather than being fuelled by greed he “paid millions to get Axl out of my life”.

Niven claims that he had “a 17% commission in perpetuity [ie that] anything released, mastered or negotiated during the term of my contract was commissionable forever… Axl fired me in ’91. Now that means that the sales of Appetite, Lies and Use Your Illusions were all commissionable. Forever. To get Axl out of my life I sold those rights back to the band for $3.5 million. I did not want to deal with him again. Now that’s a decent chunk of change, but Geffen had only paid royalties on about five million albums total at that time. Imagine how much I had still coming. [Appetite For Destruction alone has sold 30 million copies.] The settlement I took is not nearly anywhere close to what I was due and had earned.”

In fact, Niven claims that Axl waited until the manager had renegotiated the deal before firing him.

“As regards his remark about me getting a payday from Geffen from renegotiations – let’s get some more facts straight. I have a right to defend myself against this guy. “Firstly, both the managers of Aerosmith and Whitesnake tried to get renegotiations on existing contracts around this time and failed. I think I am the only person to leverage a re-negotiation out of David Geffen on an existing contract… Their royalty rates were increased by 30%. There were other refinements. Better advances, etc. But since when I was fired I sold my rights back to the band I did not benefit from this re-negotiation.”

“Furthermore, I had their merch deal redone, and their sub-publishing deal redone. They were due. …I also got the first major headline tour in place. Then I was fired. Nice.”

“As for his claim I was trying to get him fired because he wasn’t talking to me, that is an absurd invention. He didn’t talk to me after the incident in Phoenix in ’88 when his failure to show caused a riot. He didn’t talk to me when I refused to cancel the Aerosmith tour. I was banned from that tour for a month. Many was the time Axl would send me to Coventry.”

While Axl claims he sought rights to the name to protect his position in the band from Niven, the former manager suggests that he was fired so that Axl could wrestle control of GN’R: “What I find interesting is that after I was fired, by his own admission, Axl took the band name as part of the Geffen renegotiation. I believe he got rid of me to do that, amongst other things. I think that he always intended to take total control. And he knew I would not stand for such a move. I could be wrong, but I rather think there you have it.

“Axl always had a problem that I made it clear that I represented the interests of all five members of the band, not just and exclusively his.”

http://chinese-democracy.blogspot.com/2009/01/alan-niven-responds-to-axls-homework.html

Edited by RONIN

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In 1989 the band almost broke up (actually that is when it started breaking up) and Niven did nothing (or was unable to do anything), as Slash admitted in his autobiography.

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On 1/11/2019 at 2:19 PM, Blackstar said:

As for Niven, I think he helped the band in its first steps and contributed to it becoming big, but he didn't know how to handle Axl or didn't care. And if he was even 1/10 as nasty towards Axl as he comes across in his interviews over the years, I can kind of see why someone with Axl's mental problems and insecurity wouldn't want to continue working with him (and that's where Doug came into).

I think it's interesting that he's become so vitriolic towards Axl recently. He's given Axl accolades in the past but clearly dislikes him (hard to blame Niv imho) but this latest batch of interviews has me scratching my head wondering what the reasoning behind such an outburst is. It's uncharacteristically excessive - there's no reason to drag Axl so much if he's simply responding to Goldstein. It makes me wonder if Duff and Slash have cut Niven out of the loop at the (presumed) behest of Axl. Either way, his comments on Axl/DC seem to suggest a man who is losing his marbles.

Edited by RONIN
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10 minutes ago, RONIN said:

I think it's interesting that he's become so vitriolic towards Axl recently. He's given Axl accolades in the past but clearly dislikes him (hard to blame Niv imho) but this latest batch of interviews has me scratching my head wondering what the reasoning behind such an outburst is. It's uncharacteristically excessive - there's no reason to drag Axl so much if he's simply responding to Goldstein. It makes me wonder if Duff and Slash have cut Niven out of the loop at the (presumed) behest of Axl. Either way, his comments on Axl/DC seem to suggest a man who is losing his marbles.

Nice and respectful match of arguments for forum members @RONIN @Blackstar @SoulMonster,:popcorn:

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Guys, obviously the truth is in the fucking middle. Alan’s a fucking crazy intellectual bloke and Doug was emotionally over attatched as the manager 

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